WTH is a cusp?

[hamsterdance]

I'm reading a book - On the Heavenly Spheres - and it talks about placing planets on the cusp. Except it never explains what a cusp is.

Is it one of those lines in those square charts? Like...would I draw a little planet symbol right on top of one of those lines? Does a line in a chart (whether square or circular) = cusp?

[wintersprite1]

There are 2 types of cusps... a house cusp and a sign cusp. It really is the line showing boundries. I am including a photo of a random chart. The pink arrows are the house cusps.... started from 1 to 12. The green arrows show the cusps of the signs.

Kaiousei no Senshi a member here wrote a blog on cusps back in 2008 located here.

No artistic talent with the arrows in the jpg


TK

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by hamsterdance

I'm reading a book - On the Heavenly Spheres - and it talks about placing planets on the cusp. Except it never explains what a cusp is.

Is it one of those lines in those square charts? Like...would I draw a little planet symbol right on top of one of those lines? Does a line in a chart (whether square or circular) = cusp?

As dr. farr explains, interestingly, the word cusp originally meant a 'sensitive point' WITHIN each house and NOT the 'border of a house' as in modern astrology.

dr. farr's explanation includes an illustration of the ancient method in use more than a thousand years ago

Originally Posted by dr. farr

Cusps:

Today (and for the past thousand years or so) we define cusps as "borders" (coasts), but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp": it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids) and the point of a sword-so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something, and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point"; now, when quadrant systems were developed, this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning", which later came to mean its "border", ie, the "border" between one house and the other. And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps) for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events, the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results, among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this: in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all, and never were so regarded! In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning, not as a "border" but rather as A POINT-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house, was the sensitive point of that house, viz, the sensitive point in whole sign houses-each house-that is the "cusp" of each house-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus: what are the house cusps (sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp") in the whole sign houses of this chart?

Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps" (sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point") that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc, and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well (in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology) during the same period of time-ie, late 8th to early 9th century-this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices, rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign) by a new and more effective method (rheotrius/alchabitius in the West, and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

I quite agree with Waybread in the statement, "so what?" (if old time astrologers did or didn't do something) For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign-it worked better (FOR ME) I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is) or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago: only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above, does it work (producing delineations and predicitions) better than what I have previously been doing?
Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched; but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it, except for beginners-to you who might just be starting out, I would say: try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...

[wintersprite1]

Note, to save on confusion. JupiterAscendant's helpful post is about cusps in the Whole House system of reading a chart. The one I used was either Placidius or Regiomantanus.

TK

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by wintersprite1

Note, to save on confusion. JupiterAscendant's helpful post is about cusps in the Whole House system of reading a chart. The one I used was either Placidius or Regiomantanus.

TK

Exactly, thanks wintersprite1 this subject can seem confusing to begin with

Originally Posted by hamsterdance

.....Is it one of those lines in those square charts? Like...would I draw a little planet symbol right on top of one of those lines? Does a line in a chart (whether square or circular) = cusp?

Funnily enough the short answer is Yes AND No! Here's why:

(1) If we are looking at a natal chart created in Placidus or Regiomontanus as in wintersprite1's example, then the answer is Yes.

e.g. let's say a Placidus 'cusp' is at 4º of any sign and a transiting or natal planet is also at 4º of that same sign THEN that planet is considered to be 'on the cusp'. As well as that many astrologers consider any planet within 5º of a Placidus/Regiomontanus 'cusp' as 'being on the cusp'

HOWEVER,

(2) In contrast, if we are looking at a natal chart created in whole signs and we are using the ancient method of whole sign houses then the answer is No! The 'demarcation lines' of a whole sign houses natal chart are considered to be 'borders' of signs.

The key factor is that the Houses AND Signs were once synonymous so therefore each whole sign house = one whole house.

The 'cusps' of whole sign houses are the 'sensitive points' in each house that are at the same degree as the Ascendant/Descendant/MC/IC axis

p.s. with gratitude and thanks to dr. farr who has explained this idea many times

[marwan38]

Good topic, I never knew of this. So taken that a planet transits a cusp.. would it activate that "sensitive" point? What about aspected cusps?

[dr. farr]

Yes, transits to "cusps" (regardless of how one views what a cusp is), activates the house connected with the "cusp", and aspects to "cusps" have effects upon the house connected with the "cusp"...

[Knight]

Well, I am a bit confused. To be honest, i don`t know exactley what system to use...
Anyway,it seems that placidus fits better on my analysis... but what would say about that another astrologer that uses equal houses system ?? His analysis would differ from mine... ok, then where is the true ?
What about intercept houses ?? I could not find an explanation about theme ! How can we interpret cappy and aqua on 1st house, ok with cusp on cappy... and 2nd house in pisces!
I don`t want to hear anymore answers like "use equal house system..." because I want to use only Placidus, but to understand what means Mars in leo on my 7th house,since cancer is on my 7th cusp and leo is not on any cusp... what about my sun... what house does it rule ???

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by marwan38

Good topic, I never knew of this. So taken that a planet transits a cusp.. would it activate that "sensitive" point?

Potentially. Analyse the sign of the 'sensitive point' aka 'cusp'
i.e. Hellensitically speaking, 'sensitive point' = 'cusp' as explained in a foregoing post

IMPORTANT QUESTIONS

(1) Is the transiting planet the ruler of the sign of the 'sensitive point' aka 'cusp'?

(2) Alternatively is the transiting planet in a sign other than the sign that planet traditionally rules?

Originally Posted by marwan38

What about aspected cusps?

'Cusps' = 'sensitive points'

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Knight

Well, I am a bit confused. To be honest, i don`t know exactley what system to use...Anyway,it seems that placidus fits better on my analysis... but what would say about that another astrologer that uses equal houses system ?? His analysis would differ from mine... ok, then where is the true ?
What about intercept houses ?? I could not find an explanation about theme ! How can we interpret cappy and aqua on 1st house, ok with cusp on cappy... and 2nd house in pisces!
I don`t want to hear anymore answers like "use equal house system..." because I want to use only Placidus, but to understand what means Mars in leo on my 7th house,since cancer is on my 7th cusp and leo is not on any cusp... what about my sun... what house does it rule ???

Of course use Placidus since that works for you