A negative of the conjunction

gimzo23

Well-known member
I found the belowly (in bold) attached explanation and view point on the conjunctions quite interesting. It is stated that planets in a strong conjunction tend to lose much of their separate, individual modes of functioning, and, while it adds a new dimension to the planets involved, it also hinders some of their own natural expression, thus making the individual planet's traits harder to recognize and work with.

So, I guess this can make it harder for a person to fully recognize a planet's own behavior and characteristics, say, in a chart where a planet might be less fortunately placed, or needs specific approaches and conscious behaviors by the natal to better or fully integrate a planet in his/her personality, or develop the more positive traits of it, be it in a karmic/spiritual way, or just for his/her own personal growth and development.
Or, even if not badly or weakly placed or a malefic involved, even with an easy, beneficial conjunction planet-wise, I would guess that a planet who can never ever act and be recognized by the natal on its own (or at least not permanently attached like in a conjunction), could possibly still cause some trouble or be hindering in certain aspects of a natal's life, maybe just for the fact that in the aspects of life that the involved planet(s) is/are active and at work, it might be of more use sometimes and in certain circumstances to not always have the permanently fused energy of the two planets together at work, but maybe have the single energy of a planet, or at least not the permanently fused one like in a conjunction, at one's disposal. Even more so, if the other planet is weakly placed by sign, involves a planet that doesn't fit well with the other planet, or involves a malefic that influences the other planet in a less fortunate way.

What are other people's opinions or experiences on this?

Here is the explanation: (It is from astroroom.com)

Any two planets that are separated by around 8 degrees (as mentioned, the allowed orb varies) or less are considered to be in conjunction. The conjunction can with reason be entitled the most powerful aspect. True as it seems, for the individual trying to grasp how a certain strong conjunction manifests in their psyche, it may not be that obvious. This is because any two planets involved in a strong conjunction tend to lose much of their separate, identifiable modes of functioning. Therefore a conjunction can manifest as a "blind spot" that however intense, would make the areas represented by the two planets lack in perspective. The conjunction has a reputation for subjectivity.
The general effect of the conjunction is intensification. It always works in a magnifying, heightened respect; it adds a new dimension to the planets involved while at the same time hindering some of their natural expression. Ultimately, the conjunction has no essential nature of its own (next to the above mentioned), but is dictated entirely by the qualities of the planets. As with all aspects, it is usually assumed that the planet that is further away from the sun in the solar system is the primary influence upon the nearer one, and not the other way around. Now for an example: the conjunction of the Sun and Uranus is a sign of a certain personal originality and unpredictability (that however strong may express itself in a more "inner" fashion). Whatever characteristics this person possesses from the sign position of the Sun are heightened, yet moves in hard to anticipate ways. There is a certain electric, quirky charisma to the core being, an eccentricity of the typical "independent spirit" sort that is intent on going its own way. Taking pride in being unique. Whether this energy manifests "positively" or "negatively" is completely at the mercy of circumstance, arbitrary as these concepts are.
 
[deleted comment about needing to provide a personal opinion - note - quoting from other sites is fine, just make sure to list the source - Moderator]

Yes, I agree the conjunction is the most intense, espec if the planets are malefic and don't like each other. It's a bit like saying when is a sun sign not a true sun sign if it's conj Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto, cos these planets will 'overrshaddow' the light of the sun and become an honary Saturnian, Neptunian etc etc. Then of course we have to look at what house this conj is, and any other aspects to both these planets...
 
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gimzo23

Well-known member
[deleted comment on need for personal opinion comment - Moderator]

Yes, I agree the conjunction is the most intense, espec if the planets are malefic and don't like each other. It's a bit like saying when is a sun sign not a true sun sign if it's conj Saturn, Uranus, Neptune or Pluto, cos these planets will 'overrshaddow' the light of the sun and become an honary Saturnian, Neptunian etc etc. Then of course we have to look at what house this conj is, and any other aspects to both these planets...

Thanks for your input.
 
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freedomlover

Well-known member
gimzo23,

I just see a conjunction as a blend of the two planets/objects involved - that they express themselves on the same wavelength - kind of like they're "married". :p Whether it is negatively or positively expressed depends on the individuals level of consciousness.

FL
 

gimzo23

Well-known member
freedomlover said:
gimzo23,

I just see a conjunction as a blend of the two planets/objects involved - that they express themselves on the same wavelength - kind of like they're "married". :p Whether it is negatively or positively expressed depends on the individuals level of consciousness.

FL

Nice seeing you freedomlover. Yeah well they're married for good. Not a chance for a divorce there and going solo for a while, no matter what. ;) Not even a free marriage it was, heh.
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
gimzo23 said:
Nice seeing you freedomlover. Yeah well they're married for good. Not a chance for a divorce there and going solo for a while, no matter what. ;) Not even a free marriage it was, heh.

Yeah - an arranged marriage before they were born, at that.:p Not like those nice little sextiles that decide to go along together.:D

Nice seeing you, too, gimzo:)
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I've personally always had difficulty interpreting my Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction in Aries for this reason; the energies seem to meld together so it's more difficult to determine the influence of each one individually. And if the conjunction forms an aspect to another conjunction, things get even more confusing!

Therefore a conjunction can manifest as a "blind spot" that however intense, would make the areas represented by the two planets lack in perspective. The conjunction has a reputation for subjectivity.

I imagine this is especially true if one of the planets in the conjunction is the Sun.

As with all aspects, it is usually assumed that the planet that is further away from the sun in the solar system is the primary influence upon the nearer one, and not the other way around.

I am curious if this still applies to two planets that are both relatively far away from the Sun--Saturn and Neptune, for example. I'm part of the generation with these planets conjunct in Capricorn, and I've always assumed that Saturn exerted its influence over Neptune because it's much more strongly placed by sign. Therefore, I wonder how the idea expressed above works with planetary dignities?

Arian Maverick
 
Arian you said,
I've personally always had difficulty interpreting my Sun-Venus-Mercury conjunction in Aries for this reason; the energies seem to meld together so it's more difficult to determine the influence of each one individually. And if the conjunction forms an aspect to another conjunction, things get even more confusing!


I have this same conjunction in taurus in 4th house, sun,venus,mercury and I consider myself a very laid back placid taurean with bags of patience But don't feel confused about these energies at all, if anything I feel comforted and reassured by them. I'm very home loving, family orientated, practical and that's where I shine..

Sun conj Venus is Cheerful ‑ Love of life. Very gently person inside whatever sun sign, but again you do have to look at other aspects. I have sun square uranus, opp Neptune but other than a little impatience occasionally don't find them too troublesome. Sun opp Neptune prob caused a little identity crisis in puberty/teenage years but everyone grows out of things..

Yours positively...
 
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Arian Maverick

Well-known member
This is good to hear, especially Neptune because aspects your Sun--and Neptune's known for inducing confusion, among other things.

What is the orb of the conjunction of each of these planets? Do you suppose that the tighter the orb, the more difficult it is for each planet to assert its energies individually? In my natal chart, all three planets are located within a degree of each other with Venus cazimi and Mercury combust. I agree with your assessment of Venus because it's probably the planet that's given me the least amount of trouble despite being in the sign of its detriment. Mercury is a different story entirely...

Arian Maverick
 

wilsontc

Staff member
conjunctions are challenging aspects, to gizmo

gizmo,

You said:
gimzo23 said:
I found the belowly (in bold) attached explanation and view point on the conjunctions quite interesting. It is stated that planets in a strong conjunction tend to lose much of their separate, individual modes of functioning, and, while it adds a new dimension to the planets involved, it also hinders some of their own natural expression, thus making the individual planet's traits harder to recognize and work with.

The best description I have seen of the conjunction is that it is ALWAYS a challenging aspect (i.e., it is NOT "easy" or "challenging" depending on the planets involved: instead it is always challenging). The conjunction is always challenging since it forces two planetary energies together and they have to "fight out" how they are going to work with each other. While some planets may "play nice" in the fight, they STILL "fight it out" between them in a challenging way.

About the challenge of conjunctions,

Tim
 
Arian Maverick said:
This is good to hear, especially Neptune because aspects your Sun--and Neptune's known for inducing confusion, among other things.

What is the orb of the conjunction of each of these planets? Do you suppose that the tighter the orb, the more difficult it is for each planet to assert its energies individually? In my natal chart, all three planets are located within a degree of each other with Venus cazimi and Mercury combust. I agree with your assessment of Venus because it's probably the planet that's given me the least amount of trouble despite being in the sign of its detriment. Mercury is a different story entirely...

Arian Maverick

Yes, the orb is stronger if closer, my sun is 8'30', venus 12'30',mercury 18'45" opposit Neptune 1' Scorpio =7'orb so perhaps why it's not too bad/noticeable.

I also have 28' Aries Moon opp 1'Scorpio Neptune and if really honest always felt confusion connect to mum cos she was hotelier and worked 24/7 and didn't have much time left for cuddles and to be mum and as a strong taurean needed those cuddles for security and that's the illusion and confusion of neptune felt more strongly than Sun, although my father was chartered engineer also self employed and worked long hours at least I did get some attention from him. Spiritually I am of the belief that we do chose our parents for the childhood conditions that will help mould us and help us to Learn our chosen Lessons in this lifetime
 

archergirl

Well-known member
If you are considering out-of-sign conjunctions, I have a 28' Aries Moon conjunct 2' Taurus Saturn (both opposite 0' Scorpio Jupiter). It's not difficult to separate the Moon and Saturn energies...they work very differently!

Saturn, in cautious, practical Taurus, puts a rein on my hot-tempered Moon, and in the past would often 'plug it up' completely. The times when Saturn wasn't working with/against my Moon, I was given to acts of rash emotionalism, impetuousness, and 'high temper', usually as a result of being plugged up and inhibited by Saturn. I didn't cry for years, but I sure could shout. And pick a fight. Having this conjunction sextile my natal 1st house Mars doesn't help!:p

Since I passed my first Saturn Return several years ago, I think the two planets work much more harmoniously than they did before then; I'm much mellower than I was, and less inclined to rash action or feeling, or its opposite, emotional repression. It's a pretty comfortable conjunction now; as comfortable as it can be, but it took a very difficult Saturn return and a long-term transiting Pluto trine (and Pluto-natal Sun conjunction!) to sort it out.

However, and similarly to Astrologer50's childhood, my mother was 'absent': working all the time, single mother, not very warm emotionally (courtesy of Saturn). My relationship with her is still very challenging, and always will be; but I've accepted this, and have chosen to make our relationship 'easier' by living 6,000 miles away. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, they say.

AG:)
 

Lissa

Well-known member
Both my parents have Sun-Moon conjunctions,though my dad's has something like a 9º orb;my dad has Sun/Moon in Aries,my mom has Sun/Moon in Virgo,tightly conjunct on the 5th.I was born with wide orbed,out of sign Sun-Moon conjunction of my 26ºPisces Sun and 5ºAries Moon.Out of all the children in the house(there are three of us here),I can say I am the one who is,and has always been,much deeply affected by my parent's fights and unstable relationship.

One thing I can atest is that conjunctions to the Sun,especially the Sun/Moon connection,tend to make on stubborn and single minded,even though there is also lots of will power and strenght involved.My parents have always been that way;I,on the other hand,may not always know what I want,but I am sure I won't let anyone decide for me;and I'd rather make an ill-considered choice and end up regreting it than not owing up to my actions.Independency and a strong need for personal freedom(and,in particular,freedom of choice)is always present when the Sun and Moon connect by conjunction.
 
archergirl said:
If you are considering out-of-sign conjunctions, I have a 28' Aries Moon conjunct 2' Taurus Saturn (both opposite 0' Scorpio Jupiter). It's not difficult to separate the Moon and Saturn energies...they work very differently!

Saturn, in cautious, practical Taurus, puts a rein on my hot-tempered Moon, and in the past would often 'plug it up' completely. The times when Saturn wasn't working with/against my Moon, I was given to acts of rash emotionalism, impetuousness, and 'high temper', usually as a result of being plugged up and inhibited by Saturn. I didn't cry for years, but I sure could shout. And pick a fight. Having this conjunction sextile my natal 1st house Mars doesn't help!:p

Since I passed my first Saturn Return several years ago, I think the two planets work much more harmoniously than they did before then; I'm much mellower than I was, and less inclined to rash action or feeling, or its opposite, emotional repression. It's a pretty comfortable conjunction now; as comfortable as it can be, but it took a very difficult Saturn return and a long-term transiting Pluto trine (and Pluto-natal Sun conjunction!) to sort it out.

However, and similarly to Astrologer50's childhood, my mother was 'absent': working all the time, single mother, not very warm emotionally (courtesy of Saturn). My relationship with her is still very challenging, and always will be; but I've accepted this, and have chosen to make our relationship 'easier' by living 6,000 miles away. Distance makes the heart grow fonder, they say.

AG:)

No, I was answering Arian regarding opposition from sun to Neptune then added I also have moon opp neptune. Plus I also have Moon square uranus which broke the relationship very young, plus our sun signs were exactly quincunxed so I suppose we weren't meant to have a close loving bond, cos we never really understood what made each other tick anyway....
Since my father passed away 1997 (he was the bridge in family) we have very little contact, sad really as we both tried
 
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Lissa said:
Both my parents have Sun-Moon conjunctions,though my dad's has something like a 9º orb;my dad has Sun/Moon in Aries,my mom has Sun/Moon in Virgo,tightly conjunct on the 5th.I was born with wide orbed,out of sign Sun-Moon conjunction of my 26ºPisces Sun and 5ºAries Moon.Out of all the children in the house(there are three of us here),I can say I am the one who is,and has always been,much deeply affected by my parent's fights and unstable relationship.

One thing I can atest is that conjunctions to the Sun,especially the Sun/Moon connection,tend to make on stubborn and single minded,even though there is also lots of will power and strenght involved.My parents have always been that way;I,on the other hand,may not always know what I want,but I am sure I won't let anyone decide for me;and I'd rather make an ill-considered choice and end up regreting it than not owing up to my actions.Independency and a strong need for personal freedom(and,in particular,freedom of choice)is always present when the Sun and Moon connect by conjunction.

Think it's slightly different with out of sign conjunctions. I have Aries moon and taurus sun which are just out of acceptable orb and my parents argued a lot. There has to be different temperaments at play with out of sign conj, cos normally in same sign the sun/moon should be 'signing off the same hymn sheet'. I suspect it's prob other aspects in their synastry that made them behave the way the did.

It's strange we all seem to do the opposite from our upbringing and how our parents raised us. I didn't get much affection,but gave my 2sons lots and lots of cuddles and affection. We didn't have much money being a single parents, but they sure got love.....

Incidentally Aries and Virgo are quincunxed signs, so without even looking at the synastry the answer seems obvious...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13741
 
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Lissa

Well-known member
Thank you Astrologer,I found that article very enlightning!If it wasn't for their angles being tightly conjunct,my parents would have never been together in the first place.They are very playful and great friends when they are OK but when they're not OK,all hell breaks loose.But this is off-topic so sorry.
 

katydid

Well-known member
Re: conjunctions are challenging aspects, to gizmo

wilsontc said:
gizmo,

You said:


The best description I have seen of the conjunction is that it is ALWAYS a challenging aspect (i.e., it is NOT "easy" or "challenging" depending on the planets involved: instead it is always challenging). The conjunction is always challenging since it forces two planetary energies together and they have to "fight out" how they are going to work with each other. While some planets may "play nice" in the fight, they STILL "fight it out" between them in a challenging way.

About the challenge of conjunctions,

Tim


I LOVE that description. LOVE IT. It makes me want to go back and look at all the major conjunctions in my files and re-evaluate them. :p Seriously.

There are so many stelliums now, and i find it very difficult to sort some of them out for all the excited new parents. :rolleyes:

Anyway, thank you Tim for your always enlightening comments and descriptions,

'just saying'

kate
 

archergirl

Well-known member
No, I was answering Arian regarding opposition from sun to Neptune then added I also have moon opp neptune.

I wasn't suggesting we had the same aspects since it's obvious we don't (apart from a 28' Aries moon, that is). I was suggesting that something in both of our charts resulted in mothers who worked too hard and therefore had no time for love and affection. Pardon me if I didn't make that clear.

AG;)
 
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