Ascendant Ruler in Detriment or Dignity

Night Sky

Well-known member
I am just wondering about what it means to have the Ascendant ruler placed in detriment or fall.

My theory is that a person with this debility will never be happy in themselves, with where they are or what they are doing.

I am just curious to see if it makes much difference whether you have Ascendant ruler in essential dignity or in essential debility?
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
Nightsky,

You wrote:

I am just wondering about what it means to have the Ascendant ruler placed in detriment or fall.

My theory is that a person with this debility will never be happy in themselves, with where they are or what they are doing.

I am just curious to see if it makes much difference whether you have Ascendant ruler in essential dignity or in essential debility?
Oh, please don't be so gloom and doom, Nightsky! I wouldn't say they would never be happy in themselves, etc. To me, it would mean that their lesson plan involved them having to work hard on overcoming it - a lot of emphasis on personal growth. So, I guess, if that person never got really serious about their personal growth, then they probably would always live a miserable life. But never say never!:rolleyes:

FL
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
It's an observation from more than more source. : )

I understand... but don't you think that sounds awful fatalistic? What would that do to a person if you were reading their chart, and told them that they would never have a happy life because their ascendant ruler is in bad shape?
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
So you are conceding now that I have point.

You wouldn't tell them the truth by all means.


But if they worked it out for themselves say... Create a support group for ascendant ruler placed in detriment. : )
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
NightSky,

You wrote:

So you are conceding now that I have point.

It's an observation from more than more source
(I think you meant to write "more than ONE source - not more -- A typo, I think)

I am saying that I believe you that you have received this information from several sources, and that you did not come up with this idea on your own.


You wouldn't tell them the truth by all means.
Well, I'm a Sagittarius with Sag Mercury, so that wouldn't work for me!:D

FL

P.S. However I did entirely agree you had a point on the SouthNode thread.;)
 
Last edited:

Night Sky

Well-known member
Thanks Freedom lover.

I would like to have some examples of people with detrimental Ascendant rulers... or Dignified ones, just to see the difference...


I am not discounting aspects to the Ascendant, nor the Sun, nor planets placed in the 1st. Only put out some thoughts... just to see what people would come up with.
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
NightSky,

You wrote:

I would like to have some examples of people with detrimental Ascendant rulers... or Dignified ones, just to see the difference...
Well, I would gladly offer mine, but my Ascendant ruler is Saturn in Pisces, which according to the guidelines on the "Saturn in dignity and debility" thread, is neither here nor there - just plain old average Saturn.:eek: (Unless anybody knows any different about Saturn in Pisces)

FL
 

Awakened_Pisces

Well-known member
I have Sun in ASC Leo. Because of Chiron/Lilith in Aquarius. This beautifully dignified placement was cut on hold for a bit. But right now, it's shining beautifully. I'm taking control of my life, I'm excited and ready.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
I'm just going on the principle of the fact that the Ascendant ruler is meant to signify the person, the place that they are at, what their main interest and focus in life is.

So if you have this most important planet placed in a sign in which it is "at odds," "not happy," then it is possible to say that much of the person's life should be an uphill struggle... because they are constantly in "the wrong place."

Aries rising with Mars in Taurus. Aries says GO! while the ruler of the sign is placed in another sign which says STOP. Or at least go really slowly. One question froggy, is that Mars in the 1st house?
 

Alstroemeria

Well-known member
I have Cancer Ascendant with Taurus Moon; I'm afraid I love food a little too much. (The Moon's trine to Jupiter doesn't help.) My Ascendant is square Mars (intercepted, only fire planet), opposite Uranus-Neptune conjunction, and trine Pluto. My Sun is semi-sextile Moon, conjunct Venus/Mercury, square Jupiter, and closely conjunct Aldebaran, hahaha.

Two astro twins I know have Libra Ascendant with Venus in Virgo (fall). The one I know very well seems distraught in the love department; she has many suitors but returns none of their affections, and the one guy she's liked didn't return hers. She has idealized visions of what a perfect relationship should be like, and often brings up what her perfect man would be like. Also self-image issues; maybe it's Sun Opposition Saturn or something. Ascendant is squared by Uranus-Neptune and trined by Saturn.

Romantic love is not the main focus of her life, however. She may be "at odds" with herself but her life is abound with joy, optimism -- despite struggles.

As for her astro twin, he is just... a butt.

Looking through my charts, I have quite a few examples of ascendant rulers in dignity and debility.

I suppose then, most younger-generation people with Scorpio Ascendants (with Pluto in Scorpio) are happy with themselves and such? Well, I guess Mars could be the Ascendant Ruler too, then...
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
My theory is that a person with this debility will never be happy in themselves, with where they are or what they are doing.

I am a Leo Rising with Sun in Aquarius (Sun's detriment); and besides the usual dissatisfaction with myself (which we all have, even need to have to a certain extent..), I really can't say that I have never been happy in myself...., and, accordingly, certainly don't want to think that I never will be.

I'm just going on the principle of the fact that the Ascendant ruler is meant to signify the person, the place that they are at, what their main interest and focus in life is.
The main focus in life is shown by the placement of Sun in a house in the chart.

The Ascendant shows the self-image you portray to your surroundings, your outer personality, how others perceive you..; so these things might suffer, or perhaps that particular area, which is associated with the Asc ruler, if the ruler is poorly placed or aspected.

IMO, whether "one is happy in themselves" depends on many factors in the chart really, say thinking-Mercury, sub-conscious personality (inner self/emotions/feelings) - the Moon, aspects to the Sun (conscious personality, focus in life etc).. so the above is quite a 'weighty' and expansive statement really, which thankfully can not be answered by one configuration in the chart only. Just my opinion.

:)aquarius7000
 
Last edited:
I have a Virgo Asc with Mercury in fall in Pisces, I have two modes of operation in conflict. My Virgo Asc wants to analyse, discriminate, and ground my approach to the world by doing mundane tasks, and taking a more productive approach. Whilst my Mercury in fall in Pisces, doesn't think too much about the mundane world and all the little details in life, that by necessity has to be attended to. I tend to forget to pay bills, make phone calls, go shopping for food (my cupboard is empty, send food parcels my way or better still some money :p ). My Mercury in Pisces thinks idealistically, whilst Virgo is in the here and now, and has the ability to "focus" on what has to be dealt with at this moment, not later or tomorrow when Mercury in Pisces finally gets round to the task but then forgets to do it :D .Virgo prioritizes things sorts them into order.

Pisces likes to swim in a stream of unconsciousness, living in a more symbolic world, it analyzes the dream world, Mercury in Pisces can fantasize a LOT but not always make reality out of their dreams and ambitions. Mercury in Pisces can get confused and muddled in thinking, and suffer from a loss of direction in life. Interests lie in the unseen world like psychology and the spiritual realm, or creative writing etc. If an individual with this placement (ruler in fall) works hard at bringing some of this inner tension into mutual balance then we have the practical healer, or the spiritual writer, or dutiful nurse etc. All plays on the Virgo/Pisces theme but it really depends on the rest of the chart for full synthesis.

When the ruling planet falls in it's opposite sign, then it creates the same kind of tension as if in opposition. Take an Aries Asc who's ruling god is Mars a planet which takes immediate action, acts independently, takes care of themselves etc. Now place the ruler of this Aries Asc in Libra, now we meet someone with a conflict between acting independently, and taking other people's needs into consideration. Mars in Libra can be more indecisive in this sign and less direct. Yet Mars in Libra acts very well when acting on behalf of others, like in law firms or any job fighting on another's behalf. Or sometimes Mars in Libra can have others act for them rather than taking action themselves. So again if the individual resolves the inner conflict than we might have here a very good independent advisor or confident negotiator.

I have only covered ruling planets in fall, but you can probably work out how the rest of the detriments and dignities work. All I would say is this type of placement from a personal perspective creates tension that needs release, which can be a productive thing, if the person works at resolving the inner conflicts within their nature.
 
Last edited:

flea

Well-known member
Hi NS

I have asc gemini, with merc in sag and jup in gem, so there is reception of debilitation. Both are retrograde.

It is an interesting little pattern. ONe my father has with neptune in virgo on the asc and merc in pisces.

We both have a drive towards a destiny in our lives for the greater good. It is kind of similar to how you put it but endlessly more enlightening. There is a pull towards resolution, and also an ability to seek solutions where others just walk straight past. It is the road less travelled, the one that is kind of solitary yet engaged with community on a deep level. Not many people can relate to my way of looking at life, kind of off kilter on a day to day basis. Yet I can reach profound knowledge for some.

What I am saying is that there are gifts in detriment, but they are not easily found, it is a hard path. And they take a long time, developing persistance and patience.

a reasonant flea
 

MamaMinnee

Well-known member
Froggy said:
"My theory is that a person with this debility will never be happy in themselves, with where they are or what they are doing." I feel like that is sort of a broad statement...
I agree.
... but, I do definitely feel that no matter what I'm doing, it's not enough.
I TOTALLY agree with that! I am a Libra Ascendant with Venus in Scorpio in the 1st, conjunct Jupiter. Venus is in detriment in Scorpio and by residing in the first house. One could say that my Venus aggressively and unnaturally wants the action and intensity of Mars/Pluto and as a result, cannot be content maintaining the status quo, regardless of how favorable it may appear to outsiders. Essentially, I want tomorrow to be better than yesterday or today; and will take action to ensure that is so. That said, I am generally happy and content with myself, where I am and what I am doing.
 
Last edited:

Night Sky

Well-known member
MamaMinnee said:
I agree. I TOTALLY agree with that! I am a Libra Ascendant with Venus in Scorpio in the 1st, conjunct Jupiter. Venus is in detriment in Scorpio and by residing in the first house. One could say that my Venus aggressively and unnaturally wants the action and intensity of Mars/Pluto and as a result, cannot be content maintaining the status quo, regardless of how favorable it may appear to outsiders. Essentially, I want tomorrow to be better than yesterday or today; and will take action to ensure that is so. That said, I am generally happy and content with myself, where I am and what I am doing.
So, Ascendant ruler placed in detriment in the first house is not so bad... the Ascendant ruler is Accidentally dignified...

The accidental dignity of the 1st house appears to be extremely beneficial.

Then we have Venus or Jupiter placed in the 1st house... which can counteract the effect of a Ascendant ruler placed in detriment... Also to note must be Jupiter and Venus in harmonious aspect with the Ascendant ruler.

These are all things which William Lilly ascribes to a long and happy life. Or a life without too much difficulty.


Then there is the issue of mutual reception. This takes a lot of stress out of the debilitated life signifier.
 

woolgatherer

Well-known member
I have a Taurus Ascendant with Venus in Taurus conjunct the Asc in the 1st. I care a fair bit about what others think, but I'm shy and not good at making friends. I don't think people always relate to me very well when they meet me, which could have to do with Pluto in Scorpio opposing my Ascendant and Venus. I probably haven't often been completely happy with myself and my life, but I'm not desperately unhappy with it either, at least right now.
 

Night Sky

Well-known member
woolgatherer said:
I have a Taurus Ascendant with Venus in Taurus conjunct the Asc in the 1st. I care a fair bit about what others think, but I'm shy and not good at making friends. I don't think people always relate to me very well when they meet me, which could have to do with Pluto in Scorpio opposing my Ascendant and Venus. I probably haven't often been completely happy with myself and my life, but I'm not desperately unhappy with it either, at least right now.

I think that is an important point. The Ascendant and its aspects are possibly as important as the ruling planets aspects.
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
I completely agree with Aquarius 7000

I don't think the statement is right, as there is nothing in the chart that can say alllll of those things.

'a person with this debility will never be happy in themselves, with where they are or what they are doing.'

Happiness often comes from one's mindset, emotional state or point of view- jupiter, moon or mercury.

Where a person is can depend on annny part of the chart and not just the Asc. The Asc ruler might be awful, but the 2nd house might be auspicious, the native might be rich, and Venus might be in Taurus so he loves being rich. He is where he wants to be in this regard.

What a person is doing- well career? life purpose? General satisfaction? Mars? MC? Node?

I guess the main point is that if the Asc only rules one's approach to beginnings, or personal appearances and the impression one creates to others, then a debilitated Asc ruler will create unhappiness only in these areas.

Unless you think the Ascendant rules more than this, but that would require an explanation as to why... I too thought that maybe the Ascendant might mean more but was hammered into submission in the Dumb Question thread (will give link if you want).

If anything might show general dissatisfaction and misery, might it be an afflicted Node or a debilitated final depositor?
 

RobinC

Member
Yet Mars in Libra acts very well when acting on behalf of others, like in law firms or any job fighting on another's behalf. Or sometimes Mars in Libra can have others act for them rather than taking action themselves.
My Mars in Libra in the 7th (Leo ruled) loves the above. I wonder(ed) why I can't advocate for myself like I can for someone else. Also, when someone comes to my aid I feel like all is right with the world.

On the Ascendant topic: Mine is Aquarius, with Uranus (detriment) in Leo and solitary in the 6th (Cancer ruled). I feel like I "am" more outgoing than I seem to be, yet when I make the effort to get out more I find it not very satisfying, and sometimes, depending on where I go, it takes me some time to get "comfortable" again when I return home.

At least for me, there does seem to be a push/pull. Between staying home and going out, I think I like the idea of going out more than the idea of staying home. In practice, though, I like actually being home more than actually being out.:confused:

Uranus trines my MC and opposes Chiron which is in Aquarius in the 12th. I'm new to interpretation, but this seems like a frustrating loop, and feels like it is tied in with the go out/stay in, friendly/solitary tugs that are part of my life. Night Sky, it seems almost textbook for your theory :cool:
 
Top