chart overlay

warp

New member
I am a newbie and this is the greenhorns lounge and this is my first post so here goes. I have been studying astrology for about 2 months now and have the following basic question:

When I am trying to compare the natal chart to either a progressed chart or a current date chart indicating transits, I find that the mid heaven position may not be identical to the natal chart i.e. natal chart or progressed/transit chart may not show the mid heaven as true 90 degree north - it could be either left or right of true north And therefore between the two charts there could be a 7-10 degree difference between the mid heaven position. In such a case does one calculate the aspects by:

1. Placing the two charts with true north at the same angle in both charts ?

or

2. turning the progressed/transit chart slightly so that its mid heaven coincides with the mid heaven of the natal chart and then calculate the aspects that the progressed/transit planets make to natal planets?

or

3. does one simply say e.g. that in my natal chart say Jupiter is 1.42% from mid heaven and say in my progressed chart on a particular date, Jupiter is 60 degrees from the mid heaven in that progressed chart, so even if the midheaven positions themselves have shifted a bit, that it is a true sextile? or do I account for the shifting of the midheaven as indicated in point 1 above?

Will really appreciate if someone can clarify this.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Saying the following may not help your situation at the moment but I need to say it anyway.
As an astrology teacher and professional astrologer for the past 30 years I have found the most common reason for people to give up studying astrology is their impatience to "know it fast" and their unreasonable expectations of understanding and internalizing all the symbolic element of astrology quickly.

You say you have been studying for 2 months. At 2 months I was still on understanding fully the individual signs, houses and the very beginning of aspects. I didn't attempt any sort of chart comparison, either transits or synastry for a year. It took a long time, and I am still learning transits because every year their are transits never seen in my lifetime....
And synastry should not be attempted until you fully understand each and every part of a chart and what it all means psychologically.

By the way, every chart you do is individual in itself....whether natal, prograssed, solar return and is read individually....the progressioned planets should be placed, by hand, on a self-written natal chart on the outside of the circle to see where they fall.

Every chart you do should be copied onto a blank chart by YOU so that you get used to the symbols and fully understand that this is a language of symbols and metaphors.
Same with transits. Draw in the transits on a written copy of your chart, on the outside...I use different color inks so that I don't get confuled between transits and progressions.
The more often you draw up a chart the more familiar you will become with this "shorthand."

Don't try to run before you can walk. Astrology is a lifelong study. There is no such thing as instant wisdom and knowledge. It takes as long to become a good astrologer as it does to become a surgeon.
LIN
 

wilsontc

Staff member
different charts, to warp

warp,

You asked:
When I am trying to compare the natal chart to either a progressed chart or a current date chart indicating transits, I find that the mid heaven position may not be identical to the natal chart

The birth chart and the progressed charts are different charts, so the Midheaven won't be in the same position. The birth chart is the chart at your birth. The progressed chart is created by moving everything in the chart, one day's movement for every YEAR of your life. This moves all the planets and points in the chart.

Astro-basically,

Tim
 

warp

New member
Re: different charts, to warp

The progressed chart is created by moving everything in the chart, one day's movement for every YEAR of your life. This moves all the planets and points in the chart.

Astro-basically,

Tim

thanks tim, what I have been doing to get my progressed chart is going to the same online source that I got my natal chart done (cafeastrology) and getting a chart done based on the "day for a year" secondary progression procedure (inputting the year of my life I want to study as the birth date) and then comparing the two charts. My original natal chart is also prepared on the same basis from the same site.

but thank you, I now understand how it should be done and as Lin says, the only way to do it would be by hand around the original chart.
 

warp

New member
Saying the following may not help your situation at the moment but I need to say it anyway.
As an astrology teacher and professional astrologer for the past 30 years I have found the most common reason for people to give up studying astrology is their impatience to "know it fast" and their unreasonable expectations of understanding and internalizing all the symbolic element of astrology quickly.

thank you very much for taking time to write your detailed response. A friend of mine sent me Steven Forrest's e book "The Inner Sky" in Feb of this year and it lay unread on my harddrive for months. He sent it to me because he is a student of astrology for the last 15 years and thought that I should understand it myself given the traumatic events in my life in the last 10-12 years. One night I started reading it and I could not stop. I got it printed so that I would have a hard copy to read whenever and wherever. I finished reading it thrice in 2 weeks. I then bought his book," The Changing Sky" and I also bought Carol Rushman's book, " The Art of Predictive Astrology". I have read both these books. This has given me an appreciation for just how big a mountain I have to climb if I am to understand even a fraction of the mastery that these two authors have exhibited in their books. This will and has to be a life long study.

Having seen Mount Everest by doing a flyby, I have now gone back to the original book and to basics to try and truly cement my understanding of basics. I have looked at my own chart and realized e.g. that I could put a finger on my why I may have contradictory feelings at times going on for years ... my Taurean sun is square my Aquarius moon and Aquarius is also my Ascendant.

But clearly for me the burning desire is to try and understand my own life especially the difficult events of the last 10-12 years and to try and predict as to when the tide will finally turn. In these two short months I have realized by looking at my own natal chart and of a few close friends that if you understand the symbols and their relationships to each other, they speak to you. I have understood why certain close friends behave the way they do now. I used to be baffled by their behaviour for years, but when i studied their charts their behaviour was understandable even with my minimal understanding of astrology.

By the way, every chart you do is individual in itself....whether natal, prograssed, solar return and is read individually....the progressioned planets should be placed, by hand, on a self-written natal chart on the outside of the circle to see where they fall.

Every chart you do should be copied onto a blank chart by YOU so that you get used to the symbols and fully understand that this is a language of symbols and metaphors.
Same with transits. Draw in the transits on a written copy of your chart, on the outside...I use different color inks so that I don't get confuled between transits and progressions.
The more often you draw up a chart the more familiar you will become with this "shorthand."

thanks again for this advice. I will follow it.
 
Re: different charts, to warp

Welcome to AW,

I hope you will take a little time to introduce yourself properly from the main index--- introduce forum.

thanks tim, what I have been doing to get my progressed chart is going to the same online source that I got my natal chart done (cafeastrology) and getting a chart done based on the "day for a year" secondary progression procedure (inputting the year of my life I want to study as the birth date) and then comparing the two charts. My original natal chart is also prepared on the same basis from the same site.

but thank you, I now understand how it should be done and as Lin says, the only way to do it would be by hand around the original chart.

Amongst other things, astrology is a wonderful tool for understanding yourself and others better.....enabling us to make better choices in life as we become aware of how our behaviour influences what happens to us through the law of cause and effect. Astrology does not reliably predict the future.......But it can provide an excellent insight into the psychological make-up of people, enabling us to accurately predict their behaviour and it's resultant effects

If you intend to learn about astrology, you will need to begin with a natal chart, it need not necessarily be your own, but many choose to begin this way, in an effort to better understand their own life journey, and purpose. Astrological natal charts are as individual as a persons ‘fingerprints’ depending on where (latitude & longitude) and time of birth.It is important to get your *time of your birth* as this is the most important information.

Here are my personal recommend beginners links to focus upon Natal charts:-
I hope that you come here and want to learn about astrology and join in with exchanges. There ever expanding Education forum here and lots more to explore. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12556 http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm
http://wilsontc.stormloader.com#continue
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natalastrology.html
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/learn-astrology/astrology-lessons.php


House systems
Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Equal_house_system#Equal_House
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
For further research try here...
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=3280&highlight=placidus+equal
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=638&highlight=house+system
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?p=152849#post152849


It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'


Basic astrology
Now basically your sun sign is your 'core beliefs, values, ego' and Asc is your physical body, mode of expression and mask and persona that we all wear and hide behind, but definitely not what's going on underneath. What's going on underneath is your Sun sign. Moon sign, house placements and aspects describe your emotional and intuitive responses, also describes your view of your mother, as saturn describes your father by sign and house position.

So, think of a glass milk bottle the bottle is your Asc and your sun the milk, but the milk still has to 'come out' through the glass neck of the milk bottle....

Now aspects within a natal chart represent 'facets' of our personality, because we are all multifaceted beings. What these do is 'break down and compartmentalise' these facets into smaller bite size chunks. This does take quite a lot of self analysis and objectivity to 'see yourself' and why you do certain things and behave in certain ways. Actually it can be quite good therapy...

Your natal chart is like a photograph as unique as your fingerprint, BUT the 10planets in the sky have not stayed where they were in your natal chart, they have all moved. Predictive astrology is mostly maths where those 10planets are now and the mathematical aspects they make to your natal charts ie: 180'=opposition, 90'=square, 60'=sextile and 120'=trine.

So your personality, grows, develops, changes, matures as we get older, this is reflected by your sun sign changing from it's natal position to the next sign along, so does your Asc and MC sign change. In fact from sun to mars espec are important, as the outer planets really don't move much, using a 'day for a year' secondary progressions.

If you want to research more into Secondary progressions try here
http://cafeastrology.com/secondaryprogressions.html
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Astrological_progression

Researching rulers of houses will help you understand more where I joining the dots so to speak
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/rulersofhousesinhouses.html

House systems Traditional v Modern
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=8463

Houses: angular houses 1/7 4/10 the energies of planets placed here are obvious cos it's your 'shop window' visible for everyone to see. Next the succeedent houses 2/8 & 5/11 the energies in these houses are not in shop window the are in the shop, but stood behind the counter, ready to come out when needed. Lastly, cadent houses 6/12 & 3/9 these houses/planets are not in shop window or stood behind the counter, they are in the back storeroom and only come out when 'triggered' or an emergency and much harder to recognise and access...

The houses are like the backdrop of a stage, the setting if you like, the planets are like actors and the aspects are how the planets behave in that settings/stage....

Perhaps you should read this thread entitled: astrology predicts meanings, not events
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17546&page=2
Etiquette and telling people their fate
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17248
10Do’s and Don’ts with astrology by Rahu
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=17450

Astrology is not about sitting home on the couch eating nachos and waiting for the planets to make good things happen in your life. It is always your responsibility to work towards making your own dreams come true. Horoscopes simply help you to schedule your actions for the best possible outcome
http://www.tomorrowsedge.net/virgo-monthly-astrology-horoscope.html


What Astrology Can and Can Not Do

http://www.ofspirit.com/susanmiller1.htm
 

warp

New member
Astrologer 50,

thank you so much for that treasure trove of information and links. The links on the evolution of the house systems have been especially useful in answering the first question I posed relating to the positioning and the angle of the MC. I hope to participate more on the forum as my knowledge levels increase and I am able to hold a coherent conversation on the subject.

thank you very much again.
 

Lin

Well-known member
Just a warning about changing house systems. My best advice is to pick one and stick to it no matter how it may not make sense, or you don't like where it deposits the planets, or you "think" it must be wrong.
There's a reason why Placidus-Tropical is used so much. It's very accurate. But that's just my opinion. Years ago I tried using other systems and went back to my comfort zone, which just felt right.
LIN
 
Top