Conception date vs. Birth date -- Both should be important (?)

Raindrops · #1 06-05-2008, 05:56 PM

Shouldn't the conception date be extremely important to an individual? That is the moment that his body started being made.

I know my conception date/time

.

Or maybe the moment that his parents had intercourse, is the MOMENT that the entire project began to construct the baby's body -- a very important chart.

It seems like there should be 2 'natal charts' for every individual: The moment their body began being constructed... and the moment they were introduced to the world and to their parents. But they were definitely alive before that moment... and they definitely had a persnality before being born.

Perhaps the Conception Chart would describe the baby's physical body more... and the Birth chart describes their influence in the world?

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmm....

Ekim86 · #2 06-05-2008, 06:35 PM

I read that the soul enters the body during the first breath outside the womb. I go by that. The sperm can take up to 12 hours to penetrate the egg. Fertilization. Therefore the conception time maybe incorrect. The conception date may be usefull in some respect, such as determining the childs sex. Most astrologers however stay away from this. But maybe we just need somebody to innovate a technique for this method.

Raindrops · #3 06-05-2008, 06:52 PM

Hmm... My mom said that she noticed each child's personality in the womb seemed to match their personality outside of the womb.

For example: My mom was ALWAYS being kicked by me when I was in her womb... she couldn't sleep at night. When I was born, I never stopped wiggling...

When she was pregnant with my sister, she thought she was dead. She didnt feel her throughout the entire pregnancy... and she was the same way after birth... always sleeping, never moving. She stays glued to the computer now... does not like sports... or moving in general, LOL.

It seems to me "making a baby" is just like "making a ship." The intercourse is the first moment the parents "shove off" to begin making the baby. The birth chart is the official announcement that the baby's here.

A boat has a date that construction begins on land, and an official date that it is shoved into the water where it belongs (some people break a bottle on its hull in celebration).

Hmmmmm... This is an interesting topic.

Raindrops · #4 06-05-2008, 07:31 PM

I have the conception date of my sister. I am reading her Conception chart as if its a natal chart or something... to see if any of the aspect interpretations sound familiar.

So far, the conception chart has Mars square pluto/saturn by 0 degrees. The interpretation for these aspects is all about: War, military career, violent death, courage,...

None of this was ever signified in her natal chart... But as a child, she had nightmares about dying in a warzone... -every single night-. She could also describe vivid battle scenes with such detail it frightened my family members. She also believes it is "one's duty to control themselves in the sight of danger like an officer."

The moment my mom became pregnant with her, she began having dreams of war: she said the explosions of guns were deafening, there were bodies, people being killed. She said the dreams were some of the worst she ever had in her life...

It was VERY opposite of the dreams she had when pregnant with me: Pastel flowers slowly floating downwards from heaven to soft pretty music in front of a baby blue sky

<--- That is very much my personality.

Ekim86 · #5 06-06-2008, 03:10 AM

This is an interesting topic.

I want to ask my mother what were her dreams like with me. Sort of put myself in her mind. Sounds very intuitive. I wonder if the mars placement may hint to the activity of the child within the womb. Hows mars looking in yours and your sister chart?

smilingsteph · #6 06-06-2008, 04:40 AM

It is too hard to calculate when and how a child was concieved. I dont think it applies, I think that the minute you were literally out of the womb is when your chart is applicable. You were not an individual as much as you were a part of your mother during pregnancy. It is when you came forth and became an individual on your own without support from your mothers body is when you are considered a being of your own.

astro.teacher · #7 06-06-2008, 05:11 AM

The age old question that has been asked by Astrologers for centuries. This debate is nothing new. Personally I find that both charts are very important in developing an understanding of the makeup of an individual. The time you take for the conception chart is the time of ejaculation. This is the beginning action and release of life to create another life that you take. A conception chart can tell a lot about an individual, it can even determine whether the fetus will live or die before it even takes its first breath. The Nativity chart is taken from the first breath. In the past the ancients believed the air was the bringer of life (God breathed air into the lungs of Adam and brought him to life). Therefore the Nativity is cast from that exact moment.

Raindrops · #8 06-06-2008, 01:14 PM

During some surgeries performed during pregancy, there is film footage of babies within the womb covering their eyes from the bright light and some who see and reach for the instruments. I think this could demonstrate a personality characteristic of curiosity ---compared to another baby who sees the instruments but doesn't have the curiosity to reach for them.

This is quite a complicated topic =P.

Raindrops · #9 06-06-2008, 01:24 PM

I found this info off a site which is about pregnancy research:

"There is far more to an individual than his or her physical body, and scientists now recognize that it is during fetal development that the personality also begins to be organized! This supports findings from the field of prenatal and perinatal psychology, that have long suggested that circumstances surrounding conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and the postpartum period have profound influences on lifelong emotional health and well-being. There are countless fascinating case histories in the literature to support the connection between experiences in utero and certain compulsions, repetitive behaviors, fears and fascinations in later life."

I think the Conception Chart has a strong influence about the pregnancy and the developing of the baby's body and certain areas of their personality. (?)

I think we are opening a can of worms, LOL.

taiyou · #10 06-06-2008, 02:50 PM

If I may add something, I have noticed a funny thing regarding my North Node and my mum's: mine is in Leo, which corresponds to mid-August -the month of my conception (I was born on 13 May) and my mum's is in Aquarius, which corresponds to late-January -the month of her conception (she was born on 31 October). But I haven't really noticed it in the chart of other persons I know so it's probably a coincidence (or some kind or karmic sign

)

Arian Maverick · #11 06-06-2008, 03:58 PM

Quote:

"There is far more to an individual than his or her physical body, and scientists now recognize that it is during fetal development that the personality also begins to be organized! This supports findings from the field of prenatal and perinatal psychology, that have long suggested that circumstances surrounding conception, pregnancy, labor, birth and the postpartum period have profound influences on lifelong emotional health and well-being. There are countless fascinating case histories in the literature to support the connection between experiences in utero and certain compulsions, repetitive behaviors, fears and fascinations in later life."

Although it is much less scientific than your source, I have read channelings that have similarly suggested that circumstances and events that occur during a mother's pregnancy affect the developing fetus, and I imagine that this is primarily due to chemicals that flood the body during times of extreme emotional, psychological, or physical stress. I have heard people urge pregnant women not to become too upset over some trivial matter because it "would hurt the baby," but I've always thought this was a bit of a wive's tale, enforcing a common belief that pregnant women are fragile. Of course, I don't believe that small upsets will hurt the health of the developing fetus or have any detrimental effects upon his or her emotional development, yet I have personally wondered if my brother's autism diagnosis during my mother's pregnancy with me affected me subconsciously.

Unfortunately, this is quite difficult to verify, but I do believe there ought to be "hints" in the conception chart of what is to come--i.e. suggestions of the characteristics that will be indicated by the child's natal chart. Of course, this is the main chart that should be considered in terms of personality because as steph has noted, this is the point in which the child becomes separated from his mother, an individual in his own right. Yet the conception chart may indicate the circumstances surrounding the pregnancy--perhaps if the pregnancy will be relatively easy or difficult, or even if it will end prematurely.

Arian Maverick

Raindrops · #12 06-06-2008, 04:52 PM

Arian-- Actually, to a certain extent, the advice is true about not letting pregnant women get -too- upset, according to other research I've read.

There was a sonogram posted on the internet depicting how the mother's emotions affected the fetus. Everytime a researcher broke a vase (or something), the mother's adrenaline was released and the fetus jumped. The bigger the objects thrown, the more the mom's body released sudden spurts of adrenaline...and the more the fetus reacted.

I believe I read that the more adrenaline pumping through a mother's body during pregnancy helped the offspring to build much more muscle mass at the expense of a smaller brain. It explained that this was to help the offspring be best suited to its environment --- lots of muscles to run from prey and to survive in the stressful environment.

In a medical study, I found this study:

A study with rats found that the more stressful the conditions of the pregnancy, the more muscle mass the baby rats were born with... with much smaller brains. I looked at the photos from the study and everyone in my apartment came over to gawk at them. The stressed out rat's babies had at least 25% more muscle mass than the stress-free rats. The stress-free rats had quite larger brains. This study is quoted quite often in the medical field... if I can find the study again, I'll post it.

Raindrops · #13 06-06-2008, 06:00 PM

This is a very informative website about fetal developement and stress causing the brain to be reduced and the muscle mass to be increased:'

http://eclkc.ohs.acf.hhs.gov/hslc/ec...a1_081705.html

I think that studying the conception chart to learn more about an individual would be like looking at the synastry AND the composite chart to learn more about a relationship. Both charts are valid.

Arian Maverick · #14 06-06-2008, 09:44 PM

Thank you for posting this fascinating research, Raindrops.

An idea just occured to me, an idea that I believe is similar in a way to progressed charts: what if our entire lives could be symbolized by the nine-month period during which we were conceived and developed in our mother's womb? I'm not sure exactly how this would be done, but I think it is interesting, nevertheless.

Arian Maverick

Raindrops · #15 06-06-2008, 10:30 PM

That reminds me of my grandmother's belief (she's big into astrology) that - after birth - each day in a baby's life symbolizes 1 year of its life. She regarded the first 100 days as very important--- and, if I remember correctly, she believed in surrounding the baby with symbolic objects on certain days that would correspond with certain years. For example: On the 18th day after birth, you take them to a very respected library...to represent a nice education/university.

I think this concept is very interesting because, in astrology, we progress the sun 1 degree (which represents a day) to see 1 year ahead in the baby's life.

The nine months of pregnancy idea corresponding to th years of life DOES sound interesting too. Lots of interesting ideas here...

Arian Maverick · #16 06-06-2008, 10:35 PM

I remember reading something from Edgar Cayce several months ago that stated that the time of birth was more important than the time of conception; I'll have to find the exact quote for you.

Arian Maverick

jamiescott · #17 10-02-2008, 03:10 PM

I think conception charts are important too. Though living it out I found to be intense. I would not do it if you had a stable family life and wanted to keep it that way. Somewhere in the Dead Sea Scrolls is a description of how they calculated it back then. Pretty simply: Take the Natal Sun and subtract 270 degrees. There is your conception date.

In the last 30 years or so, 2 astrologers independantly came up with a method for narrowing the time down a bit better. I don't know their names or the name sof the books that I read it in. Maybe someone out there has heard of this?

So go back the 270 degrees. Next step is to look at the AC and the Moon in the Natal Chart. Now with the conception chart, go forward till the conception Moon lines up with either the Natal Moon or AC. Do the same thing going backwards. Now, in one of these charts, the conction AC should line up with the natal Moon or AC. This is the correct conception time.

Something spiritual must happen when two set of chromosomes unite for the first time. Using the method above, there is always common link between natal and conception charts, as there should be. They should tell two parts of one story.

Like I said though. It is very heavy to look at a new chart of yourself, having thought you had a grasp on your natal chart. I explored my conception chart and then lived it out for a few months, studying the transits to it. I don't think I could do it again. But it sure got me thinking.