Did Aliens take flight 370

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
This post is written in hope that someone actually willing to answer the OP question may use their expertese to do so. I too am genuinely interesed whether the original question has been a factor in this disappearance.

For the record, just because linguistic graduates in the the media, who write for sensationalism, speculate that something is not true does not have any relation whatsoever to objective phenomena in the universe. There may be no proof that aliens exist but there is also no proof that aliens do not exist (and, no, I do not wish to get into a debate about it here). Thus casting the question as invalid on the assumption they do not exist is logically falacious.

As to horary being a method for definite questions and definite answers, this is a definite question. The OP has said they were not taking the issue for a joke. As for definite answers, there have been questions asking whether people have cast black magic spells on them and received a definite answer by those who have more definitive expertese in reading such charts.

If this is a learning, and not a debate, forum and posters are sceptical about the issue then it is a common courtesy to watch the thread and learn from those more experienced rather than turning the thread into a rediculing debate.
tsmall is a respected and authoritative member of our forum
and an experienced student of Horary astrology :smile:
so, taking your advice, let's learn from tsmall

tsmall stated

Regarding the chart...it really wouldn't matter if someone wanted to discover if aliens abducted the plane (although it does seem as if the news outlets are beginning to have evidence that the plane was hijacked); casting a horary chart for this type of event isn't the way to go. As has already been pointed out on several of the threads here at AW about the flight, as well as on the many, many other astrology forums out there.

Let's just use a bit of logic here.
Imagine that every astrologer decided at some point over the last several days to query the Universe and cast a chart about this plane.
How many charts, with how many ascendants, would we end up with?
Too many.

That is why we use an event chart for these matters,
as Zarathu has already done on another thread.

I personally am not in possession of enough time (I have other charts working) or interest, but if I did I would want to
look at the chart from the moment the flight took off, and possibly compare it to a chart for the moment the plane disappeared from radar.
Clearly then,
for reasons highlighted by an experienced Horary student astrologer
the question by the OP is not the way to go

The OP stated a desire to learn horary, and to use this chart to do so.
A mistake, for certain,
but having that pointed out is not a reason to abruptly pull out of a forum in a huff
after stating that believing in astrology was on par with believing in aliens
and choosing to decide his/her fellowship after the responses of two members.

I'm sorry, but that is the behavior of someone who is either too sensitive to be on a forum,
or someone who is looking to create trouble. Just my own opinion/experience
.

Lilly himself did at least once cast a chart to determine the fate of an overdue ship.
The difference between this
(and any other curiosity chart)
is
the the querent in that case had a vested interest in the ship
.

So in the case of the missing plane,
if a family member of one of the passengers or crew went to an astrologer to discover the fate of the flight,
that chart would be valid.
Otherwise. NO
.
The rules governing Horary
indicate that the OP question is not valid
for the reasons stated

 

Tessie

Banned
I respect tsmall's expertese as an astrologer. As far as I can understand her post stated her opinion from a specific vantage point, and did not claim the whole truth, the ultimate truth, world without end, amen.

I have my opinion. I know there are other astologers who support my opinion, that horary may answer an event question and that this is supported by evidence. Not everyone needs to or has to subscribe to rules your branch of horary stipulates.

I am not here to debate. I joined this thread in hoping to revert the derailing back to the original, seriously worded, question. I am interested in learning a possible way to approach it. You have said it cant be approached. I appreciate your input. Hopefully you can appreciate there exist alternative viewpoints and that the forum rules state they are allowed to be expressed.
 

tsmall

Premium Member
This post is written in hope that someone actually willing to answer the OP question may use their expertese to do so. I too am genuinely interesed whether the original question has been a factor in this disappearance.

It is only human to be genuinely interested in what happened to the plane and the people on board. As has already been pointed out multiple times, we don't get to ask horary questions for things in which we are genuinely interested yet in which we have no personal stake. That is why this question did not get attention from anyone with expertise in horary. It's not a valid question. And the validity of the question has absolutely nothing to do with aliens.

For the record, just because linguistic graduates in the the media, who write for sensationalism, speculate that something is not true does not have any relation whatsoever to objective phenomena in the universe. There may be no proof that aliens exist but there is also no proof that aliens do not exist (and, no, I do not wish to get into a debate about it here). Thus casting the question as invalid on the assumption they do not exist is logically falacious.

I did read all the posts, and I'm not sure I saw anything that really said the idea of aliens is logically fallacious. Personally I think it is hubris to believe that we are alone as the sole planet to host sentient beings in the Universe. That does not negate the learning idea that an horary question would not be valid in this instance.

To further learning. Not only do we not ask horary questions about world events simply because we are curious, we do not ask 3rd party questions simply because we have a burning desire to know something. Astrology doesn't work that way, it is not what it is for. You don't get to ask the Universe a personal horary question to see if your favorite icon is going to marry his current love affair. Because it is none of your business. Asking a question about the fate of a plane in which you do not have a personal, vested interest is also, in a nutshell...none of your business. That is why there is an hierarchy to charts. That horary falls at the bottom of the hierarchy ought to tell us something.

As to horary being a method for definite questions and definite answers, this is a definite question. The OP has said they were not taking the issue for a joke. As for definite answers, there have been questions asking whether people have cast black magic spells on them and received a definite answer by those who have more definitive expertise in reading such charts.

Regardless of whether or not one believes in black magic spells, those charts were cast by OP's who were asking about themselves; something deeply personal to them. That is why those who have more definitive expertise in reading such charts take the time to answer them. Because when someone asks a question from a place of personal need; when someone queries the Universe because there is no other way to get an answer to a problem/question that is keeping them up nights, then that is where horary comes in. It isn't a game. It isn't about idle curiosity.

If this is a learning, and not a debate, forum and posters are sceptical about the issue then it is a common courtesy to watch the thread and learn from those more experienced rather than turning the thread into a rediculing debate.

Having read the thread, no one ridiculed anyone. And debate is welcomed here. Sometimes debate leads to learning.
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Astrological considerations aside, it is unlikely that the plane was abducted by aliens or that it fell "out of dimension" (into a vortex), because satellites continued to receive signals from the plane for several hours after the transponder data was turned off: if the plane had been abducted by an alien craft or had gone "out of dimension", such signals would not have been received for so many hours after the disappearance.
 

Tessie

Banned
Astrological considerations aside, it is unlikely that the plane was abducted by aliens or that it fell "out of dimension" (into a vortex), because satellites continued to receive signals from the plane for several hours after the transponder data was turned off: if the plane had been abducted by an alien craft or had gone "out of dimension", such signals would not have been received for so many hours after the disappearance.

Why do you say that Dr. Farr, since entities from different dimensions have been reported to communicate, and, separately, I thought physicists could measure activity in different dimensions which is how they came to discover their existance?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Why do you say that Dr. Farr, since entities from different dimensions have been reported to communicate, and, separately, I thought physicists could measure activity in different dimensions which is how they came to discover their existance?

Yes, but their wavelengths are different from those we are tuned to pick up on Earth or with Earth-based satellites or conventional transmitters and receivers;and, no, conventional physics does not pick-up on activity in different dimensions using conventional physics measuring devices-they estimate about possible other dimensions vis a vis inferences they make from phenomena in this dimension; however, of course, NON-CONVENTIONAL measuirng, etc, regarding subtle energies and other dimensions, has been done, but these methods and their results are NOT accepted as valid by conventional (ie establishment) physics.
 

Tessie

Banned
Yes, but their wavelengths are different from those we are tuned to pick up on Earth or with Earth-based satellites or conventional transmitters and receivers;and, no, conventional physics does not pick-up on activity in different dimensions using conventional physics measuring devices-they estimate about possible other dimensions vis a vis inferences they make from phenomena in this dimension; however, of course, NON-CONVENTIONAL measuirng, etc, regarding subtle energies and other dimensions, has been done, but these methods and their results are NOT accepted as valid by conventional (ie establishment) physics.

Sure, thank you. Not to nitpick, but of course a plane transponder signal from a 4th/5th/6th dimension has never been tested by conventional physics to be ruled out completely. I know, it is heavily unlikely but this search sends people to leave no stone unturned (hence my clutching on straws).
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
I will say this: both in the horary chart I delineated (in the thread entitled, "Did they land in the sea?", and in the event chart (time of take-off) also discussed in that thread, Pluto has a major role (in opposition to plane/passenger significator Jupiter), and in the "last communication" chart (also in that thread) Pluto rises to the 1st house: now, Pluto can signify things like murder, plots, suicide, and (with Saturn and the South Node) is a leading significator for disappearances and vanishments; and I tend to think that these other indicators just mentioned are more likely to be involved here: however, Pluto is also the most important significator among the planets for "aliens", so, maybe perhaps...:unsure:???
 

Tessie

Banned
Ok.

Can you answer the question for the OP? Can you show, for learning purposes, how to go about answering this question?

No.

I will say this: both in the horary chart I delineated (in the thread entitled, "Did they land in the sea?", and in the event chart (time of take-off) also discussed in that thread, Pluto has a major role (in opposition to plane/passenger significator Jupiter), and in the "last communication" chart (also in that thread) Pluto rises to the 1st house: now, Pluto can signify things like murder, plots, suicide, and (with Saturn and the South Node) is a leading significator for disappearances and vanishments; and I tend to think that these other indicators just mentioned are more likely to be involved here: however, Pluto is also the most important significator among the planets for "aliens", so, maybe perhaps...:unsure:???

Thank you, Dr. Farr.
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
Why do you say that Dr. Farr, since entities from different dimensions have been reported to communicate, and, separately, I thought physicists could measure activity in different dimensions which is how they came to discover their existance?

No, Tessie. Its all fanciful mathematics. Its in the realm of never being able to be tested in reality.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I respect tsmall's expertise as an astrologer.
As far as I can understand her post stated her opinion from a specific vantage point, and did not claim the whole truth, the ultimate truth, world without end, amen.

I have my opinion. I know there are other astrologers who support my opinion, that horary may answer an event question and that this is supported by evidence. Not everyone needs to or has to subscribe to rules your branch of horary stipulates.

I am not here to debate. I joined this thread in hoping to revert the derailing back to the original, seriously worded, question. I am interested in learning a possible way to approach it. You have said it cant be approached. I appreciate your input. Hopefully you can appreciate there exist alternative viewpoints and that the forum rules state they are allowed to be expressed
.
The OP was not de-rariled
the OP may well have been serious
but
because forum rules cannot supersede Horary delineation rules
then
although we are all stating our opinions
none of those opinions can answer the OP
because
as already indicated
Horary rules clearly show that the OP's question is void
and not derailed
for the following reasons
It is only human to be genuinely interested in what happened to the plane and the people on board.
As has already been pointed out multiple times,
we don't get to ask horary questions for things in which we are genuinely interested yet in which we have no personal stake.

That is why this question did not get attention from anyone with expertise in horary.
It's not a valid question.
And the validity of the question has absolutely nothing to do with aliens.


I did read all the posts, and I'm not sure I saw anything that really said the idea of aliens is logically fallacious. Personally I think it is hubris to believe that we are alone as the sole planet to host sentient beings in the Universe. That does not negate the learning idea that an horary question would not be valid in this instance.

To further learning.

Not only do we not ask horary questions about world events simply because we are curious,

we do not ask 3rd party questions simply because we have a burning desire to know something.


Astrology doesn't work that way, it is not what it is for.

You don't get to ask the Universe a personal horary question to see if your favorite icon is going to marry his current love affair.


Because it is none of your business.


Asking a question about the fate of a plane in which you do not have a personal, vested interest is also, in a nutshell...none of your business.


That is why there is an hierarchy to charts.


That horary falls at the bottom of the hierarchy ought to tell us something.

Regardless of whether or not one believes in black magic spells, those charts were cast by OP's who were asking about themselves; something deeply personal to them. That is why those who have more definitive expertise in reading such charts take the time to answer them. Because when someone asks a question from a place of personal need; when someone queries the Universe because there is no other way to get an answer to a problem/question that is keeping them up nights, then that is where horary comes in. It isn't a game. It isn't about idle curiosity.

Having read the thread, no one ridiculed anyone. And debate is welcomed here. Sometimes debate leads to learning
.
tsmall has explained multiple times that the OP question is invalid
and if nothing else
this thread serves the purpose of teaching that important fact
to those of us who are inexperienced regarding Horary astrology


Astrological considerations aside, it is unlikely that the plane was abducted by aliens or that it fell "out of dimension" (into a vortex),

because satellites continued to receive signals from the plane for several hours after the transponder data was turned off:

if the plane had been abducted by an alien craft

or had gone "out of dimension",

such signals would not have been received for so many hours after the disappearance.
Thank you dr. farr

Sure, thank you. Not to nitpick, but of course a plane transponder signal from a 4th/5th/6th dimension has never been tested by conventional physics to be ruled out completely. I know, it is heavily unlikely but this search sends people to leave no stone unturned (hence my clutching on straws).
Clutching at straws from other dimensions
is interesting
but implausible
and furthermore unverifiable
so


theoretical physics in this instance is not contributing to Horary delineation of the OP's question
and
therefore not helpful regarding the Horary learning experience
desired by the OP
Clearly this thread is an Hot Topic or General Chat thread discussion
concerning potential Alien Abduction to possibly 'another dimension'
because

The existence of 'other dimensions' is inferred
yet unproven
i.e.
the world of theoretical physics is theoretical
so
physicists cannot provide the answer regarding the existence of 'other dimensions'

IF flight is the object of Alien abduction to another dimension
Neither can Horary IN THIS PARTICULAR CASE because

the question is void for the reasons given
 

tikana

Well-known member
will most of you start using common sense?
you have a plane that is
Wing Span 199 ft 11 in (60.9 m)
Overall Length 209 ft 1 in (63.7 m)
Tail Height 60 ft 9 in (18.5 m)
Interior Cabin Width 19 ft 3 in (5.86 m)
Diameter 20 ft 4 in (6.19 m)

vanished without a trace...and someone is asking if aliens took it. Lets just say it is possible... ask yourselves how big an alien ship has to be pick up Boeing 777 with passengers AND weight?! *sarcastically* shockingly not a single satellite picked anything up! There are approximately 3000 satellites orbiting the Earth at any given time fyi and btw.
 
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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
QUOTE


'…..Circumstantial evidence indicates that more than one person hijacked MH 370.
At least one of them would have to have known how to fly the Boeing 777-200,
turn off the the plane’s data reporting system at 1:07 am and the transponder at 1:21 am
and take advantage of regional radar vulnerabilities.


Other individuals would have to have controlled the passengers
or executed them to prevent someone from using their cell phone.
I do not believe the airplane was hijacked just to crash it
because there would be no point to continue flying it for four hours.....' leatherman blog


CNN reports:

James Kallstrom, a former FBI assistant director,
said it’s possible the plane could have landed,
though he added that more information is needed to reach a definitive conclusion.
He referred to the vast search area.
“You draw that arc and you look at countries like Pakistan, you know,
and you get into your Superman novels
and you see the plane landing somewhere
and (people) repurposing it for some dastardly deed down the road,”
he told CNN’s Jake Tapper on Thursday.

“I mean, that’s not beyond the realm of realism. I mean, that could happen.”


 

Birch Dragon

Well-known member
Why do you say that Dr. Farr, since entities from different dimensions have been reported to communicate, and, separately, I thought physicists could measure activity in different dimensions which is how they came to discover their existance?

When physicists speak of spatial dimensions beyond the 3 we're familiar with they're not talking about other realms where other sentient beings can live. They are talking another very, very, very, very small spaces. A version of String Theory requires at least 11 dimensions for the math to work, but those other 8 dimensions are thought to be at the quantum level - sub-atomic! And again there's no empirical support for this. It's just what the math demands if the math is going to work.
So no, from within the realm of science at least, there is no measuring of activity in different dimensions and no reporting of communication with entities of other dimensions.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
UPDATE :smile:

ACCORDING TO GREEK MEDIA REPORTS



'…...Crew on Greek flagged oil tanker are responding to radio reports of suit cases floating in Straits of Malacca, between Malaysia and Indonesia.

Oil and chemical tanker, Elka Athina, reported to media it was steaming toward zone identified as field of debris,
including what appeared to be aircraft passenger's luggage.
Crew responding to report from Indonesian source, according to translation of report on two articles published Sunday afternoon Greek time.
Report unconfirmed by any other sources, however one Greek website posted audio interview with Elka Athina's first officer confirming ship headed to area after report of suit cases floating in northern waters of the Malacca Strait......'




'…..There have been several false sightings of debris since Malaysian Airlines Flight 370 went missing over a week ago
including Chinese satellite image of debris in south China Sea and reports of oil slick off Vietnam.
All proved unrelated to the missing 777-200.



Update: It appears a Reddit user found images of possible wreckage at exact location of Greek report in the Malacca Strait. Image of debris field was seen on high resolution satellite images provided by US firm attempting to find missing 777-200.


The area is also about the same point where Malaysia last lost verifiable data on the location of MH370 on Saturday, March 8 2014......'
 

Tessie

Banned
Vis a vis the above posts, JA and tsmall, both of you have cast judgements about the OP/invalidity of the chart when neither of you know the possible personal connection between the OP and aliens or OP and the flight, or OP and the affected families. Yours is the only idle speculation and hubris I see happening, sadly.

tikana, common sense says that since aliens are not humans, their motivations/operations/movements/craft should not be judged by human or human-made standards.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Vis a vis the above posts,
JA and tsmall, both of you have cast judgements about the OP/invalidity of the chart
when neither of you know the possible personal connection between the OP and aliens
or OP and the flight,
or OP and the affected families.
Yours is the only idle speculation and hubris I see happening,
sadly
.
Sadly
because a tragedy affecting the lives of more than two hundred missing people, their families and friends
thus far remains an unsolved event
and those families have no closure


and

Unless the OP has told you of such a connection
then you yourself are indulging in idle speculation regarding
'the possible personal connection between the OP and aliens
or OP and the flight,
or OP and the affected families'

FURTHERMORE

IF
the OP were seriously asking a serious question
and 'had a personal connection with the flight/affected families/aliens who abducted the flight'
THEN
the OP would have stated that connection
when the rules of Horary were explained clearly to the
m :smile:

but
since the OP claimed no such connection
then no connection may be inferred

because
if the OP was serious
and seriously wanted an Horary learning experience as was claimed

and

seriously 'had a personal connection with the flight/affected families/aliens who abducted the flight'

then
in order to find answers to their question
the OP would have verified such connection

but the OP did not
so
it is yourself who is speculating

tsmall and others are simply commenting on information provided by the OP
i.e.
that the OP
had an interest to have an Horary learning experience


 

tsmall

Premium Member
Vis a vis the above posts, JA and tsmall, both of you have cast judgements about the OP/invalidity of the chart when neither of you know the possible personal connection between the OP and aliens or OP and the flight, or OP and the affected families. Yours is the only idle speculation and hubris I see happening, sadly.

No. That is inaccurate and misleading. The OP was very clear about what motivated him to cast this chart.

One question that has been ,in the thread about Flight 370 landing in the sea, is whether the flight had been abducted by aliens.

[deleted astrological analysis since the answer is impossible to verify one way or another - and it leads naturally to the sort of discussion below - Moderator]

Mysteries are great, but what I want to learn is how to use horary to arrive at correct answers. My question is an exercise in learning.

In real terms, you are quite right, prayers indeed for those poor folk and their families.

Looking at the chart at the beginning of the 'Are they in the water' thread, the answer would seem to be 'Yes.' But it is also a very likely answer, so how do we know we are not making patterns to fit what we have already consciously extrapolated?

I wished to test an unlikely - but not impossible - hypothesis with the same attention, see what comes up when we are not dealing with the probable or the expected. What do the planets actually tell us?

In this, there is no disrespect meant in the face of tragedy. Nor is there a desire to make the subject seem absurd.


It is quite evident that the OP had no personal stake in this chart. And no where in my replies was I derogatory nor full of hubris or idle specultation. We have already established that you have not studied horary astrology. That the question is not valid is not my opinion, anymore than that a chart requires an ASC is my opinion. It is a long-held horary truism that you don't ask horary questions in these instances. Don't take my word for it (since obviously you don't want to anyway) look into it for yourself. Go see what Houlding would do? Or Lilly. Or Bonatti, or Sahl or Masha'Allah or any of a hundred other astrologers. And if those are not good enough, how about our very own Zarathu?

HORARY doesn't just answer any question, there are specific requirements of the question.

And the question is a kind of birth chart. Each question is a pregnant moment in time like just like your birth. You cannot be born more than once in the same body without dying in between. This is how astrology works. Its based on birth times that are singular for the person, the corporation, the event, and the question.

If the question can be asked by a multiple numbers of people, then it means that the question will have multiple birth times. We understand as professional astrologers that a time difference of as much a 10 minutes can make the diagnostic of the chart totally wrong. What about multiple birth times for the question over day and weeks? Which question is the correct one???

Think this through. Horary Questions are the same as a birth times for a human being; that's why they work.

The question has to be something very very special to the person who asks it, and it has to be a question that no one else would ask.

This is the way Horary works. Otherwise there would be multiple birth times for the same item, which is simply not allowed anywhere in astrology. Having multiple birth times for a question negates the validation of birth times for all of astrology.

What is required in these cases is called forensic astrology; and for that you need an event chart. Not a horary chart. And that is all I have said. The OP wanted to learn. The lesson is that this is not the right chart for the circumstances. It's like...reading the stock market reports because you want to know if it will snow.
 
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