prenatal influences on future chart

pwadm

Staff member
Hi there

I'd like to start up a discussion on this topic - could events during the pregnancy determine or at least influence the future life of that person (and inherently the natal chart).

Consider this - 9 months of pregnancy - 90 years of human life - that would relate every month of prenatal life with 10 years of life.

For instance, some books affirm that an excess of testosterone (male hormone) during the 6-8 weeks of pregnancy may lead to homosexual tendences. This period (1.5 - 2 months) could be related to the teenage period of life, according to the above theory.
In my family, my mother's activities during pregnancy relate pretty well to my and my sister's personality and destiny.

In astrology we could identify Lilith which travels 1 sign in 9 months.
Is Lilith the hidden link between the natal and prenatal life?
Lilith's symbolismhttp://www.mariashaw.com/starscopes/2003-05/lilith.html relate quite well to how a conscious human being may experience the life 'in utero', inside mother's womb: it's a dark place, where the little being is powerless, exposed to many influences, relying only on the mother.

I would like to explore this path with you, if interested.
 
Hi Radu,

I have just got this book by A.T Mann called the Divine Life Astrology and Reincarnation, you already know about the dates he has given for past lives which were planets in signs/degree. I read about it on a thread. Not long after I found his book, which combines two of his books.

Anyway back to the question of could events in pregnancy determine or even influence the life of that person and their chart.

Not sure if you have read about this before I might be repeating information you already know. A.T Mann focuses on life time astrology, it is really interesting there are Archetypal ages of houses, what age represents each part of the chart, and the planets situated in your houses can determine when events are triggered in your life. There is a life time astrology timescale table in the book you can date ages by determining the number of degrees of a planet or other point is from the ascendant.

Your Gestation is represented in the chart. The octave of gestation begins with conception on the ninth house cusp and ends at birth on the ascendant (first cusp), during which time the body is created in the mother. During gestation the foetus repeats the entire evolutionary process from a one-celled ovum to being fully human at birth. Hereditary characteristics combine to determine the qualities, shape and health of the body. In gestation influences are transmitted through the mother to the developing child and are carried somatically within the physical body.

9th House cusp Conception to + 7 wks 240-270-Degrees-Mothers self realisation

10th + 7wks to + 12wks 270-300-Degrees-Recognition of conception

11th + 12ks+ to 22wks 300-330-Degrees-Idealism and planning

12th +22wks to birth 330-360-Degrees-Isolation and sacrifice

A.T.Mann considers putting a biological time with astrology creates a revolutionary picture of the whole life. A valuable tool in psychotherapy, healing , psychiatry, the raising of children, in relationships and work on the self and individual awareness for personal growth.

He says we reconstruct the events of gestation from the mothers point of view, and the long forgotten events of early childhood, together with people who participated in or caused them. We look at both the outer and the inner psychology in the horoscope in symbolic form.

In each house all previous development is assimilated and integrated into the higher level of awareness and consciousness, and psychic energy is transferred to ever higher levels. Eventually we can learn to transcend the birth chart.

I am still in the process of reading it when I find the time, with looking after a baby myself so I will be looking at my sons chart.

A.T Mann states in the book. The process of life begins at conception, the only true beginning of life. The importance of this earliest time of life cannot be overstated.

To attain a larger perspective and to transcend time, we must understand the peaks and troughs, the incidents that counterpoint the ebb and flow, and the people who interweave their lives in ours. To be whole, we must reconstruct our life from conception to the grave.

Miss S
 
It's strange how we can be thinking the same ideas, I was thinking about bringing this subject up and the whole life time astrology theory. There have been other ideas I have thought to bring up as well and then when I look on the forum someone else has asked the same question or idea.

Miss S
 

carnna

Member
in the old ways, what is called "medievel astrology" in these times, used:
saturn ruled 1st month, Jupiter 2nd, sun 3rd, mars 4th, venus 5th, mercury 6th, saturn 7th, jupiter 8th, sun 9th and mars 10th (should the pregnancy last the full 10 months).

The prenatal SAN (full moon or New moon prior to birth) is used in many (if not all) of the techniques and is significant in the natal chart.
 

Arian Maverick

Well-known member
It's strange how we can be thinking the same ideas, I was thinking about bringing this subject up and the whole life time astrology theory. There have been other ideas I have thought to bring up as well and then when I look on the forum someone else has asked the same question or idea.

Miss S

Yes, I agree...I spent quite a bit of time this weekend attempting to construct my conception chart through the Truitine of Hermes. I wonder if any current transits or progressions to the forum creation chart would explain this sudden collective interest? ;)

Arian Maverick
 

Howl

Well-known member
Would prenatal solar and lunar eclipses qualify for this thread? I have just been introduced to mine, and have been ferreting out information :)

Has anyone else had a close look at their eclipses? Here is what confuses me about mine.

17/07/81.|..1S.|.24º31' Capricorn...|.Partial.Lunar.|
31/07/81.|..1N.|.07º51' Leo...........|.Total...Solar.|
09/01/82.|..1N.|.19º14' Cancer......|.Total...Lunar.|

Do I consider the first lunar eclipse, even if it's before the prenatal solar eclipse, or do I look only at the second one, which is after my birth?

The first one is tighly conjunct my South Node, and also Part of Fortune. The second one is conjunct my North Node. I may have missed some of the logic of these eclipses, but it that common?

What would you consider the significance of a prenatal lunar eclipse conjunct PoF and SNode? My guess, using common definitions, is that it's (deeply ingrained karmic pattern) associated with (prosperity/earned fortune) and (again, deeply ingrained karmic pattern). However, SNode and PoF are thought to indicate more things you already have, or can rely on, and the lunar eclipse more of a lesson, or qualities to 'take on'. Why are so many things squatting on this point?

If you consider the cappie lunar eclipse valid, it forms a grand earth trine with natal mars (the 'key planet' - or first planet following PNSE) and taurus chiron. As I have very little earth in my chart, this seems significant.

Any ideas, observations? :)
 

Howl

Well-known member
I have another question, which I fear may reveal my ignorance of pregnancy :)

As I shared the womb with my twin brother, would I have been exposed to more testosterone than a female fetus usually would? (No - I'm not hairy and my adam's apple is perfectly normal for a woman. I promise I won't take offense if you discuss testosterone and myself in the same sentence...)

I don't see how being a twin, a significant prenatal experience, is indicated in my chart. The only thing I can think of is having a gemini moon :) Any thoughts? My chart is below, if you'd like a peek.
 
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Howl

Well-known member
Ahah, I think my theory is right! Sharing with my brother means that I am more likely to have been exposed to more testosterone than otherwise. This link (although I wouldn't rely on it entirely) suggests so, at least.

http://www.lrainc.com/swtaboo/stalkers/em_prnat.html

The other stuff that came up in my search moves very quickly into the murky waters of being 'born gay', etc :)

I'm not particularly concerned with testosterone, but I am interested in the fact that having a twin brother is a prenatal condition clearly likely to have affected me on many levels, and I wonder if any of this seems indicated in my natal chart? I don't see it myself...
 

Manic_Monday

Well-known member
Isn't the date of conception the real 'birth' date? I mean, it's the date you're beginning to exist.
Too bad you can't really retrieve the moment of conception.
 

pwadm

Staff member
Impossible to tell when the 'conception' took place: technically it's a union between 2 cells that happens inside the female body anytime during the 24 hrs after the intercourse, even if the time of the latter is known...
 

Elansome

Well-known member
Hi Radu!
You are quite right to think that way. Here is also another astrolog presented the same kind of theory that the destiny is actually coded at the moment of conception, or in other words when the egg receive the sperm. So he claimes that the transitions of the mother's chart at the time of conception are also important. Furthermore he says that he examined more than thousands charts and as a result he says for a healthy baby Chiron, Jupiter and Nort Nodes can't be afflicted by any hard transits or aspects.
His website is www.astromistik.com. However it is in Turkish. So I will translate it here.
I talked to him and also my personal story, that I exactly know the time, proved his theory. Also in this way we can explain some of the situations that seem hard to understand such as handicapped people with a chart that has no clue about it.
So the main point is everything is up to the moment that we have been concived in our mother's womb in relation to their chart. That also explains why two people who have the same birth data have different destinies.

Interesting?
Jasmine
 

pwadm

Staff member
This is interesting!

In this case, there is a part of our destiny that will be occulted at any moment because there's no way to tell when the exact meeting of the ovule with the spermatosoid actually took place.

Jasmine, please clarify for me these points: did this www.astromistik.com astrologer (btw, beautiful!) studied 1000 conception charts (also please define the exact meaning of conception time) and found that Jupiter, Chiron and the North Node from the conception chart shouldn't be afflicted for a healthy baby (does it refer to the prenatal period and/or also to the actual life?).

I'd be intersted to know some more, so if the study you read also mentioned other information, please tell us. Thank you!
 

Elansome

Well-known member
Hi Radu!

That is not the astrolog! She is his wife :)
Anyway according to his theory if you know the day that you conceived it is ok. He does'nt ask the exact time. But it is often being night time anyway :)
The couples who are trying to have a baby usually happen to know the time. Because a woman actually can conceive in 2 days in a month. Also as far as I know he has some friends, phsycians who are able to calculate the conception day. Even fast planets like Moon that stay in the same sign for 2 days that would allow you see the hard angles. I don't know why you need to know the minute. Yes we are also talking about the baby's life in the future that is being determined by the time it is created. The penetration of sperm into the eggs is being affected by the vibes from the universe. That's the theory.
That's also explain why the same charts would not produce the same kind of life. Because the conception chart would decide what will happen in the baby's life.

In his theory, mother's chart must have its best transit time. Her Moon, Chiron, and especially North Nodes should not be afflicted. If they afflicted by Saturn it means the baby would die or would not have a healthy life. He noted that the affliction by Mars caused miscarriages.


So the rules are here:
1- Transit or natal Jupiter, Chiron and North Nodes must not be afflicted with each other. Orb tolerance is 3 degrees.

2- Transit Saturn in no way must be in a hard aspect with (conj. and square he says) N. Nodes.

3- Transit Nodes and Natal Nodes mustn't be in hard aspect.

For example, a healthy baby, was born on a day that Transit Jupiter and Moon is passing over natal North Nodes. And natal Moon is not afflicted. Also there is a trine between transit North Node and Natal Chiron. He gathers that the baby will be a healthy and successfull one.

He says if everyone aware of the transits and watch the time carefully there would be no bad or unhealthy people in the world.


Now he gives another sample for an unhealthy baby. He comes from a good family but his chart does not say anything about his illness. But his creation time says a lot:(Keep in mind that we are talking about his mother's chart)

1- T. Nodes square N. Nodes.
2- T. Mars on North Node, T. Saturn on South Node square N. Moon. Therefore there is a big square here.
3- At the same time T. Jupiter square T. Chiron that also creates negative energy for the conception which is not a good time.

If you have any further question I can ask him.
I hope this will be helpful
Jasmine
 
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