Wood and Metal

skati

Member
First off, I just want to say that I'm not sure if I'm posting this in the right section. If it has to be moved, so be it.

Just in case anyone isn't familiar with them, wood and metal are elements in Chinese Astrology.

A while back, I had read that Western Astrologers consider Wood to be a "combined element/material" of the elements Fire and Water. The same place also mentions that Metal is a "combined element/material" of the elements Air and Earth.

Well, the site I read this on was Wikipedia. I'm sure most of us here know how easy it is to go on that site and put in...well, almost whatever we want.

My question here is this. Have any of you heard of such a thing? And if so, could you please clarify and/or post a link that clarifies this?

I have tried googling it, but to no avail.

Thanks in advance.
 

smilingsteph

Well-known member
The affinity relationship means supporting, helping, producing, etc.
  • Water can help tree (Wood) grow.
  • Wood can help Fire to burn.
  • Fire can help to produce dust (Earth).
  • Earth can help mineral (Metal) to form.
  • Metal can hold Water.
We can say that :-
  • Water is the supporting element of Wood. Wood can release the power of Water.
  • Wood is the supporting element of Fire. Fire can release the power of Wood.
  • Fire is the supporting element of Earth. Earth can release the power of Fire.
  • Earth is the supporting element of Metal. Metal can release the power of Earth.
  • Metal is the supporting element of Water. Water can release the power of Metal.
The enmity relationship means fighting, conflicting, rejecting, etc.
  • Water can extinguish Fire, but Fire might evaporate Water.
  • Wood can break the ground (Earth), but Earth can buries Wood too.
  • Fire can melt Metal, but Metal might not melt before Fire is extinguished.
  • Earth can absorb Water, but Water can cover the land (Earth).
  • Metal can cut Wood, but Metal might become dull before breaking Wood.
We can say that :-
  • Water and Fire are enemies. Water overwhelms the movement of Fire.
  • Wood and Earth are enemies. Wood overwhelms the movement of Earth.
  • Fire and Metal are enemies. Fire overwhelms the movement of Metal.
  • Earth and Water are enemies. Earth overwhelms the movement of Water.
  • Metal and Wood are enemies. Metal overwhelms the movement of Wood.
Meshing these entities together, I see that I can apply this to relating with others (gemini and mercury in third house) I think that if you can see another as an element then you can work the element to fit into the pattern of social behaviors. Well that is my idea.

http://www.chinesefortunecalendar.com/5EBasic.htm

Interested to know why you are looking, as this is a neat conceptual pathway.
 

skati

Member
Honestly, I'm working on a game and short stories, as well as role playing, based in my game world. In it, I have four types of people: normal people, ki/chi users (think your kung fu masters, but give them the ability to fire energy blasts made of ki/chi), mages, and elementals.

I have a whole big thing explaining the elementals. The biggest thing with them, though, is that the element they gain control of depends on the zodiac sign they are born under. In the case of cusps, it can be an element of either sign, a mixed element, or aether (lightning, which is used interchangably with aether, light, and shadow/darkness).

At the moment, my list of official elements are fire, water, earth (aspects being stone, which is earth itself, metal, and wood, which actually includes all of flora), air, aether (lightning, light, and darkness), ice (water and air cusps), magma (fire and earth cusps), dust (sand, air and earth cusps), and steam (fire and water cusps).

I'll use myself as an example, as I'm a Scorpio (water) and Saggitarius (fire) cusp...well, that and I based my character off myself, including the cusp.

So, for my character, his element could be either water, fire, steam, or one of the aether elements.

However, looking at it from a game perspective, I've been thinking of going with what Wikipedia had to say about wood and metal (what I mentioned in my first post). However, it's not something I want to change unless it is something that is actually legitamately recognized.

Also, thanks for replying smilingsteph.
 

smilingsteph

Well-known member
Very cool! You have really placed a lot of thought into this! I hope it all works out, keep me posted!
I hope others that know a bit more about chinese astrology can help.
I would consider even placing this under Karmic Astrology.
 

skati

Member
I'll post here what was on Wikipedia. These were on the classical elements page of Wood and Metal and have yet to be changed....but, you know, it's Wikipedia...not like they are the all powerful source of legitamate knowledge or anything.

In Chinese thought, Wood attributes are considered to be strength and flexibility, as with bamboo. It is also associated with qualities of warmth, generosity, co-operation and idealism. The Wood person will be expansive, outgoing and socially conscious. The wood element is one that seeks always to grow and expand. Wood heralds the beginning of life, springtime and buds, sensuality and fecundity. Wood needs moisture to thrive.

In Chinese medicine, wood is associated with negative feelings of anger or depression, and positive feelings of patience and altruism. Organs associated with this element are the liver (yin) and the gall bladder (yang), the eyes and the tendons.
In Chinese astrology wood is included in the 10 heavenly stems (the five elements in their yin and yang forms), which combine with the 12 earthly branches (or Chinese signs of the zodiac), to form the 60 year cycle. Yang wood years end in 4 (eg 1974), while Yin years end in 5 (eg 1975). Wood governs the Chinese zodiac signs Tiger, Rabbit, Horse, and Dragon.

Although it traditionally is not included in the Western scheme of elements, some western astrologers have suggested that wood should be recognised as a 'combined element' or 'material' derived from Fire and Water; just as Jupiter rules the Fire sign of Sagittarius and the Water sign of Pisces.


In Chinese astrology metal is included in the 10 heavenly stems (the five elements in their yin and yang forms), which combine with the 12 earthly branches (or Chinese signs of the zodiac), to form the 60 year cycle. Yang metal years end in 0 (eg 1990), while Yin years end in 1 (eg 1991). Metal governs the Chinese zodiac signs Monkey, Rooster, Sheep and Dog.

In Chinese astrology the planet Venus is associated with metal, because it is white in color (the chinese color of death), and rises in the west as the evening star. [1] However, some Western astrologers have stated that the associations of metal are closer to the Western conception of the planet Saturn, and have suggested on that basis recognizing metal in Western astrology as a 'Combined Element' or 'Material' derived from Air and Earth; just as the planet Saturn rules the Air sign Aquarius and the Earth sign Capricorn.


Also, thanks for the encouragement. I also have down stuff about where their power comes from, what specifically gives them their power (though only one person in the actual game world knows...and anyone he decides to share that knowledge with), things like that. I've also managed to work in Paracelsus' elementals, as well add a few of my own. Lots and lots of background, story info.
 

Pallas-trine-Mars

Well-known member
charmvirgo said:
I would class anything solid, real and practical (like metal) as being earth element and the element of earth can be infinately practical to produce any substance known in the universe as well as hold water.

I would not agree that ice is not the only result of air/water cusps. The wind can blow warm or cold, so the ice is not a specific factor. Air/water probably governs weather conditions and systems which are infinately variable and unpredicatable.
This isn't Indo-European astrology, this is Chinese astrology and in Chinese astrology there are 5 elements not 4.

Mars: Fire
Mercury: Water (Earth in Vedic)
Saturn: Earth (Air in Vedic for some reason)
Jupiter: Wood/Life (Æther in Vedic)
Venus: Metal (esp. Gold; Water in Vedic)

(According to Wikipedia, that's the order of how the elements defeat one another, restarting with metal being destroyed by fire. Otherwise the order goes Fire, Earth, Metal, Water, Wood then restarts.)

Yin: Moon
Yang: Sun
 
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skati

Member
Originally Posted by charmvirgo
I would class anything solid, real and practical (like metal) as being earth element and the element of earth can be infinately practical to produce any substance known in the universe as well as hold water.

I would not agree that ice is not the only result of air/water cusps. The wind can blow warm or cold, so the ice is not a specific factor. Air/water probably governs weather conditions and systems which are infinately variable and unpredicatable.


I'm not sure where this particular post came from, but it brings up something for me to respond to.

I hear what you're saying about air/water cusps, but here's the thing. I'm doing just single elements, not a group like weather. Weather is more a group of different elements doing different things: rain (water), hail (ice), storms (lightning), tornadoes (air), etc.

Ice itself also consists of freezing cold in general, not just icicles, glaciers, and other solid forms of ice.

The only other singular thing I could think of for air/water cusps was cloud, but I don't quite know how cloud would work for someone fighting. At least with steam (fire/water cusp), you could still burn someone if you get the steam hot enough.

Pallas, I knew metal and wood were Chinese astrology. What I was trying to do was find a way to merge Western and Chinese together here, since the Chinese have elements we westerners don't consider. For the most part, I think I did an ok job with that.
 

jiasha

Member
There have been theories about which Chinese elements correspond to which in Greek astrology, but none of them makes sense logically, so I think we can as well ignore them..
 
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