Depression

Has anyone here studied charts of people that suffer from depression? There are different types of depression, of course. Some more severe than others. This is my boyfriend's chart below. His depression is so severe that it makes him reclusive. He shuts out all contact from the outside world, and doesn't leave his apartment. Sometimes it lasts a day or two and sometimes it lasts a lot longer. He suffers from an extreme low self-esteem, as well. I'm not sure what, in his chart, would show this. I do know that we are both getting through Tr. Saturn conjunct N. Moon. (His at 6 degrees, mine at 5.)

Thanks for any input.

Lori

Hi, Lorielle

I've been looking at your boyfriend's chart, trying to figure out what similarities I could find with my own (I also have chronic severe depression), but I really don't see any. I would really like a few of the senior people to take up your question, because people with depression suffer so terribly. It's a really important issue. Depression blights realtionships, achievement, children's early lives, etc.

I'm sure you know that traditionally Capricorns are prone to depression. I am a quadruple Cancer,sun,moon,merc and venus. Both signs are driven towards the attainment of security, one emotional, one material/social. That's the only similarity I see.

Thank you, Francesca for taking a look. I've been looking online for some different things, trying to see if there are any articles. I take medication for depression and it seems to be regulated pretty good. But he finds little help from anti-depressants. It does blight relationships, he shuts out everyone that he cares about and who cares about him, family included. His mother suggested that he think about going on disability, because it affects his working out in the world.

Wait aminute!

I just looked at your other post- it says both moon and saturn govern depression. Your BF has major oppositions to both.
My moon is square my neptune, and sat is conj pluto and square jupiter which is prominent. At least a beginning, eh?

I also have Moon opposite my Jupiter/Saturn conjunction in the 12th. It's an out of sign opposition, Jupiter/Saturn at 26 Capricorn and Moon at 5 Leo. Across the 12th/6th house axis. I think we're on to something here.

I am a quadruple Cancer,sun,moon,merc and venus.

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This is interesting, as I have an identical configuration of planets/luminaries in Aries...I wonder if an emphasis of personal planets in a particular sign would incline a person towards depression?

Arian Maverick

Not sure. Interesting thought. My Mercury, Sun, Moon, and Venus are all in different signs. In your chart, what does Saturn do with those personal planets?

In your chart, what does Saturn do with those personal planets?

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My tenth house stellium of outer planets in Capricorn (including a Saturn-Neptune conjunction and Uranus) forms a massive series of square aspects to my first house stellium in Aries.

Here are some articles I have encountered throughout my studies that may be of interest to you:

Astrology and Spiritual Emergencies

Dealing With Depression in Vedic Astrology

Helpful Observations: Thoughts on Depression

Black Moon Rising: Depression as Symptomatic of Creative States

The Phenomenological Experience of Depression

Arian Maverick

Oh wow! Thank you for those.

No problem...I also forgot to recommend some past threads such as: Depression Question,
Is mental illness obvious in a chart???, and OCD and Trichotillomania

Arian Maverick

Hi Lorielle,
Everybody suffers from 'feeling a bit down now and then', but 'depression', as a dis-ease (and being rated as above heart complaints in my country nowadays!) is the territory of Saturn. Whether it's mental, emotional and/or psychological depression obviously depends upon the aspects it makes in the natal chart,which can also provide information regarding the 'type' of depression encountered.

Your boyfriend's chart shows a particularly vicious T-square configuration with Saturn-Chiron in Pisces opposing the generational Uranus-Pluto conjunction in Virgo in the 8th house, with Jupiter in Gemini (mentality) in the 6th house at the apex. Saturn is not only ruler of his Ascendant but also dispositor of his 1st house Sun. Mercury (ruler 6th house) in Capricorn is rising in the 12th house. This could all imply a tendency towards mental conflict, but with Pluto in the 8th house it takes on a deeply troubling Msychological nature with which he struggles, yet may not be able to consciously control (Saturn applying to Pluto). It could seem as if he comes up against a brick wall blocking his ability to function normally (Virgo), which he may also feel occurs in his life in general. Saturn-Chiron in Pisces could well be represeantive of his reclusive side, shutting himself away when life becomes too tough to handle.
Mercury from the 12th house also makes a quintile (72* aspect)to Saturn. It's considered a positive aspect towards spiritual awareness (Judy Hall). It could imply that he 'hears voices guiding him'.
His Leo Moon opposes Mars, so there could also be the emotional conflict of being under the influence of how others value him.
Capricorn generally bears the weights of the world upon its shoulders. With Mercury ( rulers shoulders) in Capricorn, he may take this too literally.

Just a few ideas.

F.

I'm a professional when it comes to depression. 5 planets in Capricorn prove it! BUT- take from one who knows- YOU CAN GET THROUGH IT.

As far as astrology - He's a Cap w Cap rising (world weary,and the face he presents to the world)-the news is NOT something he should watch.He may be highly susceptable to negative happenings in the world and internalize them. Saturn;s sextile to the sun makes it very easy for him to play this role of badluck schleprock, there is some comfort (not in a good way) or familiarity in maintaining this persona. His 2nd house is ruled by aqu, its midevel ruler being Saturn and He has Saturn in the second (low self esteem)but its conjunct chiron opposed pluto in the 8th. Overcoming this is almost like a life or death situation. Does he ever speak of suicide? There is the potential for it but also the potential for great transformation which must take place for him and there is help(chiron) , it can definitely be achieved.I believe, being Capricorn myself , that he may feel too much responsibility to be able to commit suicide however owing himself the path of healing however painful it may be. Venus in the second, creative and possibly values tied in with how much money he makes. I for one feel worthless if I am not making any money, I know its not right but its ingrained in me.(All that Cap +Moon Nep in 2nd in Scorp) venus in the second can be money coming through creativity, beauty, music or art or love of these things.

Then there's Merc in the 12th at 1 degree cap.Hmmmmm his thought process is very deep and thorough but not easily expessed. He has profound thoughts and can be profoundly depressed.This is where the shutin resides. I believe his north node in Gemini in the 5th contains the reprieve and might indicate that his path is to express himself in a witty yet unattached manner, possibly creative writing where the characters act out aspects of him coming to some sort of resolve, indirectly confronting his 12th house merc.

Nep & So Node in the 11th indicate that he may be flim flammed and/or dissapointed or dissallusioned with group activites or circle of friends, hes best in one on one situations, although he might find an individual through the group scene that can be a great source of inspiration and help (nep trine Chiron)but he must be careful not to idealise this and thus be again dissappointed. A sense of dettachement needs to be learned. Moon in the 7th his partnerships go through contiuous changes/ phases

I hope this helps!
~Robyn

the news is NOT something he should watch.He may be highly susceptable to negative happenings in the world and internalize them.

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He loves listening to the news and the political "cartoons" (as he calls them) on Sunday mornings. He lives in a large city with a lot of crime all around him and he talks of wanting to get out of there, but his depression seems to keep him "locked" in a place he doesn't want to be. Both literally and figuratively.

Overcoming this is almost like a life or death situation. Does he ever speak of suicide? There is the potential for it but also the potential for great transformation which must take place for him and there is help(chiron) , it can definitely be achieved.I believe, being Capricorn myself , that he may feel too much responsibility to be able to commit suicide however owing himself the path of healing however painful it may be.

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The fact that he is so depressed does scare me and I've talked to him about suicide. He swears that he is not suicidal... that it's something he would never do, because it goes against something that he is (normally) so strongly for... His profession (when he is working) is an RN. He tells me that it's his job to heal and he's seen too many botched suicide attempts to attempt it himself. (I suppose that's a good thing.) He takes on an almost animated quality when he speaks about his profession and when he's doing what he's good at.

Venus in the second, creative and possibly values tied in with how much money he makes. I for one feel worthless if I am not making any money, I know its not right but its ingrained in me.(All that Cap +Moon Nep in 2nd in Scorp) venus in the second can be money coming through creativity, beauty, music or art or love of these things.

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He's been off of work since October last year. Nurses are a high demand profession and living very near several large hospitals, and him having good work ethics and having a high GPA when he was in class, would make it easy for him to obtain a job. However, I feel like he's just "afraid" to go out there and get a job. So, this latest spiral downward has happened at a time when he is jobless, and feels no great sense of "belonging" or any self-worth.

His hobby is to play his guitar. Music is soothing to him. He wants to some day work on guitars, build them, fix them, etc. He could sit and play the guitar for hours upon hours. He likes to take them apart and find out what makes them work, and put them back together again.

might indicate that his path is to express himself in a witty yet unattached manner, possibly creative writing where the characters act out aspects of him coming to some sort of resolve, indirectly confronting his 12th house merc

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How interesting!!! I met him while we were all playing an online game called EverQuest. A group of us met nightly online and took on the persona of our characters. He was able to express himself through his character. Making us all laugh, and being so fun to be around. Everyone just loves him in game. He's said more than once that his character is an extension of him. So, his character does help him act out aspects of himself. Lately, we've grown bored with the game and have not played as much as we were.

hes best in one on one situations, although he might find an individual through the group scene that can be a great source of inspiration and help (nep trine Chiron)but he must be careful not to idealise this and thus be again dissappointed. A sense of dettachement needs to be learned. Moon in the 7th his partnerships go through contiuous changes/ phases

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We met in a group scene, through the game. We started just spending time together in game. Then he got my phone number and started calling me. Slowly at first. He's really opened up to me over the last year. He's told me that I know more about him than almost anyone else does. He knows how I feel about him and has repeatedly told me he has no idea what I see in him. He describes himself as being "broken." (Because of his depression.) He has been married one time. She left him for another man. She shattered his world and he has remained alone for 16 years. I know that the "well" side of him would come be with me in a heartbeat. It's the "not-well" side that keeps him in his apartment somewhere in the middle of St. Louis. 4 and a half hours south of me.

Of course, the Pisces in me wants to help him. Not so much to fix him but to be there for him. When he disappears, it's very hard for me to not take it personally. He's asked me to please not take it personally. That I'm what has kept him going this last year. Even his friends that live near him have commented that over the last year, he'd been getting so much better. That before, it was nothing for him to not only "disappear" for days, but months.

Ok, this is a lot longer than I intended... but thank you Robyn for your insightful and quite accurate picture of Andy.

And Frisiangel thank you also for your post. You are both so good at this.

Lori

Yo,Maverick!

I know you were asking about stelliums (which I think would just make traits and conflicts more intense) but I just looked at your chart and you have the squares of saturn that Lorielle and I were identifying with depression.

And wow, conflicts between Aries and Capricorn must be tough.

Thanks for the reading list.

I know you were asking about stelliums (which I think would just make traits and conflicts more intense) but I just looked at your chart and you have the squares of saturn that Lorielle and I were identifying with depression.

And wow, conflicts between Aries and Capricorn must be tough.

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Yes, but the scary thing is how well I actually relate to the dilemma represented by these two signs--duty and responsibilty vs. personal identity and expression.

The two planets most representative of this situation--the Sun and Saturn--are both quite comfortable within their respective signs; Saturn has essential as well as accidental dignity in my tenth house of Capricorn, and the Sun is exalted in my first house of Aries. Both are equally stubborn!

Arian Maverick

I would recommend that anyone suffering from depression seek help. Maybe you could see your doctor, and he or she could arrange for you to get counselling if necessary. It is curable.

Astrologically I have read that Saturn-Neptune-Pluto midpoint combinations can be associated with heavy emotional depression.

I realise that I am no expert here, but I'm sure that depression could be an issue if Saturn is in hard aspect to any of the following planets:

Moon
Venus
Jupiter
Neptune
Pluto

Significant placements of Chiron could also be possible indicators of depression.

Hope this helps. Good luck!

I can't find his chart -

But saturn square or in opposition to the moon or sun will cause depression.
I have fought it since I was five. You can look at progressions to see if an event(s) triggered it . For instance my sun conjunct mercury was forming an opposition to saturn which was exact when I was five years old. Old trauma can be helped with therapy. You can look at other aspects to see how to minimize the planets problem with saturn and also what may be contributing to it (to avoid).

If it is a chemical imbalance, he could try medication. Look at the influence of Neptune in his chart. It may be he cannot tolerate drugs if it has negative aspects. In that case try an herbal remedy. One protocol is St. John's Wort, magnesium citrate, B100, B12, and L Tyrosine.

If there are negative aspects to Neptune stay away from addictive substances. Often self esteem issues lead to substance abuse as a form of self medication. Again therapy is helpful.

He could also be infected with something. For instance Lyme disease is becoming more and more common. There are several different pathogens carried by ticks that wreck havoc on the body and mind. I am currently treating for one called Babesia - which causes loss of stamina, depression, air hunger, headaches and sweating. If he has any physical symptoms he could be infected with something - many of us were told "it is all in your mind". It wasn't. In my case this manifested when progressed ascendant was in opposition to Neptune (a misdiagnosed illness).

Look at the natal chart and then progressions to the natal chart. I use transits as trigger points.

Depression is a mental condition in which the victim/patient feels badly dejected. The victim feels that she/he is casual through aeon of black of her/his activity and the world is crushing him/her fully. Depression is a accompaniment of abysmal dejection and a common activity of helplessness, calm with aloofness and accident of self-esteem, causing amentia of anticipation and the physique functions.

Unfortunately i cannot see the chart u posted,but i can assure u that most people will go through a depressive spell when transiting Saturn passes over the natal Moon as u say u r both experiencing at the moment,and as u both have the moon conjunct each others it will be noticeably a very apparent shared experience,This could be very good as u are more accutely aware of his condition and identify with it more than others and consequently be more likely to seek a solution as u r presently doing.
As i am a person who has a very strong natal configuration that has a very similar depressive affect ,i recommend that u both work together to do what ever creative activity u love more than anything else.Avoid like the plague; alcohol,drugs,strong stimulants,and preferably avoid artificial props like anti depressants which wont solve the underlying problem but only mask it leaving it unresolved in any way and ultimately able to rear its ugly head again at a later date.I think it would be very irresponsible of me to say "dont take anti depressants" if the situation becomes life or death,if that ever becomes the case u have to.In fact i insist u follow the doctors advice irrespective of my opinion on anti depressants.As the tag on this section to do with medical conditions says,it is not an astrologers job to diagnose medically.
But seriously,'CREATIVITY' has been the only thing that worked for me.U admit that he has got more depressed since not working at his special talent,is there any way u can help him continue with his special ability?
is there no way back into the nursing profession for him or is it his own resistance i assume due to low self esteem due to losing job in 1st place? A circular dilemma?
Maybe its better to build a stronger stance 1st by starting with easier forms of creativity,back to 'Everquest' ?or better still playing the guitar,sing with him,applaud him,join him,love him whatever his condition.
Find reasons to go out together,preferably far from other people initially,Seek nature if u can,take the guitar,Have a picnic,The environment we continually live in becomes 'contaminated'; with our condition,we get recontaminated by being in it,maybe turn the place up side down,clean it as much as u can,change the furniture around,open the windows wide.We get uncontaminated getting out of it and refreshed.
The biggest effort should be to acknowledge u r stuck in a rut and the most important thing is to go against it no matter how hard it is to do by doing things like i have suggested.
I wish u well.

Sorry i cant help thinking of other suggestions that could help.
I find washing my body frequently makes a considerable positive difference.
If we are continually dirty as is common with people who are depressed,we are constantly reminded by our body odour of our condition and this leads to self loathing and revulsion which becomes worse when others notice and remind us as well.Please dont take this personally,thats not my intent,ive been there and just not bothered cleaning myself properly,its a vicious circle.
You dont mention if your relationship is intimate,if it is,i recommend u wash his body in the bath or shower ,preferably using visualisation techniques to wash away the dross from each other,and maybe he does the same for u in a fresh bath,u can be his 1st nursing patient.
Washing your clothes frequently and wearing clean clothes as often as possible,even new ones if you can afford them.
Sitting close to an open window in the day time and leaving it open at night when you sleep if its practical to do so,you may need extra bedding to keep warm,but its well worth the boost of breathing fresh air whilst you sleep as its incredibly invigorating ,many of depressed people sleep a lot as its a form of relief to escape into unconsciousness,but as we sleep 1/3 of our life approximately why not get some fresh air whilst we are doing it?
Maybe start a fitness regime,it doesnt need to be extreme,short jogs whilst your in the countryside together,by the sea even better,if u cant face going out how about an exercise bike? Making the metabolism move faster is a wonderfull booster.
Saturn and the moon are naturally opposed in the zodiac,the Moon and cancer are connected to the home and routine,Saturn/capricorn is connected to the career and consequently the outside world.As Saturn is superior to the Moon its not surprising that when Saturn transits the Moon we will tend to stay at home where we feel safe.but thats not neccessarilly the best place to be.
Fresh cut aromatic flowers in your open window wafting their wonderfull aroma into your home will vivify your space and also demonstrate your love for each other.
Finally,look at your transits,i guarantee that once Saturn moves away about 6 to 7 degrees from your moons it can only get better.
IT WILL GET BETTER.
http://www.infuzemag.com/Spiritual-Cleaning-One-Way-to-Better-Your-Aura.php