2house or 3 house moon

lilopinpin

Well-known member
hey yall,

i was just wondering how cusps really work? i have for example my asc on 28 degree gemini, does that make me asc gemini with a touch of cancer? since cancer is the most predominant sign in the 1st house?

and would you consider that i have a 2nd house moon? because i dont really identify with the descriptions i read, maybe i just didn't really "get" it..

thanks :)

have a nice day
 

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JUPITERASC

Well-known member
hey yall,

i was just wondering how cusps really work? i have for example my asc on 28 degree gemini, does that make me asc gemini with a touch of cancer? since cancer is the most predominant sign in the 1st house?

and would you consider that i have a 2nd house moon? because i dont really identify with the descriptions i read, maybe i just didn't really "get" it..

thanks :)

have a nice day
Hey thanks lilopinpin, as dr. farr has briefly mentioned - the house location of any natal planet
is entirely dependent on the house system chosen :smile:
a fact easily verified by creating alternative natal charts
using a selection of any of the fourteen different house systems
on offer at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page


EXPLANATORY ASTROLOGICAL HOUSES ARTICLE http://www.librarising.com/astrology/misc/wholesignhouses.html


QUOTE

'...In no other area of astrology is there so much mess and confusion than in the area of the so-called "houses".
There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable or meant the same thing.
A planet in Aries was also a planet in the house of Aries
,
so that in effect. there were no real houses as we know them today....'


'….Artificial divisions now known as houses were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus to measure strength "points" in the horoscope,
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed or confused as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites, for example, were definite power points or areas of intense focus,
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant.
In fact, there is no real basis for the astrological houses at all.
They derive from a misunderstanding of the true nature of the Ascendant and Midheaven factors in astrology,
Ascendant representing Earth/terrestial sphere, and Midheaven representing Sky/Heaven /celestial sphere....'


'...If any house system should be used at all, it should be the Whole Sign House system, where the ascendant sign becomes the whole first house and the others follow. Ascendant point can then fall anywhere in the first house and the midheaven point anywhere in the upper half of the chart. The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks and the Hindus(who still use it today). It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence, and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made on the issue over the last 1300 years or so....'


WHOLE SIGN OR PLACIDUS http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39669
 

lilopinpin

Well-known member
thanks i never considered using whole sign houses, it does seem to make sense, except the mars going from 12th to 1st seems a bit of a radical change
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
thanks i never considered using whole sign houses, it does seem to make sense, except the mars going from 12th to 1st seems a bit of a radical change
Keep in mind lilopinpin that there is no need to completely discard the House System you have used until now :smile:

because

Quadrant division assists with the assessment of planetary strength

and so

IF
Mars were in 1st by BOTH Quadrant division AND Whole Sign
then Mars would have been much stronger
than as in this case when we find Mars in 12th by Quadrant division
but in 1st by Whole Sign


dr. farr made the following useful comment
illustrating the original way Whole Sign Houses were implemented by ancient astrologers
and how those original working methods
have been mostly misunderstood



Cusps:

Today
(and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders"
(coasts),
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and the point of a sword
-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something,
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point";
now, when quadrant systems were developed,
this "point" of the house
came to mean its "beginning",
which later came to mean its "border",
ie, the "border" between one house and the other.
And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications
(Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all,
and never were so regarded!
In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning,
not as a "border"
but rather as A POINT
-and that POINT (cusp)
for EACH house,
was the sensitive point of that house,
viz,
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house-
that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.


Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are
(and were)
used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses
(always 0 degree of any sign) for anything,
but it DOES use "cusps"
(points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree)
for timing
(and other)
delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished
(both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-
this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices,
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign)
by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West,
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?"
(if old time astrologers did or didn't do something)
For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign
-it worked better (FOR ME)
I could care less if it were the oldest house system
(which it is)
or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:

only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work
(producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me,
so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out, I would say:
try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you..
.
 

Zarathu

Account Closed
While I have enormous respect for Dr. Farr, you should really read more on the various house systems and why they were developed before making a choice for yourself. You might choose equal houses, and then again you might not. I used to use Porphyry, and then switched to Placidus because of my need to use Astrodynes.

There are lots of reasons to use another house system than equal house, and many times it depends on your philosophy of astrology as well as the kinds of astrology that you do.
 
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