Deceptive people..

Claire19

Well-known member
Polo said:
Would you classify someone as being deceptive if they didn't give you a clear picture of themselves?


As in, although they don't lie, they don't give you anything to go on.
You mean lying by omission??? Sometimes these people dont have a clear picture of themselves either. :confused:
 

Claire19

Well-known member
Moulin said:
I know a few people with Neptune in 1st conjunct asc and l can honestly say they are not deceptive!!

they are far more likely to be hoodwinked by another that hoodwink someone else!!!!

Anyone else agree?

In fact l think Neptune in 1st conjunct ASC is more likely to imply psychic ability, no?

Malice belongs to Pluto and Scorpio. Neptune and Pisces tend to be kind and compassionate and often victims due to their indiscriminate sense of charity and sympathy.
 

Quetzlcoatl

Active member
Yeh, I tend to go with the Neptune influence.

The past two women I dated were incredibly manipulative and pathological liars: Pam: 3/22/53 (Snake), and Lisa: 3/23/59 (Boar). Don't have birth times for either. I'm 2/1/58 (Rooster), 5:42 AM, Dayton, Ohio.

Both those girls had been raised primarily by very controlling, abusive fathers, and they basically grew up to behave like a stereotypical "guy": whatever they wanted to do was OK, and they would say or do anything to wiggle out of taking responsibility for their actions.

Another thing I noticed was that they were ALL concerned about every stray cat or low-life that needed help; but when it came to us and our relationship they were AOL: "you're on your own, boy".

Fear seems to be a huge percentage in terms of explanation of their behavior: the cornered animal.

there sure are a lot of smart people on this site, and very kind and caring. I'm glad I stumbled across it.
 
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Astrologer4U

Well-known member
Nexus7 said:
I could not be sure of his 'level' then, but the red flags started to fly when he told me that two other people I knew had stolen CD's from him. I did not know much about their charts, but they just did not seem to be the type of people who would steal. Whereas he....

Later on, I noticed that one or two cassettes of mine had disappeared after visitng him, then he started to cadge from me.

The cassettes were not great los, but I found out that he had borrowed a great deal of money from one or two others and swindled another out of a good deal of merchandise.

On the positive side, Picses are great people and mean you no harm, but on the negative side, they are great foolers. They fool themselves first, and then they fool you. Almost every Piscean I know who is on the negative side, goes around saying what people have done to them, the poor me and victim syndrome. Next thing you know, they have robbed you blind and left you for dead. After it becomes obvious what they have done, you know, when the Neptune fog lifts, you confront them just for them to almost fool you again, making you think they could do no such thing to you. Afterwards, if you don't come from out of the haze they have left you, they have you going around thinking that you are crazy and that you probably just lost the best friend you could have ever counted on. Thank God for Astrology becuase after finding out about the Pisces, and observing them up close and personal, I don't fall into anymore of their traps.
 

allie_b

Well-known member
Playing the victim, doing the "pity poor me"? This is a red flag for personality disorders, especially BPD and HPD (PERSONALITY DISORDERS not SUN SIGN PISCES).

You don't have to have Pisces energy to have a personality disorder. They're fairly common (about 1/3 of the population).

Sorry, but you just can't brand Pisces solely, with this behavior.

Quetzlcoatl said:
:eek:
Gee, you know Lisa and Pam. You just described every Pisces I ever dated. I was just getting ready to go out with another one; but I think I'll just swear-off dating Pisceans FOR THE REST OF MY LIFE!
 
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Astrologer4U

Well-known member
allie_b said:
Playing the victim, doing the "pity poor me"? This is a red flag for personality disorders, especially BPD and HPD (PERSONALITY DISORDERS not SUN SIGN PISCES).

You don't have to have Pisces energy to have a personality disorder. They're fairly common (about 1/3 of the population).

Sorry, but you just can't brand Pisces solely, with this behavior.


allie_b, we are talking Astrology here and I am sorry to say, on the negative side, Pisces do have the poor me victim issue. On the positive side, Pisces don't have the poor me victim issue, but they do have the savior sacrafice issue which in this lifte time, seeks to be balanced. Can't save them all so why turn into a sacraficial lamb in order to rescue those who don't want to be saved. Balanced Pisces are balanced and therefore lacking in the saverity of the above mentioned issues... poor me victim, and savior self sacraficial roles.
 
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Well heres the chart of professional con man who lies to exhort money from women.....

Typically mercury conj neptune 1st house well hidden behind Scorpio Asc, gives nothing away, even from eyes....

Mars trine Jupiter, mars late 2nd conj 3rd. Saturn is square mars on wide orb, gemini moon in 8th house of other peoples money. Gemini/mutable moon gives ability to love more than one person at same time...

Sun libra conj asc, smoooooth talker, charming, fascinating, duplicitious
Neptune quincunxed moon from 1st to 8th

See what you think, it seems to embody all that has been said so far.
 
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Astrologer4U

Well-known member
astrologer50 said:
Well heres the chart of professional con man who lies to exhort money from women.....

Typically mercury conj neptune 1st house well hidden behind Scorpio Asc, gives nothing away, even from eyes....

Mars trine Jupiter, mars late 2nd conj 3rd. Saturn is square mars on wide orb, gemini moon in 8th house of other peoples money. Gemini/mutable moon gives ability to love more than one person at same time...

Sun libra conj asc, smoooooth talker, charming, fascinating, duplicitious
Neptune quincunxed moon from 1st to 8th

See what you think, it seems to embody all that has been said so far.


I think you are absolutely correct :D
 

allie_b

Well-known member
In order to be a good astrologer you have to have a good grasp on psychology.

Balanced people (not just Pisces) are balanced. Unbalanced people (including those Sun signs who have personality disorders) are unbalanced, needless to say.

My point is: it may be a stereotype of Pisces but it is not exclusive to Pisces. The dynamic of victimhood belongs to no particular Sun sign.


Astrologer4U said:
allie_b, we are talking Astrology here and I am sorry to say, on the negative side, Pisces do have the poor me victim issue. On the positive side, Pisces don't have the poor me victim issue, but they do have the savior sacrafice issue which in this lifte time, seeks to be balanced. Can't save them all so why turn into a sacraficial lamb in order to rescue those who don't want to be saved. Balanced Pisces are balanced and therefore lacking in the saverity of the above mentioned issues... poor me victim, and savior self sacraficial roles.
 
I would also view as suspicious mercury in pisces or mutable signs, and/ or mutable on Asc, mutable moons, espec 12th house.

Highest on list would be mercury/neptune (which i have heard is also rather good for mimicary & humour) acting the part if you like...
 

Astrologer4U

Well-known member
allie_b said:
In order to be a good astrologer you have to have a good grasp on psychology.

Balanced people (not just Pisces) are balanced. Unbalanced people (including those Sun signs who have personality disorders) are unbalanced, needless to say.

My point is: it may be a stereotype of Pisces but it is not exclusive to Pisces. The dynamic of victimhood belongs to no particular Sun sign.


Bottom line, Poor me, Victim and Self Sacrafice, are Neptunian, Piscean traits... Weather it be the Sun Moon, Asc, 12th house or aspects to. That all came from the wise words of a good Astrologer. :D


Added: One more thing, a real rule to being a good Astrologer, is not to take things personally and to also learn how to accept the good, as well as the bad. If you don't accept, how else can you work towards positive change?
 
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StarNur

Well-known member
I cant see someone with Neptune in the 1st having a "malicious intent".. Could be deceptive without realizing to a point...even deceiving themselves.

How about Neptune in the 3rd house of communication square Mercury Rx in Libra in the 12th house!! I know someone with this, and he lies like no tomorrow...he totally has people fooled, including his family. I dont think he lies to be malicious either, but possibly to cover up his low self confidence/image or less favourable traits?
 

wildflowers

New member
Quetzlcoatl,

I just want to point out that what these two woman from your past have in common are actually:

Sun: Aries
Venus: Taurus

This would be an indicator of behaving more like the typical "guy" perhaps.
and lend to charging ahead with their own agenda foremost on their minds.

With the information you provided,
only one (Boar) has significant Neptune aspect to personal planets
with an opposition to Venus.
The other (Snake) does not.

Those who are manipulative, pathological liars who cannot take responsibility for their actions with the severity you seem to imply--
like someone else stated here--
those are traits associated with disorders.

Traits I wouldn't stereotypically ascribe to Aries, Taurus, Neptune....
you get the picture. that would just be bad astrology.

Quetzlcoatl said:
Yeh, I tend to go with the Neptune influence.

The past two women I dated were incredibly manipulative and pathological liars: Pam: 3/22/53 (Snake), and Lisa: 3/23/59 (Boar). Don't have birth times for either. I'm 2/1/58 (Rooster), 5:42 AM, Dayton, Ohio.

Both those girls had been raised primarily by very controlling, abusive fathers, and they basically grew up to behave like a stereotypical "guy": whatever they wanted to do was OK, and they would say or do anything to wiggle out of taking responsibility for their actions.

Another thing I noticed was that they were ALL concerned about every stray cat or low-life that needed help; but when it came to us and our relationship they were AOL: "you're on your own, boy".

Fear seems to be a huge percentage in terms of explanation of their behavior: the cornered animal.

there sure are a lot of smart people on this site, and very kind and caring. I'm glad I stumbled across it.
 

Astrologer4U

Well-known member
StarNur said:
I cant see someone with Neptune in the 1st having a "malicious intent".. Could be deceptive without realizing to a point...even deceiving themselves.

How about Neptune in the 3rd house of communication square Mercury Rx in Libra in the 12th house!! I know someone with this, and he lies like no tomorrow...he totally has people fooled, including his family. I dont think he lies to be malicious either, but possibly to cover up his low self confidence/image or less favourable traits?


Good point but never the less, he is deceptive. There is nothing positive about being deceptive unless someone is holding you captive and you need to decieve your way out. If he has low self esteem issues, all of the energy he puts into decieving people, he should focus that energy towards building up his self esteem. It is malicious to make excuses for yourself, especially when you have not positively worked towards making positive change about your personal self image. In this case, he is the only one who is holding his self captive, no one else. The fish needs to come out of dream world and get back to reality, he needs to ground his self in reality and stop using escape methods.
 

dreamtimez

Well-known member
gaer said:
It's very different for me. With Virgo rising but no planets in Virgo and no planets in the 1st, people say I give a very negative impression when they meet me because I am very quiet and reserved. But not with people I know well.

I hate lies. I never meant that I liked to be lied to. But it is also true that I have a very hard time accepting the world as it is. I always think about how it could be, if people were more intelligent, wiser, kinder…

When I was young, I tried to adapt to what I thought other people wanted me to be. Or at least hid what did not fit their expectations.

I always admired people who didn't care about what other people think, although some go much too far in that direction. At this point I simply prefer to be alone rather than to be around anyone who does not like me as I am. :)



Hmm ... I could relate to that very well :)
 

matter1022

New member
I was born with a very deceptive nature if I choose to use someones trust for my own means... I talk so much and always try to admit I'm not 100% sure about anything simply because people tend to agree more when you bring yourself down in front of them (admit any fault or wrongness works well too) The thing is, I tell the truth most of all the time so when I do lie, it glides through most all radars.. I will always try to lie with the truth when I can because the truth part sugar coats it...

Now, is it out of bad intentions, practical purposes of self-interest/protection, liking the sound of my voice.... I don't understand fully, or at least not all the time is it clear to me if my lies are real so in turn they become truth to me and I can project that through my eyes by thinking the word "love" while looking at someone.. (this also worked well when Id con my ex-girlfriend to leave 4 guys and come back to me, I really loved her but I used my con nature to my ends.... not hers).

Yeah, I am a novice of astrological jargon so I just wanted to throw some raw emotion out there about absolute guiltless lies that con people may or not believe as truth to just con even more..

have a nice day1
 

IWDWSWLM

Well-known member
matter1022 said:
I was born with a very deceptive nature if I choose to use someones trust for my own means... I talk so much and always try to admit I'm not 100% sure about anything simply because people tend to agree more when you bring yourself down in front of them (admit any fault or wrongness works well too) The thing is, I tell the truth most of all the time so when I do lie, it glides through most all radars.. I will always try to lie with the truth when I can because the truth part sugar coats it...

Now, is it out of bad intentions, practical purposes of self-interest/protection, liking the sound of my voice.... I don't understand fully, or at least not all the time is it clear to me if my lies are real so in turn they become truth to me and I can project that through my eyes by thinking the word "love" while looking at someone.. (this also worked well when Id con my ex-girlfriend to leave 4 guys and come back to me, I really loved her but I used my con nature to my ends.... not hers).

Yeah, I am a novice of astrological jargon so I just wanted to throw some raw emotion out there about absolute guiltless lies that con people may or not believe as truth to just con even more..

have a nice day1

That was actually a very informative post and I appreciate you sharing it.

I actually used to go out with someone who used to do exactly what you do. I rarely fell for it because I'm naturally a suspicious person, so I pick up small cues of deception very well.

But i must admit this person was very very good at the deception game. I also find it interesting that this person was a Scorpio.
 

Astrodawn

Well-known member
Moulin said:
In fact l think Neptune in 1st conjunct ASC is more likely to imply psychic ability, no?

I agree Moulin, my sun has neptune conjunct asc exact and he seems to be very psychic, he reads me constantly and sometimes answers what Im thinking and has done this since being a baby (hes 12 now)

I wouldnt like to think he was going to be very gulliable - although again he shows signs of that too!
 

matter1022

New member
Thank you.. I'm always glad to be able to share my thoughts & opinions with someone that will listen, regardless of their nature of what I say.. I actually believe honesty is the the best policy next to complete acceptance of what happens to me. Yet, I do use the trust people have in me (and let me know I have it) in deceitful ways under a variety of circumstances that range from justifiable to pointless...

1.) Revenge: If I actually feel so wronged, so shorted in a situation, then sadly to say their are no boundries to the amount of deception I will use to get their trust so I can betray it when it will hurt most or manipulate them to my amussment or benifit w/out them even knowing sometimes until I tell them. Guilt tripping is manipulation at iis most innocent because it comes natural to ask for what you feel is owed from being wronged (which feels like being stolen from). However, guilt tripping is also one of the most powerful uses of deception if you are good at communicating and transforming your thoughts into someone elses emotions; if done right it can cause someone to try really hard (and do almost anything in context) to repay the emotional debt to you which is real, exagerated or just maniputaion. In my mind, I've rationalized that I am returning the energy the gave to me by betraying my trust first (revenge is cause and effect) I wouldn't go way out of my way to hurt someone's feelings unless I thought they deserved it or wanted to teach them a lesson to make myself feel better or for entertainment.. When they show anger that is stereotypical and impulsive, it is them loosing their control and giving it to me.

"If someone can make you angry, you are letting them have power over you." - not sure where I heard this

2.) Giving the Upper-Hand: Sometimes I like to make it appear to someone they have an advatage of some kind, is more intellegent/skilled, or just reinforce an existing supiority complex of theirs. The reason for this is always to give myself the upper-hand and control in groups, competition or relationships (usually with strangers or a friend that has ego falling out of their mouth when they talk). By creating a push-over, vunrable, dumb or any kind of inferior perspective in the eyes of the beholder I'm dealing with I've had them reveal their intentions, bias & worries, disclose secrets, bad-mouth others, etc.. But usually its just to keep them assuming that they have me fiqured out, bested, outsmarted or are better than me somehow. This is what Lee Atwater called "Slow talking," If they choose to beleive/accept they some how have the upper-hand by assuming something about me which is false or misleading, an assumtion I gave them or reinforced, it is likely they can let their gaurd down and give me info like I said or in a competative situation (not always sports) they become more predictable and give me the chance to anticipate thier choices by making them think they know mine... I know that was probably way to wordy when I could have said "trap." But it's more than that to me, its like watching a blind folded person run into a tree because you told them to go thata-way. This is like playing chess or swordfighting (two things I like doing too). I don't do this often because it's just easier to be honest and butt-heads with someone than to play puppet master... So out of my own questionable morality, I only mind-scew someone for my entertainment or someone's need to feel in charge more than to only pull on over on someone... But I am guilty of using from time to time and am not always guiltless about it. I don't condone using people as a means to an end, only to return the energy given...

3.) Just Pointless: self-centered lies like white lies and excuses are what I am the most quilty of on a weekly basis. I guess its just my recreation from usually trying to tell the truth about my thougts and feelings and connect with people by accepting them no matter what.. When I am getting bored from a lack of conversation that has little interest on their end, I choose to slip fictional things just to see how they react to sometimes outlandish ideas or situations while talking about real events and feelings of similar natures or topics. No point but to work on improvising really. Finally there are excusses which in my eyes are the attempts to change the disaproval of someone I'm telling my excuse to into acceptance and sometimes sympathy if I am really trying to cover my ***... I usually tell the truth of what happened and accept that I am responsible for not doing what they wanted or was expecting even if I didn't want to hurt their feelings if I did.. When I want to change the convo in my favor I will use and sometimes exageraate every fact that supports me not having any fault in how I ended up in their disaproval or at their mercy.. I'll create a fake account of the same truth in question to make the one in disaproval identify strongly, reevaluate and agree how uncontrolable the event I was being held responsible for is. Simply put, I try to get someone to agree that what I'm saying is clearly not of my choice and unfortunate.. If I'm lucky, what was the disaproval of someone is now a mild bonding and acceptance of what I said (a lie) as an experience they relate with and forgive me for. My personal best excuse was when I got pulled over for swerving. I had been changing the CD and wasn't paying attention as I should have been. The officer asked the question which is aimed at the reason or observed truth of why the officer is talking to you... "Do you know why I pulled you over?" I apologized for the obvious swerving and near accident with a car in the next lane and said, "I started to sneeze in the turning lane.." I took the drunken breath test and was on my way without even a verbal warning.

So, astrology and how I attribute deception to it. Based on descriptions I really agree with strongly as being ever present personality traits of mine due to being born on Oct. 22 (...1986 at 8:56 P.M. New Ulm, MN... anyone is welcomed to help me use that info to learn more) I am a Libra-Scorpio Cusp.. I am a natural communicator with an accute awareness of the reality I observe and want as much as possible to to be the best at what I choose to apply my energy into. My emotions are super strong and obvious to me as the occur due to my mental apptitudes which will disagree with my intuativness sometimes and although I'm aware of the stuggle, choosing a course of action usually takes one of two paths I can't always see coming.. a dark and chaotic one or balanced loving one. So that being said, I choose deception as one option of two I have. The path of service to others and connecting with others (especially through dedicated romance of serious passion) is the path I like to try and occupy myself with simply because I like the golden rule as a way of life, its balanced. However, there is another path that I have always been interested in probing on and off since childhood which I now know as Via Combusta. I will burn through all of my life's craziness, which there has always been tons of, only to continue burning as trials and lessons shape my perspective everyday..

I love talking about how I experience life and in reality, I accept both paths as my path because only after accepting without any judgements of there being a good reality or bad reality can I truely consider myself accepting.. So as I continue to evaluate my reality and all that is apart of it Ill take the good with a slap in the face and the bad with lick of salt and just continue regardless, Via Combusta. Its just as positive as negative in my life, an idea to direct choice.

Have a nice day
 
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estrella

Well-known member
Astrodawn said:
I agree Moulin, my sun has neptune conjunct asc exact and he seems to be very psychic, he reads me constantly and sometimes answers what Im thinking and has done this since being a baby (hes 12 now)

I wouldnt like to think he was going to be very gulliable - although again he shows signs of that too!

I've seen Neptune manifest itself in varying ways. I know someone with Neptune conjunct ascendant in opposition to Jupiter on the cusp of the 7th- who is in no way a con person. She is very gullible though, especially with regard to her relationship.

I've seen Neptune in dicey aspect act as sort of a blind spot in the person's personality. In my friends case, her blind spot is her con-man husband that is milking her for every dime he can.

She is also interested in mysticism and the occult, and she is psychically sensitive to spirits-all things related to her Neptune rising.
 
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