Okay, so the Sibly Chart, by two experienced astrologers is considered invalid. Then we must see if we can astrologically find/create the real chart. I disagree with Bob that the Sibly Chart was created for propaganda purposes. The Founders believed sincerely that the reason for their plight and their suffering was the oppressive nature of the British Empire, hence they believed in Anarchy(or perhaps given our modern times it's better to say self-governance). However, the 13 colonies could not get together and trust one another. The country's military was still vastly un-developed. You can very well say it wasn't even a country.
Hence, you can say that the Declaration of Independence is no different from a modern day declaration of war. The real birth of the United States came at the ratification of the U.S. Constitution, when for the first time people were officially united under a flag and a banner.
Bob, allow me to give you a different debate for my chart. Of all the outer planets, Pluto is the slowest. Hence, we shouldn't put too much if any value on Pluto. Besides, Scorpio's modern ruler is Mars. Hence, if anything you should be looking at Mars.
In addition, what is the ASC? The Ascendant is our outer appearance, it is how we appear to others. As we've brought territory from Napoleon, fought the Mexican and Civil Wars(we claimed Mexico and then we took back the Federalist States). Isn't that the behavior of a Scorpio? Our gradual ascent to power and our unwillingness to let go.
Religious freedom? Pisces was the birth sign of Jesus Christ, no? In it, we have Saturn. It is also our IC, we hold it dearly to our hearts and we won't let go(Saturn=pull/gravity). Saturn himself is recieving numerous trines from Mercury(Cancer) and Jupiter-Uranus(In Leo). He's also recieving a sextile from Mars(Taurus) Saturn has the strength to clearly hold onto the philosophies to which we hold dear.
Then we have the Grand Air Trine of Pluto, Neptune, Moon.
Air rules over Communication, tales of a foreign nation that speaks of religious freedom and freedom of speech is heard around the world. This nation later on liberates the people. They are happy! Here, is astrological proof of America's foreign success.
The success won't and didn't last, primarily because Pluto and Neptune were retrograde. Neptune squaring Mercury(communication) and Pluto squaring Mars(war).
The ideals which we speak of, did we truly honestly apply them? Perhaps once upon a time, but then came in politics, then corrison, then the America of today. This chart symbolizes our past and our present.
In addition, while we once fought to liberate them, are we fighting for that same purpose now? Much news is made about Afghanistan's Opium. Similarly, Libya is one of the richest crude oil countries in all of Africa.
Saturn is squaring the sun, was there a political movement against religious freedom inside America/the 13 colonies? That's one way(and about the only one at the moment I can think of) intrepreting the chart.
The other one is Saturn-Mars-Neptune are inconjunct, with Neptune as the pinnacle.
If we truly desire peace, and if it's worth fighting for, we need to be clear in that regard. Once we show our true intentions to the world, things will become much easier for Americans. I'd also like to point out how we'd have a Virgo Midheaven with this chart.
Picky, perfectionist, isn't that basically our foreign policy? If it's not good to our standards, we'll change it. Virgo is usually mutable, but the mutable energy is overuled by our fixed energy(6 planets)/Cardinal Energy(4 planets) and Mutable(3 planets).
I was born and raised in this country, and I feel like this fits us alot better. The whole "we stand for justice" thing is lying to ourselves. If we can help others, then that's great. But we always have been a very ambitious country.
