Oh..grow up!{my ex-husband]

pisceskitty

Well-known member
My ex-husband has always said he felt like an outsider when it came to me, him and our son. I feel our son is more like me. When we all lived together, we felt more like siblings than husband/wife/child. Can anyone give me some clues?

Me:march 11th 1973 8:26 pm, New york,ny
Ex hubby:May 2nd 1966 3:20 am Wilmington, De.
Lil man:june 18th 1998 2:49 pm Forthood, tx
 
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Arian Maverick

Well-known member
EDIT: I have corrected the natal and synastry charts ;)

Pisceskitty's Natal Chart:



Ex-Husband's Natal Chart:



Son's Natal Chart:



Pisceskitty's and Ex-Husband's Synastry Chart:



Pisceskitty's and Son's Synastry Chart:



Ex-Husband's and Son's Synastry Chart:



Arian Maverick
 
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Arian Maverick

Well-known member
I suppose this is what happens when one attempts to upload several horary charts at once...I'll correct this as soon as I can! ;)

Arian Maverick
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
Here are some basic observations of the synastry chart between you and your husband:

  • Your natal Pluto is loosely conjunct his natal Moon
  • Your Ascendant is conjunct his eighth house cusp/your Descendant is conjunct his second house cusp
  • His natal Neptune is conjunct your second house cusp
  • Your second house cusp is conjunct his ninth house cusp
  • Your natal Jupiter is loosely conjunct his twelfth house cusp
  • Your natal Mercury is conjunct his natal Chiron within minutes!
  • Your natal Mercury is conjunct his natal Saturn and Venus
  • Your natal Chiron is loosely conjunct his natal Mercury
  • Your natal Saturn is conjunct his Nadir (fourth house cusp)
  • Your natal Moon is loosely conjunct his natal Jupiter

Here are some basic observations of the synastry chart between you and your son:

  • Your natal Neptune is conjunct his natal Pluto
  • Your North Node is conjunct his Nadir within minutes!
  • Your natal Mars is loosely conjunct his Nadir
  • Your natal Jupiter is conjunct his natal Neptune
  • Your natal Venus is loosely conjunct his sixth house cusp
  • Your natal Mercury is conjunct his natal Jupiter
  • Your natal Chiron is conjunct his natal Moon within minutes; these planets are also conjunct your son's Descendant!
  • Your natal Saturn is loosely conjunct his natal Mars
  • Your natal Moon is loosely conjunct his natal Mars and Sun

I fear that I am running late for an appointment, so I must continue this list later...

Arian Maveirck
 

Lunar Pisces

Well-known member
Well, for starters your ex has a strong Venusian-Neptunian theme in his chart:

The Venusian Theme:

- both luminaries in venusian signs
- both luminaries in respective house for those venusian signs (Tau Sun in 2H, Libra moon in 7tH)
- Venus in exaltation
- 1H stellium that includes Venus
- Libra rules 8H (psychology, sexuality)
- Taurus rules 3H (communication, thinking style)

The Neptunian Theme:

- Pisces rising
- 1H stellium in Pisces
- Venus in Pisces (exalted)
- Chiron in Pisces (think of Chiron as a "higher moon")
- Neptune trining 1H stellium
- Neptune conjunct SS (what he is intuitively drawn to, what seems familiar to him, old habits, past lives)

Why I point this out is your thread title says "Oh go up!" I'm not sure what you relationship was like with your ex beyond what you said, but any man with such strong Venus AND Neptune traits are going to not your typical male. Such a person will be deeply sensitive, intuitive, and have a very rich emotional life. He'll also have some very deep emotional needs, espeically for intimacy. He will yearn for a "soul mate" with whom communication is effortless, sincere and intuitive. He could be clingy and insecure emotionally, if those needs are unmet, which is likely since his general personality is in conflict with cultural standards for men.

Neptune, when prominant, usually indicates a sense of alienation, of not fitting in. Strongly Neptunian people can often feel that they don't belong anywhere, and feel deeply lonely in a metaphysical, psychic and spiritual way. Simply being around people isn't enough - they need to feel a connection, an unification with others on a spiritual level. For a man in our culture, expressing this sense of loneliness can be very hard to do. Instead they may express their frustrations in other, more self-destructive ways. Hence why Pisces and Neptune is so strongly associate with substance abuse and mental illness.

Men with either strong Venusian or Neptunian themes often are percieves as infantile, needy or immature. This may or may not be true. In some cases, the individual has grown into someone very immature and often self-destructive. In other cases, the individual is genuinely misundertood. With both themes present, your ex is likely to have an enduring child-like quality about him, for better or worse, and this will never change. He may seem naive and vulnerable, unable to take initiative or be a leader. He may likely be very dependant upon others emotionally and need a lot of nuturing, even as an adult. This is not a bad thing, although our culture views this as a bad thing for men. It's simply who he is. And unless he has been around understanding and reassuring people all his life, it's is most probably he has been told, directly or indirectly, that there's something wrong with who he is. This is likely going to be the source a many psychological issues involving their emotional needs, self image and self-esteem.

Anyhow, I suspect your husband felt alienated by your close relationship with your son, that you had no room for him. You may have seen this as a "sibling" type of dynamic, but I suspect for him it was more of "three's a crowd." Your Uranus rising with his moon falling your 12H and conjunct your Pluto would have given him a sense that you yielded all power over the family dynamic and if you chose to "squeeze" him out of that dymanic, he was powerless to do anything about it.

It's likely he blames you for this - it is also likely that you are quite a bit responsibile for doing it, whether you are aware of that or not. Because your Pluto is in your 12H, you may not be very aware of how much you may have bullied him with your Plutonian energy. Actually Pluto-moon conjunctions often indicate a deeply abusive relationship, with the moon native being the abused. Other people may tip-toe around this, but in my astrological experience, this is almost always the case.

Also, because your Sun falls in his 1H, you would have commanded a lot of power over his sensitive and impressionable self image. If you did abuse him in any way, or were otherwise hurtful, cruel or unkind to him, it's likely you left a deep scarring on his sense of self.

I'll cut to the chase here: I know that it is probably assumed that the other forum members are on your side. But I don't work like that. I look at the charts and the other data, and I try to be objective. And I'm troubled by what I see. Your synsatry with your ex looks like a strong recipe for abuse, with you as the abuser. It also looks like you would resort manipulation the facts and other deceptions so to avoid your accountablity as the abuser. You may have even convinced yourself that you were either innocent or justified in your actions. While I could be wrong about any or all of this, I would nonetheless offer you this bit of advice: you may need to do some real, objective reflection on your role here as well, and not just focus on what is wrong with your ex. Even if you don't want to do that for your ex, at least do it for your child. If you do have an inclination to be abusive, it is very possible that you could one day abuse your son, or your son could learn from your example and be an abuser himself.

BTW, if anyone thinks I'm out of line, I have this to say: abuse in intolerable, and every member of our society has a responisibility to stand against the presence of abuse in our communitites. I don't turn a blind eye and hope for the best. So I'd soomer speak out, even if I end up being proven wrong, then to ignore my conscience and look the other way.
 

pisceskitty

Well-known member
I respect your opion lunar. I was married to my husband for 8yrs, and I would never abuse him, and never have. I also never abused my son. I grew up in a home surrounded by abuse, and would never inflict that type of pain on any human being. Especially my son, and the man who gave me my son.
I had to deal with his emotional abuse, and his cheating. Women would call the home, and when I gave birth to our son, he was NOT there. He would not pay bills on time, and when he was deployed he had written bad checks, and me and our child suffered alot. We had our ups and downs, believe me. But I know what went on in our home, NOT YOU. I am not an abusive person.
Never once did I say something was wrong with him. I grew up feeling ugly, and un-wanted so i've always been very caring and sensitive to people. I have alot of Pisces in my chart, mainly in my fifth house, so to imply that I abuse my child really, really hurts me lunar. It really does.
 
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pisceskitty

Well-known member
Whew..well I took a deep breath and calmed myself....So, i'll ask you this Lunar: Do you see anything positive about me in my chart? Do I have any good qualities that I could put to good use? I came to this site to make friends, and to learn as much as possible about the art of astrology. I honestly didn't ask the question to get any of the members to be on my 'side'. I just wanted to get a better understanding of certain things that's all. I have read some of your threads, and I honestly respect your opion. I've never focused much on that Pluto of mine in the 12th house. I tend to look at my 5th alot more, because i have the sun/merc/venus there.
 

wilsontc

Staff member
The challenges of online astrological analysis

Lunar,

I understand that, in looking at the chart, and seeing the energies that are flowing there, it is tempting to decide that we can understand how these energies work in a person. This temptation is increased if we have an astrological practice or have done repeated astrological analyses and we repeatedly see the same people with the same aspects coming in and all these aspects meaning the same thing. However, when we have face to face consultations, we, the astrologer, become part of the energy of the moment. And many astrologers have found they attract certain types of people to them, just as, in our everyday life, we find that we attract certain types of people to us. In addition, sometimes when people come in for a consultation, the astrologer will simply KNOW based on eye contact, voice speed, etc. about what the REAL issue is for this person. And, in doing astrogical analyses the charts we are using tend to be charts of extraordinary people...who frequently have extraordinary life challenges...so even the conclusions from database chart analysis are suspect.

When we are doing astrological analysis on the web, all the old, familiar cues are gone: face, voice, even the sort of people we tend to attract to us, or the extraordinariness of the person's chart. Instead, we have to face the very real possibility that we have no way of knowing how the other person we are doing the interpretation is using their energy...despite what we know from our years of handling client's charts or years of astrological data analysis.

As a result, all we can do is analyze the energies in the chart, and suggest some of the issues that might occur if the person does not use their energies well. In the example you gave, one person's Pluto (transformation, also power) over the other person's Moon (home, also emotions), COULD indicate that the Pluto person emotionally overpowers the Moon person in an abusive way...or it could be that the Moon person FEELS overpowered regardless of WHAT the Pluto person does. With no context to go by, we can only suggest that there are emotional power issues involved and leave it like that. We can NOT know what the emotional power issues involved are...whether they are real or imagined.

Continuing on with the strong Venus and Neptune which you so well pointed out. We know that Venus (relationships) energy is strong in the chart, but we also know that Venus is focused in the 1rst house (being, also action), which is about taking action in relationships...and could indicate someone who wants to "conquer" in relationships...once they get the relationship, they are done with it and move on. Since Saturn (duty) is conjunct (energy is combined with) Venus, this is less likely, but it IS a possibility. Again, we can not know the real result, since we will never meet, see, touch, etc. this person we are doing the reading for.

And, while Neptune is spiritual and sensitive, it can also be about deception or confusion. What is ALSO notable about his Neptune is that it has no challenging aspects to planets (I do not count Neptune as being opposite the Sun or Mars). Since Neptune has all easy flows of energy, the Neptune person may want to "take it easy" and, if something doesn't fit in with the way they are dreaming of the world (Neptune), they just ignore it and do whatever is easiest for them. This could lead to deception or confusion and, with Neptune in easy connection to Venus it could lead to deception or confusion in the relationship. But we can't ever know for certain, unless the person agrees that, yes, that is the way the other person uses their Neptune.

Doing online astrological analysis is a brave, new world, the most Uranianly friendly, free, and revolutionary in astrology to date. But it requires that we understand the differences between this method of chart analysis and the other methods we may be more familiar with.

About the new, online method of chart energy interpretation,

Tim
 

wilsontc

Staff member
professional writing?

kitty,

On a completely different subject, with Capricorn (duty, also career) modifying Mars (being, also action) conjunct (energy is combined with) North node (future goals) focused in the 3rd house (thinking, also writing) you may be interested in having some sort of career in writing, either full or part time.

Changing the subject,

Tim
 

pisceskitty

Well-known member
Thank you for the career advice! I have loved writing since I was a small girl, and have kept a journal since I was 11yrs old! I wrote for my school paper, and would also write/illustrate little books for my son with him as the main character etc.. I volunteer at the library, doing storytime with the little ones, and also helping adults who cannot read.
I think I just need help with my confidence. Everyone keeps telling me how great my writing is. I'm kind of scared to let people see my work. I've been putting off joining this writer's workshop here in New York for ages! I don't know where this fear comes from. I honestly believe i'm scared of the possibility of being a published writer. I get overwhelmed so **** easily!
 
Hi PiscesKitty,

I was looking at the synastry of you and your ex husband. Especially the Moon/Pluto aspect.

Pisceskittys Pluto conjuncts your ex partners Moon -


Moon square Pluto

PiscesKittys Moon squares ex hubbys Pluto

[deleted copyrighted content posted without owner's permission - Moderator]

Pisceskitty it seems from what I have found here you were pobably intensely in love with your husband at one time, and he knew how obsessed you were of him. He took advantage of this Kitty and because he seen you as weak possibly a doormat (sorry to use these words Kitty, I have been there myself so I mean no offense) He was quite the manipulater in the relationship. Having power over you because inside he is emotionally weak. Very intense interactions between the both of you.

Hope this is a little more of a constructive look at your relationship.

Miss S
 
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franklin taylor

Well-known member
Hi Pisceskitty,
You need to look at the aspects of the planets of your charts for some of the answers. I cannot and would not pass any psychological judgements for I have not lived you, your ex-husband's, or your child's life. It is true though that one must have some degree of healing or adaptation to one another's flaws in order to maintain a relationship with one another. You should read all you can about your's and his' Square, Opposition, and Quincunx aspects. His Moon Square Jupiter and your Sun Square Saturn kind of stand out when you read Robert Pelletier's decriptions. Squares can be basic in-born challenges that unless they are resolved, can impede a mentally and socially healthy adult life. Oppositions describe where the native's stressor points lie.
Depending on the planets involved, either can be positive especially if one overcomes and learns from them but they are certainly "sorrow bait" for the native and/or the people around them when we do not. I noticed the exhubby charts has many semisquares also. Although these are milder than squares they still deserve the title "Irritants". If you look where the qualities are on his chart his Sun sign is Fixed but his many other planets, MC, AC, IC influences are in Mutable signs, which would be conflicting to his inner (Sun) personality, (but Pisces Rising would have made him attractive to you to begin with).
You can read interpetations at astro.com and on Astrology Weekly. Astro.com is the same site these charts came from. I can't really see where your son is involved for his chart will only show where the fortunes (for good or ill) of his life lie. Although it's obvious he is a victim of circumstance as all children of divorce are. I'd have to wonder with just about everyone's chart if divorce of parents showed up in a natal chart. It would have to be a generational influence for its occurring in 50+ percent of all marriages and 100 percent in marriages that begin in the teenage years now. So if you have not read all of those aspects do so. Its the fun and only way to learn and draw one's own conclusions and not have to listen to other opinions that you may or may not agree with or hurt you.
Take Care.
Franklin
 

pisceskitty

Well-known member
Miss S,

Thank you for the reading. I really did love the man. I still do! He was always a bit of a mystery to me. One thing I will say..he could cook his butt off! he made the best pecan pie! When I was reading your post, all I could think of was Angelina Jolie, and Billy bob Thorton! talk about crazy love!
We've been divorced for a year now. Last time I saw him we had lunch, and he gave me a big hug! it was really nice to see him, and he still gives the best hugs! He took a couple of pictures of me with his Cell phone too! I really do appreciate all the positive feedback. The two of us promised to be positive about everything. He is a good man, and a great dad. Is he perfect? nope. But neither am I. I've learned alot about myself! Astrology is truly a gift!
 
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You both have this Pluto energy, so no one is the 'baddie' in all of this. When I have been in a similar relationship, I wasn't always Miss Perfect myself. You are both attracted to eachother for a reason. I think Lunar seen this Pluto Moon connection - and she interpretated it the way she sees it.

I myself who have been in an abusive relationship, I have to be careful labelling the man as the total 'baddie' because I can see it more from your perspective kitty. I'm not a man hater, but from the reading he did seem the more manipulative one. But your Pluto covers his Moon and this must be suffocating at times with the intense feelings you have for this man.

I myself own plutonian energy in my Natal chart when it comes to love I know what all this intensity is about the compelling nature of the relationship. The addictiveness of such relationships, and how hard it is to let go.

I am no expert in synastry, so I can't really judge. Only you really know what goes on in your relationship. Lunar seems more experienced in Astrology than me, and Tim is a very rational non - judgemental person I think his advice is always constructive. I am still too inexperienced to give you a more constructive reading. I wouldn't want to mislead you in any way.

You make your own choices in life Kitty, live your life the way you choose.

All the best

Miss S :)
 

pisceskitty

Well-known member
Miss S,

Again thank you for your observations. I value everyone's opion because I realize I need help when it comes to my relationships with men. I really need to make ceratin changes, and I am woman enough to admit that. We were both pretty hard on each other. I was only 23 when I married him. I've changed alot. Hey we both have! It's been a change for the better too. That Pluto transit to my natal Moon has been a blessing in disguise. All these things I had buried deep inside of me have surfaced. Like I mentioned my mom is back in my life too!

I have a man in my life right now, and we have been talking alot lately. Things were kind of tough. We both came into each others lives when things were kind of wacky! but communication between us is always great! He makes me laugh, and we always have fun. He's a Sag. like my mom also!

What hurt me most was the comment about me hurting my child. Just the thought of that made me so distraught I was crying Miss S. It was just disturbing to read that. My baby is such an inspiration to me. Hell, he's taught me alot.

I hope people in relationships can learn from this thread. My ex-husband was the first man I had ever been with so I had alot of learning to do. Especially for those of us women who had no father in the home like myself. This has really opened my eyes. Thank you all for your patience and kindness! I don't think you guys realize how much you are helping me right now.
 
Hi PiscesKitty,

I understand what you mean about the hurtful comment Lunar said about you hurting your child. I really cannot comprehend why she would say this. I think she needs to fully explain to you how she came to this conclusion. Where in your birth chart would it say you would harm a child.

Maybe she has no children and can't realize how painful a comment like this would be. If she ever read any of your posts on here she would know how much you adore children.

Maybe she has a painful childhood herself and jumped to a conclusion. I myself am jumping to conclusions figureing it out. Only Lunar can give you a sufficient answer to this. When she comes back onto the forum maybe she will settle all this. Because it has caused quite a stir.

Also because of your own childhood, I think it upset you more, brought up intense feelings of childhood back, and for someone to say you would put your own child through the same pain brought you to tears.

Focus on the happiness you have now. Your child. Your health and well being.

Miss S
 
Also Lunar gave me lovely child report, which I very much appreciated. She was very understanding and sensitive. I don't understand what she found in the chart to indicate abuse. Why she would react so srongly.

Well I won't drag the issue on. She has her reason. I will lay this to rest. Because I know it upsets you Kitty.

Miss S
 

pisceskitty

Well-known member
Miss S,

Don't worry about it sweetie! I spoke with my older sister this evening, she's like my best friend.[Gemini like my son!] she really helped ease my pain a bit. I know the type of mother I am. My grandmother used to have a saying: "what people think of me is none of my buisiness"! I know what she meant by that! What was said, was said. People are entitled to their opion. Its an open forum. I just would like to move on, and speak of things that uplift my spirit. Not things that beat it down.

I am still open to any constructive analysis! thats why i'm here guys! to learn, and to grow. If I had anything to hide, I wouldn't have posted my son's info. Or my Ex's info. The question popped up in my head a few days ago. My ex has been on my mind, because he is going to be returning from the middle east soon[he's in the army]
He mentioned feeling like an outsider not just in the marriage, but also in his childhood. He was always very honest about his childhood.That's why I said we felt like siblings! I talked about my mom with him. He was the only person I really opened up to. We were very close.
 
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