A guy predicted me death........so scared and annoyed....

Waybread, as a person with my mind continually coming 'round to worry about death (Mercury, Venus, Sun, Chiron in 8th - go figure), I had never even thought about the perspective you presented (natural disasters and such). Very interesting food for thought! Thanks for that!

Backy - there are ancient formulas for "calculating" one's death - you can find them if you probe the internet some. I don't think it's wise though... I went down that road about a year ago, and it is truly maddening. If your natural tendency is to dread the worst (but hope for the best), you'll drive yourself insane with this one.

For the most part, I had to completely stop reading my own charts and those of my family for the past year or so - I was convinced that one of us was going to meet their demise last summer. None of us did - but we did go through some huge changes that impacted all of us (and they were virtually all positive changes!).

Before I finally gave it up, though, I had a heavy heart and morbid thoughts on a constant basis -and if anything were to happen to me, that's not how I would want to spend the last days of my life. If anything, I learned even more so to treasure the present moment.

Morghana, I think you raise a good point. let's suppose, for the sake of argument that a skilled astrologer who learns death-clock astrology can predict the moment of death.

Ages ago, when I was much younger, I somehow took it into my head that I would love to be psychic and able to predict the future. Well, I am not psychic, but I actually got a bit obsessive about how wonderful a gift this would be. Then, for some reason--I suddenly realized with horror that this would not be a gift, but a curse. The true fortune-teller would know when all the wars would begin and how many people would die horribly. I would would see with clarity the deaths of my own children. Kassandra-like, I would try to warn people of impending troubles, but not be believed. Because if there really is a fated, deterministic universe out there such that deaths can be predicted, there is no possibility to change anything. The moment of death is fixed at birth.

I am acquainted with a couple aged about 70-ish in my small community. The wife has incurable cancer. I happened to see the husband yesterday, and asked how his wife was doing: he said it is only a matter of time before she passes. But he also said that in some ways a death was better with her cancer, because they had time to become closer, and to say a lot of good things to one another. He noted that with a sudden death, it is possible that a couple's last words to one another would be horrible.

Although this anecdote might seem like an argument for astrologers doing "death clock" astrology, I think it is quite the reverse. First because of the horrible burden of knowledge it places on the fortune-teller; but also, because all of us should live every day as though we or our loved ones might pass suddenly. We would become much kinder, supportive human beings.

I've raised other arguments against death predictions in this and other threads. The traditional astrologers did not all agree on the proper method of calculating the death clock. Their different procedures yielded different results. And there are documented historical examples where astrology's great men of the past calculated death incorrectly. We can imagine what would become of death clock astrology in the hands of fraudsters preying on seniors, emotionally fragile people, and greedy executors of their parents' wills--and they are out there.

It also occurs to me that longevity is correlated with income and education. Understandably, people with more money on average get better medical care and have better nutrition and do more research on health and their illnesses than the poor and illiterate. These factors cannot be read so easily off a chart. Women tend to live longer than men, and without supplementary information, sex cannot be read off a chart at all.

Lilly, I do think medical astrology has merit. Where I would draw the line is in predicting why one person will die of an illness and another will recover. If two people have a fatal disease, I would be surprised if astrology can predict which one will have a better outcome.

I think if death clock astrology works, the life insurance companies would be all over it.

Yeah, i got that the guy in fact didn't use any "calculation" to predict my death. And he couldn't since he doesn't know my birth time and place. His statement would be as if i would tell someone that he will die when Saturn conjucts his Sun. I don't have any evidence, but i believe that will happen. Pluto will get in Aries in 2068, when i'll be 79, and according to that we would all die every die. Now people who are capricorn would die like they are on a battlefield if this was true. It's similar. So i got over it, i think, though my subconcious is still a bit messed up, but it will pass soo, i hope. I don't have any suicidal tendentions that this person said, and i even have less stress in this period than usual.

How much is a birth time important in any kind of predictions? Are things for people who are born on let's say 14:00 much different than people born on 14:30?

Backy
How much is a birth time important in any kind of predictions? Are things for people who are born on let's say 14:00 much different than people born on 14:30?

Birth time is almost essential for most predictive astrology involving timing. A person born at 14.30 may have a different sign ascending. But when you start progressing a chart, the progressed ascendant is going to be out by maybe YEARS if the degree is incorrect.(Using a day for a year to progress).

Time of almost anything in one's life involves the ascendant and the ascendant Lord.
If the time is wrong, the house cusps will all be wrong. The Lords of houses may be wrong. To delineate that chart would result in incorrect information being given.
Our birth time is the exact moment we *ascend* into the world-our ascendant point is what makes us the unique beings that we are.The place is equally important.
The logic of astrology absolutely depends on knowing what planet controls what house. Also without an accurate TOB we will never know the location of Pars Fortuna, and the moon can be out by 12 degrees so could even be in a different sign.
Without TOB you can't use Arabic parts, and they can be very useful, as can *aspects to house cusps*.
It's worth the trouble to try every way to get that recorded TOB.
Cheers
Lilly

If he didnt have your time or place of birth he was at least negligent and immoral to tell you what he did. He should have been reported. He is not a true astrologer. I hope at least you didnt pay him.

Time of birth determines the rising sign and degree and then the rest of the chart follows. Half an hour can make a difference.

To predict death by the birth chart is a difficult thing and takes a highly experienced astrologer who wont give you the details if they are ethical.
I dont think there is a 100% foolproof method anyway.

lillyjgc said:

Backy
How much is a birth time important in any kind of predictions? Are things for people who are born on let's say 14:00 much different than people born on 14:30?

Birth time is almost essential for most predictive astrology involving timing. A person born at 14.30 may have a different sign ascending. But when you start progressing a chart, the progressed ascendant is going to be out by maybe YEARS if the degree is incorrect.(Using a day for a year to progress).

Time of almost anything in one's life involves the ascendant and the ascendant Lord.
If the time is wrong, the house cusps will all be wrong. The Lords of houses may be wrong. To delineate that chart would result in incorrect information being given.
Our birth time is the exact moment we *ascend* into the world-our ascendant point is what makes us the unique beings that we are.The place is equally important.
The logic of astrology absolutely depends on knowing what planet controls what house. Also without an accurate TOB we will never know the location of Pars Fortuna, and the moon can be out by 12 degrees so could even be in a different sign.
Without TOB you can't use Arabic parts, and they can be very useful, as can *aspects to house cusps*.
It's worth the trouble to try every way to get that recorded TOB.
Cheers
Lilly

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I agree that an accurate time of birth is really crucial. Even with twins 20 minutes apart can make a big difference and change the rulers of the houses if the rising sign degree is different for instance it can move into the next sign for instance. THe Moon degree changes very quickly also.

Thanks for the info

Well, i had a good life to say so far, but i am a VERY sensitive person unfortunately(maybe because my Mercury is in Pisces), and i sometimes emotionally overreact. I had a tough period of my life in June 2008, i was diagnosed with tinnitus, and i DID want to "disappear" at some points back then and maybe at some random points when it was really tough, but i am not "playing with dangerous drugs and weapons" like that person told me, and i certainly would never kill myself. I got used to it, even though it was itchy.

We all have escapist feelings sometimes, and we all don't commit suicide. That's what i think at least.

EDIT: You don't think that guy is psychic maybe? He once claimed that he "sees things beyond the surface". And i didn't pay anything, i posted that question about death in one of the forums where i asked if i should trust some book of prophecies who was predicting deaths by birth date. And then i got that reply (he looked at my birth date in my profile)

EDIT 2: And i heard that a Mercury in a water sign if rulling 8th cusp can mean death by drowning? Is that true? I don't know if it's my case, and i don't want to find out either, but i am just curious.

Backy, maybe the right question for you to be asking is how you can use astrology to develop more faith in the universe to support you. And maybe develop more of a firm reality check.

This complete stranger who scared the bejeezus out of you on the Internet is up to no good. If I read some transit off your chart, claimed to be psychic, and predicted your death, would you believe me? What if 100 complete strangers on the Internet did this, and our predictions were different?

Sadly, logic doesn't seem to prevail here. I would love for a traditional astrologer to explain to me how you can have a mass death event like an airline crash or a bomb blast that simultaneously kills hundreds of people, and yet argue that the victims' charts all showed the identical death-clock signature based upon sensitive differences in their birth times.

And will the real death prediction forumula please stand up? If I posted 10 anonymous charts, and 8 of the people were living and 2 were dead, would a traditional astrologer accurately detect which is which?

Even the traditional astrologers of yore had half a dozen methods to predict death, yet these yield different results. And some of these results were notoriously wrong.

I take Claire's point that no method is 100% foolproof. Predicting that someone will have a crisis, be accident-prone, or get really sick on a certain date is not the same thing as predicting that s/he will be rubbed out, terminated, finito, kick the can, be wacked, dropped, deceased, passed on, snuffed out, or born into another dimension.

Thanks a lot waybread

Speaking of traditional astrology, i have a friend who knows really much about it, and the way he talks he looks like a good expert.

According to him then, two twins who are born very shortly one after another will have the same fate and die in a very silimar way, which isn't very logical.

This one I can help you with. I have a pair of twins as friends. About 1997 one of them committed suicide.The other is still alive. The one who committed suicide suffered from a psychiatric disorder that the male twin did not have have. Interestingly they were born with different ascendants.
I think this is an excellent example of free will and choices in life.One twin felt able to cope with life, and one did not.They were both extraordinarily talented musicians.Both very successful.I knew them both from childhood and it was obvious even at age 12 that were very different in a lot of psychological ways-different house cusps and different house lords.
Their fates could not have been more different.
Cheers
Lilly

Thanks a lot Lilly, that is exactly what i am talking about.

But what do you think if two twins have the same ascedent, but different birth time of 30 and maybe even more minutes, do you think it is also possible that they will have this kind of different fate? Which means the degree of theur ascedent will be different, and so will the planets in each cusp, right?

Backy said:

Thanks a lot waybread

Speaking of traditional astrology, i have a friend who knows really much about it, and the way he talks he looks like a good expert. He claims that he can even predict the manner of death and the time (but he's not that sure), and he once told me that if there is a bad aspect between the ruler of the 1st cusp and the ruler of the 7th cusp, the person won't live long. And he found 245 examples to prove that.

But still he doesn't know my exact time of birth, when i told him something about my life, he did guess some things correctly (but not events, just personality things, even though he was unsure), but he missed my time of birth for some good 20-25 minutes (he knew my ascedent). And when i told him that i am little overweight he missed even more, beliving that i am born even something close to 30 minutes later than his original (wrong) guess.

I don't agree with some statements of his though. If everything is set in stone, then if my chart says that i will finish the uni and become a buisness man, then what should i study for? I could stop studying and still finish it, according to his logic. That is just my use of common sense.

And he said that if it says that someone will die (for example) in a plane, he can avoid it as much as he can, but the plane will fall on him.....which also doesn't really make sense to me.

According to him then, two twins who are born very shortly one after another will have the same fate and die in a very silimar way, which isn't very logical.

Or i am mistaken, what do you think?

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Backy, your "friend" must be quite a researcher to have matched up 245 birth and death charts. Your own evidence indicates some problems with his accuracy. Your reasoning also indicates some problems. The number of people killed by planes falling on them is tiny.

I don't have an accurate birth time for my husband, but his ascendant is in one of two signs. Either way, the ruler of his 1st and 7th form difficult aspects. And he is a senior citizen. So much for an early death.

So this is one of my problems with death prediction.

I also agree with Lilly that individuals make choices in life. Sometimes seemingly minor choices can have dramatic impacts on how their lives turn out.

In terms of the identical twins problem, you might enjoy reading an article on dwads [or duads--divisions of zodiac signs by increments of 2.5 degrees] by Australian astrologer Alice Portman at http://aliceportman.com/ She doesn't get into death prediction so far as I know, but uses dwads to discuss how minute differences in twins' charts can affect their lives.

Very interesting article, thanks a lot

So, you believe his theory doesn't work.

Oh and also now a more precise question.

Is generally having Uranus and Neptune in the 8th cusp bad? That is what i have in my chart, and Saturn is not in the 8th cusp but in 9th,it is pretty close to it. Mars too. I am not interested in "Yes, you will die in a horrible way", etc........i am generally interested in a confirguartion. Is it more good, or bad?

Or that depends from the whole natal as well?