Rushman's Natal Promise

Something I have been thinking about over the past few days ...

Traditional astrologers tend to ignore Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, correct? What if those were the main aspects that are made with the Sun?

For example, my Sun sign is in the 8th/9th house depending on what house system you use:

Opposite Neptune (2nd house)
Trine Pluto (12th house)
Trine Moon (5th house)

So does this means that I only have one natal promise for marriage?? That already happened and was dead before I turned 30.

melina said:

Something I have been thinking about over the past few days ...

Traditional astrologers tend to ignore Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, correct? What if those were the main aspects that are made with the Sun?

For example, my Sun sign is in the 8th/9th house depending on what house system you use:

Opposite Neptune (2nd house)
Trine Pluto (12th house)
Trine Moon (5th house)

So does this means that I only have one natal promise for marriage?? That already happened and was dead before I turned 30.

Click to expand...

Personally I would say they do count. perhaps some research to see if Rushman is a Modern or traditional astrologer then?

melina said:

Something I have been thinking about over the past few days ...

Traditional astrologers tend to ignore Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, correct? What if those were the main aspects that are made with the Sun?

For example, my Sun sign is in the 8th/9th house depending on what house system you use:

Opposite Neptune (2nd house)
Trine Pluto (12th house)
Trine Moon (5th house)

So does this means that I only have one natal promise for marriage?? That already happened and was dead before I turned 30.

Click to expand...

Melina--

Rushman uses Neptune, & Pluto & Uranus as part of her Natal Promise analysis. She even describes that her Sun conjuncted Neptune and that was a marriage for her. Also, she uses Jackie Kennedy's NP to show Uranus aspect. Jackie O's Sun trines Uranus in Aries 5h & that described her second husband-Onassis (Aries).

Rushman stated that a Moon/Sun aspect MAY become marriage.

Vivian Robson stated that he didn't count aspects between luminaries because they reflect & they're not PP in his book Astrology & Sex.


All-

Also, which house system are you guys & gals using when analyzing your charts? I think Rushman is using Koch. It may not make a difference to some but I still wanted to ask.



Thanks for all your input on this thread! I enjoy it immensely.

I wanted to correct all my original posts using Rushman's Ptolemy derived theory on NP. I'm very new & green to astrology so in case anyone was reading my own analysis of NP, I will correct it.

Thanks to VenusinScorpio for also posting her thoughts on another thread regarding matter. I went back and re-read my aspects.

I went back and used Kundig Chart because it visually lays out the aspects and this is easier for me to conceptualize. I added my Kundig chart as a thumbnail, so y'all can see how it's my NP & my analysis of it.

I also practiced on Ted Kennedy & Rushman's examples to make sure I was analyzing it properly before I read the explanations. This helped immensly in learning. I should probably get it before making threads but I'll blame my Mercury, lol.

I've 4 total Sun aspects according to K Chart. Original Natal Chart was different in reading. See above linked chart and chart attached below.

My Sun conjuncts Mercury @ 1'9 Sag (in Stellium). This aspect even if applying doesn't count as real marriage prospect. Rushman's experience holds these are relationships that don't end up in marriage, also see Bob Zemco's explanation above regarding when it may apply. Either way my Mercury doesn't count.

Sun applies to Neptune at 23'56 Sag in conjunction, which symbolizes marriage?, but before that happens, Neptune(Sag) sextiles Saturn from @19'1 Libra, squares Mars from 21'53 Virgo, and afterwards sextiles Pluto from 25'52 Libra.

Personal Planets that are aspected represent your partner's traits (usually rising sign) and all aspects applying & seperating according to Rushman describe them.

After looking at my planetary placements, etc. I was amazed. Now, that I'm not making a complete fool of myself in this subject. I'll explain my experience.

Aspect 1: Sun Conjunct Mercury @ 1'9. Partner was Leo Sun Sign & has Natal Sun @1 degree (Ephermis). No birthtime, so no clue to rising? Rushman stated that PP usually represents partner's rising, so maybe he's a Virgo/Gem rising?


Aspect 2: Neptune Sextiles Saturn from 19'1 Libra(Venus rules Libra/Taurus & Saturn rules Capricorn.)

My second partner was Taurus Sun sign w/Capricorn rising. Met him one week before 19 birthday (first date was on my 19th birthday) & his birthday is 5/17. Rushman says sometimes zodical degree of PP correlates with birthdate of individual or age +/-. He was born at 11:55 pm, so maybe we can say it was off by 1 day instead He was 9 years older than me-Saturn =older partner?

Aspect 3: Neptune squares Mars at 21'53 Virgo. He is Virgo Sun sign, Scorpio Rising. Mars is traditional ruler of Scorpio. His birthday is 9/22. I met him at 21 and after counting, I met him 49 days after my birthday but first date was 5 days later at 54 days after my birthday. Crazy.

Aspect 4:Neptune Conjuncts at 23'56 Sag. (Pisces Rising?)
Aspect 5: Neptune Sextiles Pluto @ 25'52 Sag (Scorpio Rising?)

Possibility that Aspect 4/5 is one aspect. Partner may be Neptune (Pisces Rising) w/Pluto aspects (Maybe Scorpio Planets/Influence?). We'll see if this all actually happens, lol.

This is my NP if I digested that info properly.

I think this personal NP interpretation is right. If you want to add your interpretations or correct mine-feel free. I'm learning & obviously very interested in this topic.

Kundig Chart for people like me-attached. I like the visual flow of it. Try it, it makes sense.

Also, which house system are you guys & gals using when analyzing your charts? I think Rushman is using Koch. It may not make a difference to some but I still wanted to ask.

Click to expand...

house systems are irrelevant to this discussion, we are only looking at aspects, applying, separating etc.

Rushman also said in partner's natal chart-when looking at their aspects, sometimes they may have a correlating PP at/around your own birthdate or same degree as PP in your chart.

Example--

Rushman has an applying aspect w/Jupiter at 28' Virgo. Her husband has Jupiter at 28' Pisces. Food for thought.

I read in her book that Separating aspects count as relationships that don't end in legal marriage. She putted her own self as an example.

And she has Mercury conjunct Sun "In spite it doesn't count" (I don't remember if it was Separating or Applying) The point is that she said she had a relationship with a Gemini guy who was younger than her and she didn't get married with him.

She also said that "sometimes" the degrees of your 7th house or your 7th house ruler show either: the time duration of your 1st marriage or the age you get married.
In my case it doesn't work for age as my 7th house is at 5° Gemini.... But maybe my 1st marriage will endure 5 years. who knows.


She also remarks that sometimes the partners you attract may not be naturally as your Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars describe it. Sometimes yes.... but she says that you may get that part out of them with the way you behave.
Is like you have Sun square Pluto Applying and a partner tell you: "You get the worst out of me... I am really not like that"... and you feel the partner being over controlling with you, while he/she says the opposite.
Either the person you attract can activate that aspects in you, or you can activate those aspects in them.


In my case with Mars/Uranus midpoints applying to my sun with a conjunction and a square... makes the men I attract so restless, hot headed, rude, over independent when they are with me. Once my lover told me "I am very stable and I am not rude... you are the one who's not stable, restless, and rude"

virgo18 said:

I read in her book that Separating aspects count as relationships that don't end in legal marriage. She putted her own self as an example.

And she has Mercury conjunct Sun "In spite it doesn't count" (I don't remember if it was Separating or Applying) The point is that she said she had a relationship with a Gemini guy who was younger than her and she didn't get married with him.

She also said that "sometimes" the degrees of your 7th house or your 7th house ruler show either: the time duration of your 1st marriage or the age you get married.
In my case it doesn't work for age as my 7th house is at 5° Gemini.... But maybe my 1st marriage will endure 5 years. who knows.
[sounds like she was referring to solar arcs. As any planet cannot go over 30' they can only refer to issues/matters before then.]

She also remarks that sometimes the partners you attract may not be naturally as your Sun/Moon/Venus/Mars describe it. Sometimes yes.... but she says that you may get that part out of them with the way you behave.
Is like you have Sun square Pluto Applying and a partner tell you: "You get the worst out of me... I am really not like that"... and you feel the partner being over controlling with you, while he/she says the opposite.
Either the person you attract can activate that aspects in you, or you can activate those aspects in them.
[sounds sensible, even freindships with others can bring out the best/worst in people]

In my case with Mars/Uranus midpoints applying to my sun with a conjunction and a square... makes the men I attract so restless, hot headed, rude, over independent when they are with me. Once my lover told me "I am very stable and I am not rude... you are the one who's not stable, restless, and rude"

Click to expand...

The only midpoints I use are sun/moon ad Asc/MC being the most important. Mars/uranus can act to quickly spurred on by uranus that causes accidents or clumsyness to. Which house is the mars/uranus? I can see that if it were 7th. I have my chart ruler Uranus opp Asc conj Sun/moon midpoint exactly. Now I never recognise the uranus traits in myself but only in partners, THEY want freedom and independence from me Can't keep something in their trousers and once that trust/betrayal comes in I'm out the door filing for divorce. with stellium in taurus in 4th I think I'm very placid and laid back, but who knows what my ex's think. I have noticed just recently that SA mars in 7th is squaring my mercury and members on here have found me more argumentative than normal

la dona said:

Rushman said that she only counts the major applying natal aspects (conjunction, square, opposition, trine, and sextile). She is silent on whether semi-sextile counts. I'm assuming by her explicit defition, the semi-square, semi-sextiles, etc don't count.

She said that the Moon CAN apply to the Sun, and she has seen this aspect indicate a potential marriage.

Click to expand...

Something I have been thinking about over the past few days ...

Traditional astrologers tend to ignore Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, correct? What if those were the main aspects that are made with the Sun?

For example, my Sun sign is in the 8th/9th house depending on what house system you use:

Opposite Neptune (2nd house)
Trine Pluto (12th house)
Trine Moon (5th house)

So does this means that I only have one natal promise for marriage?? That already happened and was dead before I turned 30.

victory12 said:

Something I have been thinking about over the past few days ...

Traditional astrologers tend to ignore Uranus, Neptune and Pluto, correct? YES What if those were the main aspects that are made with the Sun? [I suggest you find out if she is a Modern or Traditional astrologer, I 'think' she is modern but you should research this.....]

For example, my Sun sign is in the 8th/9th house depending on what house system you use:

Opposite Neptune (2nd house)
Trine Pluto (12th house)
Trine Moon (5th house)

So does this means that I only have one natal promise for marriage?? That already happened and was dead before I turned 30.

Click to expand...

If Carol Rushman is a Modern astrologer then the aspects are valid
This methodology or theories are NOT set in stone as you might think

Update: I met my husband on September 23rd & we got married on October 30th.

I guess maybe there maybe some hope in my natal promise chart after all.

I'm honeymooning but his data is:

November 8, 1981
10:02 am
Nalgonda, Andhra Pradesh, India

I believe he is a Scorpio with Cap rising.
He works in banking & is an engineer

I believe that fit Rushman's description of my husband.

Either way I didn't see this coming =)

it is important to know which house is used. rushman uses the secondary progression of cusp to study matters connected with that house. example see how she uses fifth house cusp progression to find birth of children

Interesting thread, a few things I'm not getting though...

I forgot who said it in this thread, but I remember reading that Saturn cannot make an applying aspect to any planet unless Saturn is in retrograde. In my chart, I believe Saturn is stationary though, it's located at 14.36 Sag/11th house, and my moon is at 12.35 Libra/9th house. Is that an applying sextile aspect?

Also, I was once told by an experienced astrologer that my future wife would likely be older, and I never really knew what in my chart would indicate this. Is it because of the Moon-Saturn sextile in my chart? Moon-Saturn is the closest aspect my Moon has, and also the moon is the ruler of the 7th house in my chart. Does the closest aspect to moon describe the wife? Also what does it mean if the 7th house ruler (Moon) is square to the 7th house cusp?

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la dona said:

Update: I met my husband on September 23rd & we got married on October 30th.

Click to expand...

wow, that was quick!

would my chart show of a new marriage? how many planets do you have to see in this chart? i have had 3 already.

please advise