Rushman's Natal Promise

I am currently reading Rushman's book "The Art of Predictive Astrology" & I was hoping for clarification on some points that are of concern to me. I want to understand & apply it properly.


Theory:

Applying aspects for Sun in natal chart = Natal Promise for woman
Applying aspects for Moon in natal chart = Natal Promise for Men
Mercury w/Sun aspect doesn't count

Questions:

• Only applying aspects with Sun/Moon count? Or do seperating aspect count as well?
• Does Sun square Midheaven count as an aspect for the natal promise? What is the rule regarding Midheaven if there is any. Or thoughts regarding it at least. I've got: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
• Sun aspecting Mercury does NOT promise marriage just a close/initmate relationship. She stated that this is because Mercury is faster than the Sun, fleeting, and that's what her experience holds. Makes sense. But does same rule/logic apply for Moon aspects with Mercury in a male's natal chart?
• Has anyone compared aspects in your chart for a relationship between the partner involved? Any correlation? If i'm correct in deducing the proper relationship markers in time and aspect an example of this would be that in my chart relationship with "Saturn Man" relationship is Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67) vs. in his chart I would be identified as: Moon (Can) Tri (Sco) Uranus - orb: +3:19' - power: 6.15)
• Are the aspects for natal promise in order? Larger orbs first or more power last? That's one of the ways I deduced which relationship I may be amongst the other aspects.

I was told that I would have three main relationships. 1 with a Mar's man, the second with a Saturn guy, and lastly marry a man with Pluto aspects. When I saw my natal chart's transits, low and behold I had three aspects with the Sun. My last Sun aspect however is with Midhaven so I'm sort of concerned about that. Someone opined that my Uranus aspect may substitute but that doesn't flow with the theory right? So am I always a bridesmaid never a bride? =)

My aspects are as follows:

1: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -3:04' - power: 11.10
2: Moon (Cap) Tri (Vir) Midheaven - orb: -0:43' - power: 10.93
3: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +0:20' - power: 9.52
4: Uranus (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +2:49' - power: 8.96
5: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - orb: +3:09' - power: 8.25
6: Mars (Vir) Squ (Sag) Neptune - orb: +2:03' - power: 5.66
7: Venus (Cap) Tri (Vir) Mars - orb: +1:00' - power: 5.14
8: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67
9: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Pluto - orb: -2:59' - power: 4.59
10: Neptune (Sag) Sex (Lib) Pluto - orb: -1:56' - power: 4.07
11: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - orb: +6:28' - power: 3.83
12: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Saturn - orb: +3:52' - power: 3.58
13: Jupiter (Sco) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +4:36' - power: 3.43
14: Pluto (Lib) Squ [Can] Node - orb: +0:59' - power: 3.05
15: Saturn (Lib) Sex (Sag) Neptune - orb: +4:55' - power: 1.08
16: Saturn (Lib) Con (Lib) Pluto - orb: +6:51' - power: 0.21

In her theory:
-Separating aspects do not count
-sun square MC or midheaven does not count
-she does not address the mercury to moon

Please note that she does a lot of writing before the section on natal promise and mentions that this particular method, learned in her youth, was not 100%.

gemini59 said:

In her theory:
-Separating aspects do not count
-sun square MC or midheaven does not count
-she does not address the mercury to moon

Please note that she does a lot of writing before the section on natal promise and mentions that this particular method, learned in her youth, was not 100%.

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Thanks Gemini59 for those answers!

Well then, I'm either going to be an old maid or let's hope some important people didn't get sun aspects, lol. My sister on the other hand who is either very secretive or being dishonest about her relationship potential has 5 sun aspects and she has yet to have a serious boyfriend. She's 25 by the way, so maybe she is truly a late bloomer.

What makes a Mar's man, a Saturn guy, & a Pluto influenced person? And what was her basis. I just came across Rushman's theory & thought they were the same. Guess not. If anyone has insight on anything let me know! My chart's w/transits & progressions is attached.

Mars guys might be athletic, military, aggressive, redhaired, scars or wounds on their face, etc. Saturn guys will be older than you by a stretch, greying, you look to them for wisdom, fatherly...Pluto is connected to scorpio..powerful, secretive, controlling, explosive, sexual..intense eyes...those are my thoughts.

I have Sun in H6

Conjunct Merc
Sextile Uranus
Sextile Saturn

I would have as sun moves through the sign.

Sun conjunct Mars
Sun sq Neptune
Sun trine Jupiter..

I have been married once... including the marriage. Ive had 3 long term relationships..

Lion o ness said:

I have Sun in H6

Conjunct Merc
Sextile Uranus
Sextile Saturn

I would have as sun moves through the sign.

Sun conjunct Mars
Sun sq Neptune
Sun trine Jupiter..

I have been married once... including the marriage. Ive had 3 long term relationships..

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Before I would say you have 5 chances at marriage & conjunct mercury would be a close/longterm type of relationship with no marital promise because it can't count but I would need to the applying or seperating factors.

Ill never get married again... LOL
No way no how... Maybe live together..

So what I will live with 2 more men? O LORDY!!

My chart is on my profile, heres the direct link

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/album.php?albumid=577&pictureid=2959

Okay...so under this Rushman thing Mars would count cuz its going to conjunct it as it moves through...and Jupiter counts cuz it will trine as it moves through ....and she makes notes about moon to sun also as moon is applying to the sun...look at the book again...I would read as much of it as I can cause it adds together...

Mercury is retrograde so it is moving away from the sun and she does not include it.

For the sun will not square Neptune . .I think you mean the sun is applying to a sextile to Uranus. And it is in applying sextile to Saturn...whoa girl.

So we have Mars, Uranus, and saturn, jupiter and the moon. Jupiter is the strongest with a trine but a moon sun point is very strong.

Clearly you would want to look for triggers to this sun moon stellium for indicators of timers.

Since mercury rules your 7th and moon your 5th and your sun/moon midpoint is quite obvious and the sun is very strong in its own sign this might be your hot spot on the chart.
Look at transits around the time you met then married your mate..What was being transited?

Oo thanks for that

I dont know the date I met my ex husband... I didnt like him for a lonnng time.. Couldnt stand him... LOL He chased me for months..

But I looked at my transits when I got married..


T. NN conjunct my SN
T.Sun,Mars.Venus conjunct my venus
TUranus/Juno/Moon opps my Leo Stellium
T.Saturn/Jupiter sq my Mars
T. Krama (asteriod) conjunt my Leo stellium (LOL)
T. Pluto/Chiron trined Leo Stellium

Nothing in my H7... lol


So according to the book I will have 5 long term relationships??

Im getting way to old for this ****.. LOL

No that is not what I meant. Please read her book. She says that everyone has a place in their chart that when triggered these main events happen in their lives like marriage. As your stellium (regardless of house) seems to be triggered with Uranus and Pluto this might be it.
YOu should read what you can of the rest of her book, really. there is a lot more than the natal promise and a lot more clues you need. You look at the 7th house ruler, the nodes, the fifth house ruler etc., the sun/moon midpoint. In your case they are all in the same area. It just happens to be in the fifth house. Mine is in the fifth house too...

Hope that helps.

la dona said:

I am currently reading Rushman's book "The Art of Predictive Astrology" & I was hoping for clarification on some points that are of concern to me. I want to understand & apply it properly.

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He's quoting Ptolemy.

la dona said:

Mercury w/Sun aspect doesn't count

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Mercury does count. As you know (or should know) the only aspect Mercury can make with Sun is a conjunction.

Mercury applying to a conjunction of the Sun does count, but only if Mercury is not Combust. Mercury (or any Planet) is Combust if it is within 7°30' of the Sun (applying or separating).

The Sun's orb is 15° so if Mercury is applying to Sun and within 15° but not yet at 7°30' then Mercury counts.

The one other exception is if Mercury is Cazimi, meaning Mercury is conjunct the Sun with an orb of 17' (Minutes) of arc applying or separating.

la dona said:

Only applying aspects with Sun/Moon count?

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Yes. Planetary Order:

Moon
Mercury
Venus
Sun
Mars
Jupiter
Saturn

As you can see, Moon can make an applying aspect to any Planet, but Saturn can never make an applying aspect to a Planet unless he happens to be Retrograde.

The only applying aspect Jupiter can make is to Saturn, unless Jupiter happens to be Retrograde.

The Sun makes applying aspects to Mars, Jupiter and Saturn, and those would count, and then Moon, Mercury and Venus make applying aspects to Sun, and those would count.

la dona said:

Or do seperating aspect count as well?

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Not when delineating this particular Topic. When delineating other Topics, it is possible that separating aspects might count.

la dona said:

Does Sun square Midheaven count as an aspect for the natal promise?

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The Ascendant, Midheaven etc are Chart Points, not Planets. Chart Points do not emit light or rays. They are simply empty points in space and there is nothing physically there (and that's why they don't count).

There are Topics that do use aspects to the Midheaven, Ascendant and other Chart Points, but not this one.

la dona said:

What is the rule regarding Midheaven if there is any.

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Same as any other Chart Point. Orb is 2°30' for a Planet in aspect to a Chart Point like the Midheaven. There are of course exceptions for certain Topics, but the Midheaven isn't used for Marriage.

la dona said:

Sun aspecting Mercury does NOT promise marriage just a close/initmate relationship.

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That wouldn't be true at all. I would say that may be a possibility if Sun and Moon were both in Masculine Signs in the Chart of a woman and the only Planet in an applying aspect with Sun was Mercury, even more so if Moon was severely debilitated, like being in Capricorn or Scorpio and within 12° of one of the Nodes or being in opposition to Sun.

la dona said:

She stated that this is because Mercury is faster than the Sun, fleeting, and that's what her experience holds.

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Mercury applying to Sun (and not Combust) would indicate a partner who is very business-like, perhaps abrupt and not necessarily a very romantic person but still a good person and a good spouse (unless Mercury was also impeded).

In any event, Mercury is Combust in your Chart so you can ignore it, well, him actually since he is Oriental.

la dona said:

Makes sense. But does same rule/logic apply for Moon aspects with Mercury in a male's natal chart?

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No.

la dona said:

Has anyone compared aspects in your chart for a relationship between the partner involved? Any correlation? If i'm correct in deducing the proper relationship markers in time and aspect an example of this would be that in my chart relationship with "Saturn Man" relationship is Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - orb: +6:08' - power: 4.67) vs. in his chart I would be identified as: Moon (Can) Tri (Sco) Uranus - orb: +3:19' - power: 6.15)

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I have no idea what "power orbs" are. Sounds gimmicky to me.

la dona said:

Are the aspects for natal promise in order?
Larger orbs first or more power last?

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Nope.

la dona said:

That's one of the ways I deduced which relationship I may be amongst the other aspects. I was told that I would have three main relationships. 1 with a Mar's man, the second with a Saturn guy, and lastly marry a man with Pluto aspects.

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I don't do Pluto. The bottom line is your Sun is Sagittarius and applying to Mars and Saturn (and Mars is in Virgo). That is very strong testimony of more than one marriage.

Sun in 1st House puts the Sun in an Occidental Quarter and that typically indicates either marriage later in life or marriage to someone older than you. Venus is the general Significator of Marriage and she is also in an Occidental Quarter and that also indicates either marriage later in life or to someone older.

Your Venus is conjunct the South Node. Did you know that? That weakens Venus and would be another indicator of marriage later in life.

Your Venus is also square Saturn, but that doesn't concern me too much because there is Mutual Reception: Venus receives Saturn by Sign and Saturn receives Venus by Sign. However, that would indicate that one of your husbands will be incredibly dull and boring. No wonder you'd get divorced

Thank you so much Bob! What an intricately detailed and informed reply. Truly appreciate it but now I have more questions, lol. I've got 4 natal promises! Phew, thought I was going to be an old maid, and that would of really, really, sucked!


1: Neptune (Sag) Sex (Lib) Pluto - app 1:56' - power: 57.19 (Future hubby where are you?)
2: Pluto (Lib) Squ [Can] Node - sep 0:59' - power: 38.12
3: Jupiter (Sco) Con (Lib) Pluto - sep 4:36' - power: 32.14
4: Mars (Vir) Squ (Sag) Neptune - app 2:03' - power: 31.82 (Most Recent Ex)
5: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - sep 0:20' - power: 19.05
6: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Pluto - app 2:59' - power: 12.91
7: Saturn (Lib) Sex (Sag) Neptune - app 4:55' - power: 10.66 (College BF: 9 yrs older than me @ time)
8: Venus (Cap) Squ (Lib) Saturn - sep 3:52' - power: 7.05
9: Venus (Cap) Tri (Vir) Mars - sep 1:00' - power: 5.79
10: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Uranus - sep 6:28' - power: 4.79
11: Saturn (Lib) Con (Lib) Pluto - app 6:51' - power: 2.34
12: Uranus (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - app 2:49' - power: 1.49
13: Sun (Sag) Con (Sag) Mercury - app 6:08' - power: 1.17 : HS Sweetheart
14: Sun (Sag) Squ (Vir) Midheaven - sep 3:04' - power: 0.31
15: Mercury (Sag) Con (Sco) Ascendant - app 3:09' - power: 0.28
16: Moon (Cap) Tri (Vir) Midheaven - sep 0:43' - power: 0.14

All of those are applying & connected to the Sun! God bless!


On another note, while researching William Lilly I realized that my 9*Cap Moon was even more unfortunate than previously thought because it's between 0*-12* Capricorn. According to him, if Cap Moon falls below 12* it leads future spouse to widowhood, dissolution of union before actual marriage or marital discord if it actually happens. However, adding to this natal Moon drama of mine, is the fact that my Moon makes NO aspects before it leaves the sign any benefit here? It is pretty much void of course right? But Lilly didn't believe in VOC Moon's unless it was placed in mutuable houses. Capricorn isn't mutable, so rule still applies? Any opinion on this rule?

Also, in Lily's theory of how many husband's a woman would have he stated that one must start calculations from the start of the 10th house cusp to the placement of Mars. All planets in between count as husbands. My Mars is at 21* Virgo in the tenth house. I have no planets within those 21* degrees from the cusp of the tenth. No planets = no husbands? Or am I not applying his theory properly, which may be the case, as usual. Lastly, if you could enlighten me on how Mars in Virgo contributes to multiple marriages I would appreciate it. Is it just that it's a mutable feminine sign like Sag where my Sun is located? Little bit confused over all of this. Thanks again for your time.

I also followed Lilly's marriage calculations for a woman & I think 32 is the marrying age that is possible because that's the distance from my Sun -Venus. All the other calculations added up to pretty high numbers, unless those are all my subsequent marriages, lol.

gemini59 said:

For the sun will not square Neptune . .I think you mean the sun is applying to a sextile to Uranus. And it is in applying sextile to Saturn...whoa girl.

So we have Mars, Uranus, and saturn, jupiter and the moon. Jupiter is the strongest with a trine but a moon sun point is very strong.

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Can you explain this part... If its not a bother

Im not sure about my calculations.. I got married at 27... 17 days before my 28th birthday... So not sure if you want to count it as 27 or 28..

I read somewhere that for women conjunctions from Sun to another planet is a definite marriage, while other aspects could be potential to marriage but more likely longterm relationships. I don't know where exactly I read this, but makes sense, because conjucntion is literally union of two planets, lol.

For me this rule may come true.

My Sun in Capricorn trines Saturn in 7th house in Virgo - Yep I had a 9 year relationship with a Saturn guy, he was a leo but with many Virgo placements, don't know his ASC though. He was 12 years older than me and had grey/white hair, very calm and detailed. Slow. Boring. But caring and good friend.

Next aspect Sun conjunct Mars in Capricorn - well this could be the marriage, the guy I'm interested in is athlectic, body builder, and businessman (Capricorn). Time will tell what happens!

I also have aspects from Sun to Uranus and Pluto - I don't know if more relationships will come, these planets are outer planets and I tend to not look at them too much.

Quote:
Originally Posted by gemini59

For the sun will not square Neptune . .I think you mean the sun is applying to a sextile to Uranus. And it is in applying sextile to Saturn...whoa girl.

So we have Mars, Uranus, and saturn, jupiter and the moon. Jupiter is the strongest with a trine but a moon sun point is very strong.
Can you explain this part... If its not a bother
__________________

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Well, let see.
First your sun is at 16 degrees of Leo and Neptune is at 2 degrees Sagitarius. The sun moving forward (as it always does) will not form an exact aspect or perfected aspect (exact) unless it changes signs.

My bad..your sun is in applying aspect to Saturn but not to Uranus. It is separating from Uranus...sorry.

But the moon is applying to your sun.

I said jupiter was the strongest aspect cause Ms Rushman says trines are stronger then sextiles...that is what she said..I am simply reflecting her statements. Read her book. I read it there.!!!

When looking at a woman’s chart the type of man she would look for is her sun sign and mars traits, plus 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.
When looking at a mans chart for the type of woman he would look for is his venus and moon sign and then 7th house planets and house cusp ruler and where that ruler was deposited.

Although synastry is a valuable tool with astrology it cannot 'make things happen' even if you have the best synastry in the world unfortunately.

In synastry I use tight orbs and view aspects between one person's outer planets to the other person's inner planets as being "karmic connections"......usually with the outer planet person doing the teaching and the inner planet person doing the learning.

If you want to research more into synastry try here
http://cafeastrology.com/astrology_of_relationships.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry/interchartaspects.html
http://www.cafeastrology.com/synastry_house_overlays.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastry-houses.html
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/synastryaspects.html
http://www.cosmitec-astrological-compatibility-advice.com/astrology-marriage.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17513
http://www.astrotheme.com/synastry_advice.php
http://www.astrology-x-files.com/synastry/ascendant.html


relationship sticky
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28945
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=254409&postcount=9


Unfortunately, there is no set formula or signature for marriage or childbirth, although others may disagree, apparently horary and vedic seem confident in this area. There are indicators and potential as there would be with natal, solar return chart but guarantees -- (post 2 & 3 below)
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=207744#post207744

I have heard that mutable on the Angles can show multiply marriages to. Taurus/venus rules Desc and is square to saturn. Saturn is also square moon showing reserved emotional nature.

I don't feel you are a typical Saggi either with sun conj uranus, to me this makes you an honorary Aquarius/Uranus.

You are also having a Saturn return
Saturn Return
Saturn takes 30 years or so to complete its circuit around the zodiac so events that occur around the age of 29-30, 58-59 and 84-87 will be of great significance to the native, depending on the strength and aspects to natal saturn.
http://www.newage-directory.com/saturn.html
http://www.astrologycom.com/saturn.html
http://www.saturnreturn.net/what_is.html
http://www.examiner.com/x-2766-Atlan...-Saturn-return
http://www.lynnkoiner.com/astrology-articles/dysfunctional-saturn

I also notice your prog sun is approaching conj with natal moon, so a new 28years cycle starts. Also T Pluto is approaching natal moon and this should bring something intense and hopefully passionate for you to loosen up the emotions....

chart ruler pluto is conj 12th house cusp (Equal house ) and with pluto their to.
planets in houses
http://www.horoscopeswithin.com/planetsinhouses.php
Houses/signs are like the backdrop of a stage/theatre, planets in houses behave like actors on a stage, the *aspects* show how these planets/actor behave in a house

Planets conjunct a house cusp
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=202304&postcount=7
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=205033#post205033
Planets conj House cusp
“Ascendant at 15’ Libra and Jupiter 13’ Libra. That would place Jupiter in the 12th house, right? But many thoughtful astrologers would read this as Jupiter being conjunction with Ascendant, and end up reading it as bringing its action to bear in the first house, rather than in the 12th.
This same idea would apply for each and every house cusp. If the planet is IN THE SAME SIGN as the sign on the next house cusp, and close enough to be CONJUNCT WITH that next house cusp, the action of the planet will be directed into oncoming house”
http://www.astrology-numerology.com/inhouses.html

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=14887

http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showpost.php?p=125412&postcount=4

Ptolemy says the influence of the house begins to be felt 5° before the actual cusp.
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html

“Astrologers have seen a body influencing the house it is about to enter, time and time again. All theorizing aside, the planet casting its shadow ahead works. I can speak from personal experience, as well as reading ancient texts. If you discover this as true, then the next question may be, "Just how close must a body be to a cusp before it begins to be felt in the neighboring house?"
I've seen some authors say 3 degrees. I've seen some that give 5 degrees. I have seen some that even give 8 degrees. And there may be other variations.” http://astronuts.tribe.net/thread/90c9f417-5086-4ff0-b31f-c904fe99baca

Although I've been hearing about this method for long and have seen in worked in several cases, I have to say I doubt it can be 100% accurate - recently a girl friend of mine got married whose Sun is VOC until it leaves a sign, unles we count semi-sextile aspect. Also, can a Moon applying to Sun in female horoscope be counted as aspect to signify marriage? cause in this case that might just be the answer to her marriage

hermetic said:

Although I've been hearing about this method for long and have seen in worked in several cases, I have to say I doubt it can be 100% accurate - recently a girl friend of mine got married whose Sun is VOC until it leaves a sign, unles we count semi-sextile aspect. Also, can a Moon applying to Sun in female horoscope be counted as aspect to signify marriage? cause in this case that might just be the answer to her marriage

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I quite agree with you, I think people have too high expectations of what astrology can and cannot do

hermetic said:

Although I've been hearing about this method for long and have seen in worked in several cases, I have to say I doubt it can be 100% accurate - recently a girl friend of mine got married whose Sun is VOC until it leaves a sign, unles we count semi-sextile aspect. Also, can a Moon applying to Sun in female horoscope be counted as aspect to signify marriage? cause in this case that might just be the answer to her marriage

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Rushman said that she only counts the major applying natal aspects (conjunction, square, opposition, trine, and sextile). She is silent on whether semi-sextile counts. I'm assuming by her explicit defition, the semi-square, semi-sextiles, etc don't count.

She said that the Moon CAN apply to the Sun, and she has seen this aspect indicate a potential marriage.