Lets talk about Karma

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
Now I'm a bit more confused. If the intent wasn't "impure" or there, then there is no karmic debt to be paid?

So, that would mean that if I set up a latter that fell and somehow killed 3 people, there would be no karmic debt to be paid because I didn't intend to kill?

What about people who worked on Nazi death camps? Or better yet, what about Nagasaki and Hiroshima? Were the drivers of the planes that dropped the bombs free of karmic debt since they believed they were doing the right thing?

I know it is hard for us as humans to wrap our heads around how Heaven works. It is called Heaven for a reason: it is always perfectly fair, just, reasonable, loving and kind. The polar opposite of life on Earth.

A true accident incurs no karmic debt. However, most accidents may have some culpability. If you are intoxicated, using drugs, hurried, not paying attention, preoccupied, or failed to take reasonable precautions, then of course there is karmic debt. One would think that a prudent workman would not place a ladder so that it could kill others. This would be for the soul and guide to determine in the life review.

Most of those working in death and torture camps are going to face some heavy duty karma. The murder and torture of innocents, including women and children, cannot be seen as a solider protecting his country.

You pose an interesting question about the dropping of nuclear bombs on Japan. I think we would have also to include the inventors of the bomb, the generals and president who ordered the bombing. We would really need to talk to each of them and find the intent and thought process and feelings, etc. Did they truly believe there was no other way to stop the war? To save millions American lives? Did they explore other options, other scenarios? Or did they act imprudently and out of anger, revenge, etc. Could they have found a solution which did not involve the death of so many women and children?

This is the kind of work we do with our guides after our death.
There is a period of lives between lives, we do our life review, and work with our guides to determine how we did in the most recent incarnation. And there are questions about intent, other options, etc.

The theory also is that we chose our karmic lessons in our next life, to balance, and to learn.

I also want to say that I am not an expert on these topics. I have been studying, learning, training in a number of metaphysical topics for years now, and am happy to share what I have learned.

Julia
 

noraleader

Banned
like i illustrated,

there is a raw, psychological basis for karma even if you don't want to think about spirit.

life is a mystery - each of us is confronted with that mystery and deals with it as much or as little as we want to, but we are all aware that life is handing us straight mystery. luciferians make a presumption - "you and i are discrete and not connected". imo kind of dumb when you realise solipsism is indefatigable logic.

you're being too literal, try subtle. if you create a circumstance that causes deaths, you create a circumstance that potentiates accident. in order to assimilate this, you may present yourself in life with circumstances in which accident can occur.

trying to make it exciting, looking for the hardcore *ss whipping life/death dealing judgement, is sensationalism, not consideration.
 

Julia Karmic Astrology

Well-known member
ETHICAL BEHAVIOR IS APPLICABLE IN MANY CIRCUMSTANCES :smile:
INCLUDING BUSINESS



intro-to-commn-20-638.jpg

Yes all kinds of karmic debt.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Now I'm a bit more confused.

If the intent wasn't "impure"
or there,
then there is no karmic debt to be paid?
"Accidents" are consequences of actions :smile:

often actions involve multiple people, including the person to whom an "accident" occurs

following a trail of consequences leading to a particular "accident"
is simply not possible to pursue to a sole originating cause
therefore the most immediate cause is focused on


and so for example
if a vehicle "somehow goes out of control albeit unintentionally"
nevertheless
the driver of the vehicle is responsible for "the accident
"

for example
if the brakes were faulty
then the driver of the vehicle is responsible for not having had those brakes properly checked
before using the vehicle
and so on

So, that would mean that if I set up a ladder that fell and somehow killed 3 people,
there would be no karmic debt to be paid
because I didn't intend to kill?
If a ladder fell and somehow killed 3 people
then the person setting up the ladder
is responsible for consequences
of
NOT SETTING UP THE LADDER IN SUCH A WAY AS TO BE SAFE

the person who set up the ladder
is tried for manslaughter instead of murder

and
there are various definitions of manslaughter
including involuntary manslaughter
to take into account for such cases
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member

What about people who worked on Nazi death camps?

Or better yet, what about Nagasaki and Hiroshima?

Were the drivers of the planes that dropped the bombs free of karmic debt
since they believed they were doing the right thing?
IF killing people is wrong :smile:

then
a belief that one "is doing the right thing" by killing people
does not excuse the killing of those people


nor does the excuse one was "following orders" absolve one from experiencing the consequences of killing


For example
Charles Manson is notoriously a "serial killer" serving life
but an FBI criminologist classified the Manson Family’s crimes as being much closer to spree killings
and also
Manson wasn’t even present for the crimes he is associated with
and never actually killed anyone
.

However

the people who "carried out Mansons instructions" and killed people
all received prison sentences
and so did Manson

The argument that Manson never killed anyone himself persists

but Manson was convicted on seven counts of first-degree murder for his role in the killings.

QUOTE

“Technically, Charles Manson never murdered anybody

but the way people look at Manson is that he is such a charismatic individual that had the ability to control people.

Essentially, all of his followers were doing his bidding.

They were doing what he wanted them to do
when he wanted them to do it, how he wanted to do it.
His followers were an extension of him.”


and


A soldier whether killing people on his own
or
whether killing when acting with other soldiers who are also killing people

is following orders

and so
those soldiers are doing what the person who gave the orders to kill people wanted them to do

those soldiers are killing WHEN the person giving the orders wanted them to kill people
those soliders are killing people HOW the person giving the orders wanted the soldiers to do it.
and so
soldiers are clearly an extension of whoever is giving orders to kill
to those soldiers




 

noraleader

Banned
trying to understand karma, action, causality, from a "very subjective" perspective in life may be difficult -

in youth, you believe in many certainties... eg. your parents come home every day and provide you with things you need, you have to go to school, et c. et c. - life is very real and gripping, you need to get out of bed and go somewhere everyday, you don't have time to look at it and wonder because it makes you get dressed and go.

you're trying to understand causality from a human perspective, but it needs to be addressed from a primal perspective.

how did the universe, how did existence, causality begin?

if say some consciousness of volition sets a universe in motion, call this "lila" per hinduism, then when all that causality boils onwards to creating human societies and human lives and particularities, we are very involved, very causal indeed.

so from a human perspective, there is so much precedent action that *entails* a human being in the first place, there is so much to deal with, that trying to understand why jenny stole your boyfriend by karma is a very shallow, naive, surface analysis.


here's a simple thought..

when you are young, if you sit quietly, you are bored, because you feel, you could be playing the latest computer game, or fornicating, or whatever, because your life is full of the promises of appealing venues.

when you get to be a bit older, you will start to realise, when you sit quietly, *there is already so much going on in your mind that you will never run out of things to think about* only that you may want to avoid thinking about them and relegate them as boring or pointless to consider. turmoil.

when you are old, and approach a wider consideration that, with more "evicende," life is somehow, less solid than it seems, more permeated by.. something that runs through it, all the nonsense and detritus, it is easier to appreciate, that, reducing all of this volatile activity in your thoughts is the way to understanding, not accruing more garbage, but clearing it away.

but maybe, like tetris, you need more pieces to fall down so you can clear away some of the more troubling, attention grabbing pieces on your surface already ;)
 

Blaze

Account Closed
IF killing people is wrong :smile:

then....


Yes, that's what I was confused about.

Lemme see if I get it though.

For every action, verbal or physical, karmic debt will ensue.

Now, the act itself doesn't have to be good or evil, it simply has to "be".

So, in essence, since Hitler gave orders (Verbal karma) for others to do (Physical karma) evil, then all parties, even the victims receive karmic debt?

If that's the case, then like Julia mentioned, The bombing of Japan would be one massive karmic debt with far reaching conquinces(Those that made the bomb, the ones with the idea etc). But in that same sense, everyday is one when karmic debt is made, thanks to actions.

I hope I'm getting it now.
 

noraleader

Banned
again, karma is action, not reaction

quit focusing on "debt". karma is action in the reflexive property, A = A, action = action, karma = karma.

NOT action = reaction.


you're trying to understand it as a part in the whole. change your analytical perspective. you *are* the whole.

this is lila/maya, believing you are the part, instead of the entirety. how can you perceive the consequences if you are thinking you are just a part.

hth
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Yes, that's what I was confused about.
Lemme see if I get it though.
For every action, verbal or physical, karmic debt will ensue.
the idea of "debt" is distracting you as noraleader summarised neatly :smile:

i.e.
karma = action

NOT
reaction

actions simply have consequences

Now, the act itself doesn't have to be good or evil, it simply has to "be".
So, in essence
since Hitler gave orders (Verbal karma)
giving orders = VERBAL ACTION
verbal action has consequences
for others to do (Physical karma) evil
doing = PHYSICAL ACTION
physical action has consequences

then all parties, even the victims receive karmic debt?

VERBAL ACTION
and
PHYSICAL ACTION
of various parties
has consequences


clearly the idea of "debt" is distracting from:
KARMA = ACTION

and action has consequences - which is self-evident

If that's the case, then like Julia mentioned,
The bombing of Japan would be one massive karmic debt
with far reaching conquinces
(Those that made the bomb, the ones with the idea etc).
The bombing of Japan
is an ACTION

and
actions have consequences




But in that same sense,
everyday is one when karmic debt is made, thanks to actions.

I hope I'm getting it now.
Every day that actions are done
is a day when consequences are set in motion

the idea of "debt" continues distracting from the basics that:

KARMA = ACTION

 

noraleader

Banned
you may also be being distracted by a poignant characteristic of your "human scope analysis" - seeing things as good/bad.

detriment and benefit are relative, ..to what???!! this is an entirety. a system. unification.

you're looking for justification for suffering and pleasure, what you need is comprehension, which requires a vantage beyond human scope.

consider the action of adopting a life, an ego, a perspective. *this* alone is an action with consequences. you can reason that to adopt a single perspective loses something (say, objectivity) as well as gains something (say, the ability to experience pleasure or asset). the summation does not have the perspective to be concerned with asset or detriment.

computer programmers use a nice, dry vernacular, about "events", and "arguments", as they deal with implementing systems of instructions to perform a function. any creative practice gives perspective on creativity, and better allows you to approach the perspective of, the creator :)
 

RaRohini

Well-known member
Hi Blaze !

As per vedic understanding, the soul undergoes various types of karma.(karma meaning soul impressions -good or bad )
Sanchita Karma is the accumulated karmas from many lifetimes. It is described to be akin to a quiver of arrows ready to be shot.
Prabadhda karma is the starting of a lifetime when the arrow has already left the bow and the actions cannot be reversed . The karma has to be suffered/enjoyed. Once Brhma Jnana (knowledge of the self) is obtained, the ego is eliminated. Prarabdha now does not affect the person as he does not see events from an 'I' perspective.
Agami Karma is like an arrow that is ready to be shot. The person is unaffected by his karma like a lotus leaf which bears but is unaffected by the drops of water on it.
Those who serve and adore this person acquire merit and those who hate or censure him/her acquire demerit. He is not affected.
Once the enlightened being leaves the world he becomes SatChitAnanda (Pure Consciousness).
About the discussion regarding Hitler, i an confused too. There are two schools of thought - Advaita(not two) and Dwaita(two)
Advaita ( of Sri Adi Sankara)says that each one of us is God.. meaning Hitler is one too ! He may just have been an instrument to teach some souls a lesson ( very difficult to digest the concept). There is a story which says that this world is maya(illusion) created by Lord Shiva to entertain his wife Parvati. Once everyone reaches a certain level of consciousness, i am thinking he may flip the magnetic field or whatever and the game will be over.
But i dont want to think like this. It is suchh a dampner 😢
Dvaita is easier to follow as here we can say : there is good and evil . So good vs evil. So Hitleris evil as he went against nature and so future generations suffer the
Consequences.
My mind is whirring.. let me go grab a coffee !!!
 
Last edited:

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
Karma = Action
actions have consequences

there are three basic kinds of actions
mental
verbal
physical

Here's an example of verbal and physical action
that was preceded by
mental action inspired by good intentions
:smile:

Hamdi Ulukaya, Turkish immigrant who founded Chobani in 2005
gave 2,000 full-time employees - just days ago - stock worth around 10% of the yogurt company
when it is sold or goes public
an ownership stake that could make some of them millionaires.

Hamdi Ulukaya told workers at the company’s plant in upstate New York
that the goal is to pass along the wealth they have helped build in the decade since the company started.

Chobani is now widely considered to be worth several billion dollars

“I’ve built something I never thought would be such a success
but I cannot think of Chobani being built without all these people.
Now they’ll be working to build the company even more and building their future at the same time”
said Hamdi Ulukaya

Each Chobani worker received a white packet containing information about how many Chobani shares they were given.
The number of shares given to each person is based on tenure
so the longer an employee has been at the company, the bigger the stake.
Two years ago, when Chobani received a loan from TPG Capital
a private equity firm, the company’s value was estimated at $3 billion to $5 billion.
At the $3 billion valuation, the average employee payout would be $150,000.
The earliest employees, though, will most likely be given many more shares
possibly worth over $1 million.
http://www.nytimes.com/2016/04/27/b...ani-employees-stakes-in-the-company.html?_r=0
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
The question is, is it more beneficial to remain still, or make potentially wrongful action?

Einstein didnt know his equations would set off the atomic bomb, could he have?
 

Phoenix Venus

Well-known member
Having good foresight is crucial to making proactions. That takes a bit of experience in life situations and also a willingness to explore other options when your actions are becoming mistakes.
 
Top