Shining Ray
Banned
deleted post
Last edited:
Chiron Interpretation
- Thread starter Shining Ray
- Start date
hi Shinig Ray,
hope this helps;
http://www.cafeastrology.com/chiron.html
P.S. I used to love your fairy very much, however this is a funny kitty
hope this helps;
http://www.cafeastrology.com/chiron.html
P.S. I used to love your fairy very much, however this is a funny kitty
Arian Maverick
Well-known member
I'm almost surprised that I don't have Chiron in the ninth house because I have major issues with so-called "higher education" and everything it entails, yet Chiron opposes my Midheaven, which may indicate that the root of this emotional wound is with authority.
Especially if you believe your child is an Indigo or a Crystal, please tread carefully here. I am hoping by the time he graduates high school, the system will be very different...
Arian Maverick
Frisiangal
Well-known member
Taurus is all about values and worth....physical as well as psychological. The 9th house is about 'riches and benefits'...physical and spiritual.
There could be a part of you that gets metaphorically sick and tired of Virgo scrimping and saving and Pisces weakness in self sacrifice in order to make ends meet, even though you do it ....or allow it to happen... quite willingly. You could hope for better days and times when there is 'more' than just sufficient to get by, which may not happen as much as you try. As you see other people (above horizon) getting things (without much effort?), you might wonder why such doesn't come your way. Jupiter can represent the social services with whom you come in contact or social injustices you undergo. On a physical level that could provide a reason for a hurtful Chiron, especially if all your personal efforts to better your life also go unrewarded in the form of a compliment, a pat on the shoulder, a small bunch of flowers, etc., that Taurus needs to feel appreciated and all it is doing is of value and worth while.
Chiron lies between Saturn and Uranus. In another thread you have already introduced comments regarding the meaning of Saturn in Virgo. A physical planet in a physical sign. There is a part of you that is hanging on to what you've got for dear life. Yet Uranus is in Scorpio, as if another part of you is also struggling or rebelling to be liberated from a deep emotional need (and possessions as well) that holds you back from moving forward. If Saturn is the old way and Uranus the reorganised way, it's Chiron that has to pave the way between them. With the square from Jupiter pulling Chiron along with it, you know how to develop yourself but are not as sure of how to go about it. I don't believe you are afraid of failure rather than what it will cost you.
If you place all your trust in other people, and possibly for them providing for you, you lower any value and worth you place upon yourself. By gaining self confidence and trusting in your own abilities, your self worth and the value you place upon yourself will increase. Depending upon whether you are prepared to pay the price, Chiron will then cease giving reason for hurting.
F.
There could be a part of you that gets metaphorically sick and tired of Virgo scrimping and saving and Pisces weakness in self sacrifice in order to make ends meet, even though you do it ....or allow it to happen... quite willingly. You could hope for better days and times when there is 'more' than just sufficient to get by, which may not happen as much as you try. As you see other people (above horizon) getting things (without much effort?), you might wonder why such doesn't come your way. Jupiter can represent the social services with whom you come in contact or social injustices you undergo. On a physical level that could provide a reason for a hurtful Chiron, especially if all your personal efforts to better your life also go unrewarded in the form of a compliment, a pat on the shoulder, a small bunch of flowers, etc., that Taurus needs to feel appreciated and all it is doing is of value and worth while.
Chiron lies between Saturn and Uranus. In another thread you have already introduced comments regarding the meaning of Saturn in Virgo. A physical planet in a physical sign. There is a part of you that is hanging on to what you've got for dear life. Yet Uranus is in Scorpio, as if another part of you is also struggling or rebelling to be liberated from a deep emotional need (and possessions as well) that holds you back from moving forward. If Saturn is the old way and Uranus the reorganised way, it's Chiron that has to pave the way between them. With the square from Jupiter pulling Chiron along with it, you know how to develop yourself but are not as sure of how to go about it. I don't believe you are afraid of failure rather than what it will cost you.
If you place all your trust in other people, and possibly for them providing for you, you lower any value and worth you place upon yourself. By gaining self confidence and trusting in your own abilities, your self worth and the value you place upon yourself will increase. Depending upon whether you are prepared to pay the price, Chiron will then cease giving reason for hurting
.F.
Lapis
Well-known member
First of all Shining Ray, I have to tell you how much I love your avatar! It makes me smile every time I see it. Here's a quote from B.H.Clow about this one.
"Chiron in the Ninth House -
"Chiron's presence in the ninth house signifies the crisis of connecting with the higher self in this incarnation. The higher self is the wisdom energy that is the integrating spiritual force of each lifetime. Some call it soul. Each individual lifetime is a journey of ensoulment, of activating, embodying, and radiating out of the higher self. These natives are naturally interested in philosophy and spirituality. Often they also teach these values. They understand the natural law intuitively, and they possess an unusual ability to find ways to express essential universal values. They nervously search for meaning; they tend to feel driven to know ultimate truths and convey them to others. They love to travel and experience the energy of temples and spiritual centers on the planet. But have they connected with the higher self and learned to embody the higher self in everyday life?
Chiron is pragmatism, the how-to principle in the chart, and because Chiron is experiential, careful probing will reveal what is going on with Chirotic energy in the ninth. Like the third house natives, ninth house natives appear to be the adept. They naturally embody spirituality, wisdom about the natural law, but their crisis is always over resonation with the higher self. The astrologer who can help them look at their level of connection with the higher self has the opportunity to guide them with their most closely held secret - that they actually are not in touch with the higher self themselves. This is the adept who teaches everyone else to know the soul, who longs intensely for ensoulment. Meditation connecting the higher self and work with body healers who can help bring in the God force is highly recommended. The Sabian symbol for the ascendant is a reading of the higher self, since we have the same ascendant degree in each incarnation. Special work counseling your clients with Chiron in the ninth to resonate with the ascendant energy will help them find the higher self....."
That was from Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron - Rainbow Bridge between the Inner and Outer Planets. I hope it resonated with you. Being in Taurus I'd suspect that being consciously aware of 'Goddess' energy will also quickly connect you with your higher self far more than those old traditional 9th house sort of belief systems and philosophys etc.
"Chiron in the Ninth House -
"Chiron's presence in the ninth house signifies the crisis of connecting with the higher self in this incarnation. The higher self is the wisdom energy that is the integrating spiritual force of each lifetime. Some call it soul. Each individual lifetime is a journey of ensoulment, of activating, embodying, and radiating out of the higher self. These natives are naturally interested in philosophy and spirituality. Often they also teach these values. They understand the natural law intuitively, and they possess an unusual ability to find ways to express essential universal values. They nervously search for meaning; they tend to feel driven to know ultimate truths and convey them to others. They love to travel and experience the energy of temples and spiritual centers on the planet. But have they connected with the higher self and learned to embody the higher self in everyday life?
Chiron is pragmatism, the how-to principle in the chart, and because Chiron is experiential, careful probing will reveal what is going on with Chirotic energy in the ninth. Like the third house natives, ninth house natives appear to be the adept. They naturally embody spirituality, wisdom about the natural law, but their crisis is always over resonation with the higher self. The astrologer who can help them look at their level of connection with the higher self has the opportunity to guide them with their most closely held secret - that they actually are not in touch with the higher self themselves. This is the adept who teaches everyone else to know the soul, who longs intensely for ensoulment. Meditation connecting the higher self and work with body healers who can help bring in the God force is highly recommended. The Sabian symbol for the ascendant is a reading of the higher self, since we have the same ascendant degree in each incarnation. Special work counseling your clients with Chiron in the ninth to resonate with the ascendant energy will help them find the higher self....."
That was from Barbara Hand Clow's Chiron - Rainbow Bridge between the Inner and Outer Planets. I hope it resonated
with you. Being in Taurus I'd suspect that being consciously aware of 'Goddess' energy will also quickly connect you with your higher self far more than those old traditional 9th house sort of belief systems and philosophys etc.
Last edited:
Chiron is a connection to a higher existance outside ourselves also.
When I had an external experience whereas I knew that we our not just here ,but connected to a higher plane of existance Chiron was conjunct my Mercury.
It connects us to another realm that we know that we are not just here alone.That there is something much bigger than this earthly plane.
It shall take time for it to reach your Mercury ,but I'll bet when it happens you'll realise what I am talking about.
I have mine in the 9th trine my ascendant in Pisces so I imagine you'll feel a certain revelation as to what chiron is all about.
I have read also that we do not feel the planets that we have until Chiron makes a passing over them. I really cannot vouch for that one,but the longer and older we get the more intune we get to our make up.
When I had an external experience whereas I knew that we our not just here ,but connected to a higher plane of existance Chiron was conjunct my Mercury.
It connects us to another realm that we know that we are not just here alone.That there is something much bigger than this earthly plane.
It shall take time for it to reach your Mercury ,but I'll bet when it happens you'll realise what I am talking about.
I have mine in the 9th trine my ascendant in Pisces so I imagine you'll feel a certain revelation as to what chiron is all about.
I have read also that we do not feel the planets that we have until Chiron makes a passing over them. I really cannot vouch for that one,but the longer and older we get the more intune we get to our make up.
Last edited:
New Moon Libra
Active member
I just finished reading Chiron: Healing Body and Soul (Martin Lass, 2005) and popped over here to find this thread. Serendipity.
I've only recently begun to study chiron. I've been skeptical of interpreting only one of the centaurs as prominant. Also, after perusing the Magi Society, who seem at first glance to be on to something, I came to the same realization Robert Hand did: they make chiron the planet of Everything. Even the interpretations I've read online offer little to distinguish chiron's placement from any other. I mean, any planet in the 9th house will raise questions of the higher mind, education, spirituality, etc., but what makes chiron here different, say, than the moon here? Well, Lass's book did just that.
Lass's book is set up much like Steven Forrest's The Book of Pluto, in that it also points out the wounded place in the chart and the healing path (the gift in the wound). He analyzes chiron's influence using some zodiac polar paradigms, like virgo/pisces--emphasizing that synthesis is the key to healing (which is when we can become co-creators), proceeding from the wounded Many (virgo) back to the healed One (pisces), whereas with pluto it is transformation and letting go.
I guess some astrologers want to assign rulership of chiron to sagittarius, but Lass argues that sagittarius is the culmination of the journey to healing--the pinnacle of Truth, whereas chiron is about the wounding journey. Lass gives less analysis than the author quoted above, but he does say a 9th house chiron shows a distrust of your own inner wisdom, so you may seek outer wisdom from teachers of all kinds. This is a reflection of the inner wisdom we need to love, the universe within. He also describes it as a disconnection from our higher self.
There's lots more in this book, including chiron cycle, mostly compared alongside uranus, and information about chiron's orbit, which I learned is quite eccentric. It spends a great deal of time in aries and very little in libra. Not sure about the other signs.
I have chiron in my ninth in pisces. It makes aspects to every planet and some asteroids, but not venus and saturn. It parallels mercury but aspects to sun, moon, mars, jupiter, neptune, uranus, pluto and ceres are parts of a configuration: two golden yods, a yod, two triangles, and an opposition. These aspects point out an awareness of wounds and ability to heal and heal others. The jury's out on that, but it's all new to me. If any of you have more info, please post...
I've only recently begun to study chiron. I've been skeptical of interpreting only one of the centaurs as prominant. Also, after perusing the Magi Society, who seem at first glance to be on to something, I came to the same realization Robert Hand did: they make chiron the planet of Everything. Even the interpretations I've read online offer little to distinguish chiron's placement from any other. I mean, any planet in the 9th house will raise questions of the higher mind, education, spirituality, etc., but what makes chiron here different, say, than the moon here? Well, Lass's book did just that.
Lass's book is set up much like Steven Forrest's The Book of Pluto, in that it also points out the wounded place in the chart and the healing path (the gift in the wound). He analyzes chiron's influence using some zodiac polar paradigms, like virgo/pisces--emphasizing that synthesis is the key to healing (which is when we can become co-creators), proceeding from the wounded Many (virgo) back to the healed One (pisces), whereas with pluto it is transformation and letting go.
I guess some astrologers want to assign rulership of chiron to sagittarius, but Lass argues that sagittarius is the culmination of the journey to healing--the pinnacle of Truth, whereas chiron is about the wounding journey. Lass gives less analysis than the author quoted above, but he does say a 9th house chiron shows a distrust of your own inner wisdom, so you may seek outer wisdom from teachers of all kinds. This is a reflection of the inner wisdom we need to love, the universe within. He also describes it as a disconnection from our higher self.
There's lots more in this book, including chiron cycle, mostly compared alongside uranus, and information about chiron's orbit, which I learned is quite eccentric. It spends a great deal of time in aries and very little in libra. Not sure about the other signs.
I have chiron in my ninth in pisces. It makes aspects to every planet and some asteroids, but not venus and saturn. It parallels mercury but aspects to sun, moon, mars, jupiter, neptune, uranus, pluto and ceres are parts of a configuration: two golden yods, a yod, two triangles, and an opposition. These aspects point out an awareness of wounds and ability to heal and heal others. The jury's out on that, but it's all new to me. If any of you have more info, please post...
New Moon Libra
Active member
I just finished reading Chiron: Healing Body and Soul (Martin Lass, 2005) and popped over here to find this thread. Serendipity.
I've only recently begun to study chiron. I've been skeptical of interpreting only one of the centaurs as prominant. Also, after perusing the Magi Society, who seem at first glance to be on to something, I came to the same realization Robert Hand did: they make chiron the planet of Everything. Even the interpretations I've read online offer little to distinguish chiron's placement from any other. I mean, any planet in the 9th house will raise questions of the higher mind, education, spirituality, etc., but what makes chiron here different, say, than the moon here? Well, Lass's book did just that.
Lass's book is set up much like Steven Forrest's The Book of Pluto, in that it also points out the wounded place in the chart and the healing path (the gift in the wound). He analyzes chiron's influence using some zodiac polar paradigms, like virgo/pisces--emphasizing that synthesis is the key to healing (which is when we can become co-creators), proceeding from the wounded Many (virgo) back to the healed One (pisces), whereas with pluto it is transformation and letting go.
I guess some astrologers want to assign rulership of chiron to sagittarius, but Lass argues that sagittarius is the culmination of the journey to healing--the pinnacle of Truth, whereas chiron is about the wounding journey. Lass gives less analysis than the author quoted above, but he does say a 9th house chiron shows a distrust of your own inner wisdom, so you may seek outer wisdom from teachers of all kinds. This is a reflection of the inner wisdom we need to love, the universe within. He also describes it as a disconnection from our higher self.
There's lots more in this book, including chiron cycle, mostly compared alongside uranus, and information about chiron's orbit, which I learned is quite eccentric. It spends a great deal of time in aries and very little in libra. Not sure about the other signs.
I have chiron in my ninth in pisces. It makes aspects to every planet and some asteroids, but not venus and saturn. It parallels mercury but aspects to sun, moon, mars, jupiter, neptune, uranus, pluto and ceres are parts of a configuration: a golden yod, a yod, two triangles. These aspects point out an awareness of wounds and ability to heal and heal others. The jury's out on that, but it's all new to me. If any of you have more info, please post...
I've only recently begun to study chiron. I've been skeptical of interpreting only one of the centaurs as prominant. Also, after perusing the Magi Society, who seem at first glance to be on to something, I came to the same realization Robert Hand did: they make chiron the planet of Everything. Even the interpretations I've read online offer little to distinguish chiron's placement from any other. I mean, any planet in the 9th house will raise questions of the higher mind, education, spirituality, etc., but what makes chiron here different, say, than the moon here? Well, Lass's book did just that.
Lass's book is set up much like Steven Forrest's The Book of Pluto, in that it also points out the wounded place in the chart and the healing path (the gift in the wound). He analyzes chiron's influence using some zodiac polar paradigms, like virgo/pisces--emphasizing that synthesis is the key to healing (which is when we can become co-creators), proceeding from the wounded Many (virgo) back to the healed One (pisces), whereas with pluto it is transformation and letting go.
I guess some astrologers want to assign rulership of chiron to sagittarius, but Lass argues that sagittarius is the culmination of the journey to healing--the pinnacle of Truth, whereas chiron is about the wounding journey. Lass gives less analysis than the author quoted above, but he does say a 9th house chiron shows a distrust of your own inner wisdom, so you may seek outer wisdom from teachers of all kinds. This is a reflection of the inner wisdom we need to love, the universe within. He also describes it as a disconnection from our higher self.
There's lots more in this book, including chiron cycle, mostly compared alongside uranus, and information about chiron's orbit, which I learned is quite eccentric. It spends a great deal of time in aries and very little in libra. Not sure about the other signs.
I have chiron in my ninth in pisces. It makes aspects to every planet and some asteroids, but not venus and saturn. It parallels mercury but aspects to sun, moon, mars, jupiter, neptune, uranus, pluto and ceres are parts of a configuration: a golden yod, a yod, two triangles. These aspects point out an awareness of wounds and ability to heal and heal others. The jury's out on that, but it's all new to me. If any of you have more info, please post...
Last edited:
unukalhai
Well-known member
Chiron is a difficult object to pin down! It's one of my current studies, and I don't think I understand it well enough to offer that much, but I will try anyways I should add there is a new book by Adam Gainsburg called "Chiron: The Wisdom Of A Deeply Open Heart" which I am through about 30 pages of so far, and it is a fascinating read. Unlike Lass's book it is of a fairly small size, 155 pages, but like Lass, is quite concise. It is very much worth adding to your library should you be interested in Chiron, his views are fairly unique.
So far, from both my experiences with Chiron (which have been quite powerful) and from what I've read, the wound usually takes a form of a separation from something, sometimes even from yourself, and the healing process is the reuniting with what you have been separated from. Taking another view on this shows that the wound is a descent into duality, and the healing process involves the journey towards unity and wholeness of the self as well as with others.
My personal experience also indicates house placement is far more important than the sign placement of Chiron in your chart, although some others who have studied Chiron disagree with me on this, but both in my chart and that of others, I see the wound plays out based on the house placement more than anything else, yet the sign indicates the "feeling" of the wound...
For me, Taurus, indicating stability, or more realistically, the lack there of.. In the 4th, family and the home. When my IC progressed to Chiron, shortly after my first Chiron-Chiron square, my family split, I lost my natural home, and had to rely on folks other than blood relatives for a home. I was forced to create security for myself, and was pushed to learn how to live with the uncertain. Many not such a big deal for an adult, but I was not yet an adult at the time. As with most of us who have an early first square, we face our deep-seated troubles at an early age, which can be quite difficult but a strong character building experience. The age of the first and second Chiron squares varies widely from generation to generation, as Chiron has a very elliptical orbit, spending something like 65% of its time going through 25% of the zodiac if I recall correctly.
One may also gain a better understanding of their Chironic wounds and issues by looking at the events surrounding the first Chiron-Chiron square, when we get our first real taste of the wound. It is also important to look at the second square, the waning Chiron-Chiron square (270 degrees) for a continuation of these issues and as a guidepost as to how we've handled them.
The Chironic journey is highly personal and very deep, I find that one can not put specific definitions on Chiron because of this. His aspects in your Natal chart show further light on your wounds, with transits and progressions indicating important times of your life to help you connect with your Chironic journey.
I should add there is a new book by Adam Gainsburg called "Chiron: The Wisdom Of A Deeply Open Heart" which I am through about 30 pages of so far, and it is a fascinating read. Unlike Lass's book it is of a fairly small size, 155 pages, but like Lass, is quite concise. It is very much worth adding to your library should you be interested in Chiron, his views are fairly unique.So far, from both my experiences with Chiron (which have been quite powerful) and from what I've read, the wound usually takes a form of a separation from something, sometimes even from yourself, and the healing process is the reuniting with what you have been separated from. Taking another view on this shows that the wound is a descent into duality, and the healing process involves the journey towards unity and wholeness of the self as well as with others.
My personal experience also indicates house placement is far more important than the sign placement of Chiron in your chart, although some others who have studied Chiron disagree with me on this, but both in my chart and that of others, I see the wound plays out based on the house placement more than anything else, yet the sign indicates the "feeling" of the wound...
For me, Taurus, indicating stability, or more realistically, the lack there of.. In the 4th, family and the home. When my IC progressed to Chiron, shortly after my first Chiron-Chiron square, my family split, I lost my natural home, and had to rely on folks other than blood relatives for a home. I was forced to create security for myself, and was pushed to learn how to live with the uncertain. Many not such a big deal for an adult, but I was not yet an adult at the time. As with most of us who have an early first square, we face our deep-seated troubles at an early age, which can be quite difficult but a strong character building experience. The age of the first and second Chiron squares varies widely from generation to generation, as Chiron has a very elliptical orbit, spending something like 65% of its time going through 25% of the zodiac if I recall correctly.
One may also gain a better understanding of their Chironic wounds and issues by looking at the events surrounding the first Chiron-Chiron square, when we get our first real taste of the wound. It is also important to look at the second square, the waning Chiron-Chiron square (270 degrees) for a continuation of these issues and as a guidepost as to how we've handled them.
The Chironic journey is highly personal and very deep, I find that one can not put specific definitions on Chiron because of this. His aspects in your Natal chart show further light on your wounds, with transits and progressions indicating important times of your life to help you connect with your Chironic journey.
New Moon Libra
Active member
Thanks Unukalhai. I went back and checked my first chiron square as you mention. It was the day before my first marriage. Besides the square, chiron was conj tr sun and tr moon all in opp to tr uranus, squ natal uranus and natal pluto (transits all in a grand square with my natal chiron/pluto opposition). Wow. I knew a week into the marriage it was a bad idea, but took seven years to get out. Wounding, sure, but I'll have to think about how that fits with chiron in pisces in the 9th.
Samandra81
Member
Hi Shining Ray,
I love your avatar as well! I'm a huge animal lover, especially cats. I have Chiron in Taurus just like you, only it is in my 8th House. I wish I could offer help on interpreting Chiron but I'm among those who still have not much information on it and its role in the natal chart. Heck I'm still a newbie to astrology!
From examining my chart, it looks like Chiron is making an exact iscoceles triangle (by minutes!) with Neptune in Sagittarius and Pluto in Libra. I think that Neptune and Pluto are involved in a sextile (I hope that's the word!) In addition, it appears it is also involved in a square with Moon in Aquarius, and an opposition with Uranus in Scorpio. However, it makes a lovely trine with my Sun. Although with the "wound" aspect of Chiron, I'm not sure whether this bodes well or not.
I love your avatar as well! I'm a huge animal lover, especially cats.
I have Chiron in Taurus just like you, only it is in my 8th House. I wish I could offer help on interpreting Chiron but I'm among those who still have not much information on it and its role in the natal chart. Heck I'm still a newbie to astrology! From examining my chart, it looks like Chiron is making an exact iscoceles triangle (by minutes!) with Neptune in Sagittarius and Pluto in Libra. I think that Neptune and Pluto are involved in a sextile (I hope that's the word!) In addition, it appears it is also involved in a square with Moon in Aquarius, and an opposition with Uranus in Scorpio. However, it makes a lovely trine with my Sun. Although with the "wound" aspect of Chiron, I'm not sure whether this bodes well or not.
unukalhai
Well-known member
New Moon Libra said:
You're welcome
Yowzer! What a hit. You might gain more interesting dates and transit charts by following the rest of the cycle.. Check out 30, 45, 60, 72, 120, 135, 150 and 180 aspects as well. Whenever I stumble on a powerful hit in a planetary cycle like you did, I check out the rest of the cycle; sometimes it reveals quite interesting stuff. Remember it's all a cyclic process, and the whole cycle is important.
Try to think of the experience as less of a wound and more of part of a greater experience in the journey of realizing yourself. You were obviously dealt a blow, but there's a deeper reasoning and a higher endgame to the experience. The softer aspects (especially the sextile and trine) might line up with some of the progressive parts of the journey rather than the difficulties.
Remember that Chiron orbit between, and connects, Saturn to Uranus. We experience hardships, troubles and in general a reckoning with reality (Saturn) that shock us into a higher state of self-awareness and connection with our spiritual core (Uranus).
Wound is a probably not the right term to use for Chiron's experience... It does fit, but it implies more than it should; a wound doesn't really do anyone any good... It's something to be healed from, medicated, nursed, etc etc... Chiron's experiences, however "wounding" they may seem, lead to growth, transcendence and self-integration on levels otherwise impossible. It is these difficult experiences that lead to transcending the karmic weakness or vulnerability expressed by the natal Chiron placement.
Possibly the experience helped lead to a more stable, practical, and logical (Virgo, opposite of Pisces) sense of higher abstract reasoning, philosophical expression, or religion (9th house)? There are, of course, other meanings to both the 9th and Pisces, so don't be shy to do the synthesis on your own. It would probably be good to read up on Pisces and the 9th from a few different authors to freshen up your concepts regarding these two placements. As humans, we tend to focus in on certain areas of archetypes, sometimes forgetting the bigger picture... I know I've been guilty of this. You may say "but how big just can these two things be"... well, both are classically ruled by Jupiter.. so realllllly big!
And Yoi... The first step to integrating a conscious understanding of Chiron is to forget "good" and "bad" -- These are dualistic concepts, the very sort of thinking Chiron wants to free us from. Everything in Chiron's domain has a purpose, and is all part of a cosmic shamanic experience.
Who's to say Venus and Jupiter are all good? The classical concept that these two "benefics" can do no harm is better off forgotten
To many including myself have negatives to work on and therefore overlook the healing aspects of Chiron.
I am very much in tune to it's energy having it opposing my Pluto(Virgo) and it's in the 9th exact trine ascendant and sextile Jupiter 7th.It is the closest planet to my MC also.
I will have depression when it opposes my Pluto I know that.
I am very much in tune to it's energy having it opposing my Pluto(Virgo) and it's in the 9th exact trine ascendant and sextile Jupiter 7th.It is the closest planet to my MC also.
I will have depression when it opposes my Pluto I know that.
New Moon Libra
Active member
Well, Unukalhai, your suggestion was terrific. I threw my whole life onto the Chiron cycle to see what stuck, and it was amazing what did. I have the details below (more than you ever wanted to know, I'm sure, but in the interest of astrological research, I've included it all. My chart is in the member pages if you're so inclined). Several things stand out:
1) the number of "firsts" that hit on the cycle
2) the number of relationship changes (beginning and ending)
Also, the complication in my chart is that natal Chiron aspects every planet except two, so these cyclic aspects will create a web, and I'm not sure where Chiron begins or ends, if you see what I mean. The other thing to note is that some of these changes may sound bad, but I experienced them as reliefs or opportunities. Curiously, the best romantic relationship of my life--my current husband--doesn't really show up in here anywhere, nor do my two children, who are the very center of my life.
I'm having the last aspect next month before the return in 2014. Curious to see about that. Also, have you any reference for Chiron returns you could post?
And now...one woman's Chiron cycle:
3/1973 waxing semisextile - I was 9...all I remember is I've always considered 1973 the best year in music
5/1976 waxing semisquare H10 in Taurus - parents divorce final
5/1980 waxing sextile H11 Taurus - first team sport
6/1986 waxing square H12 Gemini - married 1st husband
9/1989 waxing trine H12 Cancer - gave up trying to "fix" marriage and pursued college
8/1990 conjunct ascendent Cancer - came out to family as lesbian
7/1991 waxing sesquiquadrate H1 Leo - first lesbian relationship
8/1992 waxing quincunx H1 Leo - left 1st husband
9/1994 opposition H3 Virgo - [7/94 divorce final] 9/94 moved across country, first full-time job
10/1995 conjunct IC Libra - Left a lease because of insect infestation, lived with mother, and by time Chiron separated from orb (5deg) had bought my own house
9/1996 waning quincunx H4 Libra - started first literary work, first professional job at a university
12/1996 waning sesquiquadrate H4 Scorpio - first relationship after relocation
12/1997 waning trine H5 Scorpio - impulsively quit job when discovered manager lying
2/2000 waning square H6 Sag - partner moved out
2/2003 waning sextile H6 Capricorn - [1/03 first child premature and in NICU] father died
3/2004 conjunct descendant Capricorn - began anger management therapy at retrograde 7/04
2/2005 waning semisquare H7 Aquarius - began counseling with a spiritual director
4/2007 waning semisextile H7 Aquarius - [3/07 completed edits and submitted that first literary work from 10 years ago to agent] ?
3/2014 return - ?
1) the number of "firsts" that hit on the cycle
2) the number of relationship changes (beginning and ending)
Also, the complication in my chart is that natal Chiron aspects every planet except two, so these cyclic aspects will create a web, and I'm not sure where Chiron begins or ends, if you see what I mean. The other thing to note is that some of these changes may sound bad, but I experienced them as reliefs or opportunities. Curiously, the best romantic relationship of my life--my current husband--doesn't really show up in here anywhere, nor do my two children, who are the very center of my life.
I'm having the last aspect next month before the return in 2014. Curious to see about that. Also, have you any reference for Chiron returns you could post?
And now...one woman's Chiron cycle:
3/1973 waxing semisextile - I was 9...all I remember is I've always considered 1973 the best year in music
5/1976 waxing semisquare H10 in Taurus - parents divorce final
5/1980 waxing sextile H11 Taurus - first team sport
6/1986 waxing square H12 Gemini - married 1st husband
9/1989 waxing trine H12 Cancer - gave up trying to "fix" marriage and pursued college
8/1990 conjunct ascendent Cancer - came out to family as lesbian
7/1991 waxing sesquiquadrate H1 Leo - first lesbian relationship
8/1992 waxing quincunx H1 Leo - left 1st husband
9/1994 opposition H3 Virgo - [7/94 divorce final] 9/94 moved across country, first full-time job
10/1995 conjunct IC Libra - Left a lease because of insect infestation, lived with mother, and by time Chiron separated from orb (5deg) had bought my own house
9/1996 waning quincunx H4 Libra - started first literary work, first professional job at a university
12/1996 waning sesquiquadrate H4 Scorpio - first relationship after relocation
12/1997 waning trine H5 Scorpio - impulsively quit job when discovered manager lying
2/2000 waning square H6 Sag - partner moved out
2/2003 waning sextile H6 Capricorn - [1/03 first child premature and in NICU] father died
3/2004 conjunct descendant Capricorn - began anger management therapy at retrograde 7/04
2/2005 waning semisquare H7 Aquarius - began counseling with a spiritual director
4/2007 waning semisextile H7 Aquarius - [3/07 completed edits and submitted that first literary work from 10 years ago to agent] ?
3/2014 return - ?
Last edited:
unukalhai said:Possibly the experience helped lead to a more stable, practical, and logical (Virgo, opposite of Pisces) sense of higher abstract reasoning, philosophical expression, or religion (9th house)? There are, of course, other meanings to both the 9th and Pisces, so don't be shy to do the synthesis on your own. It would probably be good to read up on Pisces and the 9th from a few different authors to freshen up your concepts regarding these two placements. As humans, we tend to focus in on certain areas of archetypes, sometimes forgetting the bigger picture... I know I've been guilty of this. You may say "but how big just can these two things be"... well, both are classically ruled by Jupiter.. so realllllly big!
And Yoi... The first step to integrating a conscious understanding of Chiron is to forget "good" and "bad" -- These are dualistic concepts, the very sort of thinking Chiron wants to free us from. Everything in Chiron's domain has a purpose, and is all part of a cosmic shamanic experience.
Who's to say Venus and Jupiter are all good? The classical concept that these two "benefics" can do no harm is better off forgotten
I have the placement of Chiron in this axis as you so elquently describe. Having it exactly trine my ascendant and having a spirtual awakining when it was exactly on my Mercury in Taurus opened my mind to a higher source of being than myself. Being brought up to believe in Jesus ,but not forced into organised religion I had never explored the deeper meaning of our existance. The wounding that we experience can be healed through the wisdom that can be shown to us through the despair of Neptune,Pluto and Chiron.
If you know the writings of the likes of Jung and a few others that have studied the meaning behind philosphical teachings of why we are here then you can find that we all share a common ground of wandering for a meaning and substance to our lives. It can be found within ourselves and truely live.Weather we believe in a religious philosophy or not we can find common ground to believe in .We are all connected to a certain extent.
Jupiter has a bigger meaning then luck IMO.It has the deep meaning of life or living for a purpose that is bigger than ourselves. Venus can reflect a deeper meaning of love and compassion for those that are different than ourselves.
Yes,Good & Bad are not truely pure meaning.Yet there is pain that cannot be healed as the loss of a loved one or the betrayal by one we love.Seeing another in pain. These things are not construed as being benefits ,but then again they can lead to vehicles for growth through pain.However hard or harsh that may sound.
I often say we miss the spirit of those we love.Their laugh,their talk,their smile. These things cannot be forgotten yet we go on.
That is the essential realities behind what the boundries of Chiron,Satrurn and Uranus can lead to IMO. Uranus shocks us into the knowing while Saturn shows us the limitations and they are thrust upon us when Chiron has enlightened our mind. This last part is kinda hard to explain in language to understand astrologically.
If you wish to see when my awakening happened you can look at my chart and the tansits for 8\10\80 2am LA,CA. time.My birthtime is 5\13\60 8:12am NYC 2Can Asc.
JMO
Soul Friend
Well-known member
Samandra81 said:Hi Shining Ray,
I love your avatar as well! I'm a huge animal lover, especially cats.
From examining my chart, it looks like Chiron is making an exact iscoceles triangle (by minutes!) with Neptune in Sagittarius and Pluto in Libra. I think that Neptune and Pluto are involved in a sextile (I hope that's the word!) In addition, it appears it is also involved in a square with Moon in Aquarius, and an opposition with Uranus in Scorpio. However, it makes a lovely trine with my Sun. Although with the "wound" aspect of Chiron, I'm not sure whether this bodes well or not.
Hello Samandra81,
The triangle you described is called a Yod which if you search here you'll find other threads about them.
Basically the point planet at the top of the triangle is called the "Focal Planet" which here is Chiron in Taurus. It is in a challenging aspect of 150° or 5 signs called a quincunx, a disjunction or an inconjunct so don't be surprised by the many names as long as you see they all refer to the 150° aspect. You are blessed to have this in a softer place with Pluto because the signs Taurus and Libra each have affinity for one another through their common ruler of Venus. This is probably the easiest placement of inconjunctions. Although this aspect by itself can be difficult and a novice might think that two of them together might "gang up" on you, it actually provides you with an easier way to manage the tension through the sextile created by the planets at the "Base" of the triangle called a Yod. After the Uranian energy is include by opposition it is then called a "Boomerang" and perhaps what I've recently heard referred to as a "Golden Triangle". Not sure on the GT but the Boomerang I'm familiar with. The small triangle formed with Uranus bisecting your Neptune-Pluto sextile is referred to by some as a "Talent Triangle" which with this focus on Chiron in Taurus manifests the expression in the house where it is located in your natal chart. The next thing to consider is the house locations of all these planets.
If you wish to include birth data many of us prefer City name and location as opposed to lat and long lines which I've seen here in reverse order although we can figure this out as long as the North/South East/West directions are included.
The only trouble is the automatic chart generators use Cities not lat/long because the expectation is that research that way isn't being done if your accessing a computer program. Give the houses or chart info and someone should speak up and help you out. I'm available via pm if no one tries but this is a great place and usually there's more than enough help sharing input. Take Care & Be Blessed!†!
~Soul Friend
~~~Rick
SR
I also have Pi K trine Cancer Asc from the 9th .A few other aspects that I find interesting are:
K * Ju 7th cusp Cap
K Opposition Pluto 3rd Virgo
K trine Ne 5th Scorpio
It is part of Mystic Rectangle ad Kite in my chart.
The significant event for me was a transpersonal experience that happened at 20.
Another factor that I am trying to find info on is that at age 51 we experience 2 events.The K return and a significant number of Septiles in our Solar Arc sharts.
For myself I shall ecperience a significant amount of Septile aspects at 51.More than is usual for those that have them happen at 51.
I think the Skeleton Key is an appropriate symbol for Chiron as it makes us aware of another dimennsion than the physical world. It opens doors to other possibilities and dimensions .
I am not a traditionalist where education is concerned. I do challenge convntional wosdom at times. I am sure about my position most times before getting into any debate about a subject though.
I had posted to Benns who recently wrte a book on Chiron whic I have not read yet.We agree on some things I know that.One of which is that we have found that K completes many formations in charts.MacArthur I think is one.
I have not read the whole thread which I will.
One thing that is controversal are he rulerships and placements which might work well for K. I am finding that Aries seems to be a placement which does not fit well for K. There seems to be more attention given to wounding then healing when found there. Sag-Virgo-Pisces seem to work well woth K in them.
Taurus values are the great issue I think. Being able to use to rsources also.Wounding and healing might come through close relationships formed.
I also have Pi K trine Cancer Asc from the 9th .A few other aspects that I find interesting are:
K * Ju 7th cusp Cap
K Opposition Pluto 3rd Virgo
K trine Ne 5th Scorpio
It is part of Mystic Rectangle ad Kite in my chart.
The significant event for me was a transpersonal experience that happened at 20.
Another factor that I am trying to find info on is that at age 51 we experience 2 events.The K return and a significant number of Septiles in our Solar Arc sharts.
For myself I shall ecperience a significant amount of Septile aspects at 51.More than is usual for those that have them happen at 51.
I think the Skeleton Key is an appropriate symbol for Chiron as it makes us aware of another dimennsion than the physical world. It opens doors to other possibilities and dimensions .
I am not a traditionalist where education is concerned. I do challenge convntional wosdom at times. I am sure about my position most times before getting into any debate about a subject though.
I had posted to Benns who recently wrte a book on Chiron whic I have not read yet.We agree on some things I know that.One of which is that we have found that K completes many formations in charts.MacArthur I think is one.
I have not read the whole thread which I will.
One thing that is controversal are he rulerships and placements which might work well for K. I am finding that Aries seems to be a placement which does not fit well for K. There seems to be more attention given to wounding then healing when found there. Sag-Virgo-Pisces seem to work well woth K in them.
Taurus values are the great issue I think. Being able to use to rsources also.Wounding and healing might come through close relationships formed.
Last edited:
Does anyone know much about Chiron's effect on relationships (synastry)? Would another person with their natal Chiron conjunct your Sun heal you or wound you? (I have natal Chiron conjunct my natal Sun within an orb of 5 degrees,and my friend's Chiron is only 1 degree from my Sun.) He could help matters in my profession or hurt them,I guess (in that I would say the greatest wound of my life has been not to be able to be involved in music for many years due to a long illness which caused me not to have the strength,energy,or concentration available for it-- I did finally get well and become involved in music again and became a much better teacher for having the experience although I'm still a little socially "flat" because of a tremendous loss of confidence in myself and life in general; healing is still in process,I suppose).My friend who is also a professional musician could be very supportive in the long run or on the other hand just be a constant reminder of what I lost--he has had a long,successful and uninterrupted career-- and make me more accutely aware of it rather than allowing me to continue "adjusting" to performing again,knowing that it will never be "what it could have been". How should I think of this aspect with my friend?
Does it heal or harm in relationships? Thanks!--Emmy
Does it heal or harm in relationships? Thanks!--Emmy
Shining Ray said:Hi Sag Moon,
I have read a couple of things which think Chiron should be ruled under Sagittarius. Here is one small article on it. Until I read more, I can't make up my mind.
As you know, I've developed a theory about the significance of the movement of Scorpio to Sagittarius in the astrological wheel. I view it as the bridge to the transpersonal and a rebirth into the cosmic dimension. Scorpio has traditionally been associated with the healer, but I think Sagittarius might govern the actual repair process. Scorpio leads arduously to the source of the wounds, and the Scorpionic surgeon might cut them out violently, or bring knowledge of the importance of elimination, but once that realization is complete, the ongoing process of renewing healthy growth likely takes place in Sagittarius. Chiron was the spiritual physician in mythology and so could the Sagittarian be in actuality.
The Sagittarians I've known have been the most helpful people of all. They do this with true generosity and no complaint. At their best they have a tendency to soothe anxieties and help others recognize that things will be all right. They know what to do to and they're confident. "It will work out", they often say. They sort through things with people, and they're often good-natured. I help everyone in my life without hesitation as soon as the wounds appear, knowing there is a remedy, that anything can heal, and that faith in the process is best. Even death is sometimes the healer. I'm a sympathetic Cancer but I don't attribute my impulse to come to the rescue with first aid to this fact. I connect it to my Moon-Jupiter conjunction in Sagittarius in the 9th house. Healing is a process of regeneration. The liver is the most regenerative part of the human body. The liver is ruled by Jupiter. This makes me think that faith is the fundamental factor in the cure, coming under the auspices of Jupiter and Sagittarius. Scorpio takes us to the decay and that which must be released to revitalize, perhaps Sagittarius gives us the healing techniques backed up by the new spiritual information.
So my conclusion is that a major healing process has been initiated with the transits of Pluto through Scorpio and Sagittarius as the dwarf-planet gets ready to travel the last quadrant of the wheel. The explosion of the Trade Towers with Pluto exactly on the USA ascendant was the start of the regenerating process in America. George Bush was the symbol with his south node in Sagittarius. The south node holds all the information of that sign and he came to disseminate the knowledge as this nation awakened to her identity. It's at 19-20 degrees as well, the place where Jupiter was when the Iraq invasion took place at 29 Pisces signaling an ending.
The passage of Pluto through Scorpio brought major disease to the surface, and the transit of Sagittarius brought the start of the cure, culminating with Jupiter passing through Sagittarius this past year across the USA ascendant. The renewed faith, hard for many to perceive, could be guiding this ongoing restoration from now on as Pluto goes through Capricorn and brings inner structural decay to the forefront. It appears as though the United States might be coming into her role as a more enlightened healer and leader with her Sagittarian ascendant, but not without time and attention paid to her internal maladies in the next few years. The corruption in the system has risen to the top and is fully exposed, part of the curative process. As with Chiron, the wounds are necessary, but the techniques for repair are instinctive and the ability to master life regardless, are there as well, ready to be taught to others, as we move beyond this important step from Scorpio and Sagittarius to full collective engagement.
Other Article on Chiron same site:
Saturn is just about to enter Virgo and the people are ready. It will be the start of the Saturn-Uranus opposition. I was reminded that Chiron is thought of as a bridge between these two entities.
Saturn builds walls and boundaries, and Uranus moves the individual beyond these boundaries into new dimensions, innovative mental territory, and utopian glimpses of the future. A space adventure away from ordinary life on earth, so well established by Saturn. The isolation imposed by the rigid boundaries is necessary for self-improvement, until the time comes to move beyond the constructs to engagement with society in a more expansive universal way. Uranus comes to break up the established order. How this is achieved is unpredictable.
There are many ways to get beyond the wall. There can be a violent breakthrough. There can be a methodical taking apart, sometimes after sudden disruption of some kind. There can be flight above or movement around it, or there can be a dematerializing of a sort and passage right through. I sometimes think that Saturn knows this will happen and possibly builds the walls with the passage in mind, leaving a weak point as we talked about. Do we sometimes miss the way through?
Chiron and Suffering
This connects to the other discussion about the cracks and weaknesses between the rocks being an opening to what is beyond Saturn. Chiron is one of those cracks between those rocks.
The one thing I'd like to see managed is the fixation on the raw pain you mentioned. I think this is one of Chiron's teachings. We live with it. Use it. Trying to find the people who caused it and inflicting punishment have never ever worked. Many people are crying over things that happened long ago, and miss the fact that there is raw difficulty right now to deal with. If attention is paid, maybe the past suffering would ease. There is a mechanism in humans to diminish this ongoing suffering in between bouts.
What facets of being human compel us to evolve and take things into ourselves instead of projecting and condemning those outside? The perfect example you deal with frequently is people with self loathing who hate the evil authorities. This is where I see Sagittarius and Jupiter at their best, when insight and the higher mind are turned inward to injest and digest shadow projections.
I remember vividly as a child one summer in camp when I was chosen to do a song and dance number. The song was Me and My Shadow, and it was done in cane and top hat style with one of the other kids as my shadow, as I recall. A very very memorable moment.
I'm convinced that Chiron is about teaching that suffering is not inflicted gratuitously, but meant to instruct. When a person opens up to cosmic dimensions there is a tendency to forget the pain. This is Chiron, who didn't complain about his wound. He found remedies. I've experienced this often when I'm in pain and go out in the world among people. I often forget about the hurt. So Chiron isn't concerned with opening old wounds. Just keeping them. He's interested in education and passage to broader dimensions understanding the place for pain. And I think Uranus frees people somewhat from the restrictions of these earthly wounds, the Saturnian reminders of limitation, as they leave their bodies to an extent in search of mental connection.
I am not covinced that Chiron is ruled by Virgo in the least.
It has a high affinity for placements in Tarus,Sag and Pisces IMO. Seeing that it orbits between Sa/Ur there might be a case for it being ruled`
As I mentioned a lot can be said for the time of the Return at 51yrs. old and the fact that in the SA chart it's a time for the Spetile aspect to be prominent.
The Teacher and Healing aspects of Chiron are highlighted. The wounding does not need be a nagging issue unless it is afflicted in the health houses.
As I also mentioned it does not seem well placed in Aries.Why I do not know or rather have not thought of he reason,but I have noticed tose having it placed there seem to have a bad time with it there.