Sabian Symbols and Movies

I'm surely not the only one to have noticed and maybe in the archives there are posts already on this topic. But since I haven't seen it discussed lately, here goes.

In short, I've noticed that many short stories, novels, and movies seem to draw inspiration from the same archetypes that the Sabian Symbols illustrate so compellingly. While I've worked out a formula of sorts for linking stories to particular Sabian symbols, for now I'll just provide some illustrative examples of movies/stories and single symbols. In no particular order other than astrological here's a very incomplete list.

Feel free to add to the list!
--sdh3

Aries 01: A woman rises out of the water, a seal rises and embraces her.
--The Secret of Roan Inish

Aries 12: A flock of wild geese. --The Wild Geese

Aries 13: An unsuccessful bomb explosion.--The Hurt Locker

Aries 21: A pugilist entering the ring.--all the "Rocky" movies

Taurus 8: A sleigh without snow.--Cool Running, a Disney movie about the
Jamaican bobsled team.

Taurus 18: A woman holding a bag out of a window. --Sunshine Cleaning

Taurus 26: A Spaniard serenading his senorita.--Don Juan Demarco

Cancer 5: An automobile wrecked by a train.--Crash


Cancer 10: A large diamond not completely cut. --Blood Diamond

Cancer 23: Meeting of a literary society. --The Dead Poet's Society

Cancer 24: A woman and two men on a bit of sunlit land facing south. -- Lost (TV)

Cancer 25: A dark shadow or mantle thrown suddenly over the right shoulder. --The Dark Knight and all other Batman movies

Leo 3: A woman having her hair bobbed. Bernice Bobs her Hair.

Leo 6: An old-fashioned woman and an up-to-date girl.--Freaky Friday

Leo 28: Many little birds on the limb of a large tree. -Avatar

Virgo 11 A boy molded in his mother's aspiration for him.--Big Mama's Boy, Mama's Boy

Libra 19 A gang of robbers in hiding -- Ocean's 11

Scorpio 14 Telephone linemen at work.--Everybody's Fine

Sagittarius 23 Immigrants entering.--Coming to America and about a dozen others

Sagittarius 26 A flag-bearer. The Red Badge of Courage


Sagittarius 15 The groundhog looking for its shadow. Ground Hog Day.

Pisces 2 A squirrel hiding from hunters.-- Winter's Bone


Pisces 10 An aviator in the clouds.--The Aviator

Pisces 15 An officer preparing to drill his men.--An officer and a gentlemen

Pisces 30 The Great Stone Face.--The Great Stone Face!

sdh3...I just had posted an example in the thread on Kominsky symbols, last week...take a gander!

here's what I posted...the part about 'discovery' is from Rudhyars system of nomenclature from His book.



...now, lets see how well the Quintiles outline a plot for a movie. As I am partial to discovery I will start with a beginning in Gemini...and I'll use the 5th degree as it is my Natal Mars.
Thus I'm going to use the five symbols found at:
Gemini 05*
Leo 17*
Libra 29*
Capricorn 11* &
Pisces 23*


(GEMINI 5°): A REVOLUTIONARY MAGAZINE ASKING FOR ACTION.

KEYNOTE: The explosive tendency of repressed feelings and root emotions.

... What is rigidly bound in form and convention tends to explode into formlessness. It may do so violently if socially oppressed — through revolution — or at the psychological level in psychosis; or it may withdraw inwardly into the mystical state in which one identifies with an unformulatable Reality.

Whether the revolutionary action is violent or peaceful, bitterly resentful or loving, the one desire is TO REACH BEYOND ESTABLISHED FORMS.

(LEO 17°): A VOLUNTEER CHURCH CHOIR SINGING RELIGIOUS HYMNS.

KEYNOTE: The feeling of togetherness which unites men and women in their dedication to a collective ideal.

Religion in its institutionalized aspect is the attempt to give a transcendental character to the feeling of community. The fellowship of common work needed for substance and security in a dangerous world is exalted in periodic rituals in which the co-workers participate. .

.... The existence of a volunteer church choir implies a rather steady phase of culture and society. What is sung reflects the special way in which a particular community of human beings — extensive as it may be — interprets the deepest realities of human existence and man's longings for an ideal. The symbol expresses the idealized aspect of TOGETHERNESS.

(LIBRA 29°): MANKIND'S VAST AND ENDURING EFFORT TO REACH FOR KNOWLEDGE TRANSFERABLE FROM GENERATION TO GENERATION.

KEYNOTE: A deep sense of participation in, and commitment to, social processes which seek to bring to all men Truth and a greater Life.

The most characteristic trait in human nature is the ability to "bind time" (as Korzybsky once stated): that is, to transfer to other men as yet unborn the harvest of his conscious experiences and his deliberate endeavors.

This...symbol suggests the technique that makes a life truly "human." To join other men and women in the vast process of a living civilization is to fulfill the basic implications of the human stage of cosmic evolution — a stage characterized by CONSCIOUS PARTICIPATION.

(CAPRICORN 11°): A LARGE GROUP OF PHEASANT ON A PRIVATE ESTATE.

KEYNOTE: The refinement and propagation of aristocratic values by means of which man participates in the evolution of life toward ever more per feet forms of existence.

All life implies a hierarchy of values, from the crude to the subtle, from the rough and the ugly to the beautiful..... This is what the social process produces in its highest aspect. The first symbol of the fifty-seventh five-fold sequence shows us how man can cooperate with nature in creating beauty and elegance by capitalizing on skill and opportunity. The Keyword is ARISTOCRACY.

(PISCES 23°): A "MATERIALIZING" MEDIUM GIVING A SEANCE.

KEYNOTE: The ability to give of one's own vital energy to substantiate one's conscious ideals or unconscious desires.

The person who believes he or she has a mission or mandate, or any special gift that can be of value to his community, must substantiate this belief. He has to produce results. Sometimes this involves difficulties and special conditions or circumstances; it always demands to some extent the gift of some power of value which is deeply one's own.... The performer gives of his very life to the performance.

This refers...In its most constructive aspect... it suggests the Keyword: SUBSTANTIATION.


...Now, here's what I put together from that as to the plot...

...some 'Revolutionaries inciting for social change...political change...destroy the old...
But they do congregate with a belief of a Higher Authority...and have faith, love and hope to supplant that destructive anger and use it to a means...

...and they gather the best of their collective knowledges and skills and present them to all others as those tools needed to rebuild society well. Knowledge and skills to be passed on into the future...one generation after another...and aggressively seek 'conscious participation' by every member of society...every citizen...

...and having established what is needed , what things of true value to keep...knowledges...skills...tenets...goals...they preserve them and then cultivate and refine these things...maturing and growing in the proper and dignified way a person, a people, a society...a 'civil' ization should.


...and finally, the Revolutionaries...enduring and succeeding with their coup...then rebuilding... and more than just that...re-conceptualizing...redesigning society and cultivating and refining it...
They had to give of their own vital energy to substantiate those conscious ideals.

They were the kind of person who believes he or she has a mission or mandate, must substantiate this belief. He has to produce results. Sometimes this involves difficulties and special conditions or circumstances; it always demands to some extent the gift of some power of value which is deeply one's own.... The performer gives of his very life to the performance. The revolutionary gives of his very life to the revolution.

This refers...In its most constructive aspect... it suggests the Keyword: SUBSTANTIATION.


...Now, wasn't that a good movie?

Right, quintiles form the back-bone of story structure--be those screenplays, novels, short-stories, what have you. Rudhyar suggested as much in his book although he didn't develop the idea very fully. Still, it's enough to get the process going. I've got one or more examples for each of the 72 stars but that's not nearly enough. The key question is this--how do you get from the back-bone to the full skeleton and from there to flesh and viscera and from there to a living, breathing story? Books on screen writing and plot structure are very helpful in this regard but they don't provide any insight at all about the use of symbols, per se.

So, ptv, what "movie" do you think your star described?

---sdh3

sdh3 said:

Right, quintiles form the back-bone of story structure--be those screenplays, novels, short-stories, what have you. Rudhyar suggested as much in his book although he didn't develop the idea very fully. Still, it's enough to get the process going. I've got one or more examples for each of the 72 stars but that's not nearly enough. The key question is this--how do you get from the back-bone to the full skeleton and from there to flesh and viscera and from there to a living, breathing story? Books on screen writing and plot structure are very helpful in this regard but they don't provide any insight at all about the use of symbols, per se.

So, ptv, what "movie" do you think your star described?

---sdh3

Click to expand...

Hey, sdh3. I just pulled that example out of the air...it was a 'reactionary' reply to the thread on the Kominsky symbols. Meaning I didn't take time to think about it and just grabbed it out of the air.
But, I do know that Marc Edmond Jones, the idea man and co-founder of the Sabian Symbols, did make a nice $$$ from writing movie scripts for Hollywood ...after the re-unveiling of the Sabian Symbols in the 1920s. Thus, I had the confidence to just go ahead with any example I chose, from [possibly]* any degree as a 'starting point' that I chose.
I can't think of any movie in particular, or any plot of any book, that what I illustrated might be an answer to your question. But, if we think about it, doesn't that illustrate...kind of, what this nation [the United States] did so in fact, more or less, actually undergo?


* As i said, I pulled that out of the'air'...in that I knew about the pentagram arrangement, allegedly, illustrating a script...but have never tinkered with it ...or, even 'really' checked it out...for that matter. [I've got so much else on my plate...] But, I had 99.99% confidence that it existed....but, as there are 72 pentagrams, possible, in the 360 degrees of the Zodiac, I kinda have a hunch that any script, to be totally viable, must start with the first 72 degrees of the Zodiac...
This would take a lot of time to pursue, as to verifying it ...and like I said, I've got so much on my plate.

piercethevale said:

Hey, sdh3. I just pulled that example out of the air...it was a 'reactionary' reply to the thread on the Kominsky symbols. Meaning I didn't take time to think about it and just grabbed it out of the air.

But, I do know that Marc Edmond Jones, the idea man and co-founder of the Sabian Symbols, did make a nice $$$ from writing movie scripts for Hollywood ...after the re-unveiling of the Sabian Symbols in the 1920s.

Click to expand...

SDH3: I think MEJ did his work in the film industry before he released the Sabians. But even if not, I am sure that he was aware of how they could be used as a structure for stories.

piercethevale said:

* As i said, I pulled that out of the'air'...in that I knew about the pentagram arrangement, allegedly, illustrating a script...but, as there are 72 pentagrams, possible, in the 360 degrees of the Zodiac, I kinda have a hunch that any script, to be totally viable, must start with the first 72 degrees of the Zodiac...

Click to expand...

SDH3: As Lynda Hill will confirm, I've been talking about and muling over this idea since the mid-90's. I recently came across some notes of mine from 1995 where I wrote matched up a bunch of movies to each of the 72 pentagrams. Now that I've trained myself to see movies in this way, it's relatively easy to determine. In the last few years I realized that what I was missing was a practical understanding of the craft of screenwriting. Not that I have a mind to do this for a living. Rather to make the linkage between the Sabian pentagrams and story structure, I figured learning the nuts and bolts of screenwriting would be helpful. In short, it has been.

piercethevale said:

This would take a lot of time to pursue, as to verifying it ...and like I said, I've got so much on my plate.

Click to expand...

SDH3: Ditto concerning the lots on the plate. I spend a little time on it each week. so for me this is a long term project. Living outside the states I only just learned of a movie released this summer called Zookeeper. Just looking and the poster and reading the synopsis I couldn't help but think of Star 29--the most animaliest of all the pentagrams!!

Virgo 23: An animal trainer
Aries 29: A celestial choir singing
Sagit 5: An old owl up in a tree
Cancer 11: A clown grimacy
Aquarius 17: A watchdog standing guard.

What's not obvious from these short descriptions is that when you analyze the paronyms of the words of the symbols, there are several other animals and birds as well.

Note: Aries 29 is only 1 degree from Aries 30 (a duck pond and its brood). Sometimes I've noted that as a practical matter, pentagrams underlying stories are sometime "off" by one degree in either direction. Or perhaps I should say they have an orb of +/- 1 degree, thereby picking up needed elements from a closely adjoining degree.

I was making a item by item reply SDH3 ...I got too tired last night to finish..saved it in my files...couldn't find it today...just finished a second response only to have it all vanish as i tried to post it.
So...I'm gonna be brief. As to what Marc did with scripts. The Sabians were re-unveiled in 1925...I don't what years Marc was writing scripts ..but there weren't a whole lot of scripts for movies in existence prior to 1925-6...I just figure he picked up on it quickly and put it to His advantage.
It's not so much as to what I HAVE on my plate as to what I want on my plate...and I wish to go on a diet. I'm burning out...and the way the mods and this site treat me and my writing...prime example the hacking up of my post on tonites Full Moon is exhibit A...it was a superb example of the veracity, utilization, validity, and primo facto importance of their acceptance and use in Astrology...and to single it out over many others [that are no longer of relevance as to being of immediate concern] for editing under the guise of being over a hundred word limit on quotations has concretely demonstrated to me that this web site is not about truth and real knowledge but rather about resistance to change and maintaining illusory intellectual pedestals. [The 'Lily Crowd']
So having said that..and come what may tomorrow...let me point out that if you haven't read what I posted on the 'Validation of the Sabians" which you can find at the actastrology.com forum and how there is a birth chart axis for all Creation [this is for the BIG BANG and not the 'THELMA MUNDI"...capiche?] [i.e. 'WHO", "WHERE-TO", "HOW" and "WHY"] then you must read it...IMHO...and once you do you may see that the CREATOR...which/Whom I call GOD ...and some of the other articles I've got floating around on sacred geometry...when put together [like 2 + 2] reveal that God made this creation perfect in imperfection. As many Theists claim that God does not create anything less than perfection...I must say; They are right. But God created this existence perfect in imperfection for a reason as is illustrated by the chart axis I'm referring to [Cap30*/Aquar.01* the "WHO" ... Cancer 30*/Leo 01* the "WHERE-TO"...Aries 30*/Taurus 01* the "HOW" ...Libra 30*/Scorpio 01* the "WHY"] ...as you'll get a hint of in Rudhyars' commentary/definitions for those degrees involved at the "WHY" and "HOW"...simply..finding the limits...letting the 'Vision' find it own nature and its own limitations for the reason of, 'The Pursuit of Knowledge"... which can be derived from the broadening of experience and perceptions derived there-from.
if God had made a 'perfect' creation ...it would be a predictable and closed result/conclusion...why bother?...God wondered ...'What If'?...What if I make it slightly less than perfect...allowing for mutations?...it may become something greater...grander...than anything I, GOD, can imagine...[GOD dwells within you as you.]

...that's the way I interpret it...lthink about it.

peace out....ptv

Piercethevale, I hope you haven't checked out! I'm just getting into this stuff!

Apologies, I am young and eager. . .but I love your posts!

Truth be told though, I feel the same way about "the lily crowd" here...some people only seem to use this place to re-affirm their own egos, its not about actually having a discussion, rather like a posturing match....and some of the things that I've read in natal/predictive stuff has been just vile- throwing around these broad statements as if they are masters, that a nervous, confused beginner would just take so seriously... (ex: oh your moon is a singleton, therefore you will always feel disconnected from others) BLARGH it disgusts me.

If you were a master, you would be making money or you wouldn't be saying things like that. . .sigh... ...

DON't GO AWAY WAHH I JUST FOUND A COOL PERSON!!!! >_<

Reading some of your stuff at ACT astrology. . .wow...

Rushwing said:

Piercethevale, I hope you haven't checked out! I'm just getting into this stuff!

Apologies, I am young and eager. . .but I love your posts!

Truth be told though, I feel the same way about "the lily crowd" here...some people only seem to use this place to re-affirm their own egos, its not about actually having a discussion, rather like a posturing match....and some of the things that I've read in natal/predictive stuff has been just vile- throwing around these broad statements as if they are masters, that a nervous, confused beginner would just take so seriously... (ex: oh your moon is a singleton, therefore you will always feel disconnected from others) BLARGH it disgusts me.

If you were a master, you would be making money or you wouldn't be saying things like that. . .sigh... ...

DON't GO AWAY WAHH I JUST FOUND A COOL PERSON!!!! >_<

Click to expand...

You should have been a carpenter, because when you swing for the nail... EL&L...ptv

Rushwing said:

Reading some of your stuff at ACT astrology. . .wow...

Click to expand...

Wow, that's a very uplifting compliment...and most timely. Thank you. Eternal Light & Love, Dave.

sdh3.
Have you read my thread on YODS?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42642
If you agree there, at least, might be something to this theory of mine then what this is about is resolving the oppositions integration through the 'Genuis Aspect" of the Quintile. [I think you'll eventually find out that I'm all for the integration of the opposites school of Astrology...through the Modernist use of, Quintiles.]
[now, this would be quite a book...the one I think you should write...IMHO...of course.]
The Finger of God only makes sense symbolically when it is realized that the YOD is the letter of the Hebraic alphabet that represents the number ten. 360 divided by 10 is 36...a semi-Quintile.
As I pointed out...all the angles of this YOD configuration equal two Quintiles and a semi-Q, for the interior angles [it's all in the math, baby!]
Think about it...somebody got there YODS cofunsed...they did...[Wrong YOD they wrote, Quintile YOD it is, Should have wrote, they did. [The great 'Yod-a'].
I'm going to pick a couple of degrees in opposition and give this a trial demonstration. Have you got any two you'd like to suggest?

piercethevale said:

sdh3.
Have you read my thread on YODS?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42642
If you agree there, at least, might be something to this theory of mine then what this is about is resolving the oppositions integration through the 'Genuis Aspect" of the Quintile. [I think you'll eventually find out that I'm all for the integration of the opposites school of Astrology...through the Modernist use of, Quintiles.]
[now, this would be quite a book...the one I think you should write...IMHO...of course.]
The Finger of God only makes sense symbolically when it is realized that the YOD is the letter of the Hebraic alphabet that represents the number ten. 360 divided by 10 is 36...a semi-Quintile.
As I pointed out...all the angles of this YOD configuration equal two Quintiles and a semi-Q, for the interior angles [it's all in the math, baby!]
Think about it...somebody got there YODS cofunsed...they did...[Wrong YOD they wrote, Quintile YOD it is, Should have wrote, they did. [The great 'Yod-a'].
I'm going to pick a couple of degrees in opposition and give this a trial demonstration. Have you got any two you'd like to suggest?

Click to expand...

PtV, didn't see your post but will look it up later today or early tomorrow.
thoughtfully
sdh3

Here is a interesring link:

http://cafeastrology.com/sabiansymbols_degreemeanings.html


And this is what I have found about Taurus 2 degrees:

Taurus 2 degrees - 'An Electrical Storm'

'The Cosmic power able to transform all the implication of natural existence.'

This is a celestial display of power from the soul field. This power can illume or shatter. The person may be deeply disturbed by 'The Visitation', but the substance of the individual may be fecundated by the experience.

This symbol is often found with people who have quick wit and are very intelligent. Electrical energy discharging creating flashes of light. Emotional energy-passion and 'ideas' like a light bulb.. flashes of inspiration..gaining insight from sudden awareness, intuition with this symbol. You need to respect all the 'natural' forces that govern your life. Fire AND water in this sybmol.

Oh it can also be stormy emotions - exploding energy when not stable... advice - when you let your anger out like a thunderstorm it soon passes just take stock of any damage you may have caused.

Keep in mind that electricity can be described in terms of the electromagnetic spectrum, which also includes color.

This is a very Aquarius feeling symbol – so all the Aquarian definitions apply – for example – saving the world, new ways of doing things, invention, sudden and unexpected insights, new age philosophy’s. Au fait with modern technology (electronics, electricity and gadgets).


I'm really starting to like these sabian symbols

fullmoonlibra said:

Here is a interesring link:

http://cafeastrology.com/sabiansymbols_degreemeanings.html


And this is what I have found about Taurus 2 degrees:

Taurus 2 degrees - 'An Electrical Storm'

'The Cosmic power able to transform all the implication of natural existence.'

...snip...

Keep in mind that electricity can be described in terms of the electromagnetic spectrum, which also includes color.

This is a very Aquarius feeling symbol – so all the Aquarian definitions apply – for example – saving the world, new ways of doing things, invention, sudden and unexpected insights, new age philosophy’s. Au fait with modern technology (electronics, electricity and gadgets).


I'm really starting to like these sabian symbols

Click to expand...

Your intuition concerning Aquarius is interesting. The symbol for Aquarius 2 as given by Marc Jones was "An unexpected thunderstorm." Those two symbols are, of course, precisely 90 degrees apart. In one we have lightning and in the other, it is thunder that is emphasized. Those here who have studied the Sabians in depth know that this is not the only instance where symbols separated by the major aspects share strong similarities. In fact, at least two commentators--Marc Jones and much later, Blain Bovee--based all of their interpretations upon this realization. Dane Rudhyar also did much in expanding our understanding of the internal structure of these wonderful symbols.

--sdh3

PS: Here's another interpretation of Taurus 2 that might interest you, pretty similar to the one you provided but more "academic" in tone.

It really is amazing! So this is the reason why I don't feel like a typical Taurus.
I'm going to research these symbols
It seems like they give a deeper meaning to the 'reality'

sdh3 said:

Your intuition concerning Aquarius is interesting. The symbol for Aquarius 2 as given by Marc Jones was "An unexpected thunderstorm." Those two symbols are, of course, precisely 90 degrees apart. In one we have lightning and in the other, it is thunder that is emphasized. Those here who have studied the Sabians in depth know that this is not the only instance where symbols separated by the major aspects share strong similarities. In fact, at least two commentators--Marc Jones and much later, Blain Bovee--based all of their interpretations upon this realization. Dane Rudhyar also did much in expanding our understanding of the internal structure of these wonderful symbols.

--sdh3

PS: Here's another interpretation of Taurus 2 that might interest you, pretty similar to the one you provided but more "academic" in tone.

Click to expand...

I hadn't noticed this before as to these two degrees..good looking out...
and that is quite interesting as it is the degree, Taurus 2*, I get for Mercury for the chart that I've proposed is that of Yeshua ben David.

sdh3, I just want to emphasize that the matrix of a 'Grand Semi -Quintile' is that of two Pentagrams...one upright and the other, upside down...see the symbolism?

Gods' finger would be most appropriate a term as what is being shown is that there is a resolution to the question that is posed by the very occult Gnostic belief that both 'Good' and 'Evil' are relative terms and as both good and evil come from God then this is God's way of pointing to the resolution of not understanding the best solution as to how and or why it can be, should be, and most likely, must be done.

..I would think, anyways....

piercethevale said:

sdh3.
Have you read my thread on YODS?
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=42642

Click to expand...

I have now, yes.

piercethevale said:

If you agree there, at least, might be something to this theory of mine then what this is about is resolving the oppositions integration through the 'Genuis Aspect" of the Quintile.

Click to expand...

Agreed.

piercethevale said:

The Finger of God only makes sense symbolically when it is realized that the YOD is the letter of the Hebraic alphabet that represents the number ten.

Click to expand...

Did you know that the word "finger" descends from the Indo-European (IE) root penkwe which means "five." The word "five" also descends from this root. Check the American Heritage Dictionary of Ind-European Roots for more detail.

piercethevale said:

As I pointed out...all the angles of this YOD configuration equal two Quintiles and a semi-Q, for the interior angles

Click to expand...

Yes, this makes sense: every exact opposition can be broken down into a bi-quintile (144) + a semi-quintile (36). There would be two on either "side", if course, and bi-quintiles would be on the same five pointed star as one of the end-points (but not both).

This is similar to an idea I shared with Lynda Hill about 15 years back about how to build stories from five-pointed stars.

* Oppositions and/or squares around the star for dramas
* Trines for comedies (or inconjuncts for one that's really "zany")
* Semi-squares for psychological thrillers
* Sextiles and oppositions for epics

I figured this out somewhat intuitively but never had a good answer for WHY. Your post on the Yod has helped moved that thinking forward a great deal. For that I say "THANKS."

piercethevale said:

I'm going to pick a couple of degrees in opposition and give this a trial demonstration. Have you got any two you'd like to suggest?

Click to expand...

How about ones that don't usually get discussed, e.g.

* Aries 11-Libra 11
* Gemini 30-Sagittarius 30
* Leo 26- Aquarius 26
* Virgo 1 - Pisces 1

sdh3 said:

I have now, yes.



Agreed.



Did you know that the word "finger" descends from the Indo-European (IE) root penkwe which means "five." The word "five" also descends from this root. Check the American Heritage Dictionary of Ind-European Roots for more detail.



Yes, this makes sense: every exact opposition can be broken down into a bi-quintile (144) + a semi-quintile (36). There would be two on either "side", if course, and bi-quintiles would be on the same five pointed star as one of the end-points (but not both).

This is similar to an idea I shared with Lynda Hill about 15 years back about how to build stories from five-pointed stars.

* Oppositions and/or squares around the star for dramas
* Trines for comedies (or inconjuncts for one that's really "zany")
* Semi-squares for psychological thrillers
* Sextiles and oppositions for epics

I figured this out somewhat intuitively but never had a good answer for WHY. Your post on the Yod has helped moved that thinking forward a great deal. For that I say "THANKS."




How about ones that don't usually get discussed, e.g.

* Aries 11-Libra 11
* Gemini 30-Sagittarius 30
* Leo 26- Aquarius 26
* Virgo 1 - Pisces 1

Click to expand...

That's big...i didn't know that...and now it completely convinces me that the 'sextile' YOD was a mistake due to it having been forgotten and whoever tried to remember must have been looking over someones shoulder and thought they remembered or were hal asleep when they were taught it. As it is the next closest to the Quintile YOD it isn't hard to believe that's what happened somewhere through history...but I'll bet the 'Trads.' still won't listen to reason. If they admit this then it sets a precedent for those of us that say this 'Science' is a heck of a lot older than anyone wants to admit..as look at how this ...or that...was lost and or confused and that it all needs a thorough review.


Way cool, as I too had a helpful clue given to me the other night which I was able to use to finally put the application of the colour spectrum to the Zodiac together...it's nice when that happens..and that ain't often...

I would try one of these Yods tomorrow...unless you get to it first...then I'll probably be content with watchin' you for awhile..as you've got the experience working with the symbols in the pentagram and I know next to absolutely nothing about semi-Quintiles but I would imagine somebody has written on them. And I do need may try to do some studying before I make a, "Public" endavor of this.

...idea...
I did do a quickie the day after I posted on this Yod biz in December. I used the Sabian Symbol for my Mercury, as it was the symbol and degree that concerned me the most the last seven and a half years... as ever since this period started, I have been involved with writing, composing, spelling, reading, researching, rehearsing [3 radio interviews...which reminds me I heard today that radio station KOA in Denver. Colo. cancelled the 'Rick Barber Program', the man that got Art Bell started, that gave me my largest live audience of my life Dec 2005...I believe that radio lost about the last honest interviewer/investigator it had, very sad day...indeed.] more than ever, I could 'see it' but it did seem like I was surely going to be confronted by an audience asking...'So, what good is it?" , I just knew it was going to be the 'bane' of me regardless...sometimes you just know the 'guy in the white hat' is the victim and not the hero...but you gotta watch the movie anyways to find out.

so..if you'll pardon my 'Rudhyar"...
My Merc. @(ARIES 28°): A LARGE AUDIENCE CONFRONTS THE PERFORMER WHO DISAPPOINTED ITS EXPECTATIONS.

KEYNOTE: The necessity for mature preparation and self-criticism.

We see here the tangible results of the situation evoked by the two preceding symbols. Great hopes, excited expectations cannot be sustained. The last symbol reveals the performer's state of consciousness; in this one he is actually made fully aware of having promised - to the many elements of his own personality as well as perhaps to other human beings - more than he was able to deliver. The issue is how to handle this situation. In one form or another, it is an often recurring situation in the life of an individual person. The manner in which it is met determines the individual's future possibilities of development and achievement.

This is the third stage of this five-fold sequence. What is implied here is the need to be more than "obsessed by potentiality" and subjectively involved in the use of the new powers. The objective results have to be considered, i.e. what this use will do. The individual is not alone concerned, for in a sense mankind as a whole will be affected. What is required, therefore, is an objective inclusiveness of the whole environment; thus a sense of RESPONSIBILITY for what one's actions will produce in people who have been made to expect significant results."

See that phrase, "What is implied here is the need to be more than "obsessed by potentiality" and subjectively involved in the use of the new powers. The objective results have to be considered, i.e. what this use will do."
Well, everything I was about to write on was pretty much due to what resulted from Uranus and Pluto conjuncting my Part of Intelligence @ 24* Sag. 18' since I took up Astrology in 1984. Uranus in the late 80s' and just recently, this last decade, Pluto.

The 25th degree of Sag. includes this phrase [ibid] "KEYNOTE: The anticipatory enjoyment of powers one can only as yet dream of utilizing." and this phrase which also includes how Rudhyar summed it up with His 'Keyword'; " ...it is a play filled with cultural expectation, unconscious though this expectation may be. We see here the FORSHADOWING of the mature experience."
[not to mention: "the last symbol of the fifty-third sequence of five"...which I only now noticed for the first time..as we are talking Pentagrams here and ..funny thing...I was born in 53'...]

So, here this symbol says I'm not bringing the expected results...only anticipatory uses...I can only dream of what these things might be of usefulness for.
Evidence in my support, as to this conundrum, is the post I put up on the 'Astrology in relation to Musical tonality' thread. Like I said, I'm about 99.9% positive that what I finally was able to produce and also write, is a very concise, and clear, explanation as to why I thought it was the solution, both symbolically and mathematically... I hadn't even finished editing it when a post was made by a forum member stating:
"This seems awesome.. But still.. Too difficult.
What's your gain in this as musician?
I mean: I don't understand how to use in practice."

I replied: [and I should mention that I'm not a musician...I have been trying to play a banjo since 1972...you would think I'd learned something about music by now...I have. About as much as anyone can learn in a few days time..]
"It is part of the riddle...nothing more....I know that many have tried to apply both spectrum and musical tonality to the Zodiac...none succeeded...even Issac Newton tried, failed and was 'stumped'...
So, my gain?...nothing more than getting my name associated with it...that is, if it is the solution..."


Well, see? I don't have an answer...[as I did find that Issac Newton had tried to solve both and strongly believed that the two questions were intertwined..that the solution for one had to also support if not altogether imply and prove the other...I could even truly say: 'I don't know what it is, but if Sir Issac wanted it that bad, it must be something important"]
..and you can imagine the dread I felt as not only did I have to write..and I hate writing.. especially editing and correcting for mistakes. [and you remember the fortune cookie story I've told a few times...but, that still didn't soothe my nerves.]..and the smbol for Mercury says that, basically, that I'll do fine as long as what I present I also have another presentation as to what usefulness it has...have credible objectivity. ... And all I have is a handful of controversial material and what appears to be, at best, some subjective suggestions and theories [to some] ..or pipedreams [to others].

next I'll show the opp. of my Mercury and the Quintile~Semi-Quintile matrix and see if I am capable of demonstrating and explaining it.