Wealth

What are the indications of wealth in the Natal Chart?

Shining Ray

(Previously Miss Saturn)

Um, I can tell you that Mars in the 2H and Sun in the 5H, for my twin anyway, indicates both a great desire to achieve wealth and great motivation/ability to do so. I have 3H Mars and 6H Sun, and my motivations in life differ greatly. He wanted to be wealthy from an early age, I remember him saying that he'd hate to be poor. Doubt he'll ever be

My suggestion is that 2H, 5H and 8H (and yes also 10H, in that order) emphasis in the natal chart can describe motivation towards acquiring wealth. However, it's quite possible to have planets in these houses and not end up wealthy I believe that planets describe the motivation, not the necessarily the outcome

Here are two charts, both with a personal planet in the 2H, and a stellium in the 5H. These are my brothers; both self-made wealthy, both "in it" for the love of earning money and doing business.






Basically, one has his mind (mercury) and the other has his initiative (mars) in the house of values and personal wealth (2H).

I suspect that their 5H stelliums indicate (amongst other things) that they enjoy the independent risk-taking of entrepreneurship. Making BIG money generally involves the capacity for BIG personal risk, putting yourself on the line, and backing yourself when no one else will. That's a 5H kinda thing!

Their 5H/2H focus may also suggest a love of the 'good things in life' - basically expensive taste, which they both have. My older brother also has an 8H moon, possibly linking in the idea that other people trust him with their money

Just to provide some contrast: I would expect someone with Saturn in 2H to be concerned with wealth/material security, and as a result probably not poor, BUT unless they had placements that suggest something more entreprenuerial (like 5H Sun or Jupiter, or even 10H Jupiter or Venus) I wouldn't necessarily expect them to end up stinking rich

By the way, I got told that my own Jupiter in 4H is meant to signify early retirement and wealth, comfort and fortune in later life. We'll see about that

What about your Jupiter/Pluto conjunction, do you think this will indicate big money.

Shining Ray

Mmm, interesting question. My Pluto-Jupiter conjunction is actually contested being that it is across Libra-Scorpio, and straddling Nadir in different houses. The idea is that it signifies Power-conjunct-Opportunity, right? Basically the ability to shrewdly benefit from fortune in life. Sounds good

This is the best interpretation that I have read (from astrology-numerology.com)

A conjunction of Jupiter and Pluto confers the determination to achieve goals that will bring about improvements for both you and others.

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Yes I am determined and driven, in my own way. However, not by cash itself. If I can do what I feel driven to do, I'd rather be paid well for it than poorly. I sincerely enjoy earning from what I love, but I don't love pure entreupreneurship like my brothers do. Hopefully I'll end up wealthy enough by persuing what I have faith in; I believe that I can be. I won't be surprised if the latter part of my life is as comfy as 4H Jupiter is supposed to suggest

I've noticed that people with saturn or pluto in the second house seem to have some weird money issues. I've noticed people with saturn in the second seem to have a lot of money problems because they won't comprimise on their life styles. A couple of my friends have that placement and they are as poor as church mice. It seems they won't do anything that interferes with their spiritual or artistic life styles. I also see alot of 2nd house people (like those with stelliums in the 2nd) kind of give up in regards to ever having money. They will say it causes them stress to try to have money and they never seem to have it anyway. They say it is more important to not have debt(which I agree with) and work a low paying job that you enjoy and have a simple life. I have also seen people with pluto have a hell of a time with money( that would be me). My father also had this position along with a few of my exes. My father was always pawning his gun to have money to live off of. He also was constantly borrowing money from family members though he always payed them back punctually. I just thought we were poor. Layter when I was older I looked at my father's tax statements, and saw to my shock, that he actually made good money. We had lived in horrible conditions, because he didn't know how to handle his money. He constanly gets into debt, and then gets out, and then gets right back into it. He has a piece of land that is worth quite a bit of money. Now he wants to sell it to get out of debt. He is hell bent on loosint the one thing of monetary value that he has. He is always stuck in this survival mode. I'm trying to unlearn a lot of things that I learned from him. I have another friend with a stellium in the 2nd including pluto. He became quite wealthy early on through his hard work, and then he inherited a lot of money. He is very tight with his money though. He loves yoga, but would complain about having to pay $5 for a yoga class. Most yoga classes go for $15 a pop. While I'm on it I've also noticed that I have to guard my wallet when a neptune in the 8th house person is around. They will have me paying for everything. They honestly don't seem to aware that they are not paying their fair share( I apoligise if I offend any neptunians, I'm sure this is not the case with all neptunes it the 8th). Lilllybelle

I have Pluto in the 2nd house although it squares my Venus in Capricorn in the 5th House. My Venus also receives an opposition from Jupiter in the 11th house.

In textbook interpretations it says Pluto in the second is capable of great wealth. But aspects to Pluto may alter this or indicate you will lose money as well.

Pluto in the 2nd can also mean any call for transformation is aimed at your attitude towards wealth and material values in general. If your attitude is negative in some way-like desiring wealth to avoid closeness with others-then this can lead to financial upheaval, thereby forcing a change in values.
You find it easy to attract wealth in some form, or very difficult. In both cases the issue is the same: sooner or later you have to learn what the actual value of material things is. In other words what is done with wealth is the significant point.

My sister has Saturn in the 2nd house she is not short of money by my standards but she is in debt. She has issues with self worth and income and finances.

In The Art of prediction by Carol Rushman the Natal Promise for Wealth/Money

Income and inheritances are shown by the second and eighth houses, respectively. Uranus, Neptune, or Pluto in positive aspect to Venus and or/Jupiter can bring wealth. Uranus to Jupiter can be some sudden, unexpected windfall. I have seen lottery winners with a combination of these aspects. Neptune is more cumulative. If a client has good Neptune/Jupiter connections, he or she seems to manifest money. The client knows he or she is going to be rich, so it happens. Faith and beliefs seem to materialize wealth. It can indicate great wealth.

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Shining Ray

She talks about people who inherit, marry and win money. Given that none of those things has happened to you or I yet, I think it's fairly safe to assume we'd need a strong urge to MAKE money to end up rich! Or possibly a partner with this motivation, but I wouldn't count on it Do you like making money? Or do you just like having it? I think that's what differentiates people with self-made riches.

I do have Pluto/Jupiter/Uranus aspects to Venus, and Jupiter in 4H, but I'm not in line to inherit anything...haha perhaps 7H venus means I'll marry into wealth Not holding my breath....

I know Howl I have my angular seventh house Sun suggesting wealth/Success through partnerships. Well I can dream can't I, Hey my life isn't over yet I am only 27 it can still happen. I will keep you posted on the matter. If I can be bothered, if I end up rich I will be too busy in my Mansion with all my jewels and money. (Just Kidding)

Shining Ray

I wasn't going to participate in this thread, but you're starting to worry me...

I have my Pluto on the cusp of the 2nd house, I'm not sure if it's in the very very end of the 1st or the very very beginning of the second, depends if you use Koch. I was told I should interpert it in my 2nd house.

My Pluto is a 3 time singleton ( Only one in: Fixed modality, Social sign and Succedent house) , part of two Yod's in one of which he is the apex. The Yod he is the apex of involves Mars and Jupiter / Mercury / North Node ( the three are in tight conjunction ) pointing at Pluto.

The aspects are thus:

Pluto sextile Neptune
Pluto Inconjuct Mars
Pluto opposite Sun
Pluto trine P. Fortune
Pluto opposite Vertex (making it my anti - vertex)
Pluto semi-sextile Ascendant
Pluto trine Midheaven

My family has a lot of money *knocks on wood*, both my parents worked hard and are extremely smart with their fortunes.

I never gave this placement in my chart ANY notice whatsoever regarding money... nor did I notice any special attention to it in my attitude but you are all making me worried.

Given the information I just handed, what are your thoughts?

I have saturn in the 2nd house (Aquar/Pisces) directly opposite Uranus conjunct Pluto in the 8th house (Leo/Virgo), also a stellium of 10 in the second (if you count the asteroids, pof, and bml.)

I am currently poor-er than a church mouse. I have been very, very ill and unable to work for a number of years. Previous to all this, I was a successful insurance agent, owning my own business. I gradually realized I was not happy in this at all, and after changing location, it began going down the tubes anyway, so I quit selling, and decided to live off of the vested commission until I re-oriented myself. And in the meantime, the illness struck full force, and I wound up not being able to go in any direction. Meanwhile, the years ticked away, and the commisions slowly disappeared. I am currently living on $22 a month, and whatever other crumbs the Universe decides to hand down to me.

I also had inherited a little bit of money at my mother's death, but I mishandled it in the sense of I was too generous with the wrong people in my naivete. I have always been generous with my money. I was also very good at handling money. I had a pretty much flawless credit report before all this happened.

Any thoughts on this?

Shining Ray, thanks for the great article

I'd pretty much agree with the article that you put up.
But from first principles, jupiter is planet of luck and pluto is about regeneration/death/total control, so any of those aspects, plus a well aspected venus or saturn (again say to Jupiter) would be good as well, as these planets are the rulers of libra, tau and cap - signs associated with business, money, the mundane, luxury, beauty. Again, placement might help as well, maybe something in the 2nd or 10th might be good or 7th/8th for relying for money on others and 4th from inheritance.

Tim says ANY aspect between jupiter and pluto indicates wealth.

However, I must add that I know someone who has saturn in the 2nd and they are really broke and are very anti-commercial. They hate shops and all the things that go with business etc.

I have mars trine pluto/jupiter opp pluto/jup trine neptune and neptune in the 8th, Jup conj asc in 1st, Pluto 6th, Sun/Merc 10th and I am not rich, but I have gotten better since being with my partner. I would say in my youth, I wasn't rich and my family wasn't rich either; it was incredibly hard also when I was a student. I have never really been obsessed with money either apart from wanting enough not to be poor. I am much more interested in finding ways of enjoying life. I thought my Jup trine Nep was just concerned with my spirituality and also just my way maybe for work of getting through stuff/seeing through.

Lillybelle - no offence taken by this 8th house Neptune I never realised that those with this placement could have this effect. I hate it when people spend money on me, I feel guilty

What about in synastry? My sun falls in my partners 2nd house. Do I stimulate him to make money?

Hey Freedomlover, I meant to respond to your post earlier but I was busy with school. I actually wrote you a long reply last night then I accidentally erased it. So yeah what your describing sounds right on with your natal placemets. I would look to see what transits you were under when your health started to decline and when the money ran out just to get some insight. Here's the thing, this stuff is happening to you for a reason. I know it may feal like the universe is doing a careless random butt job on you, but you have to have the faith that this **** is happening to you so you can grow. When this transit is over, and all transits come to an end if you want them to badly enough, you will have grown tremendously. Sometimes when these type of transits are over they just seem so pointless and you feel like you have been punished. Then one day you realise all the **** you went through changed your values that it changed you. You might even come to a 2nd house conclusion that you are now better suited to survive in this world. I've had 2nd 8th house transits with saturn and pluto involved rock my world and leave me in the dirt. I became a stronger person rising out of the dirt. Eventually I realised that even though I wasn't responsible for the things that happened to me, I was responsible for surrounding myself with people who would do those type of things to me. Start digging deep and see if you can see how you are changing and what the spiritual lessons of bad health are for you. Don't shy away from ugly truths. I think it is important for all of us who have heavy 2nd 8th house karma to work towards putting down strong financial bases, but to be aware that no matter how hard you plan it can be snatched away from you in a minute. It might be useful to really examine your relationship with money. How it influences the way you live the and way you perceive yourself and other. I know for a long time I didn't understand what to do with money. I was like you pay your bills then what. The thought of having money made me nervous. I ended up homeless and dating a guy who was 27 and worth 500,000. He had been a millionaire the year before and then lost a good bit of it. We were both down on your luck. I was just homelessly down on my luck. He taught me a lot about money. I learned from him that you have money so that you can relax and have fun. Well, I've talked way too much. Lilllybelle

No, lilllybelle, you haven't talked too much!!! Keep talking!! You're making a whole lot of sense!

Thanks so much for the encouraging words and for sharing some of your own experience. Your words mean that much more, in that you've went through some of what I have went through.

One thing you said REALLY stood out to me: "Even though I wasn't responsible for the things that happened to me, I was responsible for surrounding myself with people who would do these types of things to me." That revelation has been slowly dawning on me these past few years. And I'm still digging my way out of that one. The same type of people are surrounding me still, although maybe at a further distance, but I can't seem to find a way to bring a different peer group to me, or me to them, whatever. But, yeah, that is a huge part of the problem. It mainly seems to stem from what I wrote in my "stuck" post about my spiritual beliefs. I believe in following the inner voice, no matter how much that conflicts with what society says, and the people around me say that you should conform to society, no matter what. Needless to say, the majority are not sympathetic to my plight in the least, and look down their nose at me. And I feel stuck amongst these people, as I mentioned, also, in my "stuck" post. Physically, without health or money, I have no way of putting myself in a more understanding circle of people.

Thanks again!!!!!!!

Psychotik,

Please do not be discouraged by your second house Saturn, as it has likely instilled within you a great sense of responsibility to earn money and accumulate material things. Although you may be required to work harder than an individual with a second house Jupiter in order to fulfill your desire for security, you will be less likely to squander money on frivolous pleasures because you KNOW the value of a dollar (or whatever currency your country uses)

Arian Maverick

Psychotik - I have to agree with AM. Its not a bad placement, you should also be able to make your dollar stretch further than others!

I'll gain things by marriage - Jupiter in H7. I'll also get inheritances - Sun and and Merc and Venus in H8.

Hi Manic

I'm supposed to get wealthy through others too...Venus in 7H, Jupiter in Scorpio 4H (conjunct Pluto 3H).....wealth by marriage AND by inheritance, right? Well, I'm not so convinced. I would hate to think that cash will make its way to me, and then be sorely disappointed if it fails to come

I bet not everyone with strong planets in the family/relationship/inheritance houses gains wealth this way. Surely it can't be so?! Do you view it as something that will happen, will probably happen, or something that just might happen?? I take the latter approach. Nice if its true, but act as if it isn't!!

Must say, if that inheritance is coming, I sure can't see it (unless my brothers somehow bequeath me their millions!!) My parents don't have an inheritance to spare. I figure I already inherited a loving, encouraging, and well educated childhood from them - also, a deep sense of my own value, intelligence, worthiness, strength. That's how I see 4H Scorpio Jupiter so far.

As for 7H venus, we shall see. Perhaps I would rather my partner have the OTHER qualities of venus (you know, exceptionally good looking, charming......) If he can bring the money as well, then great! I also have POF in 7H capricorn. Is that another 'rich indicator' for me?? Hah, I am a cynic. I don't mean to discount your theory of wealth inheritance, I would like to hear more about how you see your placements working. Do you see them as definites?

Hopefully life proves my cynicism wrong
.

I'm Curious to what everyone has said here about Saturn in the 2nd house indicating fincial troubles. My Saturn is in the 2nd, Aquarius. Sun sextile saturn. Venus square Saturn. Jupiter opposition Saturn. I think the sigh saturn is in may change the individuals adittude towards money.

I've never really had any troubles with money earning or recieving it. In fact quite the opposite. I often recive "good luck" in this department.

My Jupiter is in my 8th house, is this the reason these problems haven't occured, yet?

Sounds like Jupiter could be playing a role in your situation. From my understanding it's a good place for it to be. Not sure about how the opposition aspect affects Saturn in the 2nd. I have Saturn in the 2nd Gemini with Neptune opposite in my 8th.... so I'm not expecting to benefit from other people's finances in any way this life time. I also have Mars and Venus conjunct my Saturn in the 2nd, and I think they possibly help me to have 'enough' money for my needs. I've always been someone to have some savings in the bank, even when I was a student and I'm very good at saving money. I've never had a big ambition to be rich, but have been lucky in many ways as far as being exposed to people who are financially comfortable, and that in turn has meant I've never stressed a great deal about money.... but never say never! I've also never thought very far ahead as far as planning for when I can't work anymore ie, when i am older or if I get injured or invested any money.... maybe this is a Saturn thing.

I can totally relate to Nesher. I also have Saturn in the 2nd in Gemini (opposing both Neptune and Jupiter in the 8th). I also don't have any ambition to get rich, but I do need to have a bit of money in the bank, which somehow acts as a security blanket, even though it's only a small amount and yet, I have nothing set up for retirement and I'm not worried about it, either, which sometimes puzzles me.

Perhaps it's Jupiter in my 8th house which tells me it will all be alright? And if not, maybe it's my 8th house Neptune that's deluding me.