Chiron square venus - unrequitted love
- Thread starter Abby83
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conspiracy theorist
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To show them the ephemeral nature of love between mortals
Abby83
Well-known member
You see it's interesting and very valid that you say this, because it is something I just don't understand and probably never will. If I love, I love. It's not temporary for me, it's either love or lust or passion. Time makes no difference to me. So that's why I cant understand how it can change. Like if I look at my first proper bf, I was in lust with him and I still appreciate the experience, but I wouldn't call it love and it definitely wasn't seasonal. My feelings remain the same for him despite him being bitter after I left. My love is eternal and I can love many. If love is ephemeral, then it doesn't feel like love at all. And I wouldn't even consider being in a marriage and it would mean that relationships are just seasonal sex?
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I believe that the previous answer is not correct. Venus doesn't speak about love because love is universal energy. Venus determines relationships.
One of the purposes may be to learn how to be content with yourself, your own personality or to learn you how to survive on your own resources through cutting you off from satisfactory relationships.
The problem here is that to describe purpose of Chiron contacts is very difficult as our weak spots are least known to us. There are surely another purposes of this aspect, what I've found in literature is that it confronts you with the darker side of relating, sexual competition, entanglement, emotional manipulation and underground power struggles (as M. Reinhart puts in). That means a need to learn about negative sides of relationships and set up realistic expectations.
It would be also good to specify what does the unrequited love means. Is it a yearning for a relationship which isn't answered by the other person? Or is it a kind of disinterest from a person who already is in the relationship with you?
The truth is that love isn't ephemeral as you say but human relationships are! You must love all the people or try it as Jesus teaches but love God first and unrequited love in its most common meaning pushes you into it.
One of the purposes may be to learn how to be content with yourself, your own personality or to learn you how to survive on your own resources through cutting you off from satisfactory relationships.
The problem here is that to describe purpose of Chiron contacts is very difficult as our weak spots are least known to us. There are surely another purposes of this aspect, what I've found in literature is that it confronts you with the darker side of relating, sexual competition, entanglement, emotional manipulation and underground power struggles (as M. Reinhart puts in). That means a need to learn about negative sides of relationships and set up realistic expectations.
It would be also good to specify what does the unrequited love means. Is it a yearning for a relationship which isn't answered by the other person? Or is it a kind of disinterest from a person who already is in the relationship with you?
The truth is that love isn't ephemeral as you say but human relationships are! You must love all the people or try it as Jesus teaches but love God first and unrequited love in its most common meaning pushes you into it.
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Abby83
Well-known member
Thanks for that useful post.
My definition of unrequired love is when you love someone, but they don't love you in the same way. For instance, I grew up loving my father, but when his gf gave him an ultimatum to choose between her and me, he chose her. This has been a recurring pattern for me. I meet a man. He's really sweet, and then I find out he's committed to someone else and he naturally chooses her. My husband is the same. We started out sweet and then it was clear his mother and brother were top of the list and I came 3rd or 4th. I now get treated like an object even though I'm trying to change that. I can now see the red flags that were there in the past but it doesn't change the fact that the guy just doesn't see me as important enough. Not as important as I treat him. I love in a nurturing peaceful caring way but can't ever find a man who does the same to me. Oh how I dream of a day a man will do that.
Abby83
Well-known member
You know that guy I was so hung up on from the past was a Gemini. We are two different ppl with very different paths and styles. I'm more addicted to the attention he gave me. The most incompatible aspect between us is that I'm all about going somewhere with the relationship - commitment. He was all about having fun that doesnt go anywhere. I've had fun with no commitment too, but I don't have respect or any of those men for allowing me to do so. My 8th house cusp is Gemini and I must say that for some bizarre reason he brings out intense emotional feelings in me that I can't understand. I used to think it had something to do with my father too, but that has already been dealt with. But the scenario is rather similar. He is a LOT like my father. I don't have any feelings for my father so I don't understand why I have emotions that pop up around this other guy. I guess he's reflecting what qualities I dislike in my father. But I don't know why I sometimes have loving feelings for him. He was so awful and I don't like anything about him other than his communication and appearance. So why do I feel love for him? I mean even if he contacted me now and said he wants me I would refuse. It would never work and we are not the same. So I'm not sure why I feel love for him. Interesting that in my natal chart Chiron is in Gemini squaring Venus and opposing Uranus (my father). It must be an issue with 8th house and Chiron being in Gemini cos I don't have a problem with sag. In fact, I love saggis ��. But Chiron trines 8th ruler and 11th ruler.
I can't put the chart up now but here are my birth details.
11th October 1983, Adelaide, South Australia, 7:31AM.
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jkxx74
Premium Member
Hi Abby,
Venus square Chiron as a natal aspect would equate to having your earlier life wounds highlighted in relationships (any that go beyond acquaintances) almost automatically where regardless of what happens your internal "read" of the relationship is that you are getting hurt. It would also conversely point to an attraction to those who are themselves hurt as this is Venus expressing interest in Chiron's themes through the square aspect.
In mythology Chiron is stricken by a poison arrow which causes him unending pain until he is made mortal and allowed to die (see http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm for a pretty disturbing interpretation of this) suggesting Chiron correlates with a kind of "hunger" that can never be satisfied in one's lifetime, so one takes on Chiron's other qualities and becomes well versed in healing techniques related to the planets Chiron touches in an attempt to heal the pain. So combine this with Venus and you get a deeply reflective attitude on the wounding aspects of relationships as they are along with later on an attitude on how to minimize this that you'll find yourself teaching to others.
I did make up your chart and you do indeed have Venus also square Uranus and that is another troublesome aspect to have in one's chart especially with Chiron opposite Uranus; Uranus appears in mythology where he expels his children from the skies because they aren't perfect and he can't stand that so he loosely correlates with the ideal that is real until it becomes real through creation. The implications with Venus are that Uranus gets activated in any significant relationship and may predispose you to think the relationship is over if it's any less than perfect - but since it's also the "expect the unexpected" planet it can just as well point to sudden beginnings and endings to relationships that seem to come out of nowhere without any reason for them to be this way.
You have Venus connected to two difficult outer planets (centaur in the case of Chiron) and they are pushing Venus to do things she doesn't relate to very well - so this could express itself quite literally as having strange and not particularly pleasant encounters in your relationships especially at first.
Venus square Chiron as a natal aspect would equate to having your earlier life wounds highlighted in relationships (any that go beyond acquaintances) almost automatically where regardless of what happens your internal "read" of the relationship is that you are getting hurt. It would also conversely point to an attraction to those who are themselves hurt as this is Venus expressing interest in Chiron's themes through the square aspect.
In mythology Chiron is stricken by a poison arrow which causes him unending pain until he is made mortal and allowed to die (see http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_wounding_e.htm for a pretty disturbing interpretation of this) suggesting Chiron correlates with a kind of "hunger" that can never be satisfied in one's lifetime, so one takes on Chiron's other qualities and becomes well versed in healing techniques related to the planets Chiron touches in an attempt to heal the pain. So combine this with Venus and you get a deeply reflective attitude on the wounding aspects of relationships as they are along with later on an attitude on how to minimize this that you'll find yourself teaching to others.
I did make up your chart and you do indeed have Venus also square Uranus and that is another troublesome aspect to have in one's chart especially with Chiron opposite Uranus; Uranus appears in mythology where he expels his children from the skies because they aren't perfect and he can't stand that so he loosely correlates with the ideal that is real until it becomes real through creation. The implications with Venus are that Uranus gets activated in any significant relationship and may predispose you to think the relationship is over if it's any less than perfect - but since it's also the "expect the unexpected" planet it can just as well point to sudden beginnings and endings to relationships that seem to come out of nowhere without any reason for them to be this way.
You have Venus connected to two difficult outer planets (centaur in the case of Chiron) and they are pushing Venus to do things she doesn't relate to very well - so this could express itself quite literally as having strange and not particularly pleasant encounters in your relationships especially at first.
Abby83
Well-known member
I agree that this placement reflects past wounds to heal. The situation with the guy from when I was younger was the exact same situation as my father. I mean it was quick but he did exactly the same thing my father did so now I can see the whole purpose of this scenario was to teach me that what they did was not ok. Naturally being my father I had love for him. But psychotherapy helped with that. It's not healthy for me to love someone like that. Btw I met that guy when t Uranus was in grand cross with Venus Chiron and Uranus.
As for healing men through relationships, that's how I feel. I healed that guy and threw him straight into the arms of another woman which was great for him but painful for me. I'm also healing my husband but it is positive for both of us. We both have mars sextile Chiron synastry.
Thank you for your useful reply. I'm curious to know what will happen when t Uranus conjuncts Chiron. No doubt probably another replay. And because of Uranus being involved it adds too buch of a disturbing shock which makes me very uncomfortable. It may mean I will need more psychotherapy to deal with that shockingly inappropriately behaviour.
Abby83
Well-known member
I also want to add that I think my lesson here is to be able to recognise shockingly inappropriate ppl like this quickly and try to get away from them as best I can. My mother in law is also ruled by Uranus and gets in the way of my healing. All three of these ppl chase me cos I heal them by naturally making them feel good about themselves, but in return I feel horrible because they hurt me and disturb me at the same time. The more they chase me the worse I feel. Vampire's a good word.
jkxx74
Premium Member
Yes, I think you are right about t Uranus causing problems when it comes in to trigger the Venus-Uranus-Chiron t-square. Although which planet it hits will determine how you'll experience the hit this time around.
A couple of points about the latest add you made - it is possible that Venus-Chiron adds to the pain you get from being used up and drained by these people but it is just as likely to be your Venus in Virgo [with the same theme exacerbated by square to Jupiter] - Venus in Virgo makes you identify with other people's needs very readily (because it feels good to be useful) and you can end up with people who become demanding and start taking your devotion for granted. It seems you are aware of this as you are keeping your distance from them but it's in your Venus' nature to relate and help out so the best way to handle it might be to just focus on those who are worthy of your time.
The other bit is on Venus square Uranus - people with this particular aspect are very sensitive to others in relationships (usually there is a vague sense that the person will bolt when least expected) and that can also be used against you by manipulative people once they pick up on it. Best defense here that I'm aware of is to allow your secure relationships to act as a sort of shield that desensitizes you to the ones where you're not too sure where you stand - that way the worries are lower and that gives the not so nice individuals less power to push you around.
A couple of points about the latest add you made - it is possible that Venus-Chiron adds to the pain you get from being used up and drained by these people but it is just as likely to be your Venus in Virgo [with the same theme exacerbated by square to Jupiter] - Venus in Virgo makes you identify with other people's needs very readily (because it feels good to be useful) and you can end up with people who become demanding and start taking your devotion for granted. It seems you are aware of this as you are keeping your distance from them but it's in your Venus' nature to relate and help out so the best way to handle it might be to just focus on those who are worthy of your time.
The other bit is on Venus square Uranus - people with this particular aspect are very sensitive to others in relationships (usually there is a vague sense that the person will bolt when least expected) and that can also be used against you by manipulative people once they pick up on it. Best defense here that I'm aware of is to allow your secure relationships to act as a sort of shield that desensitizes you to the ones where you're not too sure where you stand - that way the worries are lower and that gives the not so nice individuals less power to push you around.
Abby83
Well-known member
I can see you know what you are talking about and you describe my chart well. I agree with what you say. I'm also a libra so love and harmony is important to me. I don't know where my strong desire to be Uranian comes from but I have a strong need for freedom, spontaneity, variety, attention, doing different things, yet this is conflicting in the chart. I mean Uranus is not supported in my chart and Saturn seems to rule over. In other words this plays out in my life by me wishing I could have a break here and there and have fun and be rebellious, but my destiny holds me down, restricts me and says be responsible, stick to your goals, be stable and sensible. Although the latter gives me the stability I need, it is rather boring! But my chart supports the seriousness in me.
You give good advice. Yes my stable life and relationship defends me from those who would turn my life into turmoil. I can even see that now I have built the secure life with my husband my father is now trying to be like my husband lol. Thank you for helping me realise all of this. So even though I may be bored I think all the excitement I could ge from Uranian types would just blow my life apart and destroy me.
One other thing someone pointed out is that Venus is my husband who is severely wounded by his mother (Uranus) and Chiron in his house.
jkxx74
Premium Member
I'm glad that resonates with you - part of it might be because I also have Venus-Mars square Uranus although placed in different and more incompatible signs.
As for the Uranian tendencies, you can start with your Sun - it is in Venus-ruled Libra while Venus in your chart squares Uranus and Libra itself is part of the airy trigon - along with Uranus-ruled Aquarius. So Uranus indirectly rules over your Sun while it's conjunct your Moon - both luminaries there, while Saturn only directly affects Venus and Mars by major aspect. Saturn does get a massive boost from Pluto but it rules significant others (through sextile with Venus and Venus-ruled descendant) more than you in this case.
I'll agree Uranus can wreck one's life in a flash and when combined with Venus the result is a long trail of tears if actually played out - so Saturnian attachments make sense as a way to keep it in check. But you can still engage Uranian studies such as astrology to keep the excitement up but in a safe way.
If the circumstances fit and that really is your husband's story it is possible. Some of the books I've been reading suggest we conspire to recreate the patterns of our natal chart in some fashion and if not by taking action ourselves it will be through our relationships. And this sort of does add up when the planet in question is Venus and in your case with natal Chiron falling in Venus' house (7th.)
As for the Uranian tendencies, you can start with your Sun - it is in Venus-ruled Libra while Venus in your chart squares Uranus and Libra itself is part of the airy trigon - along with Uranus-ruled Aquarius. So Uranus indirectly rules over your Sun while it's conjunct your Moon - both luminaries there, while Saturn only directly affects Venus and Mars by major aspect. Saturn does get a massive boost from Pluto but it rules significant others (through sextile with Venus and Venus-ruled descendant) more than you in this case.
I'll agree Uranus can wreck one's life in a flash and when combined with Venus the result is a long trail of tears if actually played out - so Saturnian attachments make sense as a way to keep it in check. But you can still engage Uranian studies such as astrology to keep the excitement up but in a safe way.
If the circumstances fit and that really is your husband's story it is possible. Some of the books I've been reading suggest we conspire to recreate the patterns of our natal chart in some fashion and if not by taking action ourselves it will be through our relationships. And this sort of does add up when the planet in question is Venus and in your case with natal Chiron falling in Venus' house (7th.)
Abby83
Well-known member
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Abby83
Well-known member
Ahaha well I love your posts so you may have to write a book 😊.
I can help you understand the aspect better by looking at the synastry between you and your man. It will help to explain in more specific terms, rather than keeping it all on an esoteric level. We'll connect on that later. I'm just super sick and buried in work right now. :-(
Abby83
Well-known member
Yep. Yep. And yep 😊. You're doing an amazing job for someone who has the flu!
I'm going to apologise in advance to other astrologers before writing this post because I know how annoying it must be reading me go back and forth regarding my love situations with my husband and past men.
So... I love your description of Venus. You know, I get a lot of projection from other ppl saying what I should and shouldn't be ok with regarding body image and diet. It's the one thing I can't stand about ppl - the whole focus is on a woman's body. I just like being myself and natural. Also, I hate how I'm treated as a mother too. Like we are not valued.
When you talk about feeling there is a downfall with idealising Venus - yes. When things didn't work out with the guy I loved so many yrs ago, he chose a woman who was everything I was not. It made me feel inadequate and I spent the rest of my years trying to fill those needs that I thought I needed, that I thought was inadequate. And guess what? Once I did it, even for a month I released it. For example I was intimidated she was a teacher and was so clear headed at such a young age. It brought up issues of my father not providing so I could go to uni to get a proper job and therefore have a proper man. Thing is, years later I went to uni. I was there for 6 months. Felt satisfied, then left. It released the pain of feeling unworthy and I also realised I didn't need to feel pressured to have a university type of career to feel valued as a person. I'm also realising the material world is not as great as it seems. I'm meeting so many miserable rich ppl who don't know how to live. I was happier when I was poor.
You said 'is this pain worth it?' My answer - no. I'm experiencing this exact thing now with my husband. Is the psychological abuse him and his family are giving me worth staying simply because he has the high paying job and according to them he is more important? No.
You said 'why doesn't my partner understand what I need in love?' Because his family mob group is more important to him than anything else, including me. 'Am I ok with this?' No. 'Am I worth more than this?' Yes.
You said 'why am I so ugly or fat?' Because the psychological abuse is affecting my energy, metabolism, and daily routines.
If you read the last three paragraphs you can totally see Chiron at play.
I agree about the kundalini energy. If a man is receptive and compassionate towards my dilemmas by listening and understanding and relating, then I feel the love and care and it arouses me. A caring understanding partner who listens to me heals me. I mean I remember just recently I briefly met a young man who was sweet and kind to me and listened and all and his positive energy aroused me. Sexually, I need it. It's what unlocks the gate. So let's just say all of this criticism I get and comments of why I'm not good enough coming from my husband's side is blocking my sexual desire. You can't tell a woman over and over again that she's useless and then three hours later finish off with 'so let's have sexy time.' And then complain that she's chubby during sex!!
It's interesting that my mother in law is Uranus in opposition to Chiron because I find she does anything she can to stop my potential to heal. She is that cruel.
So if I understand you correctly you are saying that the purpose of this aspect is to understand myself better? I think that's true. But it's taking a long time. There's a different lesson with each relationship. If there is a lesson I have learnt it is to never ever sacrifice anything to be in the relationship. I need a lot of freedom and think an independent relationship is best. Sacrificing only showed ppl I was not important and invited abuse which then occurred with more ppl as time passed. I made sacrifices every week to be with my husband and there comes a time when you realise your needs are important too and you just want your life back again. And with all this talk about self worth it's fitting that Uranus will enter Taurus soon. That will be a prime time for me to break free.
Abby83
Well-known member
Yeah no worries, don't trouble yourself 😊. But I'll still reply and you can get back when you're ready.
I can't put the chart in now but I can give details.
Mine - 11th October 1983, Adelaide, South Australia, 7:31AM.
Him - 17th April 1979, Adelaide, South Australia, 8:30pm.
Basically, so much damage has been done to me in this marriage that I will be leaving next year. I look forward to getting my life back.