The Twelfth House

sandstone

Banned
hi anachiel,

i guess we disagree.. i think the dalai lama is a good example for 12th house and 12th sign energies.. i don't put people on different pedestals.. i don't know if the dalai lama would either.. we all have a role to play on the stage of life which might be valued differently by people thinking in a materialistic way, but we are all equal spiritually.. it is the same spirit that guides all of us whether we recognize it or not. that is how i see it anyway..
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
I think I have spoken about this on another thread but I'll say it again...

I have the Moon in Pisces in the 12th, intercepted, part of a Grand Cross and a Kite...

The intercepted part is what puzzles me the most! What is its meaning? In the 12 AND intercepted? Double-time harder to get there?

And I also have Jupiter and Saturn intercepted in the 6th.

About being interested in spiritual things - of course I am, is there anybody who isn't?:tongue:

I have been in hospital as a child, I felt my whole life is a prison made of suffering and limitation (again, mostly as a child), I felt my body is a prison from which I'll escape only when I'll die (the ruler of the 12th is Uranus in the 8th, rather well aspected).

I used to hide as a child, later I used to do my best to be unnoticed in a crowd. At school I was rather timid but I had very good results and I was pushed in front of everybody against my will. In high-school I was elected class president against my will (!) and the most noticeable thing I did was that I managed to help the whole class skip lessons - I once got them out for a whole day. Now I realised I gave them what I had - being "invisible".

While in college I dreamed for years that I'm in a room I can't get out and when I do I just get into another room I can't escape. (It resembles a film called "The Cube") My whole professional and financial situation seemed like a trap.

I had workplaces where I was just "stuck". And now I finally got what I thought to be my dream profession (a doctor)only to find it's a sort of trap - I don't like it but I would like to do it and I have no other choice for now.

I want to help people (and anybody really) but their suffering overwhelms me and in the end makes me the least indicated person to help someone.
But I still desire to help them so I get up and go to the hospital and try to "do my thing" and things happen (always...) and I get home more wounded then when I got up. So I get upset and decide I'll quit (That's it! I have the right to be happy too!) and I start looking for other jobs but I realise they don't make me happy either...
And sometimes when I just cannot do it I don't go to work... My colleagues look at me like crazy:w00t:, my superior says to me - what's wrong with you, are you dying, again?:whistling: (Didn't you die last week,too?)

I try to develop my "tougher" side - Leo Sun, Aries Asc but it still hurts.

As I child I had a very traumatic family life and I was also ill. And I remember I prayed (I was desperate - I wanted to run from home or die but I was too afraid of either) that if God would get me out of that hell I'll come back and help other people get out of there too.

And somehow since I decided to be a doctor and told everyone my condition improved and I came to not even getting flue! ("Serve or suffer", even in intention)

One of my friends recommended me a book called "The elegance of the Hedgehog" - that's how she sees me - and I was surprised to find it is about a woman who hides her knowledge and her true self. So the matters of the 12th house, in plain sight for others! (I had no idea it was that obvious)

As a conclusion, I don't consider this placement in the 12th as a benefit.
Maybe it gives compassion or artistic talents or at least a sensitivity to arts. To me it gives suffering and it sabotages the very thing I want to do - to help others.
So here's the trap - if I hadn't cared I wouldn't have wanted to help, but now that I do I can't because my feelings get in the way.
 

sandstone

Banned
hi bubuza dulce,

thanks for sharing your touching post. as for the astrological concept of interception, i don't believe in it, but many others do so you will have to get some input from them. aries rising with moon in pisces is clearly 12th house and sign for me.. your story is also very 12th house in nature.

a grand cross is a bit like 12th house symbolically in that the energies of the planets are locked in a pattern that it is difficult to get out of unless there are some release points off some of the squares.. usually there is. remember that the moon has a close association to childhood and is said to rule the very first part of life..

sometimes a trap is a form of freedom when we recognize this is just what the trap offers us.. experiencing pain allows us to develop a greater sense of compassion for others which is exactly how you have described your situation and why you have pursued your particular path in life. most people are unaware of just how trapped they are by life.. far better to recognize this and have an inkling of the possibility of freedom that goes with it then to be trapped and not know it. i think you have found your freedom by the sound of it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
Anachiel, while I "get your drift" the Dalai Lama's chart is highly relevant to 12th house matters. First, he always had the choice of abdicating, or not fulfilling his hereditary duties. Second, does anyone deny how dedicated he has been to being a strong force for a Buddhist message in the world?

Then I guess we could think in terms of souls deliberately incarnating into particular life situations.
 

Carris

Well-known member
I think I have spoken about this on another thread but I'll say it again...

I have the Moon in Pisces in the 12th, intercepted, part of a Grand Cross and a Kite...

The intercepted part is what puzzles me the most! What is its meaning? In the 12 AND intercepted? Double-time harder to get there?

And I also have Jupiter and Saturn intercepted in the 6th.

About being interested in spiritual things - of course I am, is there anybody who isn't?:tongue:

I have been in hospital as a child, I felt my whole life is a prison made of suffering and limitation (again, mostly as a child), I felt my body is a prison from which I'll escape only when I'll die (the ruler of the 12th is Uranus in the 8th, rather well aspected).

I used to hide as a child, later I used to do my best to be unnoticed in a crowd. At school I was rather timid but I had very good results and I was pushed in front of everybody against my will. In high-school I was elected class president against my will (!) and the most noticeable thing I did was that I managed to help the whole class skip lessons - I once got them out for a whole day. Now I realised I gave them what I had - being "invisible".

While in college I dreamed for years that I'm in a room I can't get out and when I do I just get into another room I can't escape. (It resembles a film called "The Cube") My whole professional and financial situation seemed like a trap.

I had workplaces where I was just "stuck". And now I finally got what I thought to be my dream profession (a doctor)only to find it's a sort of trap - I don't like it but I would like to do it and I have no other choice for now.

I want to help people (and anybody really) but their suffering overwhelms me and in the end makes me the least indicated person to help someone.
But I still desire to help them so I get up and go to the hospital and try to "do my thing" and things happen (always...) and I get home more wounded then when I got up. So I get upset and decide I'll quit (That's it! I have the right to be happy too!) and I start looking for other jobs but I realise they don't make me happy either...
And sometimes when I just cannot do it I don't go to work... My colleagues look at me like crazy:w00t:, my superior says to me - what's wrong with you, are you dying, again?:whistling: (Didn't you die last week,too?)

I try to develop my "tougher" side - Leo Sun, Aries Asc but it still hurts.

As I child I had a very traumatic family life and I was also ill. And I remember I prayed (I was desperate - I wanted to run from home or die but I was too afraid of either) that if God would get me out of that hell I'll come back and help other people get out of there too.

And somehow since I decided to be a doctor and told everyone my condition improved and I came to not even getting flue! ("Serve or suffer", even in intention)

One of my friends recommended me a book called "The elegance of the Hedgehog" - that's how she sees me - and I was surprised to find it is about a woman who hides her knowledge and her true self. So the matters of the 12th house, in plain sight for others! (I had no idea it was that obvious)

As a conclusion, I don't consider this placement in the 12th as a benefit.
Maybe it gives compassion or artistic talents or at least a sensitivity to arts. To me it gives suffering and it sabotages the very thing I want to do - to help others.
So here's the trap - if I hadn't cared I wouldn't have wanted to help, but now that I do I can't because my feelings get in the way.
Hi Bubuza Dulce

Your moon in pisces in 12th does seem to be the handle of a bucket chart. Moon in pisces absorb and pick up moods of people around them and the atmosphere - they are called psychic sponges. That's why you feel so overwhelmed at seeing others suffer.

The strong 12th emphasis would point to "selfless service" and "spirituality" through the moon's (nurturing, mothering) qualities in a pisces (compassionate, sensitive, imaginative, intuitive) way.

However, the many oppositions and squares to this moon bring difficulties and challenges and trigger off the negative traits of the signs and planets. It also explains the nightmares and dreams. Neptune as the most elevated planet made you a healer ("dream" profession?) - but with so many hard aspects - that you had to face all these problems. You do sound like a neptune person with hard aspects - the depression, the wanting to escape, not being able to go to work. Its all because of the hard aspects to this very sensitive spiritual fragile planet.

Why would you want to attribute all your difficulties to the 12th house?

Moon, as the handle of the bucket, is the key to all your problems - think in a spiritual way - that all of us humans have incarnated here to learn lessons and grow spiritually. We are eternal, indestructible souls/spirits - so don't get too emotional and upset by this temporary human life - just look for the lessons that god wants you to learn. It is your duty to help people - let god decide on the outcome of your help - you are not responsible for their suffering.

"As a conclusion, I don't consider this placement in the 12th as a benefit". I wish you would not attribute all the problems your life to the 12th without analysis. You are unnecessarily scaring people who don't have much knowledge of astrology. All your problems are due to the hard aspects. The moon in 12th is your greatest gift and strength - because the greatest gift is the ability and desire to serve others.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
Here is another example, Mother Teresa, of someone who was not born into a religious vocation, but chose it. At first glance her 12th house might not seem strong, as it is untenanted. But with Sagittarius on the cusp, as well as Sagittarius rising (in Placidus it's a duplicate sign,) Jupiter is going to be a power house in her chart.

(Yes, I know all about whole signs and equal houses, friends! I happen to think duplicate and intercepted signs have real meaning. To each her own. I also am aware of Mother Teresa's critics, but hey-- anyone here have a vocation to work with leprosy patients in Calcutta?)

Jupiter conjuncts Mother Teresa's MC, in the 9th house of religion (in the sense of theology) and appears to be in the Gauquelin power zone. Then Jupiter is deposited by Mercury, which is very strong in its own sign of Virgo, and Mercury also is a duplicate house ruler, notably of the 6th house of work and service. Jupiter squares Neptune, which constantly challenged (square) her to develop both the traditional religious (Jupiter, 9th house) and more mystical (Neptune in Cancer) side of her nature. Again, I've input some asteroids that deal with wisdom in some fashion, and there are some conjunctions with planets.

So another point to be made, is that we kind of have to do a bicycle tour of the chart to get a good sense of the 12th house and how it operates. Immediate appearances don't tell the full story.
 

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bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
hi bubuza dulce,

thanks for sharing your touching post. as for the astrological concept of interception, i don't believe in it, but many others do so you will have to get some input from them. aries rising with moon in pisces is clearly 12th house and sign for me.. your story is also very 12th house in nature.

a grand cross is a bit like 12th house symbolically in that the energies of the planets are locked in a pattern that it is difficult to get out of unless there are some release points off some of the squares.. usually there is. remember that the moon has a close association to childhood and is said to rule the very first part of life..

sometimes a trap is a form of freedom when we recognize this is just what the trap offers us.. experiencing pain allows us to develop a greater sense of compassion for others which is exactly how you have described your situation and why you have pursued your particular path in life. most people are unaware of just how trapped they are by life.. far better to recognize this and have an inkling of the possibility of freedom that goes with it then to be trapped and not know it. i think you have found your freedom by the sound of it.

Hi Sandstone,

I think those interceptions are important because my life revolved a lot around those 6th -12th house issues. And speaking about traps, I read that one way of working with an interception would be to look for the duplicate signs - in my case they are Cap and Cancer - and work with their rulers. Well the Moon and Saturn are the intercepted ones... So an intricate trap!:wink:

I understand really well that - the trap is a form of freedom. The "prison" is not only something that keeps us separate from the rest of the world but it also protects us from it!
The thing is that I realise the problems my "traps" have kept me away from only after I leave them behind. So I don't enjoy the time spent in those confined situations but rather struggle to get out.

In one of my dreams about getting out of the room I became so tired with trying to get out that I abandoned. And I said - what is the problem if I don't want to get out? What is the difference? If I go "outside" wouldn't I be in other rooms like this one, wouldn't I breathe the same air as here?

What is the difference between "in" and "out"? What defines them, what separates them?
And I realised only my desire of being in one place or another makes one of them "out" and another one "in" but in fact they're the same.

"In" and "Out" don't exist!

I could create prisons everywhere by not wanting to be there and I could destroy them by accepting them. If I have no desire of being anywhere I'm free. I am always in the same place as I have been and I don't know if it's possible to be anywhere but "here".

You sound very optimistic saying that I found freedom. Well, partly, maybe.

The thing is that I still desire to be an amazing courageous hero-type (my secret desire:biggrin:) and every time I confront that image with a very different reality (it's like a Pisces wanting to be a Leo-Aries) I get hurt.
In fact I feel as if that person already exists underneath all these layers of fear so I don't have to create it but set it free.

The freedom as I imagine it would be to wake one day and realise I'm an incredibly courageous person. To feel the courage and calmness flowing through the deepest parts of my being. Then I would smile and anything could happen to me - to live on, not live on, nothing would matter. And I somehow have an idea of how it is to be like this - like a very distant memory.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Why would you want to attribute all your difficulties to the 12th house?
Hi Carris,

I'm not sure I understand what you mean.

For example if I had the Moon let's say in Leo in the 5th then things would have been completely different for me! Or maybe in Cap in the 10th - I couldn't have cared less:whistling:

Of course there would have been other issues but I wouldn't have cared so much for them and that's what I want in the end - not to care so much!

Or to be able to transcend my emotions (I keep trying to do that, meditation and other ways), or maybe have an on/off switch. I'd still live my life as it is but I'd be able to suffer less and help others more!

You shouldn't take my whining too seriously, I enjoy talking about my emotions (Mercury in the 4th in Cancer:happy:) and I am relatively stable compared to other people I know. It's just that I have that desire lately (since that Pluto transit over MC which I noticed quincunxes my Sun also) to really make some order in my career and :
a)do it "right" and even have some fun doing it, going with pleasure at work or
b)get the ... out of there!

I don't want to "sacrifice" myself doing this. It's not how it should be, so I'm struggling to find a new way. I don't want to help others by hurting me, I began to understand I should treat myself with compassion, like I would be "someone else". I'm still very new to this feeling and I don't know yet how to use it.
 

waybread

Well-known member
OK, just one more chart!

For anyone who is unfamiliar with the technique of working with "accidental house cusp rulers" or "lords," an easy way to think about it is: "The house over which a planet rules serves the purposes of the house in which that planet stands," according to K. Hamaker-Zondag, The House Connection. The house ruler is the planet ruling the sign on the house cusp.

This one is of Thomas Merton, who became a Trappist monk, living a life of extreme seclusion in a monastic cell much of the time. He was also a prolific author, notably of his autobiography The Seven Storey Mountain; and someone who spoke out on social justice issues.

This chart illustrates the spiritual nature of the 12th house more clearly. Merton has Jupiter (theology) in Aquarius in the 12th. Jupiter in the 12th also conjuncts Mercury (writing) and the NN of personal growth.

With Aquarius as the sign on the cusp of the 12th house, we see the modern ruler Uranus conjunct both Merton's sun (identity) and 12th house cusp. Aquarius's traditional ruler Saturn closely conjuncts his IC/Pluto (foundations) and they make powerful trines to his 12th house Mercury-Jupiter.

Merton has Venus in Sagittarius in the 9th house of theology and prophecy, conjunct his MC of vocation. Its cusp ruler is Jupiter, which puts us back in the 12th house. Similarly, Merton's Saturn (traditional ruler of Aquarius--the sign on his 12th house cusp) in Gemini is ruled by Mercury. Mercury loops us back to the 12th house yet again.

The 6th house of service looks pretty empty, Yet with Merton's Leo moon in the 5th on the cusp of the 6th, perhaps we see someone who did seek the spotlight on occasion (as public speaker, best-selling author) and someone with a service orientation. The ruler of the 6th, the sun, eventually leads back to the 12th house through Saturn (Capricorn on the sun's house cusp) and thereby back to Mercury in the 12th via Gemini as the sign on Saturn's house cusp.

Saturn (traditional ruler of Aquarius) and Mercury (ruler of Gemini) are in mutual reception.

Again, I know you whole-signers are out there. If you've got an interpretation of Mother Teresa's and Thomas Merton's vocations, by all means, present it!
 

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bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Moon, as the handle of the bucket, is the key to all your problems - think in a spiritual way - that all of us humans have incarnated here to learn lessons and grow spiritually. We are eternal, indestructible souls/spirits - so don't get too emotional and upset by this temporary human life - just look for the lessons that god wants you to learn. It is your duty to help people - let god decide on the outcome of your help - you are not responsible for their suffering.

"As a conclusion, I don't consider this placement in the 12th as a benefit". I wish you would not attribute all the problems your life to the 12th without analysis. You are unnecessarily scaring people who don't have much knowledge of astrology. All your problems are due to the hard aspects. The moon in 12th is your greatest gift and strength - because the greatest gift is the ability and desire to serve others.

I don't consider this placement, MY placement, with all MY aspects as a benefit. I wasn't speaking in general about someone else's Moon in the 12th with other aspects and/or in other sign. I thought that was obvious.

And "so don't get too emotional and upset by this temporary human life - just look for the lessons that god wants you to learn" - I don't have words to respond to that... I really don't...
 

Munch

Well-known member
And "so don't get too emotional and upset by this temporary human life - just look for the lessons that god wants you to learn" - I don't have words to respond to that... I really don't...

Maybe God doesn't exist. Maybe he/it/she does. Either way I think we presume too much to think we have any clue whatsoever about God's intentions. Maybe there are lessons, then again maybe life is just unfair and we find a way to balance that within ourselves by saying God wants us to learn something. Maybe God is just another band aide. Then again, maybe not.


I think Douglas Adam's portrayal of God as an old senile man living in a shack all alone with his cat on a planet that is only visited every now and then by a select few government agents is quite accurate. If I recall he had no idea about what was going on at all. He couldn't accept that he 'KNEW' anything at all other than what was right in front of him. The twist to this? I think we are all that old man. We are all God, but maybe we should also adjust our expectations.

I dunno, just my thoughts of late. I used to be ridiculously spiritual. In a weird way, while I don't see spirituality as 'wrong' or 'unhealthy' in a general sense; I do kinda get the feeling that it's only going to do so much for someone if they can't operate in the here and now.

That feeling is strongly attributed to the harsh jerk of Pluto transiting my tight natal Moon/Venus/Neptune stellium in Sagittarius (3rd house - my goodness what a beautiful, dreamy time -that was actually a nightmare, I just couldn't see it), and then progressing across my natal Eros and IC/MC axis (right now, in the 4th). Reality is hitting home like you wouldn't believe. Suddenly Spirituality is almost an anathema for me, and I'm okay with it.

I HAVE to cut myself off and step back. Everything I do, I consciously try to do it with full on intention. I focus on what must be done and don't think about if it's God's will or what I am meant to learn. Not any more anyway.

My spirituality was of great comfort to me and was how I instinctively related to life. Unfortunately, that all encompassing focus left me unable to really operate in an independent and healthy manner in this very real, here and now reality. I became a burden and a victim all too easily. Pluto has made me pay for that big time. And no, I don't see it as a judgement or punishment. Pluto is just waking me up to the reality of life so that I can not only cope but be of real world assistance.

-kinda jaded though
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
Dear Munch,

I understand what Carris meant. I have said things of this sort many times in my life and I meant well. I'm sure she did also.

Only it made me feel... ok, I cannot tell you in words but you should have seen my face!:smile:

And I can relate to your post in some way. I believed in God for many years and it had been my line of resistance until, desiring to find "the real truth" I abandoned all beliefs (I thought if He exists, I'll find Him and if He doesn't, I'll find the truth) and without realising I became an atheist in a few years...

And then I realised I was lying to myself again - in the first years I saw only the good and then I came to see only the bad, I wanted the truth and I lied to myself all the time. (I have no doubt I do that even as we speak:tongue:) I explain this as related to Neptune, the only retrograd in my chart, elevated and with some stressful aspects. I desired the truth so much and I got caught up in so many lies that I began to wonder how the people who don't want the truth live? Could their lives be more caught up in lies than mine?

You can think you're spiritual, or atheist, or jaded but in the end ...
It's OK.
(I know it's very interpretable, it's not a statement I could defend with logical arguments,though I know what I mean)

Do whatever works for you at this moment.
I wish you all the best and sorry for getting off topic!:smile:
 

sandstone

Banned
bubuza dulce,

thanks for your additional comments. we all have to find an astrological system that works for each of us individually.. i am not in favour of giving greater importance to houses then i am to signs, but this is just me.. i do think the ruler of a sign matters.. perhaps the location of your first house aries ascendant interferes with it's ability to express itself in a powerful self confident manner.. perhaps the ruler of your midheaven has some bearing on why you see the 6/12 axis as having real bearing on your life.. these are considerations i make.. to give it all up to a particular house system, especially one that over-rides the natural relationships going on between signs themselves isn't my approach. i consider aspects between planets as having great bearing on the action of planets too..

mother teresa's chart comments :

i see her life as one of service to others. i think the signs virgo and pisces form a polarity where being of service is a means of greater self realization.. jupiter is quite strong being conjunct the 11th sign midheaven to her ascendant and her ascendant ruler. that she was a missionary in a foreign country who started and headed a benevolent humanitarian type organization - missionaries of charity while being very well known and a huge success in the world community would seem to connect directly with this jupiter position in her chart. venus in the 9th sign is ruler to the midheaven, moon and jupiter..

her natal moon in taurus conjunct the north node is also in the 6th house/sign from the sagitarrius ascendant which further emphasizes her need to be of service in a tangible and pragmatic way.. one can note the transits in 1950 at the start of this organization she spearheaded and see saturn transiting the sign virgo with neptune directly on her midheaven for much of 1950.

as for 12th house ruler - mars or pluto depending on whether you like traditional or modern rulers, pluto is the planetoid closest an angle in this chart, about 3 degrees off the descendant. to me this again shows her involvement with people starving and close to deaths door and of being service to these people in great need.. mars also in virgo is directly square the saturn/neptune midpoint which i mentioned upstream.. this midpoint seems to show up in an important context with those given over to service to others as well. either way one looks at it the sign virgo has a strong association of service, not necessarily in a community minded role, but in mother teresa's case as ruler of the 12th, much more so.

waybread, i am just reading your comment at the bottom of you post now.. you appear to like challenging others! i do too, lol.. i may get to thomas mertons chart later.. thanks..
 

StillOne

Well-known member
i have 4 planets in 12th house (venus, saturn, jupiter, and pluto in Libra). Also, its ruler is venus so that would make the ruler of the 12th in the 12th house. And i am an atheist...i don't believe in that spiritual ******** hehe

Would you care to post a chart?
 

StillOne

Well-known member
d00dle,
Have you had your Saturn Return yet? I didn't get the "itch" until my return hit. Even then, it took several years after to find what I was "missing".
 

Carris

Well-known member
yes, Saturn transits 12th house right now :) maybe because it's in libra, i can dedicate and focus all of my energies on love and relationship matters where i feel lacking right now in life general not spiritual path.
Yes, its true what StillOne says. My shift to a spiritual focus happened around 30. I guess saturn gives you enough rope to hang yourself before he pulls the rope tight around your neck amd leads you to the light.

And as I have written before on this thread, why do people confuse spirituality with religion? The two have absolutely nothing in common! As NeoWarrior has written above - the 12th planets are the talents by which you provide "selfless service" to mankind. These planets give their qualities to shed light on the different aspects spirituality.

For example, venus in libra in 12th may mean that you may help (selfless service) people simply by being charming, tolerant, balanced, sociable, peaceloving, tactful and diplomatic. This is a major service to mankind so troubled by aggression, intolerance and grouchy people on a daily basis. This has nothing to do with god or religion.
 
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Carris

Well-known member
my father passed away when i was 5yrs old...from 15-28 yrs of age, experienced isolation and loneliness (i couldn't make a friend during that period). at one point, i went 2-3 yrs straight w/o talking a sentence with anyone.
Doodle

Mars is your most elevated planet in cancer in 9th. Mars (active, impatient, aggressive, energetic) as ruler of 6th (health issues) in emotional sensitive cancer, receiving hard aspect from pluto (ruler of ascendent) could have caused these problems. This square could also indicate a challenge between 1st and 6th matters Your work/service/health/employment is maybe not aligned with your outer personality.

North Node is conjunct the MC-IC axis - perhaps causing the loss of a parent.

You have saturn-venus conjunct. I have an exact opposition. I know how it is - the harshness, depression and loneliness they bring.

Moon in 8th can cause be a bit tough ("causes deep sensitivity to all 8th house areas - taboos, loss, death, abuse, occult, shared resources and sex. The 8th house moon needs to merge emotionally with others, and they become deeply and intensely attached to people, and it takes a very long time to recover from hurts, rejections and losses. They may have come from a family background where these same intense and passionate feelings was frustrated, and so blackened the emotional atmosphere of their childhood.")

You have a locomotive type chart with Neptune (dreamer, visionary, deciever), ruler of 5th (fun, recreation, romance), leading the planets. Since Neptune and moon (emotions, feeling, intuitive, habits, instinctive responses) ruler of 9th (education, philosophy) are in hard aspect, this could indicate the problematic areas of these two planets. The over-sensitivity of neptune, wanting to retreat and seek seclusion.

This opposition in the 2nd-8th axis means "The 2nd/8th house issues revolve around the theme of personal security and sharing our material and emotional resources with others. Life circumstances will force us to find the balance between developing our own values and learning to trust ourselves, and putting our trust in others without depending solely upon them."

So, your problems really have nothing to do with the 12th house.
 
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