Frustrated, Disheartened and Going Insane

APL4444

Member
I am a serial underdog and underachiever, even though I feel like I have so much potential inside of me. Sometimes, I feel like I am going to blow up because I can't find a way to realize such potential. There is a lot of pressure building inside of me without a way to manifest. I am very creative and emotionally deep. However, I cannot thrive in the World. I live well below my capacity.

After much study and research, I think my problem centers around Saturn (See below link for the my natal chart with today's transits). Saturn is in the first house. It is the focus planet of a funnel/bucket chart. And, it is also the focus planet of a Yod (Saturn [Aries - 1st House], Neptune [Scorpio - 8th House], and Pluto [Virgo - 6th House] with an opposition to Mercury-Venus.

Please, someone out there, tell me what to do. I will do it. I promise. I am a Saturnine. Saturnine do not break promises :-D

Link for my Natal chart with today's transits:

http://s1288.photobucket.com/user/APL4444/media/NatalChart_zpscc942559.gif.html
 

waybread

Well-known member
With your sun (identity), moon (emotions), and Uranus and Pluto (powerful change forces all conjunct, you may feel like a big pressure-cooker ready to explode for most of your life! These look like difficult placements to me, so if you have managed to get through life so far as a good human being, I congratulate you.

On a soul level, we might consider that before incarnating, your soul wanted an extra helping of personal growth in this lifetime, and did not want the easy route to it! Kind of like the mountain climber who wants the more challenging route up the mountain, not the easy way up.

Let's also look at your planets bunched around your 7th house cusp (descendent.) This can suggest either that having a spouse or partner in life is very important to you (whether you have one or not), or that you view a lot of people as your enemies. The 7th house can go either way, but it suggests you being with or you being opposed to someone else. So take your choice!

I think you do have some artistic talent, with Venus in its own sign of Libra. So if nothing else, until you get your life as a whole on a better footing, the way you want it, see if you can find some small ways to "feed" those horoscope placements. Taking up a two-person game like tennis or raquet ball (or fencing--think creatively!) and something like ballroom dancing, where it's you and a dance partner, would be ideal. [Don't tell me you have two left feet, because you might meet someone, if you're signle. Don't tell me you don't play a raquet sport, because you can learn.] If you are musical, think about playing instruments, singing, accompanying, &c. with another person. The universe notices when you take small steps.

Saturn is not your enemy so much as the stern teacher all the kids hated in school-- but whom you realized later in life gave you the best lessons you ever learned. Saturn's lessons are always patience, hard work, resourcefulness, and learning to get by on very little. But he tends to reward his good students later in life.

Saturn does tend to show where we feel inadequate and not good enough. You probably have suffered from low self-esteem most of your life. This does not automatically mean there is something objectively wrong with you; merely that you are very hard on yourself. In the first house, in Aries, maybe Saturn is asking you, "Where and how can I exercise my sense of courage and individuality? Am I looking after my body and physical fitness properly?"

When you go through a chart this way, you can start to see some elements pulling together. OK-- so maybe your focus on the DC suggests an activity you would enjoy with a partner, like tennis. Then maybe Saturn in the first is asking you to look after your physical fitness more seriously. Both parts of your horoscope get some of what they need.

With such a strong focus on your 6th house, your health should be a major concern to you. Most people who exercise regularly (don't smoke, &c) report feeling better-- and better about themselves. So diet, nutrition, a work-out: these start coming together.

The 6th also deals with service to other people. The best rule I know for curing those lonesome feelings about myself is to try to help another person. Do you or can you volunteer for people who are less fortunate than yourself? (Note that the 6th is also associated with small animals-- perhaps an animal shelter needs volunteers.) Try on the idea that "It's not about me," and see how you can be a blessing to people who would really welcome your attention. There are so many street children, homeless people, battered women, and so on, who could benefit from your time and caring. they will give you all the recognition you deserve.

Your life may not be about whether you've made a "success" of it by your own or a materialistic society's standards. It may be about reaching out a hand to another person.

With your north node in the first house, your personal growth may just be about coming to terms with yourself as who you are as an individual. And God doesn't make mistakes.
 

rahu

Banned
Hi APL4444
You have sun / Uranus/moon stellium on the descendant which is opposed to Chiron on the ascendant.
This is a very insightful, extremely intelligent t, if not a genius, and an analytical perspective with keen critical skills. But you see too much sometimes and when you tell people the truth that you see, they usually reject your clarity. This aspect shows you have not tact when you see a contradiction or when someone is not acting as their words would dictate. You say want you see and take the consequences. This aspect shows that others respect your idea but that you don’t have many friends a very few people can take the truth about themselves without striking out at the messenger.
This pattern can give you the sense of going “insane” and likely you have at times be so characterizes, but what is happening is that you are subject to receiving psychic/astral energy from other plnes of existence. When one cannot integrate all these intense energies quick enough, their mind overloads and the sensation of confusion or insanity overtakes them. This is your situation, you have such a wide window to psychic astral energies that sometimes you can handle all that comes through you.
This aspect also gives your powerful psychic and astral abilities. You dreams are often prophetic and the solution to many problems have come from your dreams.
But you are a saturnine person as you mentioned as Saturn is opposed to your venus/mercury conjunction. This bring brevity to your word and emotional responses. It gives a reflective nature and can show that romance has been problematic inn your life.
With a strong Saturn and a strong Uranus you are subject to swings of moods. You can be intensely happy and then very despondent. This dynamic is sometimes called bipolar . this term may apply to you as you fly through heavens yet have to endure the deepest depressions.
You ask your suggestion. I suggest you see a counselor for your extreme low self esteem. It will be more specific but remember don’t strike the messenger.
Your Pluto/mercury and Pluto/venus midpoints are conjunct the south node. This shows you jave had very bad emotional experiences of a mental and sexual nature. With Pluto it is most likely that these early experiences are repressed from your memory. but some of the low self esteem you have is because these abusive experiences have left you subconsciously feeling at fault. This aspect carried into adult life and shows that you have been in what could be called abusive relationships and sometimes it seems you draw abusive men to you.
Furthermore, the Saturn/Pluto midpoint is square to your nodal axis. This places your father or father figure as an emotionally abusive man. Frankly, this likely includes physical or sexual abuse. But again ,with mercury/Pluto involved it is likely that these are repressed experiences. But again you low self esteem comes from you subconsciously being made to feel you deserve the evil abusive experiences.
So I suggest you seek professional help specifically from a counselor of abusive experiences.
I do not suggest a Freudian based therapist but one who specializes in improving self esteem.
It this is not an option, you might search for peer groups of women confronting the psychological dynamics I propose. What is important is that you start to talk about these pent up feelings.
Talking out these feelings can help release the psychic demons that hold you back from reaching your pinnacle.
rahu
 

APL4444

Member
Hi, Waybread
Thank you so much for spending so much time to write me such precious answer.
I guess the presence of the conjunction Sun-Moon-Uranus-Pluto plus Mercury-Venus conjunction in Libra is what gives me this overwhelmingly creativity and wealth of imagery inside of me. However, Saturn sitting in the first house seems to work like an iron lid that won’t let the genie come out.
Yes, having someone very close to me in an emotional level is very important. I always try to cultivate a meaningful and nurturing relationship, even if it is not romantic one. On the other side, I feel like I don’t receive help from other people to move forward in life. I guess I have to be more proactive regarding telling others that I need help, and that I don’t function well trying to be self-sufficient. I need motivation, guidance and support from others. And, here, again, I thank you for your support and help.
Saturn is known for rewarding his good students later in life, but how late is late? I am 44 years old and still struggling with underachievement and lack of fulfillment. Does that mean that I am not a good student, maybe? Therefore, what do I need to learn? I know that Saturn is important in my chart since it is the focus planet in a yod/finger of god and in a bucket/funnel configuration. But I don’t know what to do about that.
I have been cultivating a significant relationship and I am taking care of my body and health. However, I fill like I am not accomplishing my mission in life and that I am not bring outward the transformation and innovation that the Pluto-Uranus conjunction asks of me. It feels like that the manifesting in the World of what Pluto-Uranus ask of me is the contribution that I should be giving to other people. But, unfortunately, so far I have only been a failure.
 

APL4444

Member
Hi, Rahu.

It was very kind of you to offer your help.

The first paragraph of your interpretation is very accurate. With the risk of sounding like a snob or a delusional person, I really feel inside of me that I am insightful, intelligent and creative, but such features have not taken me anywhere so far, just to confusion and self-disappointment.
If I have psychic abilities, however, I am not aware of them. I can easily tune with other people’s feelings and I am good at interpreting dreams. That I know by experience.
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[/FONT]“This brings brevity to your word and emotional responses. It gives a reflective nature and can show that romance has been problematic inn your life.” This is absolutely true. Romance has been problematic because I have to work really hard to get dates, I have been married and divorced three times, even though I apply myself dutifully 100% to make the relationship to work.

Regarding the Uranus-Saturn bipolarity, I think it is one of the trunks of conflict of my Natal chart. The Sun-Uranus conjunction makes me very creative. However, my Saturn is debilitated in Aries, besides being the focus planet of a yod (finger of god) and of a bucket/funnel configuration. For all of that, it feels to me that Saturn is the lock holding my talents shut down. I wonder if I could use Mars (Is Mars the ruler of my chart?), that is in a trine with Saturn, and Jupiter, that is in a bi-quintile with Saturn, to unlock this gate.
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[/FONT]Yes, I was physically and emotionally abused as a kid by my mother. I have been working on overgrowing that through therapy. But, I above all, I want to find the contribution that I am supposed to bring to the World. But, with the risk of sounding too insistent and repetitive, it feels like a tug-of-war between Saturn and all the other planets together in my chart (because of the funnel/bucket configuration). I have heard that the finger-of-god configuration says pointing: Look at this! OK. I am looking at Saturn, but I don’t know what I am seeing. An if I saw it, I wouldn’t know what to do.

Thanks again ! :smile:
 

waybread

Well-known member
What kinds of standards are you setting for yourself? Impossibly high ones?

Most of us want a fulfilling vocation in life, but the more I read charts for people, the more I become convinced that the reasons why someone is on the planet may have nothing to do with their career or any public recognition; and also that a danger in knowing astrology is choosing a very disempowering interpretation of the horoscope.

So let's look at vocation, a 10th house matter. It is ruled by Saturn in Aries in your first house of body and personality. This might mean that these are your real project in life. But then if we look further at house cusp rulers and sign rulers, we are eventually going to end up in your domiciled Venus in the 7th house. So by all means, whether you get paid for a Venusian job or not, explore and manifest your creative side. So how often do you exercise that Venus in Libra talent?

Perhaps the lesson here is not to look to others for recognition, but to create because of what you have within you. It is a natural expression, like a tree bearing fruit.

I wouldn't say that your chart shows a ton of ambition. For these I would look to quintiles and squares. You've got one of each. Neptune square Mars can rob you of your "get up and go." Neptune tends to dissolve what it touches. It can make you prone to discouragement. However, Neptune is perfectly in tune with the arts, so once you focus on Neptune's positive side, of the arts taking us into another world, things may go better for you.

Then look at how you interpret Saturn. Not very empowering, eh? As I noted above, Saturn's lessons are "patience, hard work, resourcefulness, and learning to get by on very little." We should add to this list, perseverance and self-discipline. Saturn is what gets us out of bed in the morning when we'd rather sleep in. So if you set some clear, realistic goals for yourself, you can use Saturn to ensure that you complete them on schedule. The universe notices if we take steps, however small, to self-actualize, and take life into our own hands.

Because Saturn shows where we feel inadequate and frustrated, we have to work at converting our Saturn experiences into more constructive ones. And Saturn is the planet of hard work.

Saturn may not reward his students in the way they expect. He doesn't reward a lack of self-discipline. My rewards came around the time of my second Saturn return when I took an early retirement from my career. The career wasn't going as well as I hoped at that point, but I had enough pension at that time to live comfortably if not lavishly, because I had worked my tail off in one career. Now I really enjoy the freedom I have of not having to work so hard.

With Saturn in the first, you probably are a late-bloomer. And that's OK.

Saturn as the tip of a yod isn't out to thwart you. Quite the opposite. It represents an energy that you must express if you are to feel any sense of fulfillment.

You write about Saturn as though it were something outside of yourself, thwarting you at every turn. It isn't. You are all of the planets in your horoscope.

Your wrote, "Please, someone out there, tell me what to do. I will do it. I promise. I am a Saturnine. Saturnine do not break promises :-D"

Are you still willing to do this? I recommend that you right down all of the positive things you can think about regarding Saturn in Aries in the first house. Then write down some small steps you could take each day to exemplify those positive steps. Then do them. I think your life will turn around, but, as I said, Saturn will test your capacity for patience and resourcefulness, just to see if you have the self-discipline to go the distance.

The older I get the more I see happiness as a choice, not as something that external forces bestow upon the lucky ones.

You can do this thing! Good luck with it. In terms of your horoscope, God doesn't make mistakes.
 

rahu

Banned
hii agian

you know, the symbols of the father are more directly related to your esteem problems.
i can see the mother isssue , they are obvious but the hidden issues and demons are with your father.
rahu
 
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APL4444

Member
Hi, Rahu.

I can see the issues regarding my father very present. Much of my frustration is that I have not been able to show him that I made good use of all the good chances he gave to me. He was Saturnine himself and very loving and caring. He's pleasure was to fulfill his duty as a family man. He felt hurt, however, for losing his own father very young, and becoming himself the head of the household.

Our relationship was Saturnine too. He tried to be a good dutiful supporting father. And I tried to be a good son being a good student and keeping myself out of trouble. Our relationship developed to a point that in the end of his life he would thank me several times and always saying that we had inverted roles. That, then, he consider me to be his father, and he my loving son. And, he apologize for not have been able to provide me with more than he did.

Thank you very much again, Rahu. It was a great insight.
 

APL4444

Member
Hi, Waybread.

Thank you very much for taking the time to write such detailed and enlightening response.
I see that a person can see Astrology as a very disempowering tool. However, my attempt was to pinpoint where my flawed attitudes came from and how I can turn them around. Every planet exists in the Natal chart, I believe, as a potential. It is up to us to make good use of those talents and use the obstacle to become stronger and wiser.
It is true that I have a strong artistic vein because of Venus in the 7th house (The semi-sextiles Venus-Neptune and Venus-Pluto makes all the better). I find much pleasure and fulfillment in using my talents. However, a lack discipline and assertiveness has been limiting to those talents. I can be much disciplined and goal oriented for the benefit of others (if they are fair to me). I just cannot find a way to be discipline to achieve the goals I set for myself. So, my intention when I started to look for Astrological advice was just to find the kind of explanation you provided me. Yes, Saturn has been somewhat detrimental, but he also provides me with strengths that I can use if I learn how.
You are absolutely right that Mars-Neptune square robs me from my “get up and go”. Lately, paying attention to that aspect, I was thinking that if used the Mars-5th house- in-Virgo talent, I could manage to be less lazy and spent less time in wish-washing and daydreaming. If I find a way of turning routine (5th house-Virgo) exciting and fun, I would be able to overcome the Neptune limitations. On the other side, I could use the same Mars talent to energize and motivate my Saturn through the trine aspect Mars-Saturn.
I am not sure where you see the quintile, though? Are you talking about the bi-quintile between Jupiter and Saturn? How do you think I could use that aspect to help Saturn out. Saturn can use as much help as he can get, seen that he is kind of lonely and neglected on that side of the chart :-D
You say that Saturn as the tip of a yod isn't out to thwart me, that it represents energy that I must express if I am to feel any sense of fulfillment. I believe in that very strongly. And, that is what I want to accomplish. I have been trying my whole life to set some clear, realistic goals for myself, and use Saturn to ensure that I achieve them. However, I have been always ending up lost or demotivated. That is why I am here in this message board. I am trying to learn better ways to use my potentials. Relating to other people to find solutions for my issues helps me very much because it is easier for me to organize my thought that way. More and more, I am learning to recruit and consult other people regarding my decisions. That seems much better than the self-sufficient style that used for 44 years and did not work too well. It just made me feel lonely, isolated and resourceless.

You kindly told me to write down all of the positive things I can think about Saturn in Aries in the first house and, then, apply myself towards them. So, here it goes:

- Learning through action.
- Capacity to overcome obstacles through objectivity.
- Assertiveness and discipline.
- Orderly spontaneity.
- Submitting my desires to higher principles gives meaning to discipline. Therefore, discipline does not become constricting but liberating.

I want to let you know that coming to this message board was one first positive Saturnine step to find the right goals. I am sure that the wealth (Neptune), depth (Pluto), beauty (Venus) and language (Mercury) of Astrology will work (making good use of the boomerang) as very important elements to energize, nurture and motivate my Saturnine talents to achieve a so much longed fulfillment.
Your kind advices have been very much appreciated and are being applied for very good use.

Thank you very much again. I could not thank you enough.
 
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neoplatonist

New member
Heres a Hellenistic take on your chart but first - How confident are you of your birth time? It looks rounded up. I ask because you were born just prior to sunset. The movement of your ascendant just a few degrees would alter the sect of your planets, ie if your chart is nocturnal or diurnal, as you were born so close to sunset and also a new moon. This would alter the relevance of Saturn a bit. Possibly houses. If you are nocturnal which your chart says you are, Saturn is out of sect. We all have a Saturn somewhere restricting us. I would be looking at your sect benefic which is venus, which is in domicile and strong conjunct Mercury which is also strong. Saturn is in fall. It's a bit disconcerting that you let it dominate you , it's quite malefic for half of everyone- that is everyone born at night. Doing a quick calculation, mercury probably comes out of as the almuten figuris of your chart, the dominant and controlling planet.
I study Hellenistic and medieval astrology which looks at things quite differently than psychological. But it keeps it simple and it's another perspective to add. The North Node in your first house is asking you to develop your sense or self. As well as the good advice you have here, and since this is astrology, look at the philosophy that goes hand in hand with astrology as they are inseparable. Most classical astrologers were Stoics. Or Neoplatonists. This is the founding hermetic wisdom that founded astrology and its systems. We live in the age of entitlement where everyone thinks they are entitled to be this and that, rich, famous whatever. We feel frustrated if we aren't. While you go through all this don't defer your sense of well being and entitlement to others values or advertising and you might be less frustrated and more content. You have a lot of Virgo and naturally prone to over analysing yourself and worrying.
Saturn is the last of the visible planets, the chronicator of all matter in the sublunary world, the grim reaper we all meet. Gnostics even see him as a demirurge or Satan/Saturn fallen from the stars and logos above. These many well known philosophers and astrologers saw it as our goal to rise above this ruler of the material and earthly realm. Deferring so much to Saturn only ties you to concerns and pressures of this world that stress you and frustrate you. Worldly goods and accolades you can't take with you. As the final gate keeper to the outer planets and the universal mind and logos beyond - he will ask you if you see anything beyond the material world he has created and if you have any virtue in leaving it. Just a different take on Saturn for you.
 

APL4444

Member
Hi, Neoplatonist.
You are indeed a very perceptive person.
I would not be surprised at all, if the time of birthin my chart is an approximated (or even rough) guess. It could have been something like: the caesarian was schedule for six o’clock, so that is what went down on the birth certificate.
You say that Venus and Mercury are dominant in my chart. I can feel that. I am artistically talented and mentally articulated. I don’t have a problem with them. My problem is that I cannot achieve concrete goes that benefits me. I can only achieve goals that benefit mostly other people, I always come in second.
I don’t think it is disconcerting that I supposedly let Saturn “dominate” me. Actually, I want give him some help seen that besides of being in his fall, he is alone in a tug-of-war against all the other planets in a bucket/funnel formation, and being poked by Neptune and Pluto from both sides through the Yod.
I want to give some tools to Saturn so he can do his job well (organizing and materializing my creativity and thoughts). I thought that Mars could help Saturn through the Trine. But Mars is embattling Neptune through a square (Therefore, I spend a lot of time fantasizing, daydreaming, visualizing and being lazy). I also looked at Jupiter seen that it connects with Saturn through a bi-quintile. However, Jupiter is constricted in Virgo.
Therefore, I need to really make a conscious effort to energize Mr. Saturn. He is the only planet pointing to the right direction, seen that he is in the same house and sign of the North node. It feels like he is being bullied and neglected in his corner. Mars and Jupiter are willing to help, but they have their own problems and clicks to take care of. Regardless of that, I am here thinking what I could do to recruit Jupiter and Mars in this endeavor.

By the way, I thought Mars was the ruler in my chart since he is the regent of the first house in my chart.

Thank you very much a lot for sending me your answer. It would be really great if I could hear more from you.
 

chris10

Well-known member
... since this is astrology, look at the philosophy that goes hand in hand with astrology as they are inseparable. Most classical astrologers were Stoics. Or Neoplatonists. This is the founding hermetic wisdom that founded astrology and its systems. We live in the age of entitlement where everyone thinks they are entitled to be this and that, rich, famous whatever. We feel frustrated if we aren't. While you go through all this don't defer your sense of well being and entitlement to others values or advertising and you might be less frustrated and more content. You have a lot of Virgo and naturally prone to over analysing yourself and worrying.
Saturn is the last of the visible planets, the chronicator of all matter in the sublunary world, the grim reaper we all meet. Gnostics even see him as a demirurge or Satan/Saturn fallen from the stars and logos above. These many well known philosophers and astrologers saw it as our goal to rise above this ruler of the material and earthly realm. Deferring so much to Saturn only ties you to concerns and pressures of this world that stress you and frustrate you. Worldly goods and accolades you can't take with you. As the final gate keeper to the outer planets and the universal mind and logos beyond - he will ask you if you see anything beyond the material world he has created and if you have any virtue in leaving it. Just a different take on Saturn for you.

Thank you.
Thank you for this wonderful post.



We live in the age of entitlement where everyone thinks they are entitled to be this and that, rich, famous whatever. We feel frustrated if we aren't.
... and when someone tries to escape from this madness, they are considered eccentric.


While you go through all this don't defer your sense of well being and entitlement to others values or advertising and you might be less frustrated and more content.


Worldly goods and accolades you can't take with you. As the final gate keeper to the outer planets and the universal mind and logos beyond - he will ask you if you see anything beyond the material world he has created and if you have any virtue in leaving it.

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Dude, you're from Brasil too, add me on http://www.facebook.com/feelingshred ;)
I tried to figure your chart out, but it's difficult because it's such an "unique" chart.
Some guessings/assumptions can be made:
Asc Aries: did you born prematurely? did you learn how to walk and speak faster than normally other children do? May be EXTREME talented in musical instruments (comes from ability of making super-quick decisions, regarding improvising skills)
Sun near 7th: do you have a twin brother?
Lots of Virgo placements: you may have the "power" to be like a chameleon, would be an outstanding TV/movie actor
Venus/Mercury in Libra: maybe you are good in jobs related to "sorting good from bad", a judge of some sort, politician, you may have talent to please crowds or to sing/dance/guitar
MC in Sag/Cap cusp: you may have talent with sports like racing, swimming... if not, you must have a POWERFUL voice, that you must use as soon as possible
At first, this is what I can get ;) Add me on facebook and we chat more
 
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