Earth aspects .is it relevant?

Luney

Well-known member
I downloaded the iPhemeris app and it gives Earth placement in the chart, which is directly opposite the Sun.

Now, it also gives aspects from the earth to other planets.
are they significant?
Do astrologers use the earth aspects ?
 

rojochispa

Active member
I downloaded the iPhemeris app and it gives Earth placement in the chart, which is directly opposite the Sun.

Now, it also gives aspects from the earth to other planets.
are they significant?
Do astrologers use the earth aspects ?

Heliocentric astrology
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
This is known as the "Earth point"; very few Modernist (and no Traditionalist or Vedic) practitioners take the Earth point, and any aspectual connections it might have, into account. I don't give it much attention either-however, that is NOT to say that this might not be a field worth further investigation.
 

rojochispa

Active member
I second that. From what I know of, in Heliocentric astrology your ego is the earth sign (the sign which is opposite from your Geocentric sun sign), and your Geocentric sun is the qualities you need to develop for ascension.

Linda Goodman's Sun Sign book is a good book that describes your Sun sign qualities.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi. I don't have any experience of heliocentric astrology, but I would question the use of zodiacal signs in it. Each zodiac - with the possible exception of the sidereal zodiac (but I doubt it is an exception if it is vslid) - is derived from the relationship between the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun and an additional, geocentric factor. In the case of the tropical zodiacal cycle this other factor is the equatorial plane. In the case of the draconic zodiac it is the Moon's orbital plane. I don't see how the tropical or draconic zodiacs - or any zodiac that is derived fron a geocentric factor -
could have relevance in heliocentric astrology. Expressing the opposite sign to one's Sun sign may be important in being more objective about oneself, but we can explain this without referring to a hybrid of geocentric and heliocentric astrology which gives geocentric coordinates to the heliocentric position of Earth.

The idea of heliocentric aspects makes sense though.

Best wishes

Miquar
 

rojochispa

Active member
Hi. I don't have any experience of heliocentric astrology, but I would question the use of zodiacal signs in it. Each zodiac - with the possible exception of the sidereal zodiac (but I doubt it is an exception if it is vslid) - is derived from the relationship between the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun and an additional, geocentric factor. In the case of the tropical zodiacal cycle this other factor is the equatorial plane. In the case of the draconic zodiac it is the Moon's orbital plane. I don't see how the tropical or draconic zodiacs - or any zodiac that is derived fron a geocentric factor -
could have relevance in heliocentric astrology. Expressing the opposite sign to one's Sun sign may be important in being more objective about oneself, but we can explain this without referring to a hybrid of geocentric and heliocentric astrology which gives geocentric coordinates to the heliocentric position of Earth.

The idea of heliocentric aspects makes sense though.

Best wishes

Miquar

houses are not used it heliocentric
 
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rojochispa

Active member
I'm finding it interesting!
although I've just skimmed through some info, I would like to investigate it more.
Its kind of nice to have Earth in Taurus .. being a Scorpio, we don't get a good wrap most of the time.....:whistling:

Here's a link Ill share for the purpose of inquisitive minds..


http://www.mermaid-uk.net/earth_through_the_signs.htm

And a Book

http://www.daykeeperjournal.com/2014/12/earth-in-astrology/

Have not visited Mermaid in a few years but will again. She is into esoteric astrology like myself. Thanks for reminding me of her again ...
 

Luney

Well-known member
Hi. I don't have any experience of heliocentric astrology, but I would question the use of zodiacal signs in it. Each zodiac - with the possible exception of the sidereal zodiac (but I doubt it is an exception if it is vslid) - is derived from the relationship between the plane of Earth's orbit around the Sun and an additional, geocentric factor. In the case of the tropical zodiacal cycle this other factor is the equatorial plane. In the case of the draconic zodiac it is the Moon's orbital plane. I don't see how the tropical or draconic zodiacs - or any zodiac that is derived fron a geocentric factor -
could have relevance in heliocentric astrology. Expressing the opposite sign to one's Sun sign may be important in being more objective about oneself, but we can explain this without referring to a hybrid of geocentric and heliocentric astrology which gives geocentric coordinates to the heliocentric position of Earth.

The idea of heliocentric aspects makes sense though.

Best wishes

Miquar
Thanks for this great info Miquar:love:
I'm not Heliocentric educated myself.. .My first intuitive Perception would have thought it was a shadow side (dark side) of the sun (self ,ego), since its location is directly opposite. ..:unsure:... Ill ask the developer of the app what his thoughts are, since he adds them in the charts...
 

miquar

Well-known member
signs/houses are not used it heliocentric

Unfortunately, they are - at least by some astrologers. On Solar Fire a heliocentric chart is erected with a zodiacal wheel and for some reason even puts on the diurnal wheel, with all angles and other house cusps located at the same points as in the geocentric chart. I think this completely misses the point of looking at things from a non-geocentric viewpoint.

Best wishes

Miquar
 

rojochispa

Active member
No houses in a heliocentric chart, since the earth is the basis for house division. In Solar Fire the helio wheel is used. Signs yes, houses no.
 

miquar

Well-known member
But unless you specifically tell the software not to use houses, it does put the geocentric house cusps on, and always uses a zodiac wheel. This suggests to astrologers that mixing heliocentric aspect patterns with geocentric zodiacal and diurnal positions is an option.
 

aleth3ia

Banned
Oh I didn't see this thread.
I use earth too, actually we all do if you calculate the ASC, because the horizon and the MC/IC correspond to the place position, and that's your earth; no need to calculate it further!
Placing earth to 180' from the Sun seems a smart move anyway, but does not help us locate anything in the space. That's actually what timing the wheel (giving an ASC to it) does: location.
 

Luney

Well-known member
Oh I didn't see this thread.
I use earth too, actually we all do if you calculate the ASC, because the horizon and the MC/IC correspond to the place position, and that's your earth; no need to calculate it further!
Placing earth to 180' from the Sun seems a smart move anyway, but does not help us locate anything in the space. That's actually what timing the wheel (giving an ASC to it) does: location.

Oh Great thanks . Alan Oken uses Earth too (Esoteric .)So the placement has a purpose on the chart, but not the aspects to it? So as Alan Oken has applied Eath as our Dharma, like Saturn and Karma. would it be applied in progressive charts, SR , or just Natal?
 

Luney

Well-known member
The link in your last post is for a geocentric chart rather than heliocentric by the way.

Yes I realise that now, I wasn't aware at the time of heliocentric. This new program gives earth in all charts and Ephemeris. A new program I'm learning to use.
Cheers Miquar.. Im on L plates in this area of my study's. :)
They do use houses in Esoteric. That's how I found Earth through the signs on my first link . mermaid-U.K.net References from Alen Oken.
 
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aleth3ia

Banned
Oh Great thanks . Alan Oken uses Earth too (Esoteric .)So the placement has a purpose on the chart, but not the aspects to it? So as Alan Oken has applied Eath as our Dharma, like Saturn and Karma. would it be applied in progressive charts, SR , or just Natal?

The problem that rises in here is of a fundamental matter, because we're used to let the computers do all the calculus, and often we don't realize what the pieces actually stand for.
If we had to build alone our charts, we'd see that the latitude and longitude play a major role in the chart-building process. Well, that's earth. And it's not a point, nor a sign, but the whole chart itself! So all the planets are in aspect to earth itself, because the ecliptic strip that we divide into 12 signs is actually seen by our Earth, and we wouldn't have it alike from another planet.

I've never heard of this method, nor of Alan Oken before, but as far as I'm seeing it's a very interesting technique, Donna Cunningham uses it too... The problem is that it reduces earth to a point, but earth is actually the wheel! So, I really don't know how you have to calculate anything from the point that is mentioned in that esoteric astrology...

I'm trying to calculate the importance of Earth in a different manner, that is, determining how the 2 hemispheres are influenced, that is, if they are more or less aspected. Say most of your planet are in the Northern Hemisphere, then you'll have a predominant out-going self. The opposite if the Southern Hemisphere is more aspected, you'll have a more reserved nature.
The 2 earth hemispheres are the 2 sides of the wheel, divided by the Asc/Dc line. Earth is always half enlightened and half dark, resembling the 2 sides of the brain, and that actually makes it 2 "points": the 2 hemispheres. That's how I calculate it, but you can leave all the aspects related to earth aside, because they're actually already calculated : )
 
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Luney

Well-known member
The problem that rises in here is of a fundamental matter, because we're used to let the computers do all the calculus, and often we don't realize what the pieces actually stand for.
If we had to build alone our charts, we'd see that the latitude and longitude play a major role in the chart-building process. Well, that's earth. And it's not a point, nor a sign, but the whole chart itself! So all the planets are in aspect to earth itself, because the ecliptic strip that we divide into 12 signs is actually seen by our Earth, and we wouldn't have it alike from another planet.

I've never heard of this method, nor of Alan Oken before, but as far as I'm seeing it's a very interesting technique, Donna Cunningham uses it too... The problem is that it reduces earth to a point, but earth is actually the wheel! So, I really don't know how you have to calculate anything from the point that is mentioned in that esoteric astrology...

I'm trying to calculate the importance of Earth in a different manner, that is, determining how the 2 hemispheres are influenced, that is, if they are more or less aspected. Say most of your planet are in the Northern Hemisphere, then you'll have a predominant out-going self. The opposite if the Southern Hemisphere is more aspected, you'll have a more reserved nature.
The 2 earth hemispheres are the 2 sides of the wheel, divided by the Asc/Dc line. Earth is always half enlightened and half dark, resembling the 2 sides of the brain, and that actually makes it 2 "points": the 2 hemispheres. That's how I calculate it, but you can leave all the aspects related to earth aside, because they're actually already calculated : )
What your saying makes a lot of sense to me. as the Sun would be shining onto the earth not opposite in a sign. Your a genius! I'm fascinated in your study and hope to hear more from you Aleth3ia. I appreciate your in depth reply.
Thankyou Kindly ..Luney
 
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