Mars in Detriment = More competitive

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What I have noticed with Mars in detriment is that it seems to act more competitively. Maybe it is an act of compensation, but I have noticed in general that planets in detriment/fall often have greater strength because there is an obstacle to overcome, the planet has to work harder. Mars in Taurus (detriment) is in Race car driver Dale Earnhardt's natal chart and Muhammad Ali's natal chart, the heavyweight boxer. Mars in Libra (detriment) can be seen in Tonya Harding's chart, the Ice skating champion, and the first American woman to complete a triple Axel jump in competition. Obviously there was some controversy involved etc. Barbara Walters another Mars in Libra, was the first woman to co-anchor network news. I can't think of examples for Mars in Cancer. In most cases Mars is square to Pluto in three charts which often describes a "ruthless competitor" and Mars is conjunct Uranus which often describes a "self-willed" individual. However, I do believe that if you have a planet that is struggling in the natal chart, you are given an opportunity to achieve a deeper understanding of the planet involved.

All of these individuals don't appear to have a "weak" or "afflicted" Mars in the way the outside world would view them through their sporting/career achievements. Inwardly they may have felt tension but this seemed to work in their favour. I noticed through my studies how planets in fall & "afflicted" seem to result in a powerful display of the planet involved. I can see there are flaws in this argument and there will be examples of exalted Mars in other competitive natal charts, but it's still an interesting observation, and maybe traditional astrology needs to revise how "detrimental" having a planet in detriment or fall is. The traditional readings are valid in the sense of how the planet operates in a sign, but how the individual reacts is not considered.

Here is Kevin Burks interpretation on Detrimental planets: The interpretation is true. However, I feel if you rigidly stick to the traditional interpretation by stating a planet is extremely "weak" etc when placed in certain astrological signs, you can go wrong in interpretation. I agree on the whole with the traditional rulerships, but the interpretation needs more of a psychological understanding. The individual often does feel challenged in the area of the detrimental planet, but it isn't all doom and gloom. And where we fall, we learn lessons, and as the saying goes "If at first you don't succeed, try, try, again. Persistence always pays off in the end.

Like the Sun, Mars is masculine, active, focused, and single-minded. Mars is happiest when it is able to express itself freely and directly. Mars is very much like the engine of our car: it doesn’t care where it’s going, and it doesn’t care who’s doing the driving. All it cares about is that it’s moving.

Taurus, of course, is the slowest-moving sign in the Zodiac. Taurus is deliberate, methodical, practical, and glacial. When Mars is in Taurus, Mars is weighted down and prevented from taking action as quickly and impulsively as it would like. In Taurus, Mars worries about finding a practical, sensible, stable course of action. Mars in Taurus can grow extremely frustrated, and very angry. The less action it is able to take, the more the pressure builds.

Libra, as a Cardinal Air sign is a far more active energy than Taurus, and Mars in Libra is free to move as it pleases. The challenge with Mars in Libra is that Libra, like all Air signs, is a double sign. Mars, like the Sun, needs a single focus. When presented with choices, Mars finds it difficult to act. Mars in Libra worries about the effects of its choices. Libra tells Mars that it must maintain balance and harmony at all times, but taking any action will always upset that balance, because every action has an equal and opposite reaction. While Mars in Taurus knows what it wants to do and finds it difficult to take action, Mars in Libra is free to take action, but is often immobilized by indecision about which course of action to choose.

Agree/Disagree :) .
 
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lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi shining Ray,
Interesting that you raise this right now. I am in the middle of interpreting a natal chart where the native, a woman, has mars in Libra right on h7 cusp.
Her chart ruler is Mars, so it's a significant placement.
At first I thought she might experience domestic bullying. Mars in H7 is often said to be involved with that scenario.
She has been successful in her business interests and is married to a very alpha-male type who she tells me is *very insecure*, but she assures me they don't get into fisticuffs.
After I spoke with her about her relationships to her partners I realised she is a *freedom fighter* in her relationships.

She has never wanted to have to adopt an enforced role of being *the good little wife*.She has wanted to call her time her own.Hers has been more of an idealogical struggle to maintain her own identity whilst keeping the peace in her relationships.She admitted to being slow to take necessary action sometimes and to *put up with too much from people*.

I have the chart also of a male with his mars in libra, retrograde in his twelfth house.Again mars is the chart ruler.
Unfortunately this afflicted mars is opposite a sun/merc conjunction (in aries) and square a moon/uranus conjunction (in cancer)> Ouch ouch ouch.
In his case, he has been paralysed by a fear of taking actions as in his early life his actions often had quite disastrous outcomes..that T-square involves 5 planets so you can imagine what havoc is wreaked by transits.He has found it hard to get ahead in life.An aries sun with a libra mars. hmmm.Some would say he hasnt *tried*.He described his life as being like *kicking **** up hill*.:)

I think Mars very much wants to act like Mars and really doesnt want to act like venus at all. It would have a weakening effect.But as Libra is a sign that tempers the forces and tries to balance them it could make mars *behave* a lot better (being in Libra).
As for Mars in Taurus. To me this is especially debilitated. It is the polarity of the Scorpio side of mars (what I call the *shadow* side of Mars.).
Taurus is also a fixed sign and mars in Taurus is a most formidable opponent-interestingly, I have seen this placement in the charts of both singers and gardeners where it bestows an enormous amount of perseverance and physical strength.Think *bull in a china shop* for the downside.:)
I doubt that mars in Libra would be more competitive (it wouldnt be more competitive than mars in Aries!!!) but I do feel Mars in Taurus could play out that way.Great determination there that's missing in the cardinal libra.
I'll see what other charts I have.:)
Cheers,
Lillyjgc
 
i have mars in pisces, so no detriment here, but it's a strange position for mars, i could say that it is some dualistic position, energies are like silent waters or furious "charybde & scylla " waters. Sometimes you can't even do the easier things to do in life and sometimes you can do the only-god-things-u-can't-do-on-earth : i have a mars square neptune, i always underestimate me, though i have few great moments when i succeed that makes me feel so empyrean, coming to any challengers trying to defy me or not, telling: " you can't defeat me !"
 

tsquare

Well-known member
I am biased, being I have mars in fall.
Mars is one of the most aspected planets in my chart.
It shares that with Pluto being that the two planets are conj.

List of mars aspects.
Mars in Libra, In fall, Third house, Ruler of the 9th House.
Conj pluto, 1 degree orb
Conj Saturn,
Conj Jupiter
Square mercury
Square Sun
Sextile Moon
Sextile Neptune
Opposite MC
Trine Venus

I might as well just post the chart.
Ignore the Transits.





This is an old picture...I suppose it is from the year 2000, when we were supposed to already have flying cars.
We didn't have flying cars.
I blame this on the Nazis.
IF your a Nazi you know what I'm talking about.

Moving on....
this is an old HS Wrestling button . I didn't really want to be IN Wrestling.....I was too lazy for all that...but after a while it wasn't all that bad..meaning, I didn't have a choice and I just accepted it for what it was.
I used to hurt people for fun. (Joke) It wasn't all for fun, but after awhile, you find yourself not so bothered by violence anymore, bloody noses, scrapes, bruises, skinned knees and broken bones, it all comes with the territory and after a while....you get..."tougher".....you can confront more force...it's not that you thicken up and go numb....I ended up more aggressive, and confrontations didn't bother me so much...still, I always ended up in trouble from coach for talking to the enemy during tournaments, that was a nono, they were the enemy...I would be over on the other teams sideline talking about Nintendo or whatever.






After a while you also get used to parading around half naked in blue stretchy stuff...it bothers one little after a while and you don't even notice that your balls are, for the most part, way out there for al the world to see.
It's like forgetting the sunglasses are still on your head....you just don't think about it anymore.
Leaned allot from the experience.
Confidence, Violence, hard work, and a comfortableness with public nudity.

To add some scale to the picture, I was 6' 3" 171 lbs.
171 lbs on tournament day.....because I had to be 171 lbs for tournament day....which was the weekends, Saturdays, weekly...with maybe one event during the week on Thursdays......
So...from Saturday night till Monday morning...I was around 185-189.
I was down to around maybe 2% body fat at the time.
I was very unhealthy, dehydrated, and stupid.
Lets just say that it is very unhealthy, meaning, don't do it.

After wrestling I was around 210 and healthy.

Muscle weighs more then fat.
I'm around maybe 178, 179...who knows....I shrunk for the most part....no lifting weights for 8 years...I'd rather "meditate". I look more like a human being now.

I suppose I could talk more about mars but it took a year and a half to figure out how to scan a picture(first time, new scanner), let alone upload the pictures to image shack....eyes are tired, maybe later.


Do I look like Barbra Walters? I think I look like Barbra Walters.
(joking)
 

seiw83

Active member
HI,
it is veryinteresting, i was thinking about that for a some time, because i have mars in taurus 11 th house, and i am realy copetitive i d i want to, if i have a goal i wont give up, especialy 11 th house is a good position for mars. the problem is tha bull is a very powerful sign(earth) and i is kind of tham for mars, it can gather this energy and i can use it when i want and how i want, and when you are angry(mars is not free) you try to fight so probably in this difficult field mars can generate more energy because it is real chalange. besiede mars conjuct my merkury, so it is oly wise using energe purpose, but generally i thik to long before i start foing something and i regret that offten. i have just a very strong fuse, need to learn live with that.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi,

Though per some astrological rules Mars is said to be weak in Taurus, and this patience-demanding placement for it is usually seen to be stifling keeping its go-getter even barging nature in mind, but I have seen some very good and sensible use of the Martian energy in Taurus in quite a few charts.

To take the e.g. of two people I know of them one has Mars in Taurus and the other Mars in Aries: the Mars in Taurus person seems to usually use this energy where he knows/feels that it will pay dividends, and it takes a lot to provoke him for the bull in him to see red (he has a Gem Sun, btw). The other person is quite the opposite. Small provocations become an 'eye-for-an-eye' matter for him (Sun in Pisces). On the other hand, the second person can be very easily won for a task/ is easy to encourage, whilst the first one would have reasons against investing his energies in something, but these reasons, most of the times, make sense, as 'action' is taken only after careful thought.

I, therefore, just wanted to point out that Taurus can 'tame' Mars in a way/particular direction, instead of just scattering its energies away (as usually happens when in a fire sign). Mars becomes more the slow and steady, the silently persevering sort (somethig quite contrary to its true 'rash' nature), with some rather high-paying results ensuing. In reality, therefore, I do not find Mars that badly placed in Taurus actually, where it learns to be more practical and patient. How easily it can imbibe these qualities will then depend on its aspects and, in general, on the rest of the chart, as usual.

:)aquarius7000
(with a Cap Mars)
 
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Hi Lilly,

Interesting examples, Mars in Libra & 7th could be active in working partnerships, mars could easily be projected in the 7th house. It's often been said with 12th house Mars that the issues surrounding this planet has been going on for generations through the family. Mars in Libra or Taurus will have it's struggles, and it may not express itself as easily as Mars in Aries or Scorpio. Mars in detriment seems to be more competitive. If I have time later I will check more sporty charts.

Hi entervisions,

Mars in Pisces is a harder position only because the planet and sign seem at cross purposes. However, you should never underestimate your strength and when you use the energy constructively and in Neptune's realm you can achieve a lot.

Hi T,square

Thanks for the chart example, my little boy has just been pointing at the computer saying "funny head" :D You will have to challenge him to a wrestling match, but beware he has Mars in detriment (Taurus) grrr. Having an active Mars helps with energy, push, drive, strength. But Mars in Detriment has shown up a lot in competitive sporting activities or were you have to compete with others, maybe this is part of having Mars in Libra. I have a strong Neptune and violence scares me lol, I have a sensitive disposition., play the violins, speaking of violins it's not flying cars you want, take a look at this, a peep into the future lol http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=EzjkBwZtxp4
 
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Hi Seiw83,

You right that the Bull is a powerful energy and it seems to hold it's energy until it builds up and it comes out with great force. I definitely believe Mars in Taurus can be just as powerful as it's opposite Mars in Scorpio.

Hi Aquarius,

My ex partner had Mars in Aries but it was opposed by Saturn, he was very weak when it came to defending himself with other men, he would only fight me a woman :rolleyes: . I wonder if it is more frustrating to have Mars well placed by sign but challenged by Saturn. I have often thought the same for Sun in Leo opposed Saturn. Mars can wait in Taurus so perhaps this is a strength, it burns slowly, although the racing driver with Mars in Taurus had Jupiter in Aries.

Hi Munckhin,

Thanks for the Mars in Cancer example for some reason I never had examples for this placement. I agree Pluto in aspect to Mars always adds amazing power, strength, drive. It seems there are lifelong lessons with planets in detriment/fall.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
My ex partner had Mars in Aries but it was opposed by Saturn, he was very weak when it came to defending himself with other men, he would only fight me a woman :rolleyes: . I wonder if it is more frustrating to have Mars well placed by sign but challenged by Saturn. I often thought the same for Sun in Leo opposed Saturn. Mars can wait in Taurus so perhaps this is a strength, it burns slowly, although the racing driver with Mars in Taurus had Jupiter in Aries.
Ray,
The placement of a planet in a sign shows how its energies are coloured/'tempered' and employed by that sign. Taurus is a slow and patient sign and this is how it colours (tames) Mars. It also tries to employ (put to use) these energies for more practical purposes. This, however, is just talking about 'one' planet in a sign alone, which is what I had mainly discussed in my previous post and, like I said there: How easily it can imbibe these qualities will then depend on its aspects and, in general, on the rest of the chart, as usual. Then you have to see how much fire (as we are talking about fiery Mars) the native has in general in his chart. After that, the aspects that this Mars makes to other planets show how fine-tuned and further tempered it is. For e.g. Mars in Taurus when unaspected will be under maximum control of Taurus and so very Taurean like. On the other hand, if in an aspect to another planet (especially a stronger one), it will have to then adapt itself and will be further 'tuned' by it, so if in an aspect to Saturn, it will feel even more 'controlled', perhaps even bottled-up.

To take the e.g. of my Cap Mars, which is in tight (main) aspects to Saturn, Pluto, Venus and conjuncts Moon (though here Mars tempers Moon) - all this hardly leaves Mars in its true (fiery/rash) nature. Firstly, Mars is coloured (or modified) by Capricorn (most of my energy goes into achieving my career ambitions, and are quite 'channelled' in a particular direction). Then it is further fine-tuned by Saturn (my energies/anger are/is quite controlled), Pluto and Venus. Though the Mars-Moon conjunct gives me quite 'flurried' and quick emotions, but Saturn controls the Martian energy and Pluto adds a lot of intensity to them. So, though I do not have such a quick temper, but I know that I can potentially explode once in a blue moon, if pushed too far.

:)aquarius7000
 
Aquarius,

I understand how the sign modifies the planet, but I feel Mars in detriment can have a competitive side, even if it is disposited by Venus, the planet of equality, compromise, values. Look at Mr Ego Simon Cowell, Sun in fall Libra, Mars in detriment Libra, he aint no pushover and he has a competitive streak. Sun conjunct Mars. Mercury/Mars is also conjunct in Libra. All I am saying Mars ain't a pushover in detriment :D . Just watch em lol.
 

Leon

Well-known member
You should read about the Pisces effect. It's a website with PROVEN studies on which signs are great at which sports. Ali has his Sun in Capricorn. Capricornians came back as the champs for boxing. Plenty of prize fighters, boxers, have the Sun in Capricorn.

Anyways regarding why having a Taurus Mars could be helpful for boxing. Just look at the sport. It takes patience, discipline, and even some stubbornness. You have to wake up early in the morning to go run the streets while everyone is flat out asleep, there's no one telling you to go do it, and no "teammates" to motivate you. Then you drill in the same old movements over and over, countless repetitions. Now here's the fun part, the fighting. Most people typically get their asses beaten during the first few sparring sessions, and fights. This is where the stubbornness comes in, because this is where the average person will quit the sport. They realize that they "don't like to get hit", so boxing isn't for them.

Speaking for Ali his Mars is in his 10th house, so of course he's going to get easier recognition from the world for being a warrior.

Becoming good at a sport takes serious time, dedication, discipline, and effort. It's no joke. It's dangerous to assume some random person will become good at sports just because they have their Mars in some harmony loving signs, so they "struggle".
 
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Leon

Well-known member
tsquare said:
Leon,


Thanks, I'll give it a look when I have some time.



TS
Capricornians, Aquarians, and Pisceans were generally considered the "athletically gifted" signs. Good luck with the site.
 

rogue_red

Well-known member
Leon said:
You should read about the Pisces effect. It's a website with PROVEN studies on which signs are great at which sports. Ali has his Sun in Capricorn. Capricornians came back as the champs for boxing. Plenty of prize fighters, boxers, have the Sun in Capricorn.

Anyways regarding why having a Taurus Mars could be helpful for boxing. Just look at the sport. It takes patience, discipline, and even some stubbornness. You have to wake up early in the morning to go run the streets while everyone is flat out asleep, there's no one telling you to go do it, and no "teammates" to motivate you. Then you drill in the same old movements over and over, countless repetitions. Now here's the fun part, the fighting. Most people typically get their asses beaten during the first few sparring sessions, and fights. This is where the stubbornness comes in, because this is where the average person will quit the sport. They realize that they "don't like to get hit", so boxing isn't for them.

Speaking for Ali his Mars is in his 10th house, so of course he's going to get easier recognition from the world for being a warrior.

Becoming good at a sport takes serious time, dedication, discipline, and effort. It's no joke. It's dangerous to assume some random person will become badAZZ at sports just because they have their Mars in some harmony loving signs, so they "struggle".

I went to that website but i cant find the data analysis. To be honest i really do doubt the validity of this study. He hasnt made any mention of all the other variables that can influence the outcomes. Sounds like he's trying to sell something.:cool:
 
Hi Leon,

Yes Taurus does have patience, and Mars in Taurus can have a lot of strength. Perseverance and staying power. Once the bull sees red it's full force can be felt.

I was reading Astrology for Lovers last night, and I will give a quote from the book below as I am wondering whether it's the shadow side that is operating in Taurus & Libra.

But there is a secret underside to every sign too. Anything that casts light also casts a shadow. The shadow side being the opposite sign. Aries is opposite to Libra, and Scorpio is opposite to Taurus.

The stable, calm, reliable Taurus? Yes, he is the one who is always reasonable, slow to anger, patient. The beast of burden who will cheerfully take your burdens off your back and never complain. Gentle peaceable easy going. Who would guess that there is a passionate, unreasonable, demanding, possessive side to him that secretly provokes those very crisis that he hates so much, and pushes him into changes and chaotic crisis that he would do anything or pay anything to avoid.? Taurus loves stability and intensely dislikes change. But the secret theoretical destructive side keeps trying to bring the play to a violent climax. The Librian man may be plagued by unconscious aggressiveness, egocentricity and rudeness, just when he is trying hard to be polite.

This may be the reason why I have found Mars in detriment particularly competitive. I have read a few forum boards which have posted Librarian charts and claimed they do nothing but fight lol. Always trying to find the balance is Libra. Maybe it's the opposite shadow sign which creates the competitiveness.
 
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Leon

Well-known member
Shining Ray said:
Hi Leon,

Yes Taurus does have patience, and Mars in Taurus can have a lot of strength. Perseverance and staying power. Once the bull sees red it's full force can be felt.

I was reading Astrology for Lovers last night, and I will give a quote from the book below as I am wondering whether it's the shadow side that is operating in Taurus & Libra.



This may be the reason why I have found Mars in detriment particularly competitive. I have read a few forum boards which have posted Librarian charts and claimed they do nothing but fight lol. Always trying to find the balance is Libra. Maybe it's the opposite shadow sign which creates the competitiveness.
Interesting, I wonder if having the other planets in detriment would make people express that kind of energy more.

Reading that quote from your book reminds me of this Taurus girl that hated it whenever I took pictures. She suspected me of using them to attention whore via showing it off to other girls. Definitely unreasonable, demanding, and possessive.
so Taurus are really hardcore deep down inside, and their opposite signs Scorps are actually chill little bugs?:confused:
 
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Hi Leon,

I am not saying all this is definite, but another example is Hitler who had three planets in Taurus including Mars in Taurus (detriment), maybe his Scorpion destructive shadow side was playing out. I am not sure what it means, it may not mean anything significant, you are always best coming to your own conclusions. The traditional reading of planets in detriment are right all I am saying is I have seen a lot of charts with Mars in Libra/Taurus who have been very competitive. I never find Mars in Taurus or Libra to be weak. Strong Librians in particular I have found to be argumentative even though they claim to want fairness, equality and justice etc, but in some cases they become the instigators of arguments. I am not saying it's done maliciously but they are unconscious of it, and if you say anything about it they get angry at you :D. I am a Pisces maybe my Shadow Virgo criticism, and nit picking is coming out.
 

iwonder

Well-known member
Shining Ray said:
Strong Librians in particular I have found to be argumentative even though they claim to want fairness, equality and justice etc, but in some cases they become the instigators of arguments. I am not saying it's done maliciously but they are unconscious of it, and if you say anything about it they get angry at you :D. I am a Pisces maybe my Shadow Virgo criticism, and nit picking is coming out.
Ray,

My Mars is in Libra. I wanted to say, my fights are for justice, if anything, but then I read your last post :D You know, it is true. I do want to argue (Mars also rules my 3rd house, Aries), and I often do it to shake things up, throw them off balance. Well, my Mars is in tight conjunction with Pluto and not so tight with Virgo Sun. But I sincerely stand for justice and equality and fight for it.

I am not into sports, never really have been. But I am competitive in whatever else I do. I want my project to be chosen, I want my presentation to be the most wowing, etc. I want to be the best (at least for myself), and if I know I wont, I will not try. Losing is very painful. When I know someone my age or younger being more successful, it makes me somewhat restless and I try harder. On the other hand, while I am bothered by competitiveness, acting upon it is another issue. Sometimes I only think about it, but eventually do nothing. Libra :rolleyes: When I compete, I do it hard, but I don't always choose to compete.

I think Libra Mars spends its energy weighing its actions. Person cannot (whether for innate reasons or due to environment requirements) act on impulse, as pure Mars energy would want. My husband has Mars/Sun conjunction in 1st house Scorpio. I could never get by with what he can: showing off his temper, openly imposing his will and such. I want (and the environments requires me) to be more diplomatic and considerate. And to maintain the drive while yielding to others requires a great deal of Martian energy. So in people with Mars in fall/detriment, what you see is only a top of the iceberg :)
 
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