My friend's depression...

Why is my friend depressed? He blames it on his pisces moon. He has been depressed since 2002. He is clinically depressed. He has a gf that cares for him since he was a teenager.
Will his depression worses when Saturn transits his 1st? I am worried for that transit for him. Uranus is transiting his 6th, will he have a sudden change to his mental state? But its close to the 7th. Any input please?
I know there is no cure for depression but sometimes his mental state is okay with the help of medications. One thing he really finds interesting in astrology is learning about the nodes, it gave him a lot of insght about his destiny and what could fufill him. Transiting node is squaring his natal nodes, does that cause some frustration? We love him so much. He has so much potential. He is still trying to finish his degree in history and he is an aspiring author. He has a lot of talent and his depression is so debilitating. How will his depression change during the upcoming transits? The most recent bad depressive state was back in early 2006! Since then a lot of ups and downs but not that bad he says.

There are MANY answers to your question in this chart.
Natally, Neptune (always a problem) squares his Moon. It could be ANY moon, not necessarily Pisces, but Neptune square the moon will always give the native periods of depression. The "clinical" part can be explained by the fact that Neptune rules the 6th house of "health" and "adjustment to one's life" , and with the moon there, and squared by Neptune, he is NOT adjusted to the life he lives.

Neptune also opposes his Sun. This is like putting a 'wet blanket' on all happy things. Also Neptune oopposes his Jupiter, which rules his 3rd house of "daily routine" & expressing himself, among other things. So whatever he does has this "dark spot" hovering over it (symbolically.)
He also has Saturn inconjunct the moon. So his moon (emotional mechanism) is attacked by both Neptune and Saturn. And with the inconjunct, there's little one can do about it. The moon and Saturn represents the parents in the original family. If these people were problematic for your friend, as his chart says they were, the best thing for him would be to be as far away from them as possible, as they don't help him emotionally, they only serve to underscore his issues.

He also has Sun-Jupiter square moon. This guy has very different values, needs and goals from the people who raised him. He has never been able to break free of his childhood, whatever it was, and become "AUTHENTICALLY" HIMSELF. And there's a part of him that knows this, and it's the part of him that makes him depressed.

He finds it hard to express his true feelings, thoughts and philosophy.

He also has Mars and Venus in the same sign, and conjunct (next to each other.) This is not considered fortunate, although EITHER Mars or Venus in Taurus would be fortunate, both together in the 7th house, and opposing Uranus, is difficult.

I think your friend might have a sexual identity problem. MIght. But if not, he does feel a bit hemmed in by his environment and maybe even his relationship. He needs to explore living somewhere else....even if just another city from where he is now.
Sometimes relocation brings personal evolution.

The moon rules his MC (public identity) and this means he can't seem to get away from his deep emotions, and it has come to "define" him, which is negative because if there is a planet which should define one, it would be the SUN which rules the future and authenticity, and not the moon which rules the past and programming from others who happened to be strong when the native was a child.

He also has the north node in the first, which means he needs to promote himself in this life and be independent....or at least interdependent, not codependent.

This is a creative man who has not found the freedom to do creative things.
He must find an environment which will give him freedom & give him inspiration to have freedom of expression. When Saturn rules your 4th house your personal environment is vital to your health and well being and maturity.

I want to add that in 2002 transitting Saturn was in Gemini which would account for his intense depression...these were the pertinent dates:
Saturn conj. his Jupiter the first time in August 2001, and also made the first opposition to his Neptune..... then retrograded and came back to that conjunction (and opposition to Neptune) at the end of April of '02. From there it conjuncted his Sun at 17 Gemini, but first made a square to his moon at 16 Pisces (all of May, 02.)

Even though it moved on, it remained in Gemini until June of '03. Unfortunately, it remained in his 9th house till July, 04. Then it hit his Midheaven (Saturn on midheaven is traditionally negative unless there are great aspects to it) in June '04.

But just before it his his MC it squared both his Pluto and ascendant. This happened in Sept, Oct, Nov, & Dec. of '03. Then it retrograded and came back for another pass at the squares to both his Pluto and ascendant in May and June of '04.

In '05....July & Aug, Saturn (in Leo) squared his Mars and Venus in his 7th house. When it retrograded back it didn't quite get back to 2 degrees (to square Mars and Venus) but it was within orb to feel the effect so spring of '06 probably wasn't happy for him.

Saturn will cross his ascendant next year (around this time). And at that time he'll have a Saturn trine Sun-JUpiter which should help him relocate. However, if he wants to take full advantage of THAT transit, he will need to make the most of the time he has now.

Uranus will be in positive aspect to his Mercury till December of 2010, and so it will help him make big changes. He will make the changes mentally, but he will need encouragement to make the changes physically.

Depressives find it really hard to make big changes...there's a sort of comfort in depression and a fear of the future which keeps them stuck in first gear. If his friends really want to help him they should encourage him to use his intuition in the future.

LIN

I see no reason why he 'has' to 'choose' betweeen either of his luminaries. Actually. OK, so his Sun and Moon are in square, so it may be difficult to reconcile these two sides to himself - which to my mind, with or without depression, might well cause a certain amount of vacillation over what he thinks, or feels. And an idealistic Libra ascendant might not precisely help there.

There seems to be a lot of wishful thinking in this chart - a tendency to see life through rose-coloured spectacles . an element of Walter Mitty.

The problem is, when he cannot sustain this.

The pattern seems to me to be of a tendency to over-idealise - projects he wished to get involved with, people he may he get close to. That is how I see the t-square to both his luminaries, from that very idealistic Jupiter/Neptune conjunction.

But then there is the inevitable disappointment, when dreams fail to materialise. And there could be a pattern here, frequently resulting in disillusionment, or bitterness, leading to depression.

I think it is likely there was one, or a repeated series of major disappointments - possibly, one, or both of his parents, did this. This could be the case if one was a alcoholic, for example. Needless to say, any bad Neptunian habits of his own in this department will not help. In which case, no wonder then, that he might 'blame' his Pisces Moon, and the Neptune factors in general, for his predicament.

Another possibility is that the problem comes from within, and neither parent was able to recognise what he was up against.

This is where the mutable 'scatteredness' comes in - the Gemini/Sagittarius polarity being good at so many things, but less able to decide where to major, let alone to concentrate long enough to be able to do so.

Maybe, his Mercury may give more clues there, but I did here that certain kinds of ADD-type issues can actually be behind certain kinds of depression, because of the inability to see things through.

Then there is the 12th-House Pluto. Maybe, there there are issues and truths that may be difficult for him to acknowledge, either because he is too 'nice' to do so, too afraid to hurt other people with hidden resentments. Or afraid of his own power.

This time, I would want to go back to the Mars position to find out how he might be able to assert himself a little more, regarding what it is he wats to do with himself.

And then the Saturn position for where he might find the focus and self-discipline for all that restless mutability.

Perhpas, then, he needs to look at the events of 2002, to get some understanding of what happened then. Something surely triggered something - some kind of setback that really undermined and damaged his belief in himself and self-respect - to say nothing of his emotions.

Understanding what brought about these feelings of failure might be the way to find strategies for coping better with the swings and arrows of life in the future.

Incidentally, I now see that his Mercury and Mars are in Taurus - that rather suggests to me that he does need time to assimilate things - something that maybe he does not always have the patiece - or as yet, the self-discipline - to do.

Thanks so much Lin! Sometimes I feel I may be too hard on him. His gf is a bit more softer, she babies him a lot more than I do. Not sure if he is taking it as me putting him down. I told him numerous times that perhaps moving in another city could lessen his depression! He has lived in the same city all his life, moved out of his parents home at age 30 and recently living at his gf's home which is just down the street from his parents. Yes he is very dependent person, codedepent!



"I want to add that in 2002 transitting Saturn was in Gemini which would account for his intense depression...these were the pertinent dates:
Saturn conj. his Jupiter the first time in August 2001, and also made the first opposition to his Neptune..... then retrograded and came back to that conjunction (and opposition to Neptune) at the end of April of '02. From there it conjuncted his Sun at 17 Gemini, but first made a square to his moon at 16 Pisces (all of May, 02.)"
this is extremely helpful for me actually! because i failed to look at the transits during that time instead looking at todays transits.
His parents a very problematic. His parents do not take his depression serious.


"He has never been able to break free of his childhood, whatever it was, and become "AUTHENTICALLY" HIMSELF. And there's a part of him that knows this, and it's the part of him that makes him depressed."
I wonder how his life would be if he could express his heart (which he said is very difficult for him to do) and be like you said 'authentically' himself. To break free, be on his own. He has a wonderful imagination and loves poetry, music and art (Pisces Moon). He told me several times he wished he had more life experience. He did not elaborate on this but I assume what he means.

I now see that his moon is in bad shape. I honestly thought Sun conjunct Jupiter would give him a more optimistic view of life, but I see now all those negative aspects to the moon, it probably overwhelms that Sun conjunct Jupiter aspect. But Sun conjunct Jupiter is the reason why, I think, he loves the idea of travelling, pursuing his degree in History, and loves philosophy. With his venus and mars opposed to uranus I am surprised he has a stable relationship for so long.
do you think the saturn approaching his ascendant will make him more depressed? he is worried for this depression. i mean he is more sensitive than most people and i am not sure, nor does he, that he can handle this, and pluto will square his asc in a couple of years and conjunct his fourth house. Hopefully pluto crossing over his fourth house will be a positive thing and will motivate him to leave home and find his destiny elsewhere. thanks Lin for your input it has helped me a lot.

Lin said:

There are MANY answers to your question in this chart.
Natally, Neptune (always a problem) squares his Moon. It could be ANY moon, not necessarily Pisces, but Neptune square the moon will always give the native periods of depression. The "clinical" part can be explained by the fact that Neptune rules the 6th house of "health" and "adjustment to one's life" , and with the moon there, and squared by Neptune, he is NOT adjusted to the life he lives.

Neptune also opposes his Sun. This is like putting a 'wet blanket' on all happy things. Also Neptune oopposes his Jupiter, which rules his 3rd house of "daily routine" & expressing himself, among other things. So whatever he does has this "dark spot" hovering over it (symbolically.)
He also has Saturn inconjunct the moon. So his moon (emotional mechanism) is attacked by both Neptune and Saturn. And with the inconjunct, there's little one can do about it. The moon and Saturn represents the parents in the original family. If these people were problematic for your friend, as his chart says they were, the best thing for him would be to be as far away from them as possible, as they don't help him emotionally, they only serve to underscore his issues.

He also has Sun-Jupiter square moon. This guy has very different values, needs and goals from the people who raised him. He has never been able to break free of his childhood, whatever it was, and become "AUTHENTICALLY" HIMSELF. And there's a part of him that knows this, and it's the part of him that makes him depressed.

He finds it hard to express his true feelings, thoughts and philosophy.

He also has Mars and Venus in the same sign, and conjunct (next to each other.) This is not considered fortunate, although EITHER Mars or Venus in Taurus would be fortunate, both together in the 7th house, and opposing Uranus, is difficult.

I think your friend might have a sexual identity problem. MIght. But if not, he does feel a bit hemmed in by his environment and maybe even his relationship. He needs to explore living somewhere else....even if just another city from where he is now.
Sometimes relocation brings personal evolution.

The moon rules his MC (public identity) and this means he can't seem to get away from his deep emotions, and it has come to "define" him, which is negative because if there is a planet which should define one, it would be the SUN which rules the future and authenticity, and not the moon which rules the past and programming from others who happened to be strong when the native was a child.

He also has the north node in the first, which means he needs to promote himself in this life and be independent....or at least interdependent, not codependent.

This is a creative man who has not found the freedom to do creative things.
He must find an environment which will give him freedom & give him inspiration to have freedom of expression. When Saturn rules your 4th house your personal environment is vital to your health and well being and maturity.

I want to add that in 2002 transitting Saturn was in Gemini which would account for his intense depression...these were the pertinent dates:
Saturn conj. his Jupiter the first time in August 2001, and also made the first opposition to his Neptune..... then retrograded and came back to that conjunction (and opposition to Neptune) at the end of April of '02. From there it conjuncted his Sun at 17 Gemini, but first made a square to his moon at 16 Pisces (all of May, 02.)

Even though it moved on, it remained in Gemini until June of '03. Unfortunately, it remained in his 9th house till July, 04. Then it hit his Midheaven (Saturn on midheaven is traditionally negative unless there are great aspects to it) in June '04.

But just before it his his MC it squared both his Pluto and ascendant. This happened in Sept, Oct, Nov, & Dec. of '03. Then it retrograded and came back for another pass at the squares to both his Pluto and ascendant in May and June of '04.

In '05....July & Aug, Saturn (in Leo) squared his Mars and Venus in his 7th house. When it retrograded back it didn't quite get back to 2 degrees (to square Mars and Venus) but it was within orb to feel the effect so spring of '06 probably wasn't happy for him.

Saturn will cross his ascendant next year (around this time). And at that time he'll have a Saturn trine Sun-JUpiter which should help him relocate. However, if he wants to take full advantage of THAT transit, he will need to make the most of the time he has now.

Uranus will be in positive aspect to his Mercury till December of 2010, and so it will help him make big changes. He will make the changes mentally, but he will need encouragement to make the changes physically.

Depressives find it really hard to make big changes...there's a sort of comfort in depression and a fear of the future which keeps them stuck in first gear. If his friends really want to help him they should encourage him to use his intuition in the future.

LIN

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Nexus7 said:

Perhpas, then, he needs to look at the events of 2002, to get some understanding of what happened then. Something surely triggered something - some kind of setback that really undermined and damaged his belief in himself and self-respect - to say nothing of his emotions.

Understanding what brought about these feelings of failure might be the way to find strategies for coping better with the swings and arrows of life in the future.

Incidentally, I now see that his Mercury and Mars are in Taurus - that rather suggests to me that he does need time to assimilate things - something that maybe he does not always have the patiece - or as yet, the self-discipline - to do.

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that year he started university. i know mars is slow to complete a task. i do not know what happend during this time. his parents put him down and he didnt know how to take it and that caused him som grief and is unable to move forward.

Well I am not suggesting you nag or interrogate him, but a little gentle nudging there might be illuminating.

There was the Uranus square Uranus too - everyone goes through a phase of separating from kith and kin then, at this age, rebelling a little bit - but somehow, something must have gone sour there.

Was he bullied? Was it loneliness? Was it difficulties with the studies? Are his parents in the habit of belittling him? Whatever it was, it obviously damaged his sense of emerging adulthood very badly.

ErickaF, your friend also has Algol conjunct Mercury in 8H / Taurus.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/special-horary/algol.php

"In horary astrology, it signifies "losing one's head", metaphorically or literally".

"and pluto will square his asc in a couple of years and conjunct his fourth house."

ONE thing at a time.
Certainly Saturn crossing the ascendant is usually thought of as sort of a new birth, and with the trine to the Sun, should be positive.
LIN

thanks Lin but for someone like my friend, who is more sensitive than others, a major like that (saturn trhough the first house) could not be so positive but I do hope because he is my friedn and love him dearly it turns to be positive for him and comes out of it a new man and more hopeful for him. i hope its a blessing, something that would that would make him more forward with his health. i did now notice the trine (saturn) to his Sun, I hope it would ease his mental pain he is going through. it was comforting to hear the saturn trine his soon soon!

Nexus7 said:

Well I am not suggesting you nag or interrogate him, but a little gentle nudging there might be illuminating.

There was the Uranus square Uranus too - everyone goes through a phase of esparating from kith and kin then, at this age, rebelling a little bit - but somehow, something must have gone sour there.

Was he bullied? Was it loneliness? Was it difficulties with the studies? Are his parents in the habit of belittling him? Whatever it was, it obviously damaged his sense of emerging adulthood very badly.

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I never nag him but I am little hard but its 'tough love'. that is the way i was raised, my father was very strict and i learned to be tough. with my friend i understand he is a sensitve soul & i do not want to hurt him. lately i have been a better listener for him i think that is what a person like him needs.
i talked to his gf about loneliness and his sadness. thing is he's told me he has felt loneliness often, due to his depression. but what is loneliness to me and him are different. he has always had people around, lived at home with his family and brother and has always had a partner since he was a teenager...so real loneliness, like literally having no one to speak to, call, or to hold at night...that is something he has never experienecd. see i never experienced depression. yes as a person i have emotions and yes i have felt hopeless, sad, suffered some emotional pain but my pain is different from his. i have studied depression and i know my sadness, hopelessness doesn't last weeks like a depressed person! i snap out of it and continue more focused and intense as ever. so i know his experience of loneliness is competely different from someone that literally has no one to come home to! understand? so i guess what I am saying no he has never experienced loneliness. but emotional pain of course and weeks and months of feeling empty and hoplessness. when his depression hits its impossible for him to even read a book, so his studies are often put on hold for months even up to a year.

07.Re said:

ErickaF, your friend also has Algol conjunct Mercury in 8H / Taurus.

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/special-horary/algol.php

"In horary astrology, it signifies "losing one's head", metaphorically or literally".

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not sure what that means. is that a very bad star to have near your natal planets? someone mentioned spica, which is on his MC that is very good.

Erickaf said:

not sure what that means. is that a very bad star to have near your natal planets? someone mentioned spica, which is on his MC that is very good.

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Spica in his chart is found in Libra conjunct true node.
He has Sirius on the MC. You can find out more about the stars here:

http://www.astrologycom.com/fixedstars.html#Cancer

Erickaf, it is also possible that your friend is lacking a certain chemical which is necessary to balance out certain brainfunctions. This chemical should be released around the age of 20. My own brother has this. He just started university (bio-chemistry studies) as well.
The psychiatrist found out that his body did not produce that chemical and he now needs to take a supplement for the rest of his life.

There is usually also an emotional problem. He also had that with his father (Saturn in 1st house square his Sun in the 10th) and everytime a heavy transit occurs, he gets into a deep depression or manic state. He has not been well since then and is now 52. In between, like your friend, long periods where he is OK and can even work (simple work). He could never marry because of this illness. It would have ruined his marriage and the life of his wife of course.

so i guess what I am saying no he has never experienced loneliness

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I am not talking abut your friend's situation now. I am talking about what it was that might have precipitated his depression in 2002 - at the time, or whatever else it might have been that first brought this about.

That is something else I have noticed.

The midpoint to his Saturn/Neptune is where his Ascendant lies - possibly too, Pluto is on this midpoint too - just - and if my eyes do not deceive me, Mercury makes a 135% aspect to this point, too.

Saturn/Neptune contacts do not enjoy a great reputation in the world of cosmo-biology, or whatever - even my Harding et.al.It is said to indicate 'chronic non-infectious ailments ' - either way, undermining. Now, if that aspect is within orb - I was looking and checking to see if there might be in the case of Marcury to that Saturn/Neptune, in particular - Harvey and Harding give the interpretation as 'inhibitons in thinking, inclination always to think the worst, a 'nervous disease,' phobias, depressions, energy-sapping conditons.'

This set of midpoint patterns might again help to explain why it is so difficult for your friend to rise out of this.

As far as any Saturn transit to his Ascendant/Pluto goes then, maybe it could be a question of getting a better sense of 'knowing his triggers' in terms of some of the more toxic put-downs there may be in the air.

I know your your friend's NNode is in Libra too, but these look like very critical midpoint aspects to his Ascendant - they must make it very hard for him to feel comfortable about being more independent. As your friend's nodal rulers, Mars and Venus, are in Taurus, in a Venus/ruled sign, maybe that emphasises too difficulties in understanding what interracting between self/other really means.

starlink said:

Erickaf, it is also possible that your friend is lacking a certain chemical which is necessary to balance out certain brainfunctions. This chemical should be released around the age of 20. My own brother has this. He just started university (bio-chemistry studies) as well.
The psychiatrist found out that his body did not produce that chemical and he now needs to take a supplement for the rest of his life.

There is usually also an emotional problem. He also had that with his father (Saturn in 1st house square his Sun in the 10th) and everytime a heavy transit occurs, he gets into a deep depression or manic state. He has not been well since then and is now 52. In between, like your friend, long periods where he is OK and can even work (simple work). He could never marry because of this illness. It would have ruined his marriage and the life of his wife of course.

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I have no idea if my friend is lacking a chemical. Maybe my friend does not have a good psychiatrist? Maybe my friend just didnt't tell me that! I feel really bad for your brother? Is he better now? So once the psychiastrist finds you are lacking this, what is next? Could my friend ever be normal? I know that is a dumb question because he very much feels he will never be. And he is so young, only 32.

Do you think my friend can get married? She really wants to marry but he wants to wait. I say wait...I mean until he gets better treatment.

Nexus7 said:

I am not talking abut your friend's situation now. I am talking about what it was that might have precipitated his depression in 2002 - at the time, or whatever else it might have been that first brought this about.

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But I was talking about about my friends situation in general, how it always has been! I do not know what happened around 2002. I asked him he said it came(depression) out of the blue. Honeslty I just don't believe that. I just have to accept that answer because I can't just pester him in telling me all the things that happened that time. Its the transits that were too much for him to handle perhaps! But the more I think about this its his father probably played a huge part in his illness. He told me his father doesn't take depression seriously. But I wish I knew him at that time, I met my friend in 2004.

I just have to accept that answer because I can't just pester him in telling me all the things that happened that time. Its the transits that were too much for him to handle perhaps?

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No misunderstanding there, I suggested too it might not be worth actually pestering him over it, that might be better left to someone skilled who is not so personally involved with him.

I do think that for a vulnerable individual, the challenges of early adulthood can be more than what the young person can easily handle, yes. And I do think there was a lot of nastiness in the air, that year, even if your Sun and other important planets did not happen to be in the way. Saturn/Pluto indeed.

The Sun can be a significator for the father. So your hunch could be a good one there.

Nexus7 said:

That is something else I have noticed.

The midpoint to his Saturn/Neptune is where his Ascendant lies - possibly too, Pluto is on this midpoint too - just - and if my eyes do not deceive me, Mercury makes a 135% aspect to this point, too.

Saturn/Neptune contacts do not enjoy a great reputation in the world of cosmo-biology, or whatever - even my Harding et.al.It is said to indicate 'chronic non-infectious ailments ' - either way, undermining. Now, if that aspect is within orb - I was looking and checking to see if there might be in the case of Marcury to that Saturn/Neptune, in particular - Harvey and Harding give the interpretation as 'inhibitons in thinking, inclination always to think the worst, a 'nervous disease,' phobias, depressions, energy-sapping conditons.'

This set of midpoint patterns might again help to explain why it is so difficult for your friend to rise out of this.

As far as any Saturn transit to his Ascendant/Pluto goes then, maybe it could be a question of getting a better sense of 'knowing his triggers' in terms of some of the more toxic put-downs there may be in the air.

I know your your friend's NNode is in Libra too, but these look like very critical midpoint aspects to his Ascendant - they must make it very hard for him to feel comfortable about being more independent. As your friend's nodal rulers, Mars and Venus, are in Taurus, in a Venus/ruled sign, maybe that emphasises too difficulties in understanding what interracting between self/other really means.

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Yes its so hard for him to be independent. And he is very romantic too(venus in taurus and pisces moon) but its hard for him to even find true love or to ask out a girl because he has never done that, because his depression causes him some low self esteem.
I told him that once saturn crosses his asc and pluto perhaps he will opens his eyes wider on what he really wants in life and to motiviate himself to do what he always wanted, to start that book he always wanted to start on and maybe publish it. maybe its wishful thinking on my part, i don't know. or maybe he knows its just wishful thinking.


who is harding? what does he say about depression? what is the name of the book? i am interested in reading that?