How much control do we have in our lives?

retinoid

Well-known member
On one end you have the law of attraction on the other you have total acceptance and emptiness. Can we really control our destiny? Can we really get whatever we 'want'? Or do can we only plant the seeds and not know when they will grow or what they will grow into?
 

waybread

Well-known member
I don't think this is a "one size fits all" proposition.

Imagine two people.

One is a poor, disabled woman living hand-to-mouth on the streets of Calcutta. She has a big fund of innate intelligence, but her physical and social limits make it difficult for her to escape her Untouchable status.

The other is a white American male from an upper middle-class family, who has just received his acceptance letter from Harvard University.

Both are intelligent people. Yet the differences in their backgrounds give them very different possibilities for self-determination.

Or imagine twins, where one is brain-damaged at birth yet the other grows up to follow his dream career.

Then surely astrology should have something to say about this. Suppose you are born with sun conjunct Mars trine Uranus. You might well grow up believing in your God-given self-determination. But what if you are born with Saturn-Pluto opposite your sun? You might believe you never get a lucky break because enormous forces more powerful than you conspire to prevent your happiness.
 

Prominent

Well-known member
Can we really control our destiny?
What is destiny? If it is something static, then can it be something at all?

Can we really get whatever we 'want'?
What is wanting?

Or do can we only plant the seeds and not know when they will grow or what they will grow into?
It might help to explore the process of doing things subconsciously. Why are these done without our active thought, like brushing hair out of our eyes or walking..
 

retinoid

Well-known member
I don't think this is a "one size fits all" proposition.

Imagine two people.

One is a poor, disabled woman living hand-to-mouth on the streets of Calcutta. She has a big fund of innate intelligence, but her physical and social limits make it difficult for her to escape her Untouchable status.

The other is a white American male from an upper middle-class family, who has just received his acceptance letter from Harvard University.

Both are intelligent people. Yet the differences in their backgrounds give them very different possibilities for self-determination.

Or imagine twins, where one is brain-damaged at birth yet the other grows up to follow his dream career.

Then surely astrology should have something to say about this. Suppose you are born with sun conjunct Mars trine Uranus. You might well grow up believing in your God-given self-determination. But what if you are born with Saturn-Pluto opposite your sun? You might believe you never get a lucky break because enormous forces more powerful than you conspire to prevent your happiness.

Okay so this is more of an acceptance approach and logical approach. Do you believe in magic for instance? Where your will can transcend these mundane and astrological forces?
 

retinoid

Well-known member
What is destiny? If it is something static, then can it be something at all?

Why can't it be something if it is static?

What is wanting?

When you see and hear something you consciously want it for yourself?

It might help to explore the process of doing things subconsciously. Why are these done without our active thought, like brushing hair out of our eyes or walking..

So you believe that we control our lives on a subconscious level? Not on a conscious one?
 

Prominent

Well-known member
Why can't it be something if it is static?
Think of a giant piece of paper that has many fibers that construct it. Say that this paper is our destiny. Put it way in the distance and travel towards it. Overall the paper isn't moving or changing, but the pieces that construct it are all different shapes and angles. Destiny may be the act of reaching the paper, but where you land upon it can produce different results/feelings based upon the fibers you've become lodged between.

The Earth may look static and unchanging from a great distance, but up close on it's surface you see many things occurring, many parts that all layer and interact.
Everything looks static from a distance when the parts that construct it are blurred together.. So.. What does destiny look like from a distance.. It looks like a generalized static thing that has all the details blurred together.. but destiny up close looks much different, it looks like our present moment, with all the nuances and variability involved.

So what do we control here? I would think that you'd have a harder time trying to control something further away from you, so it would see that the closer we get to our self on a precise and sharp level the more control emerges from this focus. We have to be WILLING to look at ourselves deeply and steadily.

Now, just because we may or may not have control, what makes us choose to do something? Do we have a choice?.. If we are stuck.. or being pressured and constantly pushed by everything surrounding us due to their blindness and FREE lives.. then those who have more focus will try to relieve the pressure that tries to dampen the WILL by maneuvering/acting with a determined line..

But this still leaves open the question.. What makes us want to have either more Freedom or more Will.. Perhaps we can't choose between them if we potentially can do either case. Perhaps we have both and oscillate between the two and sometimes based upon conditions one side becomes stronger therefore becoming Conscious while the other becomes Subconscious.. and in time, perhaps these flip and different parts of FREE / WILL change from conscious to subconscious and vice avers..
 

retinoid

Well-known member
The Earth may look static and unchanging from a great distance, but up close on it's surface you see many things occurring, many parts that all layer and interact.
Everything looks static from a distance when the parts that construct it are blurred together.. So.. What does destiny look like from a distance.. It looks like a generalized static thing that has all the details blurred together.. but destiny up close looks much different, it looks like our present moment, with all the nuances and variability involved.

So essentially no matter what we do 'destiny' will play out. Because if destiny is the earth, whatever we do on the micro level will still be aligned with destiny to some extent.

So what do we control here? I would think that you'd have a harder time trying to control something further away from you, so it would see that the closer we get to our self on a precise and sharp level the more control emerges from this focus. We have to be WILLING to look at ourselves deeply and steadily.

What do you mean?

Now, just because we may or may not have control, what makes us choose to do something? Do we have a choice?.. If we are stuck.. or being pressured and constantly pushed by everything surrounding us due to their blindness and FREE lives.. then those who have more focus will try to relieve the pressure that tries to dampen the WILL by maneuvering/acting with a determined line..

So are you saying that with a determined line and focus you have a lot of control over your life? But failure happens often so how much control do we have?...
 

Prominent

Well-known member
So essentially no matter what we do 'destiny' will play out. Because if destiny is the earth, whatever we do on the micro level will still be aligned with destiny to some extent.
Yes, I think that makes sense. I would think essentially we make up destiny, like an abstraction that can be interpreted multiple ways.. like seeing images in clouds.

What do you mean?
Looking inwards at the pressures that are effecting us can tighten your focus up into a micro level whereas looking outwards causes your focus to begin to expand and become less precise (there are boundaries of space that distort things, and these need to be crossed in order to dig into things).

So are you saying that with a determined line and focus you have a lot of control over your life? But failure happens often so how much control do we have?...
I don't think things fail, but rather they just get misaligned, like having your vision become construed due to something that gets in the way. The destiny is still there, but now you're heading down a different path. The failure is felt when you want what you were originally after, but for whatever reason it appears as if you can't get to it due to the new circumstances.. Perhaps failure is a sense of loss / being lost.
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
On one end you have the law of attraction on the other you have total acceptance and emptiness. Can we really control our destiny? Can we really get whatever we 'want'? Or do can we only plant the seeds and not know when they will grow or what they will grow into?

I think we have limits, obviously; like only so much time, space, ability, energy, etc. I think really knowing oneself, one respects these limits and can do wonderous things with them.

For example; A canvas is only so large, yet a painter can create a myriad of beautiful things on that same canvas despite the limitation of it's size and the finite amount of paint or colors. It is only the adeptness and imagination of the painter that determines what exactly turns out on that canvas. And, how much time they wish to take with that, as well.
 

waybread

Well-known member
The old free-will vs. determinism debate gets pretty stale. Obviously, there are limits to what you can accomplish through force of will. As you enter old age, for example, you find you can't simply will your body into being a teenager again.

At the same time, people make choices all the time. Chocolate or vanilla? Turn right or turn left? Hit your brother out of anger, or make a supreme effort at self-control? Our entire legal system is based on the idea that people make moral choices. Most people have more choices than they think they have.

I can't believe that the universe determines whether you like pepperoni on your pizza.

What do you mean by magic? I find great enchantment in nature, beautiful music, a good book, and love.

I don't think people should try to make magic, as in black magic or even something like rune-casting. Most people are too ****** up to have that kind of psychic power, even assuming it exists; and would use it for bad purposes, if they did. Particularly trying to control another person is a rotten idea.

No doubt you are familiar with the saying, "Let go and let God."
 

Moog

Well-known member
I don't think anyone actually knows precisely.

I believe it's somewhere in the region of none to a bit.
 

retinoid

Well-known member
Can you be more specific? An example? One size does not fit all.

Well say you are at a job that doesn't pay you enough money to live well and the job itself is lackluster. The job market is also bad. So what do you do? Accept it and still look around or put all your energy and motivation into finding something else?
 

waybread

Well-known member
I'd say you have a choice here. The universe isn't going to help you out much on this one. Your chart may show whether you are a highly motivated individual, or someone who prefers to sit back and wait for something to happen.

Note how many choices you do have. One would be to choose to have the lackluster job be fulfilling, merely because you say so. Another would be to do a credible job for your current employer, while at the same time sprucing up your resume and getting it out there to new prospective employers. A third would be to keep your job while looking for a second part-time job that would boost your income. A fourth choice would be to quit your job, get on welfare, and blame life for being unfair. A 5th choice would be to look for ways to trim your expenses so that you have more discretionary income, regardless of whether you keep this job or take a new one.

And so it goes.
 

Prominent

Well-known member
I don't think anyone actually knows precisely.

I believe it's somewhere in the region of none to a bit.

I think not knowing is just that- not knowing. When you look and see, you find out. In other words, you get out what you put in. Everyone uses patterns and key-points to which they work by. It's how everything stays doing what everything does. You just have to look at what patterns people use and you'll find a line that you can fall into to get through it all, or at least someplace else.
 

Moog

Well-known member
I think not knowing is just that- not knowing. When you look and see, you find out. In other words, you get out what you put in. Everyone uses patterns and key-points to which they work by. It's how everything stays doing what everything does. You just have to look at what patterns people use and you'll find a line that you can fall into to get through it all, or at least someplace else.

Pardon?

Yes, not knowing is not knowing, I'll agree there.
 

Prominent

Well-known member
When you look into things, there are details described on the topography of everything, and it effects how everyone acts, similarly to water on a mountain will funnel into river channels. It's predictive if you can trace the angles to everything, you just have to know what to look for (how to translate the language/information).
 

Moog

Well-known member
When you look into things, there are details described on the topography of everything, and it effects how everyone acts, similarly to water on a mountain will funnel into river channels. It's predictive if you can trace the angles to everything, you just have to know what to look for (how to translate the language/information).

That sounds a bit like astrology. :wink:
 
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