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  #1  
Unread 07-01-2006, 06:51 AM
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Exclamation Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

*lifts up jaw from the floor*

So...Yea! I have Mars Square Pluto in my chart in fixed signs (leo and scorpio) with a very tight aspect. This is ..um quite unexpected!! But perhaps with someone's help I can better understand what in the world it's supposed to mean. I mean...I get what it means...just, what does it mean to me? Will I just go crazy one day and turn into a roaring beast?...with the help of appropriate transiting mars apsects, of course =] Really, I don't see it happening. And...well it feels like the Canopus interpretation below (and the things I've read online about it) don't apply to me at all. I feel foreign just reading it. Help, please =o)



Square Mars-Pluto, orb = 00°01'
Watch out! As the orb is only 00°01', this aspect is extremely tight.
This makes this aspect super-powerful - one of the most powerful of all
aspects in the chart.
Key Words: irresistible fire, no limits, volcanic emotions.
*Archetypal movement:
The planet of outgoing fire, meeting the planet of transcended fire.
Exponential reinforcement of the fire through the encounter of the
two principles.
Instead of simply rushing out, as with Mars, the fire is first
concentrated inside through the internalising power of Pluto; it
builds up to the point where it explodes out in overwhelming
tempests.
Mars-Pluto soul forces and characters:

*Volcanic emotions, powerhouse of feelings - the Dragon
Mars is the planet of violent emotions and venom, Pluto that of
pushing things to the limit and transcending.
On the lower mode, it can lead to inner rage, fury, and irresistible
passions - not unlike the lava of a volcano.
On the higher mode, it is the real power of love -(not just loving
custard) which can move mountains; the Cosmic Fire that nothing can
resist.
*The warrior that knows no limits:
The planet of strength, libido and violence meeting that of no
limits.
Will, capital W.
Tons of energy, relentless, unstoppable.
Once set in a direction, it is indivertible ('Terminator' style).
Can be exceptionally solid physically.
Think of Muhhamed Ali (Mars square Pluto), and of Bruce Lee
(interestingly called 'the dragon') whose chart also shows a square
- a T-square with Mars-Venus-Moon conjunct on one side,
Jupiter-Saturn conjunct on the other side, and Pluto on the edge.
On a different note: Saddam Hussein (trine).
*Sex
Nuclear bomb kind of libido.
Devastating sex.
At least a few violent fantasies. At most, no limits!
Sometimes also devastated by sex.
*Exceptional occult/astral power
Born exorcist. The astral intensity associated with the Mars-Pluto
combination gives a natural domination over entities, and the fire
and power needed to fight dark forces.
*The edge between the highest purity and the dark side:
Has the power to fight dark forces, but also has the power to become
one.
(Darth Vador, surely, had a major Mars-Pluto aspect.)
*Eclipsed Mars - the wimp
Pluto has the power to hide the values of a planet. In some cases, a
major Mars-Pluto aspect will take a very different feel from what we
have described so far. The values of Mars are eclipsed, and the
person faces loads of issues related to lack of self-confidence,
lack of stamina, lack of punch. The Mars force behaves as a missing
bit. Major self-exploration work is needed before the person can
achieve anything in life, with particular satisfaction.
*If your partner has a major Mars-Pluto aspect:
Had you realised how dangerous your partner can be?
If your own Pluto is strong, all this will feel like familiar ground
- exciting.
If you haven't, perhaps think about taking out good insurance.

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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 07-01-2006, 02:50 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Hello Dain,
I wrote this in a third person format. I am fighting my own Mercury opposition Ascendant which is "an inclination to ALWAYS tell people only what they want to hear" Mars squared Pluto gives the native a strong forceful nature... too strong at times. They are prone to be very aggressive in "pursuing" their desires. The native needs to find out what they want in life and this aspect can help ensure they achieve their aims. He should be very careful about trying to impose his will upon others, the native will sooner or later run into people who can out do him in this area. However, the native is prone to that behaviour. Be deliberate and patient in your domestic life (personal, career, everday life) for the native is prone to violence and to be a victim of retailiated violence in this area due to temperament. Whenever the native is dealing with stressful and unpleasant "elements" in his environment he should not approach the task of dealing with them from an emotional point of veiw, (take a step back and analyze the situation), but a rational, realistic point of view for they can be prone to react violently. Be open to seek someone else's opinion in dealing with them. Then report the problem to a proper authority. He may have to concentrate on "being an aggreeable person" and be loving to people. Be as aggressive in your support FOR a "cause" as you can be AGAINST a cause. Repeating the positive side, this aspect can give the native a drive to succeed in area(s) that they desire. Whether those areas are beneficial or detrimental is the free will of the native.
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Unread 07-05-2006, 02:48 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Hey there, I never thanked you for your reply, so I'm taking the time to do it now. Sorry about that. Well, I still am somewhat oblivious to what it all means or just to the aspect in general since I still can't really relate to its description. One thing that stuck out to me, though, <i>was</i> the analyzing situations emotionally first, and also the imposing of my will on others. Not really my will, though, more like my opinions (astrology and how i think it works), but still it's pretty much the same thing.


I got this interp. from http://thefutureminders.com
"You are intensely self-willed and can be
compulsively driven, controlling and domineering, whether you
realize and admit it or not. You tend to overpower people,
or engage in relationships where fierce struggles over power,
competition, and personal ambition are the primary themes.
Relationships with men in particular are apt to be loaded with
these dynamics."

I also remember reading that exact phrase "Be as aggressive in your support FOR a "cause" as you can be AGAINST a cause" in regards to this aspect before, and I think it is very helpful...b/c it'll make me as passionate about what i hate as about what i like, and this passion can inspire others, instead of becoming defensive or being scared of aggressive imposing of my will and opinions.

I kind of would just not look at any interpretations for this aspect at all before b/c I'd only associate it with murdering people and being aggressive all the time. With a closer look, though, I found that it doesn't take an overly aggresive, rash, or impulsive individual to fit with the description of this aspect. It doesn't necessarily have to do with it. Thanks for your time! and i'll def be looking further into this as this is such a tight aspect in my chart.

Heh, one thing I'll always remember, though, is the last line of Canopus' interpretation:

"If your partner has a major Mars-Pluto aspect:
Had you realised how dangerous your partner can be?"

Ha.
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 07-05-2006, 06:02 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Hello..

Just thought I'd add something to this *Mars-Pluto chat!!

I have Mars conjnuct Pluto(sd) in Virgo(Mars seperating by 7 minutes, guess that qualifies for a conjunction) along with Uranus in Virgo, 3 deg away in my 5th house.. All opp Saturn(Chiron) in Pisces(11th house) anyway I have often wondered about this aspect since it is so close.. Yes I too was 'frightened' by 'an astrologer' about this aspect.. of course what houses these planets rule & live in make a fair bit of difference.. as well as aspects to the overall chart...

Anyway I have found that my life experience has been interesting.. this great 'generational standoff'.. being squared by Venus/jupiter/Nth Node in Gemini(2nd house).. so I obviously thought Pluto wasn't enough I had to throw in an exact square to *my Moon's Nodes(absolutely exact) Oh dear! Me with Taurus Sun(2nd conj Jup) trine Cap Moon(9th).. 'I just want a simple life.. doing what everyone else does?' Anyway it hasn't quite worked out that way.. since *Pluto in Scorpio(8th) opposed my natal Sun a few years ago.. around the time of *'Saturns return'.. talk about world upside down & inside out etc.. I was recently married at thte time(1 year) when my(our)son died(Uranus exact square my Asc) of 'cot death'(4 months).. also that was the end of my marriage soon after(5-6 months later, Uranus conj Moon).. however I do have a 29 deg+ late Aries Asc(also wide conj *Mercury in Taurus, 1st,trine Mars/Pluto/Uranus) squaring my natal Cap Moon.. 'a need for independence/adventure!' mmm.. so here I am enjoying being on my own.. 11 years later!!!

So what have I learned from all this & my journey into 'my-Self' over the last years.. well I learned that my lust for sex isn't a good basis for relationship.. although the sexual attraction is helpful.. so what lies in 'the Underworld'(Pluto).. the unconscious dimension of my-'Self'.. what are my 'real strengths'.. what is 'power' anyway.. I was aware of my attraction to a variety of women.. yet I didn't act on it while I was married.. but I did fantasise a lot.. *Neptune in Scorpio(7th) So was this a form of cheating?/projection.. We did have a young(attractive) university student boarding with 'us' for a little while.. anyway I guess I was young & naive back then.. 'big time'!!! Anyway I do remember in high school how I was challenged by the school tough guy.. but I didn't show up for our after school fight.. I went missing!! Confrontation wasn't really one of my strong points.. except for my younger brother(Aries) who I belted into once.. but it wasn't a habit.. I was also 'the protector'(eldest child) of my baby sister(Leo) from her 2 rough older brothers.. mainly my Aries brother...

OK.. *Mars-Pluto(Uranus)5th.. transformation through '(sudden)death of child'(5th house).. I failed to revive him.. I was the only one who was 'the calm in the storm'(Cap Moon).. So here I am having done a lot of *group process work(*'Insight Seminars'- *'Opening the Heart').. including getting the emotions all out there.. experiencing my own deep grief.. & that of others.. yes one of the facilitators(therapists) said.. 'You're just so honest'!!! 'You're so straightforward' at times.. this during a month long 'intensive' program(with 30 others) Well I wasn't always like this.. ie. not delving into the serious stuff of life anyway.. Though I did question my parents when I was very young when they told me that 'death' was the end of life.. I asked this question when someone died.. & I just didn't believe it! It just didn't add up to me!! Here I was all of 6 or 7 years old! challenging the grownups!! aLSO WHEN VERY YOUNG i REMEMBER BEING PETRIFIED OF THE DARK.. i would TUCK MYSELF DEEP UNDER THE COVERS AT NIGHT TO PROTECT MYSELF FROM THE SPIRITS THAT i KNEW WERE REALLY THERE!! Yet all this seems a distant memory to me now.. I don't feel that I'm pyschic or anything now! It was more about FEAR of the unknown 'I think'.. I also survived a head-on(*Aries Asc.. trined by Uranus, Mars opp my Mars-Pluto) car accident in 1988.. head injuries etc...

Also over the last few years I have been involved with a 12 step program 'Grow'.. I have read numerous books(Venus/Jup in Gemini).. Richard Bach's.. *'Jonathon Livingston Seagull' & *'Illusions'..*'Running From Safety' etc.. Paulo Coelho's.. *'The Alchemist'.. *'Veronica Decides to Die' etc.. as well as all of *Liz Greene's books.. amoung others etc etc.. also I have mucked around with playing the guitar.. drawing sketches.. abstract & real.. photography.. film.. including my own *'dark room'.. trying to make my own sounds instead of playing other people's stuff.. I hate practice.. more attuned to improvising.. that's were my real joy is.. 'experiencing' a new *'creation or discovery'.. but I get easlily bored too.. so I also listen to ABC radio incessently.. real life stories.. people of power.. scientists.. professors.. writers.. artists.. philosophers.. journalists etc.. discovering 'the world of art'.. symbolism & mythology.. also I'm finding out about *'the darker side' of life.. delving into *the 'taboos'(also Sag Sth Node-8th house) etc.. ie. finding out about(not so much trying them out).. Also I found myself absolutely taken by surpirse to discover these feelings of deep rage emerging a few years ago.. I was dumbfounded & shocked.. at deep feelings of rage at my father.. or 'others'.. over a seemingly normal dissagreement.. ie. 'challenging my beliefs'.. I think this was around the time *Pluto in Sag squared my natal Saturn.. while Chiron in Cap also moved to trine my natal Pluto(Mars).. 'a time of healing'...

So here I am now in 'my mid-life phase' with Uranus in Pisces.. opposing my natal Mars-Pluto(Uranus).. & Neptune square Neptune.. so I wonder what's next!!!

One more brief note.. my *prog Mars has moved away from natal Pluto.. as it does.. trining my natal Sun & prog Asc.. so it seems I was set free in some way.. travelling around the world for the first time.. on my own... (see 'astrocartography' thread)

Last edited by Solastro; 07-06-2006 at 07:45 AM.
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Unread 07-05-2006, 06:14 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Hey Dain,
Your welcome for the thank you. Its not mine, but the wording is. So, I may not have got it across well enough. To put things to bare bones, this aspect gives a strong forceful nature that can lead to arguements and clashing of wills that could get you killed. (some are in more danger than others by nature. It may have something to do with their auras and birth charts) So think before acting. Your sexual nature is intense in which that behavior can get ya killed too if misused. Taming and cultivating your forcerful nature is key with this aspect. Having a drive to accomplish is always a plus. Robert Pelletier and Para Research is my favorite man and institute for Aspect translations. I bought my first personal Natal Horoscope from them in the mid 1980's and they read my life like a book in some cases to my sorrow. One of his books "Planets in Aspect" have the same readings and is very helpful. I know what you mean about partners sharing Aspects, my wife and I share Sun square Neptune, which can point to addictions. She has her alcohol and I a (teetotaler) have my ecapist fantasy lands and dreamworlds which I write stories or poems about. But in the end we both escape too much. I solve more of my everday problems and questions in my average six hour nightly sleep than I ever do while I am awake. As far as imposing your will I 'd say as long as your not putting a gun to anybody's head in order to make them accept it, or terrorizing them in any other way, your not forcing your will on anyone. But again some people will buckle if you give them bad glare.
Take Care.
Franklin
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Your Natal Chart is a fated foundation in which, by and large, the house (called your life) you build upon it is strictly up to you. Fate and freewill. Do the best with what you have been given. "That which we do not confront in ourselves we will meet as fate"...Carl Jung
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Unread 07-05-2006, 12:18 PM
Manic_Monday Manic_Monday is offline
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

I looked it up on astrology-numerology.com (great site - all planets in houses, planets in signs and aspects are explained).
This is what they say:

The square formed between Mars and Pluto produces a forceful nature. Often your actions can be described only as reckless. Yet you are cautious and secretive about your projects, especially as you mature and develop. When frustrated, you may become abusive and display much temper. This aspect suggests that your sexual drive is strong, and may not be well controlled at times. This is a very physical aspect needing control and channeling. When you can control actions, this aspect can be positive as it shows a penchant for eliminating, by force, the unacceptable and unnecessary in your life. You can develop a very focused concentration on progressive issues.
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Unread 07-06-2006, 04:26 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Franklin,

Here's why your description of mars-square-pluto sounded so familiar.. =)

"Mars Square Pluto

The square of Mars to Pluto provides you with a very forceful nature. You are inclined to be extremely straight forward in pursuing your desires, and your behavior is often rather reckless.

You must learn to curb your temper under stress, or you will bring yourself more grief than any temporary satisfaction would warrant. Once you learn this, you will find that you can accomplish what you wish because of your courage, determination, persistence, and self-driving ambition.

You have a highly developed but unrefined sexual drive. The sexual drive is significant, to be sure, but you need to assess its value in relation to your total life direction. Make sure it is balanced by other areas in your relationships with people.

When you are unhappy with disagreeable elements in your environment, examine these elements realistically, not emotionally.

A final word; try to be for a cause with the same enthusiasm you show when you are against something. Love works wonders in getting people to work voluntarily with you.


Interpretation by Robert Pelletier "

...from http://astro.com


=)Thanks again.
Mabel
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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 07-06-2006, 05:01 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Hello people..

According to Bill Teirney's book on 'Aspects'.. a square is of the nature of Aires & Cancer.. or Aries & Capricorn.. depending on if applying or seperating.. wheres conjunction is of the nature of Aries itself.. which is what I have.. *Mars conj Pluto.. though seperating.. which Jeff Wolf-Green suggests in his famous Pluto book.. that the hard work has been mostly done.. so the energy is now ready to release itself.. ie. 'the seperation'.. still I feel there's more to go yet.. as still a close aspect(see prev thread entry.. I mean 'book').. except for progression of course...

More food for thought ..

Cheers all..

Last edited by Solastro; 07-06-2006 at 10:42 AM.
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Unread 07-06-2006, 06:40 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

hey Dain,
Astro.com version is abbreviated which means its shorten. Yeah he is a main source. I gave the 20 bucks for the the book to get the whole interpetations. "Planets in Aspect" is the book and an extremely good one in my opinion as I told you in that previous e-mail. Nothing much is original in astrology, all is debatable if one chooses to make it so. It is just like many subjects (subjects worth discussing) everyone has a personal translation/opinion. Astrologers from different areas around any given region in older days would get together and discuss astrological questions Then they would come to some "general concensus" on what any given Aspect truly meant, or what was most observable in a native with (ie. Mars in the ninth house) and what it meant to the native with that placement. It is the oldest studied subject on earth. When the great empires of Egypt, Rome, Greece, Babylon,Assryia, Chaldea among some to mention had libraries of info on astrology. Many were lost but many were saved. They have found references to man observing the heavens for meaning of affairs on earth in caveman art. People still get together, I was suppose to go to the American Federation of Astrologers meeting in Loiusville, Kentucky but I could not make it this year. We are having a meeting of sorts everytime we log on to this wonderful community right here. But, we are still standing on the shoulders of a great mass of astrologers that have come and gone.
Looking at charts and studying their elements and comprehending the meanings that have already been seen and comprehended by our predacessors is the best we can hope for. The saying "There is nothing new under the Sun" is continually proven. Just new twists on old ideas. One can modernize an old idea, but it still seldoms detracts from the basic laws or truths about the old idea.
Take Care.
Franklin
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Unread 07-06-2006, 10:39 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

My two cents worth in my study of a whole 2 people with this particular aspect. Neither of them come across as particularly forceful or trying to impose their will. Then again, I've got Pluto partile Asc (3 minutes) so maybe I'm just immune to them trying.

What I find fascinating is the fact that both these people told me that they have strange (their description) tastes in the bedroom (I have no idea why - these comments just popped out in the middle of a totally unrelated conversation). Vanilla just didn't work for them. One was considering divorcing her very Cancarian husband because he refuses to dominate her in the bedroom.

Now I know that a whole two people isn't statistically significant in any way, but I'm wondering whether the sexuality of Mars isn't being drawn into the darker more Scorpionic realms of Pluto through this square aspect? In sort of main stream society, both these natives would be seen as deviant in their preferences. Something to think about ...
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Unread 07-06-2006, 11:05 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Hmm..well I dunno much about my sexual perferences in the bed..lol since I'm only....ahh!! 17! just turned 17 today =)

But I am pretty attracted to offbeat subjects and offbeat people so it could very well be a possibility! I do think that the energy and impulsiveness/motivation would be buried in both the physical and mental sense. Probably, I'm passive aggressive b/c of the burial of anger in the physical sense, and also my mars drive in leo in the 10th would be motivated towards the depths of things, including the depths of myself. This is a recurring theme in my chart...it's also pointed at in this apsect as well:

"Sextile Mars-Black Moon, orb = 05°12'
Key Words: the Mars stamina pulled towards the inner universe.
The Black Moon, with its metaphysical depth and its intimate
relationship to the deepest of the human psyche, can significantly
modify the significance of Mars in a chart. It adds an occult
dimension to it. It makes the native more likely to use his/her Mars
energy to work on himself/herself and explore inner worlds rather
than only being concerned with external things and the material
world. It can give a strong need to follow a spiritual path and
explore the hidden mysteries of existence rather than just being
engaged in materialistic pursuits."

So, basically, it's not a new thing.
I'm glad these two people (lol) don't appear to be especially impulsive and rash...not unsociable and determined to impose their will on everyone around them. Thanks for the two cents ;-) I shall add them to the piggy bank
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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 02-17-2007, 05:41 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

i am a young female...20's...and i have always had violant dreams/daydreams/ when it comes to sexual things..i never knew why this always happened, and it wasnt until i started becoming interested in astrology and looking at my natal chart that i found the source of this: i have a tight mars square pluto as well. when it comes to sexual feelings towards someone, i often find myself having the attitude of being veryyy aggressive, combative, vengeful, angry, and yes..even hateful...even when i really do love and care for this person. i always tried to suppress these feelings/dreams/attitudes because i didnt understand them.. my one word of advice: dont try to suppress them, as this energy will only rear its ugly head up one way or another...usually, this aggressiveness will be taken out by yourself on yourself. in my opinion..mars square pluto has to be expressed in one way or another, atleast for me.. i have learned that doing some sort of combative sport, say kickboxing, helps CURB these things...but ultimately, i dont think these energies will ever go away....any other advice would definitely be helpful.
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Unread 06-10-2007, 04:37 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Caligirl,

maybe you could turn this anger and aggression into ambition...an ambition which would translate into hard work.. Days and nights of hard work to finally accomplish a goal. I think when you finally reach that goal a lot of the frustration would dissolve because you already got frustrated enough trying to reach it and worrying about it. and then if you still feel angry i guess you could just try to keep accomplishing more...try to invest in a long-yearned-for dream of yours or just tryy ..studying lol..or piano lessons, anything lol. Anything that'll make you work hard to defeat all obstacles in ur way (not in a physical way, though...don't give in to the anger..I think indulging in it kind of just gives urself a thumbs-up for allowing yourself to indulge in it again later, and all of a sudden you'll find it completely ok to do it..) and that'll leave you satisfied that you got what you wanted in the end. I think that's the kind of thing that would work for me. On the other hand, I'm thinking about it now, and since it's sexual anger and agression, I guess the only way would be to unleash the anger in a physical way (sports and w/e..not in a mental way, such as plodding along aggressively day n night to reach a goal).

Wait a minute, though, have you tried meditation? Maybe the answer isn't in giving in to the aggression, but letting it cool over by feeding it nice, calm and serene thoughts haha. Great. I think that might be what I would do. Just meditate . Woo! Lol.
Kay, well I told you what I would do.. hope it helped. Bye bye for now/

-Mabel
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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 06-10-2007, 05:58 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

I just wanted to say also that after learning more about myself in the past year.. (I will soon be turning 18..in july) I've realized thanks to the help of my psychology teacher, that I am THE biggest control freak, in fact she said herself that I was the biggest control freak she'd ever met in her life, in fact I am so MUCH of a control freak that I'd rather stay in my house on the computer, neglecting all of my most prized ambitions, b/c I get so upset and disillusioned when I walk out into the world and see that I'm not the center of the universe and that I can't so easily be in control =(
..LOL. HAHA
Well, serisously, noo kidding here, this is totally true. And to add to this, all the descriptions for the *Mars sq pluto aspect you have ever heard probably will apply to me because that is the main theme in my life...being scared of coming off as too aggressive ..or bitchy or couldn't-care-less about you...I would never want to comepletely disregard somebody's will..or even just completely disregard <i>them</i>. Yet, deep inside I am really rash and extremely demanding and very very willfull. I know have a really strong willpower on the inside ...I can see the weaknesses in anybody and if I wanted to I know I could look them in the eye and exert my will over them right while they were trying to exert theirs on me. But most of the time I haven't stepped into that outfit...and when I'm not concentrating on it it's a little hard to put it on. Before I wasn't even aware I was really like this at all..so imagine how hard it would've been to tap into it then. But now that I see that I just hide it to be able to manipulate ppl b/c I'm scared of how they'd react if they saw how willful and not so perfectly sweet and accepting I am on the inside they would totally hate me. Basically. lol. But now that I am totally aware of this fact about me, I try to show the way I really am most of the time. Any time I fall into "look at me, I'm a helpless innocent little girl, I need somebody to mother me" mode, I try to snap out of it asap. w00t w00t hell yea. I'm ready to show the world the real me
It was awesome, though, I saw myself on video recently while I was NOT in the "helpless little girl" mode and I looked so confident and sure of myself and whatnots..totally notttt over-bearing or too aggressive or anything like that. It looked completely normal and I was so shocked :O haha b/c when I was consciously making myself act that way (the way I really am on the inside) I felt like I was being so noticeably assertive and pompous and just anything you could imagine to let everyone around you "I think I'm all-that, and I'm one stuck up little miss priss who thinks she's miss popularity..." and it didn't look that way at alll. It looked so perfectly normal...and I realized.. I looked like myself! I didn't look like that little girl I didn't know before when i saw myself in picutres or on video before.....COOLNESS.....and an extra gimongous sidedish of it please. I was feelin' it, and I won't forget who I really am ever again after that day.


So it turns out the last part of my initial message on this thread, which read:

Quote:
*Eclipsed Mars - the wimp
Pluto has the power to hide the values of a planet. In some cases, a
major Mars-Pluto aspect will take a very different feel from what we
have described so far. The values of Mars are eclipsed, and the
person faces loads of issues related to lack of self-confidence,
lack of stamina, lack of punch. The Mars force behaves as a missing
bit. Major self-exploration work is needed before the person can
achieve anything in life, with particular satisfaction.
*If your partner has a major Mars-Pluto aspect:
Had you realised how dangerous your partner can be?
If your own Pluto is strong, all this will feel like familiar ground
- exciting.
If you haven't, perhaps think about taking out good insurance.
was exactly [true for me] what was happening with me and the rest of what was on that original mars sq pluto description was the way I really and totally am. It's not being evil or anything [as i have to remind myself from time to time that it's not..] ..it's just pretty cool to know that I can be a "really bad person to mess with" whenever I feel like being one

p.s. I am known to blow up on my sister whenever she irritates me..but I can actually control that explosion...It's a meditated "ok, now's enough, i'm going to explode ..now" kind of aggression. And btw I do have a totally explosive libido [in a passionate, sexy way]...especially with my venus conjunction mars [i also have venus sq pluto as u can see] and I'm just really affectionate and aggressive with it....but not in an angry, vengeful way at all..just really aggressive lol. I dunno if this is getting a little too carried away, but just to give you an example.. I see most **** videos and think "oh please..they could've done so much better with that..put more love into it. It needs more passion." Like that. Lol. HAHA.

K. So. I thought it would be very appropriate to end with this quote. Love to all.

"Our deepest fear is not that we are inadequate. Our deepest fear is that we are powerful beyond measure. It is our light, not our dark that most frightens us. Your playing small does not serve the world. There is nothing enlightened about shrinking so that other people don't feel insecure around you. We are all meant to shine as children do. Its not just in some of us; it's in everyone. And as we let our own lights shine, we unconsiously give other people the right to do the same. As we are liberated from our own fear, our presence automatically liberates others."
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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 06-10-2007, 10:49 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

I think there must be some tendancy to violence that is buried by this aspect. I have the aspect and close too, but I am more likely to avoid violence and am indeed (quite) a bit of a wimp.

Actually this aspect is tied to a whole host of strange counteracting aspects on my chart. I have Saturn in opposition to the Mars (and square to the Pluto). And the Saturn-Mars aspect forms the backbone of a Yod-kite with the Sun and Neptune. So it's a kind of interconnected mess, which means that the Saturn-Mars opposition is the strongest aspect in the chart eventhough it is not the closest. And this means I have enormously fluctuating energy and concentration levels and a lack of ambition coupled with enormous ambition (?), all of which is really not good for me in my work or career.

I am interested to see what might become of this supposed domineering aspect to the Mars-Pluto square since I resently left a long-term relationship in which I had little power, through either love or respect, and am in a new relationship in which these things hopefully are not an issue.

Not sure if I'm adding anything useful to the discussion. But apparently there is a mini-community of Mars-Pluto people.
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Unread 06-11-2007, 07:01 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Zenmasterfu,

It's funny how you point out this 'whole mess' in ur chart when most people have a 'whole mess', too :P
Unless your chart is all trines and sextiles, most ppl have a 'whole mess' of some sort Lol. I think that's what makes us human beings..each of us having a mess of some sort to deal with. Lol, but anyway, enough philosophizing, I just thought it helped -->me<-- a lot to realize that though we each hide it as much as possible, a lot of us(if not most) have more than a few personality problems to tackle with. I think the most important thing is to take as many risks as possible, so that we can absorb as much as possible from any situation. Also the easier we are on ourselves about a certain thing, the more likely we are to succeed at it. It's pretty cool how that works. I try to take one major risk as I go everyday, especially since my biggest challenge is needing for everything to be perfect in the impression ppl will have of me (pluto in 1st house... moon, mars, venus in Leo, Saturn in 3rd, mars sq [pluto], which is sq venus, and I think moon in leo in 11th (house cusp-virgo) and ambition for public spotlight b/c of leo planets-- mars & venus in 10th house don't help too much either). OH yeah, And I also have Sun opp Saturn AND opp Neptune, with Saturn Conjunct Neptune.

Oh and about the power struggle stuff via relationships, that's very true with me, I have it with all my friends. I like to have the final word in everything. I think Numerology also has a lot to do with this stuff b/c 'it just so happens' that I have an 8 Expression and a 1 Intimate Number. An 8 Expression is kind of domineering, very ambitious for power and recognition. Doesn't like compromise and can be a little hard on those close to them, The 1 Intimate Number needs autonomy, independence of choice & activity, doesn't like to be managed or influenced looks for originality and sometimes conquest, has a great need for undertaking things. I often feel threatened in my independence, I hate feeling like I depend on someone else (and I have a 2 challenge number! Sacrificing almost all of your needs for everyone else to the point you have no sense of individuality and not to mention that your self-esteem goes completely caput) so this is where most of my power-struggle problems come from. A lot fo the time, though, it has to do with worrying about wether I'm loved enough or not..."You didn't call me, so that must mean you don't love me as much as you should..being my friend and all." That sounds very pluto-ish to me! Needing to be in control b/c losing control would mean that people would have a chance to show you how they really feel about you, and the truth would be revealed. I don't know if I'm on the right track here, I might be completely off about Pluto and need for control, but that's the idea I've gotten from my Pluto in the 1st.

Zenmasterfu, by
Quote:
And this means I have enormously fluctuating energy and concentration levels and a lack of ambition coupled with enormous ambition (?), all of which is really not good for me in my work or career.
Could you have meant that you have a lack of ambition b/c of ur frustration with setting unreachable goals for yourself as a result setting urself up for failure? Anyways, that's what astrology-numerology described would be the most likely challenge with a Saturn-Mars Opp. Here's what I found..

Quote:
Mars and Saturn are in opposition in your chart. This placement suggests some conflict between your desires and your sense of responsibility. There is conflict between a need for impulsive action, Mars behavior, and the conservative apprehension associated with Saturn. There is a sense of being rejected associated with this aspect. You establish goals out of realistic reach, and then suffer feelings of futility when you can't achieve them. You may over evaluate the accomplishments of others, and undervalue yours. Like yourself a little better, and establish objectives that are attainable in a detailed process. You may be well suited to work in law enforcement, the military, industrial engineering, or conservation. Personal relationships are often disappointing to you. You may select a mate that is an extension of one of your parents. You should instead seek one who would be less demanding, more liberal, and who could compensate for the austerity of your parents. It is unlikely that your family environment will be a replay of your childhood. You will want your children to have more flexibility to enable them to become secure, independent adults.
Also, could you have fluctuating concentration levels b/c of the conflict between your desires and your sense of responsibility? I'm a little lost? Could ya explain a bit?

Kay, I'm going to bed. Toodle-doo and Nighty Night!! :P
-Mabel
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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 06-11-2007, 12:57 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Woah, you're all fire and energy aren't you. I'm guessing there are no problems with your energy levels. I even have problems talking sometimes, where my energy will dip so severly that I'll stop mid sentence unable to finish what I was saying without some struggle.

I've known about it for a long time, but I'm really noticing it more and more as I grow older. And basically I think it's an actual physical reaction. I really like my work (although I'm frustrated with the lack of future in it). But it's creative while restrictive, and I have a lot of freedom to choose my hours and whatnot. I'm a scientist (the anti-astrologers ?) and sometimes become so obsessive that I can work for days without stopping, without sleep or food. But other times, weeks, I can do nothing but stare out the window. It's very frustrating. It was that and some other things that really resonated for me in the description of the aspect. The other was thinking that I'm not ever as good as my colleagues/peers, which can't be true. I know I can contribute, but there is this constant self doubt. This all comes from the Saturn-Mars opposition. And the key, since it's a T-square is Pluto! How does Pluto affect this aspect? Is the focus in opposition to the apex of the T? That would be Aries, 4th House.

I really don't indentify at all with the need for control, or the supposed violent aspects of the Pluto-Mars (which is square with an orb of 0°21'). I remember as a child and even a teenager being terrified of all violent situations or even you know dark and gloomy places. I used to imagine, while walking home at night, being attacked or murdered. Which only happened once or twice . And I don't need to have the last word in arguments. I have left arguments that have become too heated. I know some people who just love the argument, but I really don't have that. I'm passionate about things so I will argue forcefully, but if it goes too far I will retreat inside myself and let the thing loose it's puff. With my relationship it wasn't a power struggle, I just didn't have any power. Well whatever, I've grown out of that, and I'm much happier for it.

Hmm, duties and desires? I'm not sure if my energy fluctuates because of that, although they are in conflict. Isn't that true for everyone though? Actually it's a BIG issue right now. Not sure which way to go.

Didn't follow all the numbers I've got to say. This is some numerology? I look toward Astro and Tarot for my questions/answers (?).

One last thing: I think that younger people are more adept at using Pluto's energy positively. A lot of Astrological interpretation comes from the 30-50's when the world had enormous wars, and these were "blamed" on Pluto and Neptune so that they often have negative interpretations.

Ciao ciao, Mathieu
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Unread 06-15-2007, 03:46 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Mars square Pluto
There is a conflict of wills and interference with each other. Resistance is made to any show of authority in either one of you.Minor irritations are augured if the two charts show dominant harmony.However, if the two charts are dominantly discordant, there can be violent reactions to each other. Each of you resists any show of "bossiness" in the other. You can hinder each other's efforts and also be vindictive toward each other. In marriage this aspect denotes problems of sexual adjustment.
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Unread 06-19-2007, 11:44 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

I have a mars conjunct pluto... in Libra (thank god), both planet also conjuncts my ascendant. My sister has the same aspect also... all I can say is that my relationship with my sister sums up this aspect, we are both very argumentative, competitive, always trying to get at eachother's throats, since we were very young.. both physical and verbal fights were common. We are both very explosive with our tempers, in a cathargic sense although I am more in control of my emotions that she is. But at the same time, we have worked very well together in business (we had our own internet business)... it can work against or in favor depending on how the energy is channeled. Also, I need a lot of physical release... excercising, etc. :60:
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Unread 06-20-2007, 07:32 AM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Well i had problems in the past with sibling-fights. Until I was about 13 or 14 when I decided by a very concious decision not to do it anymore, and I never did. I am sure it is possible to transform the resulting energies. But maybe not for someone with the conjunction .

I have been looking at my secondary progressions and a natural consequence of this theory is that (nearly) all hard aspects at some point in life go through some soft aspects. The Mars square Pluto becomes a trine when I'm around 40.
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Unread 08-04-2007, 11:53 PM
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Red face Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Pluto is not as important as the 7 traditional planets.
So there is no reason to worry. However it may be
interesting to understand the aspect.
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Unread 08-06-2007, 10:55 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

Well, I think it's the MOST important planet in my CHARt! with pluto in my first house in scorpio and the first house also ruled by scorpio, I'd say it's def worth a second lookk derrr sweet pea. Anyway I figured out what this whole thing was about =) (i think..lolz) For now it's what it's about until something else pops up lol. fer sure. Anyway, it's about showing the world my real motivations instead of hiding them, not being afraid to show my real ambitions and motivations/intentions! this is the key. With mars square pluto i hide my ambitious, pioneering, and assertive qualities. and with venus square pluto i hide my need for love and desire for um lust and whatever else...my desire for human bonds of friendship and whatnot i guess. And with pluto because i am trying to hide something from people (VERY much subconsciously jsut realized this not too long ago) --very much like i would a secret i try to manipulate people and the situation so that they'll still like me regardless of not seeing my true self--instead of directly showing my ambitiousness and assertiveness and you better like me or you're not worth my time attitude (lol which is actually not very healthy but oh well that's what it is for now..i mean isn't this how everybody's ego thinks anyway?? I think so.) So anyway, that's pretty much it. And the reason why i have been denying myself the permission to show all these qualities (that i need and do want things from the world and from people.......not in an evil/power hungry way now don't get me wrong--lol. wow.) is because i'm embarassed to admit that i actually want to succeed and have the drive to because i've gotten messages from my environment since i was little that i wasn't capable enough. In one sentence: I was embarassed to show that i took myself seriously, because I felt that other people didn't take me seriously, and so I'd be embarassed if I did fall on my face. But of course this was all subconscious before and now i totally understand where allt hese fears stem from (fear of people seeing how seriously i take myself and how seriously i take my relationship with them whatever that is..) and now i can see that all i have to do is take myself seriously and show it regardless of whether i percieve that some others are not taking me so. Some may not, but others will, and those others are the one who count . Yayness. I always wondered why i found it hard to look people in the eyes. I was hiding a very big part of myself! Now this "embarassing" secret is one I Must share! (it was something i was ashamed of...:/...but now that understand my fear i see there's no reason to..it's something be happy about yay. */hugs herself* lmao.
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What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 08-06-2007, 10:59 PM
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Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

And also, i wanted to add, I had read somewhere that those with pltuo int heir 1st and those with pluto transiting their 1st are very good at seeing other people's underlying motivations and being a good psycholgist and whatnot.Well if you ask me Someone with pluto in their first house becomes so aware of other's motivations simply because they are so aware of their own. Why? Because they're so busy hiding them. And that's why they're hiding from life and this factor is also exactly what needs to be changed (/stopped/transformed) through the power and determination of Pluto.

Take care all you beings in transformation!
-From a Pluto in the 1st House.
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When lighting strikes the sea, why donīt all the fish die? Hahaha

What I've Learned: Be honest with yourself, some people aren't worth getting to know, the ones that are will find you interesting and valuable. "Those who mind don't matter and those who Matter don't mind." - dR. sEUSS

"The sailor doesn't ask for more wind, he learns how to sail." (I have fixed signs most of all, 1 mutable) :]
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Unread 08-07-2007, 04:07 PM
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Talking Re: Mars Square Pluto 00°01' in my chart! O_O

[quote=DainBramaged]And also, i wanted to add, I had read somewhere that those with pltuo int heir 1st and those with pluto transiting their 1st are very good at seeing other people's underlying motivations and being a good psycholgist and whatnot.

quote]

I couldnt agree more! I can see through peoples motives like im looking through glass, I can also spot people lying so easily, I feel sometimes its a bit of a curse having to stand there nodding when I know full well that what im being told is a load of crud! As for telling lies myself, well theres no point as i might as well have a flashing light on my forhead saying LIAR! So I keep with honest is the best policy always ( even though im sometimes regarded as being blunt for being honest)

From 1st house pluto, conjunct uranus, mars, moon (all in virgo)
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