Lots of Pluto connections=Fated or Karmic relationship?

Aqualad

Member
Hey folks, I met this wonderful woman a few days ago, things are going swimmingly if somewhat intensely. Anyway, I've read Pluto connections to personal planets often mean more than just the connection itself, like you've met this person before or something.

Anyhow, we've got lots of these connections in synastry and the composite. Here are the Pluto connections in synastry in case you don't want to read the chart (My planets are in the left column):
Pluto Square Sun
Pluto Square Moon
Pluto Sextile Venus
Pluto Sextile Saturn
Venus Trine Pluto
Moon Square Pluto

And in the composite:
Moon Conjunct Pluto
Sun Square Pluto
Venus Square Pluto
Mars Trine Pluto
Jupiter Trine Pluto
Neptune Sextile Pluto

I've read up on some pretty horrific experiences regarding these combos, and I'm on the alert not to hurt her, as I would never intentionally do so. However in both of our natals, we both have Moon & Sun Square Pluto, so would that possibly mean we handle the relationship aspects better since we already carry them within ourselves?

Oh and any input on Plutonian connections within a relationship would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help!
 
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Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Okay, first, I didn't study the charts in great detail, just glanced at them. Notice she has a T-Square with Sun/Moon/Pluto. Powerhouse there. Yours is Sun-Pluto square. The Composite has a Grand Trine involving Pluto, and I've hard a Grand Trine in composite can lend a sort of "can't escape it" sense. (But I've also seen a Grand Trine in two charts where he "stalked" her and she was almost desperate to get away from him, so I'm a bit dubious about that.)

I don't, myself, think of Pluto as "fated" or karmic in the same way I see Saturn or even Neptune to be. I think a lot of Pluto contacts in synastry and composite point to the fact you each "stir up stuff," deep psychological stuff, in the other. You feel a magnetic pull to one another. But squares can be worrisome, as they indicate power plays. The fact you have squares in your natal chart means you're at least familiar with the energy, and having them with a partner might be a way of addressing that energy, but only if you feel you each have it managed in your OWN charts. Otherwise, you could wind up "projecting" it onto the other.

Incidently, Pluto-Venus, Pluto-Moon, and Pluto-Sun contacts of any kind tend to be very sexually charged.
 

Munch

Well-known member
I'm in inclined to agree with Kenoshamensa. You too may actually 'activate' this aspect in each other. Procede carefully. Pluto contacts should not be underestimated. There is a lovely sun/moon conjunction in your synastry which will help you work through any issues BUT you must keep the urge to rush full speed ahead in check. Otherwise there's a good chance that Pluto will speed you to the end of this very quickly.
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Oooo, Munch has a good point ... Sun/Moon conjunction in synastry is very positive: a mix of your energies. Sorry I failed to note that! :) But yes, what she said about caution.
 

bittermoon

Well-known member
I agree with the above. I'd look more at Saturn connections, and connections to the nodes than Pluto. Personally not really fond of hard Pluto aspects. Too much room for obsession and control issues. Unfortunately, my Venus squares pretty much everybody's Pluto who's around my age :sad: Thanks, but no thanks.
 

MaeMae

Banned
pluto connections often take a couple from 0 - 60 in seconds flat. the couplings can either find no breaks or they find themselves already wrecked before they put the pedal down. I've never been in a heavy pluto synastry that didn't end in blood and guts. Remember, personal survival is Pluto's strongpoint. Also good to rember in these couplings (channeled through the late Robert Blaschke, rip) that "Intensity does not equal intimacy."
Pluto interfaces reach deeeeeep into us, pulling out secret items from secret places within us. At first it can seem thrilling, but eventually, the recipient of Pluto's probing will start to quiver, feeling overpowered and defenseless against Pluto's deep reach. Very easy to let go quickly of parts of ourselves in Plutonic relations and a real fight to the finish to regain control of ourselves in those areas we've let go of.
 
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Claire19

Well-known member
I look at conjunctions in composites and Pluto Conjunct Moon in Scorpio is very significant and in the house of values, income, material assets, how we spend and earn our money in general..How we share the assets and what loans we take, bonuses, inheritances and investments all belong to Pluto Scorpio.... You may meet in the course of everyday work and at a mall or a restaurant and decide to live together.....

THe other conjunction is Venus conjunct Sun in 5th Aquarius. Pluto squares these two and there will be issues with money, assets and taking holidays, leisure pursuits, gambling and speculation perhaps and manipulation and control issues. It can mean a strong sexual romantic connection but fraught and needs to be handled and recognised. THere can be an unexpected pregnancy that takes a toll on finances or decisions made because of that...if you get my drift. If you can rise to the conflicts and challenges presented then you will be stronger and wiser.. There can be great magnetism and excitement but also obsessional behaviour.


Composites use tighter orbs and I wouldnt look at anything above 3 degrees. It is THE relationship and how the world perceives you as a couple and the dynamics at play.
 
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Aqualad

Member
Thanks very much for the input!
I have heard Venus/Saturn connections seem to infuse more stability in a relationship, we have Venus sextile Saturn in synastry, and I know one aspect alone does not redeem hard synastry, but surely it would bring about some measure of calm, yes?
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
Saturn always brings "heaviness," but the easy aspects (sextile/trine) make it less of the traditional "wet blanket."

But the problem here is that Saturn helps to stabilize more "exuberant" or "delusional" planets like Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune (even Mars). Pluto is *deep*, intense power. So yes, a sextile (as long as it's not too wide, look under 3 degrees, maybe 2 for a sextile) will help ground. But Pluto is already grounded. It will give some pragmatic insights, and may help reign in some of Pluto's tendency to exaggerate things, but I think of these two planets as being more alike than different. I realize others might disagree, but I live daily with an extremely close Mercury-Pluto contact (1 second difference) in my natal chart. So Plutonic energy is very familiar to me. Likewise, Saturn sits RIGHT on my asc from the 12th house. :) BOTH Saturn and Pluto have a deep sense of *fear* rising from insecurity and hunger that could set each other off. Both are serious. Both are powerful. Neither are flighty, chatty, innately optimistic planets (although they're less "devilish" than they're made out to be). You might be able to use Saturn to help offset Pluto, but only as long as you understand the planets' similarities.
 

Munch

Well-known member
Once again I agree with Ken.

I'm a Capricorn with Saturn as a chart ruler sitting on my ASC squaring my sun and have Pluto in the 1st conjunct my POF. Pluto has transited almost all of my personal planets and is now on my IC and moving into a conjunction with my Sun. These energies are very heavy. Pluto is driving, relentless and digging while Saturn is duty, responsibility, burden and delays. I think having too much heavy energy can take a person's desire to keep going away from them. The relationship becomes far too much work with the pay off being far too down the road.

What's more, is it is my belief and many other astrologers agree that Saturn contacts, no matter what (trine, conjunction, square, etc) is always kind of a dampening affect. Somewhat mitigated by easier contacts but still heavy.
 

MaeMae

Banned
Saturn always brings "heaviness," but the easy aspects (sextile/trine) make it less of the traditional "wet blanket."

But the problem here is that Saturn helps to stabilize more "exuberant" or "delusional" planets like Jupiter, Uranus, Neptune (even Mars). Pluto is *deep*, intense power. So yes, a sextile (as long as it's not too wide, look under 3 degrees, maybe 2 for a sextile) will help ground. But Pluto is already grounded. It will give some pragmatic insights, and may help reign in some of Pluto's tendency to exaggerate things, but I think of these two planets as being more alike than different. I realize others might disagree, but I live daily with an extremely close Mercury-Pluto contact (1 second difference) in my natal chart. So Plutonic energy is very familiar to me. Likewise, Saturn sits RIGHT on my asc from the 12th house. :) BOTH Saturn and Pluto have a deep sense of *fear* rising from insecurity and hunger that could set each other off. Both are serious. Both are powerful. Neither are flighty, chatty, innately optimistic planets (although they're less "devilish" than they're made out to be). You might be able to use Saturn to help offset Pluto, but only as long as you understand the planets' similarities.
Saturn does well to stabilize a coupling, however, must also understand it's obligation to duty. It can represent loyalty staying power, but it can also keep a couple dutifully locked-in to bad situations.
I think an abundance of pluto aspects in the composite can be overwhelming in the end, even too much for saturn to get a grip on.
 

R.J.

Banned
Hey folks, I met this wonderful woman a few days ago, things are going swimmingly if somewhat intensely. Anyway, I've read Pluto connections to personal planets often mean more than just the connection itself, like you've met this person before or something.

Anyhow, we've got lots of these connections in synastry and the composite. Here are the Pluto connections in synastry in case you don't want to read the chart (My planets are in the left column):
Pluto Square Sun
Pluto Square Moon
Pluto Sextile Venus
Pluto Sextile Saturn
Venus Trine Pluto
Moon Square Pluto

And in the composite:
Moon Conjunct Pluto
Sun Square Pluto
Venus Square Pluto
Mars Trine Pluto
Jupiter Trine Pluto
Neptune Sextile Pluto

I've read up on some pretty horrific experiences regarding these combos, and I'm on the alert not to hurt her, as I would never intentionally do so. However in both of our natals, we both have Moon & Sun Square Pluto, so would that possibly mean we handle the relationship aspects better since we already carry them within ourselves?

Oh and any input on Plutonian connections within a relationship would be much appreciated.

Thanks in advance for any help!


The composite chart points to a potential love relationship based on friendship (SUN/VENUS conjunct in the c. 5th house) and c. Venus is the dispositor of the Libra ascendant.

The main problem, here, is overall compatibility. With c. Moon conjunct Pluto, the truth of all things will come to the surface, and some of these matters will not be comfortable (when it surfaces?) to either of you...

Therefore, the whole relationship is much like visiting your shrink for psycho-therapy, then finding out later that that is not what you really wanted to hear !

I sense this ongoing sexual jealousy and/or tension going on, here, as well as an emotional compatibility tension, as well ? (c. Sun square Moon) that could make a permanent, live-in relationship, difficult ?

The male is all for love, but he wants MORE independance than the female, who wants the male under HER thumb ! LOL The end result is a struggle for power and control...

As the other posters mentioned, watch for power struggles over shared values, and related issues...

Also, with c. Jupiter opposite Saturn, there are cultural/philosophical differences between you that need to be factored into the equation...Don't be in such a hurry to change each other... Accept these differences, as in viva la difference...

Get to know each other gradually.. Avoid the Aquarian tendency to be intellectually a smart-*ss know it all ! LOL For you guys to work out, a certain humility will be required, or else, ego inflation could well spoil the soup, as they say...

One consequence of so much Pluto going on in the composite and the synastry is, you will download each other's 'bad habits' onto each other...almost like two rebels getting together to rob a bank ? Beware of moral corruption...fraud and/or even petty criminality ?

You will be able to easily manipulate each others feelings, so this is not a play relationship...or something to play with...Take care !


good luck,



R.J. Smith
 
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MaeMae

Banned
there's a past thread about venus-pluto relationships from a few months back. a good link was posted to deborah falconer ( hope i got that right) about pluto relationships.
 

Aqualad

Member
Wow R.J. that was awesome. You and the other posters have been quite right, there have been some minor power struggles, mainly just me telling her 'No' on many things.

Would the Sun conjunct Moon energies from our synastry mitigate the composite Sun square Moon influence in any way?

Also, Kenoshamensa, you mentioned we had a Grand Trine in our composite. Could you please tell me what element our Grand Trine is?
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
The Grand Trine is in WATER, which will intensify the emotional nature of the relationship (and underscore the Plutonic-Scorpionic energy).
 

MaeMae

Banned
oh sweet aqualad! so webbed into Pluto's thrill right now. God bless you. Truly.
Okay - are you familiar with Cake song, "going the distance?"
~he's going the distance. he's going for speed. she's all alone, alone in her time of need...
pluto's not fond of giving back. he gets reward from watching us squirm and get out of a pickle. that's his strange gift. getting out.
are you having transits to natal mars or pluto right now?
anyway. hang onto yourself.
 

fullmoonlibra

Well-known member
And what if someone's sun, venus and part of fortune conjuncts my sun and north node? His pluto conjuncts my moon, mercury my mercury...
 

Aqualad

Member
To my knowledge I don't have any Mars or Pluto transits happening right now, just telling women no was just kind of how I was raised, and have since held the opinion that a woman can't love a man she can control. It's a bit like making her eat her vegetables, she may hate me for it now but over time will come to respect me that I held my ground, and in such stability, love has a chance to flourish.
 

Kenoshamaensa

Well-known member
To my knowledge I don't have any Mars or Pluto transits happening right now, just telling women no was just kind of how I was raised, and have since held the opinion that a woman can't love a man she can control. It's a bit like making her eat her vegetables, she may hate me for it now but over time will come to respect me that I held my ground, and in such stability, love has a chance to flourish.

That sounds very Pluto. I might also suggest it presents some problematic views. (Putting on my former counselor hat...) "Just telling women 'no'" ... in what context? This is an important question. A successful long-term relationship sometimes requires compromise. Sometimes you may not want to do something, but you do it because SHE wants to do it badly enough that you're more interested in making her happy than in pleasing yourself (or, more to the point, establishing either your control or your independence). But saying "no" to a request regarding something you object to morally, or find repulsive ... well, that's another matter. Or even saying "no" when you think the partner is making too many demands and not honoring yours equally.

There's that word again" equality. ;> Speaking AS a woman, I won't respect a man who can't respect me, my history, my needs, and my intelligence. If he respects these things in me, I respect them in him. Forget "a man I can control." I don't want to control. And I don't want to BE controlled. I want respect, and (willing) compromise where necessary.

Relationships aren't a power game of who can dominate whom. (or a jealousy game). When they become one, your relationship is in trouble. And note, power trials do not bring stability. They bring the opposite. To quote the Tao (=balance, or stability): To succeed, surrender. To win, lose. To do ... be. :)

So re-read what you wrote, and think about how VERY very Pluto it reads. :) It may be that your relationship is calling both of you to step beyond issues of power into issues of surrender (never an easy task for Pluto!)
 
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