Seeking Help on Son's Sentencing Date :(

Namaste, everyone,

I haven't been here long enough to know how to post an actual chart here, so I apologize for just giving stats and asking anyone interested in offering insight to pull it up...or maybe someone can tell me how it's done? Thank you in advance... Stats are 12/15/74, 11:58 PM, Maywood (Chicago) IL.

My beloved son has a sentencing date of July 31, 2008 at 9 AM, from having been busted in a drug-selling situation he was only peripherally involved in (meaning, he had no idea of its scope and who was involved). The bust happened three years ago, December 10 of 2005, and he's been free on personal recognizance (a miracle in itself) and has been of stellar behavior both in terms of growing consciousness about what he participated in, as well as how the courts see his having maintained drug tests, P.O. visits, etc.

I'm interested in anyone who'd be kind enough to offer feedback on how they see this court date going, whether it seems likely he'll avoid jail time or not and just get probation...and of course as his mother with severely barbecued nerves I'm eager for input from any quarter -- transits, progressions, solar arc direction...tea leaves... LOL...

What I see (through my hysterical fog) is that transiting Uranus will be pretty directly squaring his twelfth house ruler, Mercury; transiting Saturn will be just moving into his twelfth house; and his progressed Pluto is IN the twelfth, opposing the Moon... But I also see other things softening these; so....would anyone kindly offer a word or two?

Thank you again sooo much in advance......

If you want to know whether imprisonment is going to be a factor this year, check his Solar return chart. Once cast (which you can do at Astro.com), look to the 12th House and answer these questions;

1. What Planets are placed there (dont forget also to look for the Tail of the Dragon there)?
2. Who is the Lord of the 12th House?
3. Where is this Lord in the chart?
4. Is the Lord of the 12th House dignified or debilitated?
5. Are there any aspects between the Lord of the twelfth and Jupiter/Venus/POF?
6. Are there aspects between the Lord of the 12th and the Lord of the Ascendant and what are they?
7. Is the Moon, Lord of the Ascendant, and especially the twelfth cusp and his Lord in Cardinal, Fixed or Mutable Signs?
8. Are these placed in angles, succedent or cadent Houses?
9. Is there an aspect between the Lord of the 12th and Saturn?

Once you have answered these questions, you will gain a fairly accurate view if your son will go to prison and if he does, how long it will be for. Answer the questions above and then we can analyze the results together.

Aaron, I can't tell you how much I appreciate your help... Thank you so much...

Palms really sweating now; not sure I like how these answers to your questions are shaping up...

1: None
2: Pluto
3. Pluto placed in second at 00Cap
4. Pluto is conjunct Sun w/9-degree orb; conjunct Mercury with 4-degree orb; inconjunct Moon with 3-degree orb and (gulp) square Saturn with a 9-degree orb.
5. No aspects with Jupiter, Venus, POF (that I can see...)
6. Ruler of 12th and Ruler of Asc are both Pluto; 12th cusp is 00 Scorpio, ascendant is 22 Scorpio
7. Leo Moon is fixed; Lord/Ruler of Ascendant is Pluto, at 00 Cap in a Cardinal sign and same for Lord/Ruler of 12th, Pluto
8. Moon is in 9th or cadent; Pluto is in Succedent
9. Yep, Pluto squares Saturn in a 9-degree orb...

Argh... Trying not to throw up... !

Thank you again,
S.

Sorry, I dont use the modern Planets, I assume by Pluto you mean the Sign is Scorpio and therefore Mars is his Lord. Can you look for Mars please instead of Pluto. Thanks!

Ah...okay... Oh dear...that looks even worse...

3. Lord of 12th house being Mars (yes, Scorpio there), placed at very edge of 1st at 21 Sag (cusp is 22)
4. *shudder* Mars exactly square Saturn; square Uranus with 3-degree orb; conjunct Sun by 2 degrees; conjunct Pluto by 7. Sextiles Neptune; sextiles Chiron.
5. No major connections with Jup/Venus/POF; very weak trine to POF at 12 Aries
6. 12th Ruler and Ascendant Ruler are the same (Mars), Scorpio being sign on both cusps
9. Yep; that exact square.

I think all the other questions are answered, yes?

Definitely not getting a good sense of this...which is weird, because on all intuitive fronts I'd been getting that he'd squeak by...maybe just Mother's Vision...?

Oh wait! No! I lied! I'm sorry; one more question this Lord-Change from Pluto to Mars affects:

8. Mars, the lord of the 12th and the Ascendant, is placed in the First, so an Angular, house...

Okay lets see here.

Mars (Lord of the 12th) placed in the Ascendant indicates imprisonment of the Native very quickly and rashly, without just decision. There is a conjunction between Saturn (Natural significator of prisons and imprisonment) and Jupiter (Lord of the Ascendant) which can indicate some favour or positivity bestowed upon the native by some high ranking official who is older in years, in your case most likely a judge (Saturn being found in the 9th). If sentenced, the maximum I believe is illustrated by this chart is contained in the degrees distance between the Ascendant and Mars (which is 13) and the type of Sign it is placed in (common which means weeks to months). Therefore around 13 months maximum if imprisoned. However we must take into account the trine between Saturn and Jupiter and judge that this may be reduced because of this (possibly by 4 weeks or 4 months).

I have never done an imprisonment chart before so this type of prediction is quite new to me but I dont see how it would be different from other questions asked. If someone else seems something I have missed I would like to hear your opinion. Let us know how this turns out. I hope this has helped you. Lets hope im not completely off base!

Ohhhhh Lordy............. *sigh* Aaron, and anyone else who has been reading along, I must apologize and am soooooo embarrassed. First off: When I went to Astrodienst to bring up my son's solar return chart, I *forgot that it would default AHEAD to the 2008/2009 chart*... So everything I told you in answer to your questions came from his 2008/2009 chart... Just did some hunting but can't find an easy way to upload the correct chart here; so I'll just re-answer your questions with the *correct data*... *rolling eyes* Argh....

But then, Aaron, there's this other confusion I'm having... Thank you *so much* for all your input here; but when you mentioned there being a Jupiter/Saturn conjunction...and of Saturn being placed in the 9th...I wondered, Have you switched into Horary mode? Then when I realized I'd supplied the wrong information, I thought that must be it; but when I now look at his *correct* 2007/2008 Solar Return chart, I don't see those configurations you mention there, either...?! I'm very sorry if I'm being dense! And I apologize for my error on the chart data; anyone observing me clairvoyantly would surely see I'm nearly entirely out of my body in Maternal Spazz Panic, and am afraid my brain synapses had no order whatsoever when I first asked this question...Tiny bit calmer now... Thanks for your patience...!



Correct answers for your questions:



1. Saturn is actually on the Ascendant of this chart! In the 12th by one minute.
2. Ruler of the 12th is the Sun with Leo on the cusp.
3. Sun is found in the 4th house
4. Sun is exactly conjunct Mercury; conjunct Jupiter by 6 degrees and Pluto by 5; very widely squaring Uranus by 9 degrees; sextiles Neptune and opposes POF exactly.

5. (That wide opposition to POF, plus conjoining Jupiter as per above); nothing to Venus.
6. Ruler of Ascendant and Ruler of 12th are exactly conjoined.

7. and 8. Moon in this chart is in Pisces, so Mutable, right on the Descendant in the 7th (angular); Ruler of Ascendant, Mercury, in Sag or Mutable, is found in the 4th (angular); 12 Ruler of Leo, Sun, is in the 4th (angular) also.
9. No aspect between Sun and Saturn.




Thank you again!!!

EDIT : I just reread what you wrote and you said things that do not match my chart that I have casted for this. Saturn I find is placed in the 12th but no where near the Ascendant, the 12th House is in Virgo, as with the Ascendant, the Sun is in the 3rd House not the 4th.. Did i receive the wrong date information?

This same thought occured to me after I had posted as I realized his birthday was in December (tricky late month birthdays!). I would still be cautious about the next year as well concerning this because there are some very strong signals of imprisonment as well in that chart which need to be observed.

With regards to Saturn/Jupiter in the last chart, I said they were trine not conjunct thats why it was confusing.

I think we can chalk all of this confusion up to Mercury retrograde!

Well, there y'go, I guess; Mercury IS retrograde, after all...! Yow. Feeling totally at a loss at this point; feels so weird to impose in the first place, asking for help...and then all these informational crossed-wires happen. *^%*$#&!!!!!!!!!! Clearly, *only* Merc Rx could result in something like this:

From one post of yours: "There is a conjunction between Saturn (Natural significator of prisons and imprisonment) and Jupiter (Lord of the Ascendant) which can indicate some favour or positivity bestowed upon the native by some high ranking official who is older in years, in your case most likely a judge (Saturn being found in the 9th)."

And then from this last one: "With regards to Saturn/Jupiter in the last chart, I said they were trine not conjunct thats why it was confusing."

Totally see how the Interp is more trine-sounding, perhaps, than a conjunction, so I'm sure that's what you meant to say! And then, witness my OWN, confusing last year's and this year's Solar Return... And THEN, we have the Great Mystery as to why *neither* year's SA chart resembles what you've been reading from!

Dear Aaron, if you're out of patience with this little tango, I thank you sincerely for what you offered and will understand if you need to just let go at this point... But if you feel to push through to figure this out...or if anyone else is reading and would like to offer perspectives, still...here is my son's birth data again: 12-15-1974, 11:58 PM, Maywood (near Chicago) IL... Original arrest date was 12-10-2005; his court sentencing date is 07-31-2008 at 9 AM in Albuquerque, NM.

Thank you again so much!

LOL! Sync!

Okay I am going to upload the SR and the Nativity I see and you tell me if all of the information is correct. I meant trine in my statements, not conjunction (again another Mercury blunder!). We need to first establish a correct chart and then work from there. Im not impatient so dont worry!

Ahhhhhhh..............*the dots connect*..........*the angels sing...and shake their heads*...

Aaron, thank you so much for your patience; I have figured out FINALLY that it was my spazz that created the discrepancy between what I got for a 2007/8 SA chart and what you did... I had a default setting on Astrodienst that relocated anything needing relocating to where we are here -- in AZ -- whereas his natal is Maywood, IL. That shifted the house positions enough to place Saturn so differently... Who can tell I don't do SA charts very often???

Man, I wish I knew how to post a chart; so sorry to ask you to recalc again; but if you relocate the SA chart to Tucson, AZ, where he is now, that's what gives us Saturn on the Ascendant...