General consensus

[rocme]

I do respect peoples privacy and all that but I’d really like to know how people manage to interpret a Horary chart when the person has not put in the time, date or location of the chart. All I’m able to look at is if respective significators are in ‘bad’ houses or that planets are in fall or detriment. I mean most people want to know “will something happen” don’t they? Well how can you tell if it’s an incoming or outgoing aspect without this basic information? I’m trying to learn and love to try and interpret charts and help people but I reckon Horary is difficult enough without this added difficulty. So I’d love some advice here before I decide to completely ignore these charts for good.
Thanks

[Konrad]

Personally, if I couldn't create the chart myself with all the relevant data, I wouldn't bother trying to read it.

[aquarius7000]

Rocme,

Originally Posted by rocme

Well how can you tell if it’s an incoming or outgoing aspect without this basic information?

It's not difficult at all to identify "an incoming or outgoing aspect without this basic information". What you have to do, when considering an aspect between two planets, is to see whether the faster planet has covered more distance in terms of degrees as compared to the slower one of the two. For instance, if you were considering a sextile between the Moon and Ven, understandably the Moon is the faster of the two. Now, if Moon were at 3° Cap and Ven at 10° Pisces, then the Moon is yet to cover a distance of 7° to 'perfect' (exact) its sextile to Ven, hence, this would be an incoming aspect-sextile of the Moon to Ven. Conversely, if the same Moon were at 10° Cap and Ven at 3° Pisces, then the aspect-sextile between the two has already separated, so it is an outgoing aspect. Am off to watch a movie now.

AQ7

[rocme]

Originally Posted by aquarius7000

Rocme,

It's not difficult at all to identify "an incoming or outgoing aspect without this basic information". What you have to do, when considering an aspect between two planets, is to see whether the faster planet has covered more distance in terms of degrees as compared to the slower one of the two. For instance, if you were considering a sextile between the Moon and Ven, understandably the Moon is the faster of the two. Now, if Moon were at 3° Cap and Ven at 10° Pisces, then the Moon is yet to cover a distance of 7° to 'perfect' (exact) its sextile to Ven, hence, this would be an incoming aspect-sextile of the Moon to Ven. Conversely, if the same Moon were at 10° Cap and Ven at 3° Pisces, then the aspect-sextile between the two has already separated, so it is an outgoing aspect. Am off to watch a movie now.

AQ7

Thank you aquarius 7000.I'm still learning myself so I think it'll be a while before I'm able to do what you suggested or maybe I just don't have the patience right now.
As much as I'd love to try with these charts I think I'll ignore them for the time being as it's starting to irritate me.

[rocme]

Originally Posted by Konrad

Personally, if I couldn't create the chart myself with all the relevant data, I wouldn't bother trying to read it.

Yes I agree.

[starlink]

I do respect peoples privacy and all that but I’d really like to know how people manage to interpret a Horary chart when the person has not put in the time, date or location of the chart

Rocme, I dont really understand what you mean. Without putting up a chart (on the basis of time, date and location) there wont be a chart to interprete at all.
So how come you write this then?

As much as I'd love to try with these charts

Anyone can put up a chart, totally anonymus, for a certain question and we can all try to interprete that chart. We dont have to know anything about time, place etc. unless you want to draw the chart on your own computer at home. In such a case, you could ask the poster via PM, to give you the required details.But when a chart is put here in this forum on the screen,(with or without data, then we can all interprete it.

All I’m able to look at is if respective significators are in ‘bad’ houses or that planets are in fall or detriment.

But it is enough to see the planets and their aspects. Aquarius7000 has explained how to judge in- and outgoing aspects. You dont need to know what time the question was asked and in which country. All we need to know is the exact question itself.

[Olivia]

Not Starlink and Aqua, obviously, but do you guys know what aspects are and how they're formed and the relative rates of planetary motion? The Moon is fastest, then Mercury, Venus, Sun, Mars, Jupiter, to Saturn being the slowest?

Occasionally a retrograde can ***** something up, and at that point an ephemeris is useful because maybe Mars is faster than a Venus about to station and an aspect won't perfect, because Venus will retrograde before it does or a similar situation, but for the most part it's pretty straightforward.

So long as you've learned what aspects are and how they come to be. If you haven't, I'll have a look round the Net - I'm sure somebody's got a basic tutorial up somewhere. You need this to do any kind of astrology - horary, natal, all of it.

[Konrad]

Yeah I know what aspects are and I know which planets are faster than others.

I wouldn't interpret a chart unless I had the full details because there is more to a chart than just the main significators. I could have a list of the positions of the main sigs. and their house numbers but there could be an aspect to another planet or a node that I've not been told about. Hell, there could even be a planet blocking an aspect between two significators that the person supplying the info doesn't see. If I have the whole chart then I can search it thoroughly before making any judgement. You know anything can happen, for instance, someone could give me the incorrect information on the significators positions, they could even give me the wrong significators. If I have the chart details or at least a JPEG of the chart then I can be sure of what I am interpreting.

[Olivia]

And you can do that by looking at the chart itself.

[Konrad]

Hmmm, I said I need to look at the chart, or be able to create the chart, myself before I judge it but you think that I should instead interpret the chart by looking at the chart itself?

Wow, this information will stay with me til I die. Thank you!

[Olivia]

Originally Posted by Konrad

Personally, if I couldn't create the chart myself with all the relevant data, I wouldn't bother trying to read it.

The above quote is what's confusing me.

[rocme]

I personally can't just look at a chart with my current level of skill and tell what is an incoming aspect or outgoing,and yes with all the included information like the date,time and location I would put that info into my own programme ,without it I can't.
C'est la vie it's not my chart and the person who wants their chart interpreting just has to wait for a skilled astrologer to read it

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by Olivia

The above quote is what's confusing me.

Well the second reply should clear it up for you.

[Vinyasa]

Normally I use the hour and place in order to check whether a chart is radical (i.e. check the ruler of the hour, whether of the same sign or triplicity etc). In the charts I post, either I give hour+place or (most of the times) I check in advance whether radical and give the info by myself (i.e. post only radical charts).

If an astrologer wants to check this parameter also before judging, I see no problem in PMing the poster.

[rocme]

Originally Posted by Olivia

Not Starlink and Aqua, obviously, but do you guys know what aspects are and how they're formed and the relative rates of planetary motion?

Yes I do know what aspects .Well as you pointed out Starlink and Aqua obviously and I dare say yourself also don't need this basic info.
So the results are in the experts don't need to run charts through their own programme and the novices do.
Thanks everyone

[Olivia]

It's odd, Venusinfurs - the lord of the hour being of the same complexion as the ascendant is usually everybody's first rule of radicality - and the one everybody ignores. Everybody.

Maybe Dariot didn't - he said under no circumstances to judge a chart if they didn't match, but everybody else says be careful, and goes ahead and judges the charts anyway. It's a consideration, not a flat-out 'don't do it' rule. Though if you see five or six considerations, the chart probably isn't valid for one reason or another.

For me, it's early or late ascendants that make me a bit nervous (if the rest of the chart is striking, I'll judge it anyway), but the ones I won't touch are Saturn in 10. The idea being that even if you give the person the name, address, and telephone number of their spouse-to-be and you're dead right, they'll still tell a few thousand of their best friends how wrong you were - and really unpleasant to them, and you charge too much and are to be avoided at all costs. In anything that isn't a 10th house question, I'll always give that one a pass. And that one, more than Saturn in 7, is the judgement impairing one for me. I look at the chart and know I'm missing some huge chunk of the puzzle, so I refer out. I've only had a handful of them, thankfully.

If Saturn's in 7 and it's not a 7th house question, I'll be really careful, but I'll usually go ahead with the judgement. If I'm doing my own horary and Saturn's in 1, the same thing applies.

So I guess we all have different standards. But lack of agreeement with the planetary hour isn't observed by anyone I know. Even though it's almost always the first consideration listed.

[Olivia]

No, it's not. I don't belong to the Astrology Association where I live. A big reason for that is that at one meeting, an actual honest-to-goodness fistfight broke out over house systems (I'm at a high latitude, but not polar).

That's beyond ludicrous.

I know a lot of good horary astrologers who use Placidus, my tutor swore by Alcabitius, and I use Regiomontanus. If you've been using a house system for a while, have an affinity for it, and it works for you - keep using it.

[Olivia]

I use a combination of Regio and Whole Sign for natal charts - mostly Regio, but I like to look at the Whole Sign picture, too. Some of the obvious - if the Moon was in 11 by Regio, but in the 12th by Whole Sign, no way no how would I give it hyleg.

And a few other things - for instance I have Venus in Pisces in partile square (about 4 minutes out) to my Ascendant, though it's in 3 by Regio - but I can see that 3/4 dichotomy (it's also my almuten).

Use the system that makes the most sense to you, but if it's natal, give a quick look to the whole signs, too - sometimes that can help things make more sense.

[Vinyasa]

Originally Posted by Venusinfurs

If a horary chart is deemed as unradical, is it unreliable in reading? I find that very few of the horary charts that I do are radical expect a very small handful, and the very small handful always seem to be accurate.
Therefore would it be best to only read radical charts?

Originally Posted by Olivia

It's odd, Venusinfurs - the lord of the hour being of the same complexion as the ascendant is usually everybody's first rule of radicality - and the one everybody ignores. Everybody. [...]
So I guess we all have different standards. But lack of agreeement with the planetary hour isn't observed by anyone I know. Even though it's almost always the first consideration listed.

I have decided for myself that, as long as I am learning the horary technique, I will take into consideration all the rules and limitations - it is also a good way for practicing on them all. I think that when in the future I will feel more comfortable with judging a horary chart, I will be also in the position to omit info which is not crucial and get in touch with the chart in a more empirical way. I read both radical and non radical charts, but I check on the radicality, and its absence certainly plays a role if additional to other (negative found) restrictions. If a chart is non-radical however all other considerations are fulfilled, I go on judging it.
For the house system I have found Regiomontanus in horary as the most satisfactory.

[Olivia]

Andrew Bevan has done a lot of work on planetary hours and radicality - and he's good. You can take a look at it here:

http://www.astronor.com/hours.htm

[Gsoler]

I had that same problem a week ago. While it gets clearer (it always does) you can use astrodient's charts.. they also give you a chart with the aspects and it tells you if they are applying or separating.

Originally Posted by rocme

I personally can't just look at a chart with my current level of skill and tell what is an incoming aspect or outgoing,and yes with all the included information like the date,time and location I would put that info into my own programme ,without it I can't.
C'est la vie it's not my chart and the person who wants their chart interpreting just has to wait for a skilled astrologer to read it

[SagiCap]

Originally Posted by Gsoler

you can use astrodient's charts.. they also give you a chart with the aspects and it tells you if they are applying or separating.

Where is that, Gsoler? I mean what part of the chart does is say if it's applying/separating? Do you mean by colour? Blue for applying and red for separating?

[Gsoler]

Create a chart there, once there look at the two options on the left, saying "View the PDF drawing (for subscribers" and the one below. Both show a chart of the aspects, and by how many degrees, either positive or negative. Look at how one planet instersects with another in the chart and you see my point.

Originally Posted by SagiCap

Where is that, Gsoler? I mean what part of the chart does is say if it's applying/separating? Do you mean by colour? Blue for applying and red for separating?

[rocme]

Originally Posted by Gsoler

I had that same problem a week ago. While it gets clearer (it always does) you can use astrodient's charts.. they also give you a chart with the aspects and it tells you if they are applying or separating.

Yes they do but if someone has put a chart up here with no time,date or blinkin location you're not going to be able to re do the chart in astrodient or anywhere else are you?

[Gsoler]

Originally Posted by rocme

Yes they do but if someone has put a chart up here with no time,date or blinkin location you're not going to be able to re do the chart in astrodient or anywhere else are you?

If someone does that of course you can do the chart yourself, if you want to bother.