Discovering my Ruling Planet. Mars, Pluto, or Saturn?

I'm hoping to get an answer from an experienced soul-centered astrologer (esoteric), not necessarily personality based (but also wouldn't mind it).

Since I have Scorpio Rising with Pluto Conjunct Venus in the 12th, some may say that Pluto is my Ruling Planet, exoterically. For the esoteric astrologer, my ruling planet would be Mars in the 2nd house.

However, Saturn is directly conjunct my Ascendant as well. Now according, to Alan Oken, a planet conjunct the ascendant becomes your main Ruling planet. From Edgar Cayce's life readings, the planet at the Zenith (conjunct asc.) or above (conjunct MC) is the most important planet, in my case, Saturn.

Both Pluto and Saturn seem prominent my life, but I would like some insight on which one plays a more significant role in my own Soul development. And when I discover which one is in fact my ruling planet, how do I go about utilizing that energy constructively? What role/impact does the Ruling Planet have on one's life? Also, if you have any suggestions on books or authors who discuss this issue in depth, please let me know.

Here's my birth info. Sept 23, 1984 10:00 am Los Angeles, CA

I have Scorpio Rising 11 Degrees Conjunct Saturn in Scorpio at 13 Degrees.
Venus in Libra 27 Degrees Conjunct Pluto in Scorpio 00 Degrees (12th house)

Sun Libra, Moon Virgo.
Mars Sagittarius

Thanks for your help! I'm really looking forward to some insight.

OK, CJ24, I'm not sure what kind of astrologer I am, but I'm certainly not a `normal' one. I am interested in the psychological motivation of people (I have natal Sun conj Pluto), but more significantly the soul's journey through this lifetime and what they have come to do. There will be different things to do at different times of life. You will not have to go searching - `it' will find you!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As I read your chart, I reckon your Venus-Pluto conjunction is the crux of it all - getting to grips with this can be a lifetime journey. This aspect - and in the 12th also - is so not easy!!! If you're not familiar with this, then here is a really good description:
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/venus-conjunct-pluto.php
Also, you need to be familiar with Moon square Neptune, and Moon square Mars - both will significantly influence your earthly journey.
With Chiron in your 7th house (I use Koch house system, so it may be in 8th using Placidus) your life lessons are all to be played out upon the field of your close relationships, so pay close attention to your `relationship' planets.

I look at planets close to the ascendant as influences before or after birth. Your Saturn is `after birth', and so probably signifies difficulties you had in either staying here - as in within the first few weeks or months of your life. Maybe you were unwell, or had difficulty in thriving for a time. Somehow this experience of coming to the planet has had an influence upon your 3rd house affairs - siblings, one-to-one communication, early education and learning.

And to answer your question. I'd call Pluto your ruling planet, and Venus has a say also, being conj Pluto. This is why I reckon your relationship sector is your area of greatest (potential) learning.

I hope this helps. This is just one person's perspective.

I also would say that Pluto was your ruling planet, but the Traditional astrologers here would prob disagree, cos they dont go beyond Saturn....I'm a modern astrologer and use Equal house system......

There are all types of Astrologers use this forum but mainly fall into Traditional & Western Astrology, the differences are explained here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology

As for the Soul's journey and life mission I would look at North Node and it's sign and house placement. Plus when evaluating Pluto and Saturn strength, you must look at their aspects natally and the houses they are connected to. I don't feel it's as simple as just looking for your chart ruler and it's significance......

Amongst other things, astrology is a wonderful tool for understanding yourself and others better.....enabling us to make better choices in life as we become aware of how our behaviour influences what happens to us through the law of cause and effect. Astrology does not reliably predict the future.......But it can provide an excellent insight into the psychological make-up of people, enabling us to accurately predict their behaviour and it's resultant effects

If you intend to learn about astrology, you will need to begin with a natal chart, it need not necessarily be your own, but many choose to begin this way, in an effort to better understand their own life journey, and purpose. Astrological natal charts are as individual as a persons ‘fingerprints’ depending on where (latitude & longitude) and time of birth.It is important to get your *time of your birth* as this is the most important information.

Here are my personal recommend beginners links to focus upon Natal charts:-
I hope that you come here and want to learn about astrology and join in with exchanges. There ever expanding Education forum here and lots more to explore. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=12556 or try http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TOClessons.htm
http://www.geocities.com/wilsontctc/
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natalastrology.html

House systems
Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp

Thank you both for your help.

Yup relationships...tomorrow will mark my two years of being out of my last relationship. Unfortunately, it played out the Venus Conjunct Pluto in the 12th house theme. My ex was mentally and emotionally abusive, and although i've come a long way, at times i feel like i haven't progressed as much as i'd liked. But I'm getting there. it's just taking a long time. =/

Other than that, I'm learning more and more on how to be more myself, the good and bad, and not try to be everything to everyone all the time, constantly trying to control others' perceptions of me. I am learning to let go of these perfectionist tendencies. As you can probably see my chart is intense and extreme, and sometimes handling all the energy in the chart can be exhausting.

Uranus Square Moon (T-square with Chiron in the 7th)
Neptune Square Sun
Saturn Conjunct Asc in Scorpio
Pluto Conjunct Venus

It's interesting because I'm largely independent. Currently, I am a volunteer working in a third world country on my own away from anything familiar. I'm here to work and be with just myself, but deep down there is this constant need to feel intimately close with someone else. Generally speaking, things have never been that easy for me, but i'm doing my best. If there is anything else in my chart that you think may help guide me on this journey, please let me know. I enjoy reading about what you have to say. thanks =)

The time is from my birth certificate, i've moved it back and forth by 30 minutes in each direction, and the main players and themes still remain relatively constant when I do so.

CJ24 said:

I'm here to work and be with just myself, but deep down there is this constant need to feel intimately close with someone else. Generally speaking, things have never been that easy for me, but i'm doing my best. If there is anything else in my chart that you think may help guide me on this journey, please let me know. I enjoy reading about what you have to say. thanks =)

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The best advice I can give you is to know your weakest traits - i.e. those which lead you to depend upon another for your nurturing/love - and to follow your instincts.

In some ways it's a good thing that you've had a Venus-Pluto conj relationship; at least now you know what the worst of this can be, and hopefully you can read the signs in future. Venus conj Pluto combined with Chiron in the 7th gives you a karmic need to engage in relationships, but these relationships will be with people who - potentially - are wounded and/or wounding. You have a desire to help the sick and wounded, and you would be attracted to lame dogs (Moon squ Neptune). A friend of mine is on her 4th marriage - she has Chiron in 7th - and all her men are wounded and wounding. On a positive note, she has developed an independence (she lives 3 hours drive from husband No 4, and sees him only when she wants to) and an ability to thrive on her own which she didn't have even 5 years ago.

I think your soul has chosen this kind of life for you to strengthen you at your core. Whilst you are now perhaps still dependent upon needing a relationship for yourself, that need will change, and only then will you become more discerning about the types of people you choose to allow to get close to you.

PS: Another thing to take into account is your Scorpio ASC. It tends to act like a Scorpio North Node. i.e. it acts as a lightning rod for all the negativity others carry with them. My son has Scorpio Asc and Scorpio North Node, and he can be walking down the street, and some person (usually drugged or somehow crazy) will shout at him and abuse him. When he was at high school he was on the receiving end of a lot of bullying. He is currently being relentlessly attacked - abused, really - by someone he cannot get away from (lo-ong story), but his dealing with each attack is making him stronger, more in his body, and less troubled by the prospect of another attack. It's been hard for him, but worth it. Perhaps he had a need to develop a thicker skin and a stronger backbone.

thank you R4ven for your help and guidance. =)

I think one of my weakest traits is that I don't think about my needs, they go out the door once the other person needs me. It's funny how you described the type of person I attract. I definitely attract wounded people. I always described my last relationship as helping a wounded stray puppy, and after I nurtured it back to health, it bit me!! hehe I believe that my susceptibility was heightened by the fact that I don't allow myself to be completely 'me' with others. I'm always smoothing things over and not showing how I really feel. I'm scared of people not liking me, so I conform my behavior to be what others want me to be (or what I think they want me to be, which most likely is all in my head).

I need to be able to assert my needs and not be afraid that others will judge me if I express them.

Instincts...yeah, for most of my life I never followed them, I rationalized and intellectualized situations and circumstances. I'm learning more, day by day though, to trust my gut and quiet down the mind.

In my own childhood, I can say that I had some similar experiences as your child. I had two older brothers, who were very militant and ruthless at times. I grew up with such thin skin that people's words would hurt me so easily. I always said that I was the emotional punching bag for my family members, but I took it in and I never reacted negatively or mean. I never wanted to make things worse. But now I've realized that I can't continue to be so overly sensitive and apologetic in my actions. I need to stand my own ground and like you said trust my instincts.

I can't emphasize how much your words speak to me. It cuts at the core of where my behavior patterns lie and how I feel inside. so I thank you for that.

CJ24 said:

thank you R4ven for your help and guidance. =)

I think one of my weakest traits is that I don't think about my needs, they go out the door once the other person needs me. It's funny how you described the type of person I attract.

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Just in case you haven't studied the effects of Moon squ Neptune, then here's a link -
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/moon-square-neptune.php

It's very important that you understand this aspect. Once you recognise the weakness it brings, then you cam begin to capitalise on the strengths it also gives. It can give you an extremely sensitive and instinctual nature - something you really need.

CJ24 said:

I definitely attract wounded people. I always described my last relationship as helping a wounded stray puppy, and after I nurtured it back to health, it bit me!! hehe I believe that my susceptibility was heightened by the fact that I don't allow myself to be completely 'me' with others. ..............

I need to be able to assert my needs and not be afraid that others will judge me if I express them.

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Check out Moon squ Mars -
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/astrological-aspects/moon-square-mars.php

CJ24 said:

In my own childhood, I can say that I had some similar experiences as your child. I had two older brothers, who were very militant and ruthless at times. I grew up with such thin skin that people's words would hurt me so easily. I always said that I was the emotional punching bag for my family members, but I took it in and I never reacted negatively or mean. I never wanted to make things worse. But now I've realized that I can't continue to be so overly sensitive and apologetic in my actions. I need to stand my own ground and like you said trust my instincts.

I can't emphasize how much your words speak to me. It cuts at the core of where my behavior patterns lie and how I feel inside. so I thank you for that.

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I also have the aspects Moon squ Neptune and Moon squ Mars in my natal chart, and a lot of what you describe resonates for me also. I had 3 older brothers who relentlessly bullied me verbally, emotionally and physically throughout my childhood. They even planned and set me up (when I was 4) to being electrocuted by a 32 volt electrical current which passed through a wire around our father's pig yard. I grew up believing this behaviour was normal, and that somehow I deserved it. In early adolescence I was aggressive myself, waiting for the next person to take me on!!
I can honestly say that these two aspects of Mars have contained within then the hardest lessons of my life.

But it does pass, and you do get stronger. I think that is the purpose of having aspects such as this - for soul strengthening. I still have a degree of post traumatic stress from the childhood bullying; one of my older brothers is dead, and another I don't see any more. It took me a long time to feel OK about not seeing him - this is my way of ensuring that I endure. It can be done, but no-one is saying it is easy.

I don't believe I have those two aspects in my chart (moon square neptune and moon square mars) I do, however, have sun square neptune and moon square uranus. I think these aspects would raise similar issues as the one's you mentioned and relate closely to my past. From your experience, what differences do you think can come with these placements, especially with Neptune squaring the Sun instead of the Moon. You mentioned needs, which I associate closely with aspects to the moon. How would you relate my needs to having the Uranus squaring the moon in my chart? I read the article on these aspects, but if you have some insights from your own experience from others you know, I'd like to hear them.

some brief info about my past:
With the Sun square Neptune, My father left when I was 3 and my brothers became solely responsible for my everyday life and upbringing. They took out there frustrations and aggressions on life onto me. My mother, a dedicated and hardworking woman I must say, wasn't around to protect me from them since she had to work 12/16 hour shifts to make ends meet. It's interesting though because I am very close to my brothers now. I am a very forgiving person and I understand them very well. They actually look up to me for help and see me (finally) more as an equal. I don't think they realize however, how difficult it was for me to overlook what they had done in the past. They tend to trivialize the past, but I know deep inside that it has and continues to affect me tremendously, especially with my relationships.


Sun 00 Libra
Moon 10 Virgo
Uranus 10 Sag
Neptune 28 Sag

Mercury square Mars (would this account for my relations with my siblings?)
Mercury 17 Virgo
Mars 22 Sag

CJ24 said:

I don't believe I have those two aspects in my chart (moon square neptune and moon square mars) I do, however, have sun square neptune and moon square uranus. I think these aspects would raise similar issues as the one's you mentioned and relate closely to my past.
Mercury square Mars (would this account for my relations with my siblings?)
Mercury 17 Virgo
Mars 22 Sag

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Sorry, my mistake. I checked and I'd done a chart for 23rd Sept. Just a typo, but such a difference in the charts!!

You have Sun squ Nept-Jupiter conj. - a very fertile imagination there. Perhaps this is the place where you can escaape when things get on top of you.
Moon square Uranus can describe changeable moods, with upsets around the home - perhaps accidents which occur when energy is suppressed.

What you say about Mercury squ Mars is possible, although this describes the jarring effect of thoughts vs action. I think you also need to acknowledge that Mars-Neptune conjunction will have a suppressing effect upon the natural flow of Mars in Sag. This conjunction also adds to the creative imagination, and can make it difficult for your Martian energy to flow in the outer world.

CJ24 said:

I don't believe I have those two aspects in my chart (moon square neptune and moon square mars) I do, however, have sun square neptune and moon square uranus. I think these aspects would raise similar issues as the one's you mentioned and relate closely to my past. From your experience, what differences do you think can come with these placements, especially with Neptune squaring the Sun instead of the Moon. You mentioned needs, which I associate closely with aspects to the moon. How would you relate my needs to having the Uranus squaring the moon in my chart? I read the article on these aspects, but if you have some insights from your own experience from others you know, I'd like to hear them.

some brief info about my past:
With the Sun square Neptune, My father left when I was 3 and my brothers became solely responsible for my everyday life and upbringing. They took out there frustrations and aggressions on life onto me. My mother, a dedicated and hardworking woman I must say, wasn't around to protect me from them since she had to work 12/16 hour shifts to make ends meet. It's interesting though because I am very close to my brothers now. I am a very forgiving person and I understand them very well. They actually look up to me for help and see me (finally) more as an equal. I don't think they realize however, how difficult it was for me to overlook what they had done in the past. They tend to trivialize the past, but I know deep inside that it has and continues to affect me tremendously, especially with my relationships.


Sun 00 Libra
Moon 10 Virgo
Uranus 10 Sag
Neptune 28 Sag

Mercury square Mars (would this account for my relations with my siblings?)
Mercury 17 Virgo
Mars 22 Sag

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I have moon square Uranus and this suggest a break with mom, relationships with women, impatience, impulsiveness etc. There is great thread which disucsses this on AW. http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=13124

for explanations of natal aspects try http://cafeastrology.com/natal/planetsaspectsastrology.html
Mercury square mars = forceful or argumentativeness, prob cos you had to...

Sun square neptune as per Robert Hand

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CJ24 said:

I'm hoping to get an answer from an experienced soul-centered astrologer (esoteric), not necessarily personality based (but also wouldn't mind it).

Since I have Scorpio Rising with Pluto Conjunct Venus in the 12th, some may say that Pluto is my Ruling Planet, exoterically. For the esoteric astrologer, my ruling planet would be Mars in the 2nd house.

However, Saturn is directly conjunct my Ascendant as well. Now according, to Alan Oken, a planet conjunct the ascendant becomes your main Ruling planet. From Edgar Cayce's life readings, the planet at the Zenith (conjunct asc.) or above (conjunct MC) is the most important planet, in my case, Saturn.

Both Pluto and Saturn seem prominent my life, but I would like some insight on which one plays a more significant role in my own Soul development. And when I discover which one is in fact my ruling planet, how do I go about utilizing that energy constructively? What role/impact does the Ruling Planet have on one's life? Also, if you have any suggestions on books or authors who discuss this issue in depth, please let me know.

Here's my birth info. Sept 23, 1984 10:00 am Los Angeles, CA

I have Scorpio Rising 11 Degrees Conjunct Saturn in Scorpio at 13 Degrees.
Venus in Libra 27 Degrees Conjunct Pluto in Scorpio 00 Degrees (12th house)

Sun Libra, Moon Virgo.
Mars Sagittarius

Thanks for your help! I'm really looking forward to some insight.

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Traditionally, Scorpio is your first house, along with any planets in it. Libra is your 12th house. Mars is the ruler of your chart.

The outer planets are indeed octaves of Mars, Venus and Mercury, and represent the pure state of awareness that exists beyond what can be understood by humans. I don't think Aquarius is ruled by Uranus. The same with Neptune and Pisces and Pluto with Scorpio. Furthermore, Pluto would rule Aries coming from a geometric perspective. It can even be seen as simply as Aqua/Ura, Pis/Nep, Aries/Pluto.

If you find success using super-conscious planets, symbols of Angels, in ordinary human beings, that's great, but I encourage researching the classics.

Good luck.

Joseph

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I would add to the previous post that I'd take different new theories with caution and only accept what truly fits your experience and intuition. Astrology is not precise, but traditional astrology has been verified by many centuries of experience (and even there we find mistakes), but the newer astrology is coming from the authors whose intuition may or may not be on target. The only way to verify it is to let it compare to your experience and your own intuition. I personally do not feel strong connection to Alan Leo's writing, besides he was inspired by the teaching of Alice Baily, and she was not the messenger of light. She was conflicted and early in life attempted suicide. Again, things like this are hard to prove or disprove, it is a matter of one's own heart recognition (intuition).
As far as which planet is the most important, I feel that Saturn is. Although I would not discount Pluto. You're the judge of how Pluto manifests in your life. (I think for many people the influences of Uranus, Neptune, Pluto are not conscious or even relevant) but would not completely discount tranSaturnian planets either, they have been discovered, and they mean something in the Solar system and in the psyche of men. I say that Saturn is most important, b/c I'm influenced by the Morin's theory (and he verified his theories with a lot of experience and was an astrologer of greatest repute at the court of Louis IV, in 17th century). Morin postulated that the most important planet for the affairs of the house is the one physically positioned in there. The ruler is important, but it is still less powerful than the planet residing in the house. Since your asc. represents you and your life, your psychological predisposition, I'd say Saturn is the strongest and it is close to Asc. as well. I feel that Saturn gives your the strength and stamina to "control" yourself. It is something about controlling oneself and one's power (Scorpio's desire). I guess at times you'll restrict yourself in expressing your desire for intensity and power. You may also isolate yourself on purpose, Saturn rising often tends to make one cut out the association with others for various reasons. I would also not discount Mars as your ruler, Mars in the 2nd conj. Neptune -- seems interesting. You put your energy into supporting yourself, being self-reliant, but there is some diffusion of energy, uncertainty and perhaps self-delusion? I imagine that Saturn will demand most of your attention, and so will Pluto Venus conj. in the 12, and Mars, Jupiter, Neptune conj. (loose) in the 2nd. I'd look at your nodes for the future development, like you're moving from the 1st house node in Sag to the 7ths house node in Gemini. It would indicated moving from being very individualistic and self-focused in your philosophy, beliefs to learning from partners, sharing knowledge with them and co-operating. Does it apply to life at all?

There are all types of Astrologers use this forum but mainly fall into Traditional & Western Astrology, the differences are explained here
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Western_astrology
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp

Traditional astrologers mainly answer Horary questions but lots others also and different rules apply than from natal.

Personally, I'm a modern astrologer that uses Equal house system, but everyone different and that's the beauty of forums like this everyone gets to express their personal opinion.

Different house systems also seem to be a bone of contention as well...So if you want to do a little research follow the links..

How then does an astrologer choose a house system? Well, the individual studying alone is more than likely to use Placidus Houses. The reason for this is simple - he has to consult an ephemeris in any case, and Raphael's Ephemeris is the most widely used, which gives the information needed for Placidus Houses.
Students who study with a recognised school are usually introduced to all of the house systems, but taught to use one far more than the others. This is usually the Equal House system, which incidentally is also the oldest one. In this house system, the twelve divisions are very much like spokes of a wheel, equally spaced at 30 degree intervals, with all houses being the same size. This is the easiest of the House systems to use, as it requires no further calculation. Once the Ascendant is known, one simply divides the rest of the chart using the Ascending degree as a starting point - so if the Ascendant is at 22 degrees Leo, this is take as the cusp of the first house, with the second house beginning at 22 degrees Virgo, the third at 22 degrees Libra and so forth.
The Equal House system is conceptually valid within today's astrological standpoint that every individual is free to become what their birth chart symbolises as their ultimate talent. The Ascendant has been shown to correspond to the way the person automatically approaches their environment - the 'persona' in Jungian terms. This person is therefore likely to approach every field of life in a specific way. A person with an Aquarius Ascendant, for example, will approach money-making and material values (2nd house) in a Pisces manner, will learn (3rd house) in an Aries manner, deal with family (4th house) in a Taurus manner and so forth.

The biggest criticism of the Equal House system concerns the position of the MC, which, using this system is more often than not the cusp of the tenth house (or any house) but rather is found within the 9th, 10th or 11th house.

The MC, being the highest point at birth, symbolises the aims and ambitions one works towards, and, by extension, one's career potential and public image. But these areas are also 10th house matters, devised, because of that house's association with Saturn, to show precisely these areas of life. It is therefore conceptually necessary (so goes the argument) that the MC be the cusp of the 10th house. For this reason, the Equal House system has a limited following outside the UK, although it is still the commonest House system within the UK.
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/systems.html
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm