Which house for Martial Art student ?

[Minami]

Hello !

When I ask whether I can become a student of my respected Martial art Master, which house should I use ?

Is it a 9th house matter ?

Hope someone can advise, thanks !


Cheers,

Minami

[Mr stellium]

Look to your Mars sign/house/aspects. For martial arts, Mars is preferably in an earth sign (disciplined/methodical fighting), or perhaps aspecting Saturn. I have a friend with Mars/Pisces/square Saturn/sextile Jupiter who does Judo (dont know in what house).
A "martial arts master" as you put it sounds like a 10th house matter also. Maybe having Mars in 10th or ruling MC?

[Konrad]

Yeah, it's a 9th house matter as this house represents higher knowledge and teachers.

[aquarius7000]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Minami

When I ask whether I can become a student of my respected Martial art Master, which house should I use ?

Well, teachers of higher education get the 9th house. However, I am wondering, if we were to perceive your "Martial art Master" (guru) as a person with some authority over you (not that uni profs don't have authority), maybe the 10th house could also be looked at. The sport itself would be a 5th house matter. You, as the querent, would, of course, get the 1st house.

AQ7

[Konrad]

But doesn't the traditional use of the 10th house involve kings or people of royal standing? I would say that the 9th house more aplty fits the description of a Martial arts teacher than the 10th. I always find that looking too deeply into the decision of which house to use confuses the interpretation.

For me, a teacher is a 9th house matter regardless of the subject they teach and how that subject makes you feel.

[aquarius7000]

Traditional Astrology also uses the 10th for people with authority over you (even if they are not kings). I would use the 10th, if I were to do the reading.

AQ7

[Konrad]

Yeah, I understand that they don't have to be kings but I would have thought the flow of knowledge would have made it a 9th house matter.

I had a chat with a guy who has done John Frawley's course and he says the golden rule is to keep it simple. I would think that seeing someone who teaches you as ruler of the 9th is as simple as it gets, bearing in mind that this teacher might not have any authority over you. In Horary we're dealing with general views of people, not nuances of their personalities. i.e. a spouse will be ruler of the 7th regardless of any authority they are percieved to have over the querent.

Using your method, couldn't we also use the ruler of the 6th house as presumably the querent is going to pay to use this teacher's services?

However, you are entitled to use whichever house you wish, so use the 10th if you really feel it's the right way to tackle it.

[Minami]

Hi Konrad , AQ7,

Thanks for your comments upon this.
For the querent, this Martial art Master is very honour to him.
I also think that it should take 10H, but to make it simple, it should be 9H....diffcult to decide which house should be used...
But it is too early for me to read the chart as it is early Asc..
So maybe later, we will erect a chart again and see what happen.

Cheers/Minami

[Konrad]

Yeah that's fine but an early ascendant has no affect on the chart. Astrologers used this as a reason not to judge because they had to find the ascendant manually. As we know, if you get the ascendant sign incorrect then the chart interpretation will surely be wrong. In 2009, we now have computers to work out our charts exactly to the degree and minute, so an early or late sign has no bearing on the reading of the chart.

With regards to the teacher, use the 10th if you wish but a teacher is 9th house whether the querent thinks he is God incarnate or Elton John.

[aquarius7000]

Hi,

Originally Posted by Konrad

..Using your method, couldn't we also use the ruler of the 6th house as presumably the querent is going to pay to use this teacher's services?

I take it that you were referrring to me when you said, "your method" there. Now I don't know who you would like to use the 6th house for: the querent-student or the quesited-teacher. I use it as a significator of employees, those who serve you, people under you, servants, etc.

Originally Posted by Minami

..For the querent, this Martial art Master is very honour to him. I also think that it should take 10H, but to make it simple, it should be 9H....diffcult to decide which house should be used...

Minami, I am with you that things should be kept simple. However, I am confused as to why there should be anything 'not simple' or complicated about the 10th house as compared to the 9th. The 10th is also just a house as the 9th, but signifies other things/people as opposed to the 9th. Let me repeat what I've already said above about it: the 10th for people with authority over you, command over you, the master, those superior to us, where honour or prestige are involved. The 9th, on the other hand, being the house of higher knowledge and expansion of the mind, would signify teachers at university - professors, etc. The 3rd and the 9th houses denote literary school (primary education) and university studies (higher education) respectively. However, Minami - a martial-arts teacher has nothing to do with higher education/literary or philosophical studies in the literal sense. He, as the guru/master, teaches his student an art - martial arts. Maybe this clarifies a bit better the difference between the houses in debate here.

Originally Posted by Konrad

Yeah that's fine but an early ascendant has no affect on the chart. Astrologers used this as a reason not to judge because they had to find the ascendant manually. As we know, if you get the ascendant sign incorrect then the chart interpretation will surely be wrong. In 2009, we now have computers to work out our charts exactly to the degree and minute, so an early or late sign has no bearing on the reading of the chart.

I do find this reasoning quite interesting, but here is a page listing the real reasons of astrologers (Frawley dances out of line there), who did not have computers to calculate their charts, for warning against an early ascendant. See, when these astrologers could put in effort to work on/calculate 24° out of 30° for a house by hand, the other 6° (3° for an early and 3° for a late Adc) should not have been an insurmoutable task.

Just some further thoughts,
AQ7

[Konrad]

Originally Posted by aquarius7000

Hi,


I take it that you were referrring to me when you said, "your method" there. Now I don't know who you would like to use the 6th house for: the querent-student or the quesited-teacher. I use it as a significator of employees, those who serve you, people under you, servants, etc.

Indeed I was referring to you. I wouldn't like to use the 6th house for anything in this instance. I was, however, illustrating that if I were to look at a teacher's authority or what it is he teaches to choose a house, then I could very well look at him like a plumber, or a post-man or anyone else who I pay for their services.

Again, I think that it matters not how you personally hold the person teaching you and what it is they teach. The 3rd is elementary knowledge. i.e Reading, writing. The 9th is higher knowledge, not specifically something you learn from a university or institution. It could be astrology, football tactics, painting, whatever, it's not really that important, it is the passing on of knowledge that is the defining point here. Now if this martial arts teacher was this guys feudal ruler then of course, the 10th would entirely appropriate but he's not, he's just a human who is going to teach another human an art (knowledge) that he doesn't know and is therefore the 9th.

Originally Posted by aquarius7000

I do find this reasoning quite interesting, but here is a page listing the real reasons of astrologers (Frawley dances out of line there), who did not have computers to calculate their charts, for warning against an early ascendant. See, when these astrologers could put in effort to work on/calculate 24° out of 30° for a house by hand, the other 6° (3° for an early and 3° for a late Adc) should not have been an insurmoutable task.

It is interesting to read the other astrologer's views on the subject but I am sure that it would be necessary to be able to see the sky fully to calculate the chart to the degree, quite a hard task alot of the time especially when one lives in the UK. It is usually very cloudy here!

Surely, if the chart is deemed to be cast too early or too late, then there will be other indications contained in the chart and we would not need to rely on such a dubious means to come to that conclusion?

[Olivia]

Early and late ascendants are not a dubious consideration - they're a big red flag - one of the few that make me hesitant to touch a chart. I usually ask for further information, and almost always get that the person went to a tarot reader (or five), and another astrologer (or five), or that there's some vital piece of information they've neglected to share that directly bears on the delineation of the horary.

People had tables of houses back in the day - Lilly even prints one in Christian Astrology, as well as noting that you can't use tables set, for say, London in Edinburgh, because they won't be accurate. Those guys knew their maths - better than we do. Open Schoener's On the Judgements of Nativities and prepare to be boggled.

I'm sure I'm also not the only person here who learnt hand-calculation of charts. I do use the computer to do them now, but astrological software is a recent invention.

[Konrad]

Yes, yes. Ok. So, you noticed a correlation between people asking the question before and an early ascendant. May I ask though, do you ask them if they have enquired before when the ascendant is at a "radical" degree such as 18 or 20? My point is if you look for something in only one place you are, unsuprisingly, going to find it only one place.

I say it's dubious as it is exactly that. There would be no discussion on it otherwise. Now in my experience, there is usually more than one testimony for an outcome contained in the chart, so why not look to the content of the chart rather than the ascendant degree?

I do understand why you're suggesting to use this method however it is counter-intuitive to me and that is why it doesn't sit easily. I do want to learn this study to the very fullest I can, so I am open to the theory but I am yet to read a compelling reason for this particular method.