Chart of my friend who committed suicide

AuntiePatricia

New member
Transits the day of her passing: Wow, very troubling...

Tr Saturn conjunct Pluto
Tr Pluto opposite Saturn
Tr Pluto square Pluto
Tr Jupiter square Pluto
Tr Saturn square Saturn
Tr Mars square Mars

vista, i am so sorry about your friend.

i think the chart communicates suicide eloquently... unfortunately.
i have often found reciprocal connections at very important times...
here you have saturn and pluto in the natal, by transit to one another...
all very exact. no 'orbs' here... exact contacts. when planets are that exact, things happen. that is one of the most intense double/ triple/ quadruple whammies i've ever seen.

i am assuming she had a hospital birth. they say a lot of women become very depressed after birth in the USA because they are forced into situations they did not want. they are drugged, cut, the child is dragged out of the mother, labor is 'induced' to the point of distress for both mother and child. if she had a hospital birth, i suspect she may have been overpowered and overwhelmed in this way and was not just depressed but also suffering PTSD due to the medical treatment.

and if she was 'depressed' (such an unfortunate box, for most people who are 'depressed' are justifiably SAD and maybe even ANGRY) then usually 'depressed' people are prescribed SSRIs, antidepressants, which have caused a lot of people to commit violent acts against themselves and others... many, many unfortunate murders and suicides including the school shootings and other mass murders.

someone was asking about neptune... drugs at the time of birth and/or anti-depressants... doctors say, 'we did everything we could' when they have used both drugs and knives. but they may have forgotten about love. doctors are fixers of broken bones and should not be allowed near births. i am writing a book on the subject and it is a very sad subject indeed... railroading mothers into 'birth as a medical emergency' results in feelings of helplessness & hopelessness when birth should be the most joyous, ecstatic, empowering time in a woman's life. most unfortunate.

i am so sorry about your friend, vista.
 

Vista

Well-known member
This reminds me of my kids - one a nightmare, always in trouble with authorities, so he got all the attention, although it was no doubt the wrong kind of attention. When child #2 was born, my mothering energy was always focused upon the older one, but mainly to do with: `what chaos will he create today??' My younger son learned to be `good' and to achieve. Both children were reacting to a deficit in emotional nurturing, and in their own ways, each were acting out the very emotions that I was suppressing............. nobody does this better than someone with Pisces Moon..
[On that note, perhaps your friend who suicided was actually acting out something which she `picked up' in her mother, but about which her mother was in denial. The burden of doing this can be overwhelming indeed. This is quite common for those with water-sign moons, but especially with Pisces.]

I'm glad to have provided you with an avenue for more learning.

I had always found Pisces Moon to be an elusive energy - and I still do. They are so darned deep that you need major mining equipment to get inside them!! And they don't really talk about their feelings, even when they are female - but they do act them out.



It is very interesting how both your boys acted out these energies in very different ways. I am not surprised as we all have different coping mechanisms.

I always thought that Piscies Moon people talked about their feelings, but the more that I have been looking into it, it seems that this is not the case at all. And elusive, yes they certainly are. My experience with Piscies personal planets is that they can be extremely wishy washy. Drives me crazy! And as you have stated, they certainly do act them out.
 

Vista

Well-known member
I am sorry to hear your sad story about your friend.

This thread interested me because I, too, am going through similar combination (involving tr Saturn opp Saturn, tr Saturn sq Asc, tr Pluto conj Asc, tr Pluto sq Saturn, tr Mars in the 8th H, natally have moon sq venus) and finding very tough and not sure if I'm going to pull through.... especially around 10th July 2010; looks like a checkmate (Uranuses and Mars come into play and pr Sun on Algol) to me :pinched:

I don't think it's been mentioned yet but having Moon at 29th degree Pisces must be difficult as it is conjuct malefic fixed star Scheat (Imprisonment, murder, suicide, drowning, extreme misfortune) :pinched:

Hi Tora,
Thank you for replying. I didn't know that Moon at the 29th degree of Piscies is conjunct Scheat. I am not familiar with that star. I will have to read more about it.

Please try and hang in there and know that this will pass. As I stated above, suicide is a permanent solution to a temporary problem.
Robert Hand once told me that even with challenging transits a positive outcome can very likely happen, it just takes more effort to get there. Don't give up!!
Vista
 

Vista

Well-known member
vista, i am so sorry about your friend.

i think the chart communicates suicide eloquently... unfortunately.
i have often found reciprocal connections at very important times...
here you have saturn and pluto in the natal, by transit to one another...
all very exact. no 'orbs' here... exact contacts. when planets are that exact, things happen. that is one of the most intense double/ triple/ quadruple whammies i've ever seen.

i am assuming she had a hospital birth. they say a lot of women become very depressed after birth in the USA because they are forced into situations they did not want. they are drugged, cut, the child is dragged out of the mother, labor is 'induced' to the point of distress for both mother and child. if she had a hospital birth, i suspect she may have been overpowered and overwhelmed in this way and was not just depressed but also suffering PTSD due to the medical treatment.

and if she was 'depressed' (such an unfortunate box, for most people who are 'depressed' are justifiably SAD and maybe even ANGRY) then usually 'depressed' people are prescribed SSRIs, antidepressants, which have caused a lot of people to commit violent acts against themselves and others... many, many unfortunate murders and suicides including the school shootings and other mass murders.

someone was asking about neptune... drugs at the time of birth and/or anti-depressants... doctors say, 'we did everything we could' when they have used both drugs and knives. but they may have forgotten about love. doctors are fixers of broken bones and should not be allowed near births. i am writing a book on the subject and it is a very sad subject indeed... railroading mothers into 'birth as a medical emergency' results in feelings of helplessness & hopelessness when birth should be the most joyous, ecstatic, empowering time in a woman's life. most unfortunate.

i am so sorry about your friend, vista.



Hi AuntiPatricia,

When I first looked at her chart on the day of her death I was floored at what was going on with her transit wise and quite frankly, not surprised she committed suicide. I don't know what kind of medication she was prescribed, but I am assuming anti depressants were on the list, and she did have a hospital birth. She must have hidden the severity of her depression to a certain degree otherwise they would have had her committed to a hospital for suicide watch. I assume the day she died must have been cataclysm of emotions involving hopelessness or perhaps worthlessness as a wife and mother. She probably felt that everyone was better off without her in their lives.

I like your theory about Post Partum Depression and it being associated with the trauma of birth, being cut and drugged. I will be curious about your book when it’s published.

Thank you for posting, I appreciate it!
Vista
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I'll just add my bit about fixed stars. I am not in any way convinced that fixed stars have any kind of personal involvement for us, although perhaps their mundane involvement needs to be taken into account:

http://funkastrology.co.uk/?p=1132

I once had a guy who is much older than me suggest that we as a species are evolving at a spiritual level quite quickly, and with this comes our ability to use the energies which surround us in ways which no longer disempower us. I read an article on the net about the influence of Scheat on the life of poet Percy Shelley. He had so many misfortunes befall him in his few years on earth - but that was 200 years ago, and Shelley may well have been a klutz!! I am of the belief that a conscious approach to life can help us overcome the challenges we face. I find all that doom & gloom fixed star stuff to be terribly Old Testament in tone. I believe that the power over our lives is not out of our hands in this way. I am quite perturbed by the modern suggestion that fixed stars close to natal planets (or the other way around) denotes disaster and mayhem. This is the stuff of traditional astrology, and its influence over modern individuals needs to be questioned. Sure, bad things happen, but we always have choices as to how we view the `bad things'.

Belief is a very powerful thing - I cannot stress that enough. And someone who is suicidal (and I have been there) feels that way, believes that this is the only option, because they believe that they have no other avenues for `escaping' their life situation. Humans have been giving their power over to other sources of `power' for centuries, and it's about time we brought our consciousness right back into our bodies, which is where it belongs. I could go on, but I won't.

This page gives a brief overview of some of the most well-known fixed stars:

http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html

Pardon my rant, but this has been building up for some time. I continue to pursue astrology for the same reasons as when I first began to look into it over 20 years ago - for the purpose of empowering myself and others (I have natal Chiron in Scoprio, so I consider personal empowerment to be fundamental to the business of wanting to live) and so I react very strongly when I read stuff which suggests that we're stuffed from the start.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I assume the day she died must have been cataclysm of emotions involving hopelessness or perhaps worthlessness as a wife and mother. She probably felt that everyone was better off without her in their lives.
Vista, I continue to be moved by the love you continue to express for your friend. I'm sure she knew she was loved, but the sentence above pretty much sums up where she probably was on that day, and at that very critical time astrologically. At the time when I was close to the edge (and at that time tr Pluto was squaring my Sun-Pluto conjunction, and conjunct my MSN in Scorp) I almost convinced myself that my loved ones would be better off without me. At that time, their love for me felt like such a burden - which is somewhat insane, really, as everyone needs to feel loved. The human mind can play such tricks with us.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
Tora, perhaps you need to re-read what I wrote. I was commenting upon the bringing in to the mix the `fated' influences of fixed stars, and questioning their influence on individuals.

Astrology is not a fated study - at least not how I do it. And I did mention that I had `been there', and so was aware of the kind of narrow thinking which overcomes a person who is close to stepping over the edge.

My post does not mention that one should `dance and be merry'. My post goes much deeper than that - into the psyche of the human race. We are daily told to place our power in what is external, and that is at the core of a lot of what ails us all. This is about more than how we think. It is about how and what and why we believe. And that is such a gigantic topic on its own, that I will go no further with this. Anyone who has been right to the edge and seen that suicide is the only option - and then has waited and eventually pulled back - these people can attest to belief being the difference between jumping and not jumping. (I'm not talking about religion, or positive thinking. I'm talking about something much, much deeper.)
 

AuntiePatricia

New member
vista, what i'd like to see are some others who were born the same day or month as your friend. i'd like to know what they were going through at the time and how they dealt with it.

not everyone born the same day as your friend had recently become a mother; not all of them committed suicide. i'd like to know if and how some navigated those saturn-pluto waters in a positive way.

lots of change and transformation, i'd think, for us ALL and especially for those born with saturn & pluto sq exactly at 4 degrees of the same cardinal signs... that has to be so rare... and my thrust in astrology is to determine the highest & best use of every energy.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
not everyone born the same day as your friend had recently become a mother; not all of them committed suicide. i'd like to know if and how some navigated those saturn-pluto waters in a positive way.

.
That is such a good point, AP.

Not only did Vista's friend have the life-long `issue' and resultant depression, but it is easy to forget the hormonal changes which occur soon after a child is born. This would have been one stress too many for her. A new-born is so in-your-face, and so present that there is no time to breath deeply and take time out. (For me, those 3 months immediately after the birth of each child were very, very strained for me. I think that I shut down so I would not feel anything - feelings can be frightening when they're so extreme.)
 

simplyinsight

Well-known member
My heart goes out to you, and my thoughts and prayers to you and her family that she leaves behind. A couple observations that I've made:

* Solar Eclipsed Natal 8th House Cusp, most recent Dec 31, 2009.
This same Solar Eclipse over Progressed Venus, close to her Progressed Ascendant. Progressed Venus is involved in a T-Square with Pluto and Saturn - this shows there was some sense of loss/isolation in the marriage, feeling alienated-- Venus in Capricorn is cold, chilled-to-the-bone... if it were elsewhere, I'd feel more confident that "love was rewarding" in such an Eclipsing. But even then, Transiting Pluto-Saturn Square configures as a "heavy influence" near all of that Progressed Venus/Progressed ASC action going on. You can't tell me there wasn't something awful going on that we didn't know about here.

* Lunar Eclipse Point was transited by Mercury on the day of passing. Transits to the Eclipse Points are triggers, particular more dramatic with Sun, Mars and Saturn. A "clue", a realization, a word was spoken, a letter left, a concluding remark... Squaring the Progressed Mars-Uranus Opposition. Ah, now we're getting a deeper story here of what needed to be "said".

* Secrets died that day - no one will fully uncover the mysteries until many years later, if pursued and answers are sought. Pluto transiting 12th.

* Mars Retrograded quite close to her Natal 8th House Cusp in December 2009. Tumultuous period between then and March 2010 (if she would have lived on to see the Direct motion and shadow period that lasted well into May 2010), as pent-up anger and frustration was turned inward, not towards the partner. I feel she needed to express herself, but was somehow blocked from the inside-out.

* Unstable home environment via Uranus transiting Natal Moon. This gives clues as to the environment, brings up old issues, makes for restless nights, random fights, completely "organized" home suddenly turning to complete and utter chaos, random.

* Transiting Mercury Squaring Progressed Mars (in Aries, of all places). Injuries involving cuts, on the day of passing. High speed driving, as well - would this rather have been an accident involving a car crash, had she not been so agoraphobic?? Is she agoraphobic or somehow stricken with paranoia much of the time that we're not all aware of, I'm picking up she was...? Also, natally promised such paranoia with Moon Opposing Pluto.

* Progressed Venus-Neptune Conjunction awfully close to being Transited by Jupiter. Did she suffer from a possible outside-of-the-marriage affair she was having? Am I not supposed to speak of these things?? Natally promised via Venus-Neptune Conjunction in 12th, with Jupiter Ruling this Conjunction in itself...

* Progressed Moon Opposing Jupiter recently - an addition to the conclusion above.

* Natally Venus/Neptune Sextiles Jupiter, forming Yod to Saturn in 7th House of Cancer. A joyous love for life and of others threatens the security and foundation of her family and married life. If she would have lived on, she would have been close to divorcing her husband.



Had this really been a possibility, as odd as it sounds, but I'm going with my gut and psychic instincts on this and just be bold and say it--- she could have rather finally had a full and free breaking with her past by letting the cat out of the bag here about her "secrets". This "scar" on the family left by what would have resulted in a divorce eventually, was instead transformed in to her leaving completely, a completely different "scar".

Mars in Aries becomes selfish (as suicide is a selfish act in itself), especially with the dramatic reactions and stories and inability to cooperate with others during this wild period of time (and what a long-term progression to have Retrograding Mars-to-Uranus like that!) It was Retrograding in its own sign, which is a slap in the face to the energy level of such a sign. It also, as I said before, opposed Progressed Uranus-- a need to be free from limitations. I highly doubt she was seeking to remain married for much longer. It's nothing the husband could have done, and he has to really take off the burden off his shoulders in that regard alone. In my opinion, it would have been just as messy. But, this is my opinion based on what I'm seeing. This selfish-ness had been building up for years, coming to a head on this particular date in history, as it combined with the other disappointments and poor decision-making along the way when it came to talking about her true feelings. Her natural reaction was to retreat from all sides. She died with her secrets, unless this is truly and deeply investigated further as to why she did this.

I know it's upsetting to hear these kinds of things-- but there is a story here that was unfolding. The upsetting part is: who has the time to truly go through each little aspect and say, "Hey, watch out! You might feel like killin' yourself this week!" -- It's just not possible. It's like searching for a needle in a haystack. The lesson learned is to see the potentials and the "themes" and treat them responsibly and directly AS THEY COME ALONG... not 10-15 years down the road.

The other thing too is: there are many, many ways people kill themselves or commit suicide and for a variety of reasons.

She has a Moon in Pisces in an Anaretic Degree- you cannot feel anymore burden inwardly than that alone. Her life was obviously plagued by the inability to speak her mind in a way that would be understood or well-received-- which is why we see also Progressed Moon Squaring Mercury near this time-- when it would have went exact, we would have probably seen the start of a marital separation of some kind, only to be "really rough" when Pluto caught up closer with her Progressed ASC and Progressed Venus.

Check the child's chart, please?? I am sure you can find signs that divorce was inevitable as well-- Sun Square Moon maybe?

If I'm WAY off base, I greatly, greatly apologize. I'm just seeing a story here -- and sorry if I'm repeating anyone who'd already seen this.

- SimplyInsight -
 
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Nexus7

Well-known member
This is not directly relevant, but I once read an account of a well-to-do and literate woman who recounted the story of her post-natal depression in a Sunday colour supp. No astrological details were given, of course, and the woman did not seem to understand where her depression came from in the least, apparently viewing it as completely irrational - so maybe,she had a lot of air in her chart - who knows. It was interesting to not, though, that she herself felt an overwhelming longing to be babied and coddled and held herself, whilst still discounting this is something incomprehensible that came out of the blue.

I would imagine that the sheer neediness of a baby and the 24-hour-a-day responsibility this must entail, could be bound to create something of a time bomb in someone who has experienced emotional deprivation themselves, in a owlrd thatmay be quite censorious of such 'selfish' neds emerging. It should not be forgotten,maybe, that a young mother may indeed require more care herself than is generally acknowledged
 

Vista

Well-known member
That is such a good point, AP.

Not only did Vista's friend have the life-long `issue' and resultant depression, but it is easy to forget the hormonal changes which occur soon after a child is born. This would have been one stress too many for her. A new-born is so in-your-face, and so present that there is no time to breath deeply and take time out. (For me, those 3 months immediately after the birth of each child were very, very strained for me. I think that I shut down so I would not feel anything - feelings can be frightening when they're so extreme.)

Yes this is a good point. I am curious too how others with the same birthday handled their stress as well. I wonder if this would be a good topic for a thread, that is people born with this birthdate? What do you think?
 

Vista

Well-known member
My heart goes out to you, and my thoughts and prayers to you and her family that she leaves behind. A couple observations that I've made:

* Solar Eclipsed Natal 8th House Cusp, most recent Dec 31, 2009. This same Solar Eclipse over Progressed Venus, close to her Progressed Ascendant. Progressed Venus is involved in a T-Square with Pluto and Saturn - this shows there was some sense of loss/isolation in the marriage, feeling alienated-- Venus in Capricorn is cold, chilled-to-the-bone... if it were elsewhere, I'd feel more confident that "love was rewarding" in such an Eclipsing. But even then, Transiting Pluto-Saturn Square configures as a "heavy influence" near all of that Progressed Venus/Progressed ASC action going on. You can't tell me there wasn't something awful going on that we didn't know about here.

* Lunar Eclipse Point was transited by Mercury on the day of passing. Transits to the Eclipse Points are triggers, particular more dramatic with Sun, Mars and Saturn. A "clue", a realization, a word was spoken, a letter left, a concluding remark... Squaring the Progressed Mars-Uranus Opposition. Ah, now we're getting a deeper story here of what needed to be "said".

* Secrets died that day - no one will fully uncover the mysteries until many years later, if pursued and answers are sought. Pluto transiting 12th.

* Mars Retrograded quite close to her Natal 8th House Cusp in December 2009. Tumultuous period between then and March 2010 (if she would have lived on to see the Direct motion and shadow period that lasted well into May 2010), as pent-up anger and frustration was turned inward, not towards the partner. I feel she needed to express herself, but was somehow blocked from the inside-out.

* Unstable home environment via Uranus transiting Natal Moon. This gives clues as to the environment, brings up old issues, makes for restless nights, random fights, completely "organized" home suddenly turning to complete and utter chaos, random.

* Transiting Mercury Squaring Progressed Mars (in Aries, of all places). Injuries involving cuts, on the day of passing. High speed driving, as well - would this rather have been an accident involving a car crash, had she not been so agoraphobic?? Is she agoraphobic or somehow stricken with paranoia much of the time that we're not all aware of, I'm picking up she was...? Also, natally promised such paranoia with Moon Opposing Pluto.

* Progressed Venus-Neptune Conjunction awfully close to being Transited by Jupiter. Did she suffer from a possible outside-of-the-marriage affair she was having? Am I not supposed to speak of these things?? Natally promised via Venus-Neptune Conjunction in 12th, with Jupiter Ruling this Conjunction in itself...

* Progressed Moon Opposing Jupiter recently - an addition to the conclusion above.

* Natally Venus/Neptune Sextiles Jupiter, forming Yod to Saturn in 7th House of Cancer. A joyous love for life and of others threatens the security and foundation of her family and married life. If she would have lived on, she would have been close to divorcing her husband.



Had this really been a possibility, as odd as it sounds, but I'm going with my gut and psychic instincts on this and just be bold and say it--- she could have rather finally had a full and free breaking with her past by letting the cat out of the bag here about her "secrets". This "scar" on the family left by what would have resulted in a divorce eventually, was instead transformed in to her leaving completely, a completely different "scar".

Mars in Aries becomes selfish (as suicide is a selfish act in itself), especially with the dramatic reactions and stories and inability to cooperate with others during this wild period of time (and what a long-term progression to have Retrograding Mars-to-Uranus like that!) It was Retrograding in its own sign, which is a slap in the face to the energy level of such a sign. It also, as I said before, opposed Progressed Uranus-- a need to be free from limitations. I highly doubt she was seeking to remain married for much longer. It's nothing the husband could have done, and he has to really take off the burden off his shoulders in that regard alone. In my opinion, it would have been just as messy. But, this is my opinion based on what I'm seeing. This selfish-ness had been building up for years, coming to a head on this particular date in history, as it combined with the other disappointments and poor decision-making along the way when it came to talking about her true feelings. Her natural reaction was to retreat from all sides. She died with her secrets, unless this is truly and deeply investigated further as to why she did this.

I know it's upsetting to hear these kinds of things-- but there is a story here that was unfolding. The upsetting part is: who has the time to truly go through each little aspect and say, "Hey, watch out! You might feel like killin' yourself this week!" -- It's just not possible. It's like searching for a needle in a haystack. The lesson learned is to see the potentials and the "themes" and treat them responsibly and directly AS THEY COME ALONG... not 10-15 years down the road.

The other thing too is: there are many, many ways people kill themselves or commit suicide and for a variety of reasons.

She has a Moon in Pisces in an Anaretic Degree- you cannot feel anymore burden inwardly than that alone. Her life was obviously plagued by the inability to speak her mind in a way that would be understood or well-received-- which is why we see also Progressed Moon Squaring Mercury near this time-- when it would have went exact, we would have probably seen the start of a marital separation of some kind, only to be "really rough" when Pluto caught up closer with her Progressed ASC and Progressed Venus.

Check the child's chart, please?? I am sure you can find signs that divorce was inevitable as well-- Sun Square Moon maybe?

If I'm WAY off base, I greatly, greatly apologize. I'm just seeing a story here -- and sorry if I'm repeating anyone who'd already seen this.

- SimplyInsight -

Hi SS,
Thank you for the indepth interpretation and the well wishes! Honestly, I have know idea what was going on in her marriage as I hadn't talked to her in quite some time. It would not surprise if she did simply because of her upbringing and history of depression. From an astrological standpoint, I can see from the natal aspects to her 7th house, coupled with Saturn being placed there, it would suggest many problems in this area, and possibly if she had lived, more than one marriage.

With regards to her child...I looked at her chart and right away I noticed Natal Pluto placed in the 4th house squared by 1st House Saturn. I wonder about this as it makes me curious if she could be subject to sexual abuse; someone much older like a grandfatherly person. I don't like seeing Pluto placed here. What's more, here 4th H ruler Jupiter is squaring her Sun and a wide opposition from Mars to Jupiter too. Obviously, problems surrounding the home life are very prevalent. I suppose Pluto in the 4th could also symbolize one parent not being present in their lives. To answer your other question, there isn't any aspects at all between the Sun and Moon. What i did notice however when comparing the babies chart to the mother is that they would have been extemely close had my friend lived. The was a Sun Moon conjunction and Sun Trine Moon between their charts for starters. Lots of other nice aspects between them too. Really just ashame...

Edit:
PS. Do you think she killed herself with a car crash verses overdosing on drugs? I didn't ask her husband when we spoke on the phone as he was crying his eyes out and didn't feel it was appropriate. I assumed an overdose, but I am not sure...Mars squaring Mars doing bodily harm, and Mars Tr Neptune and Jupiter squaring Neptune doing it with drugs. Pluto ruling the 12th and Neptune being placed there to me suggests this was a done behind closed doors. A lot of Tr planets placed in the 3rd house of cars/transportation; makes me wonder if she sat in the car and ran the engine until she was asphyxiated.
 
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StarReader

Well-known member
Dear Vista,

I am so very, very sorry to hear this sad news about your friend's suicide. This is so upsetting, it brought tears to my eyes. I am praying for her husband's and baby daughter's future. I pray that they will heal these intense wounds. Plus, I Pray for your Friends soul so that she can have peace. And lastly, I will pray for you and ask for your hurt and sadness to become understanding

And I am glad you started this thread as I believe that by understanding these things, we can better accept the situation.

So, what jumped out of this chart to me (as well as that mean natal T-square and its transits and that natal yod arrrr) was her natal sun oppose her natal Chrion – For more information on this - Liz Green wrote a good article called- Wounding and the will to live

... ‘’But Chiron lies at the interface between Saturn and the outer planets, and therefore mediates collective issues which impinge on and wound the individual. By its nature, Chiron's collective implications signify something collectively "unhealable", because the wound exists in the collective and is ancestral. By its nature, the Sun reflects each individual's sense of purpose and meaning in life, and these are intimately bound up with the will to live and to become oneself’’.

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm

And this seems to fit in what other good folk have said about her moon T-square and her relationship with her own mother. Plus it also makes me wonder if the birth or pregnancy was extra difficult in any way?

Plus, because of the link between your friend and her mother, and her recent childbirth, I thought I would look at what Ceres (growing (living)plants and motherly love) was doing at the time of her sad suicide. Her progressed Cerses is conjunct her transit Pluto which opposes her natal Saturn. I am not that good at interpretation but I suspect that this may have a connection.

Plus, one last thing, her natal Mars in stubborn Taurus is opposing her progressed Mercury (and natal Mercury). This could mean aggressive or argumentative discussions Or No communication because the person, or others, is not open to or does not seek the opinions or advice of others. But, either way it suggests a problem or absence in communication. So, maybe because of planetary placements, previous counselling did not work and get through her emotional layers and, when the time came,your friend felt she couldn’t communicate and seek the help and understanding that she so desperately needed.

These are just a few opinions. I hope they help. My prays are with you all.

P.S - i think Sunny had a good idea
‘’ One day, I think you can talk with her husband and that would be certainly a good medication for him.’’
 

gemini59

Well-known member
I am not sure I can say much more. This connection to her 8th house cusp is telling.
* Solar Eclipsed Natal 8th House Cusp, most recent Dec 31, 2009. This same Solar Eclipse over Progressed Venus, close to her Progressed Ascendant. Progressed Venus is involved in a T-Square with Pluto and Saturn - this shows there was some sense of loss/isolation in the marriage, feeling alienated-- Venus in Capricorn is cold, chilled-to-the-bone... if it were elsewhere, I'd feel more confident that "love was rewarding" in such an Eclipsing. But even then, Transiting Pluto-Saturn Square configures as a "heavy influence" near all of that Progressed Venus/Progressed ASC action going on. You can't tell me there wasn't something awful going on that we didn't know about here.

I can attest on the Pluto conjunction to natal saturn at the MC as I am going through this now and saturn squaring itself. Today for the first time in a long time I felt that suicidal ideation as the tension I feel between 'reality' and an up surge of uncontrollable emotion develops into a grid lock of too much structure and reality versus the desire to lash against it. This I am sure this will increase and finding coping mechanims now will help us all I am sure...

She actually has three yods
Saturn sextile mars to inconjunct neptune (ruler of the end of life)
Pulto sextile neptune to inconjunct mars
Neptune sextile Jupiter inconjunct saturn.
Inconjunctions imply tension and adjustment.
The Pluto to Neptune to inconjunct mars is in and of itself a tendency to self destruct. Neptune hidden in the 12th may represent delusions repressed or also a repression too of dissolved boundaries.
The challenged she faced in progressions and transits were tremendous.
I will try to upload her solar return for the year.


 

gemini59

Well-known member
I pulled up her solar return beginning 2009...most interesting.. I am sure things will be clear...
Her 9th natal house is rising indicating a focus on higher mind ...we see mercury, saturn and venus in the first =minor child, loved one and responsibility and or restriction.
Most noticable is the moon in the 10th house. The moon is conjunct her natal Saturn and opposite Pluto in her 4th house
We also see a repeating formation from her natal chart...the yod to mars...neptune and jupiter involved. Her 8th house is ruled by mars in the solar return.
Her first house is in the 4th end of life...
 

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gemini59

Well-known member
I forgot to add how much I feel for those left behind. But I know too how she must have felt and it is a terrible emotional place to be. You do not feel you can turn to others as there is a basic feeling of alienation with self and others that is at the core. And you push others away too so it is a spiral downward.

To all of us that are struggling...try to take this tension in some safe expression...writing, exercise, meditation, contemplation...
 

Vista

Well-known member
Dear Vista,

I am so very, very sorry to hear this sad news about your friend's suicide. This is so upsetting, it brought tears to my eyes. I am praying for her husband's and baby daughter's future. I pray that they will heal these intense wounds. Plus, I Pray for your Friends soul so that she can have peace. And lastly, I will pray for you and ask for your hurt and sadness to become understanding

And I am glad you started this thread as I believe that by understanding these things, we can better accept the situation.

So, what jumped out of this chart to me (as well as that mean natal T-square and its transits and that natal yod arrrr) was her natal sun oppose her natal Chrion – For more information on this - Liz Green wrote a good article called- Wounding and the will to live

... ‘’But Chiron lies at the interface between Saturn and the outer planets, and therefore mediates collective issues which impinge on and wound the individual. By its nature, Chiron's collective implications signify something collectively "unhealable", because the wound exists in the collective and is ancestral. By its nature, the Sun reflects each individual's sense of purpose and meaning in life, and these are intimately bound up with the will to live and to become oneself’’.

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm

And this seems to fit in what other good folk have said about her moon T-square and her relationship with her own mother. Plus it also makes me wonder if the birth or pregnancy was extra difficult in any way?

Plus, because of the link between your friend and her mother, and her recent childbirth, I thought I would look at what Ceres (growing (living)plants and motherly love) was doing at the time of her sad suicide. Her progressed Cerses is conjunct her transit Pluto which opposes her natal Saturn. I am not that good at interpretation but I suspect that this may have a connection.

Plus, one last thing, her natal Mars in stubborn Taurus is opposing her progressed Mercury (and natal Mercury). This could mean aggressive or argumentative discussions Or No communication because the person, or others, is not open to or does not seek the opinions or advice of others. But, either way it suggests a problem or absence in communication. So, maybe because of planetary placements, previous counselling did not work and get through her emotional layers and, when the time came,your friend felt she couldn’t communicate and seek the help and understanding that she so desperately needed.

These are just a few opinions. I hope they help. My prays are with you all.

P.S - i think Sunny had a good idea
‘’ One day, I think you can talk with her husband and that would be certainly a good medication for him.’’

Hi StarReader,
Thank you kindly for the interpretation and warm thoughts. You have given me a lot to think about, things I will remember when i see them in others charts. I think I will read more about Chiron. I have a book the is entirely about Chiron...I think i will pull it out.
Thank you again!
Vista
 

Vista

Well-known member
I pulled up her solar return beginning 2009...most interesting.. I am sure things will be clear...
Her 9th natal house is rising indicating a focus on higher mind ...we see mercury, saturn and venus in the first =minor child, loved one and responsibility and or restriction.
Most noticable is the moon in the 10th house. The moon is conjunct her natal Saturn and opposite Pluto in her 4th house
We also see a repeating formation from her natal chart...the yod to mars...neptune and jupiter involved. Her 8th house is ruled by mars in the solar return.
Her first house is in the 4th end of life...

Hi Gemini59,
Thank you so much for posting her Solar Return. Wow, i see what you mean! This is one of the most active charts I have seen. I have always wondered how important incunjuncts are. The Solar Moon conjunt natal Saturn oppostion natal Pluto is pretty heavy. And you are right about depression, in many instances people do feel they have anyone to turn and the only alternative(in their mind) is suicide.
 
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