How does the Sun in Fall "color" the chart?

[soratothamax]

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_planets1_e.htm

How does the Sun in the signs color everything else?

And when someone is in Fall and Detriment how is everything colored? Is everything colored moderately, as in Fall? Or in Aquarius is everything colored, making all the planets seem colder than they are?

Or are they too weak to color the charts completely?

Does it mean the Sun's presence or expression is weakened in the planets? Or that all the planets are now "weakened"?

Is the Sun how we express, or the way we express, the other planets? Or is the sun just holding the other planets back but if it's weak, it doesn't hold back the other planets very well...?

Will none of the planets be visible, and overall, they will come off like weak people, weakening everything in the chart?

Is it that they weakened the other planets with a weak sun, or that it weakened it's own presence, making it hard to see who they truly are?

I'm confused...

[Moog]

A weak sun will have it's own problems, and will give a weak house where Leo is, and any planets in Leo may be affected. Any yoga combinations involving the sun are likely to be rendered less effective, and time periods ruled by the Sun are likely to give less happy results.

Weak Sun people tend to be 'wallflower-ish', fading into the background, unable to impress themselves on others, express themselves satisfactorily, lead and persuade others, be politically and socially effective etc.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by soratothamax

.....And when someone is in Fall and Detriment how is everything colored?

fwiw soratothamax the following is a 96 word quote from Skyskript traditional astrology http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig4.html

"For a Planet in his Detriment is like a person cast out of all his Estate without hopes of Recovery, whereas the Fall shows but a present subjection unto a misfortune with hopes of Recovery. (William Lilly, 'Choice Astrological Aphorisms' Merlini Anglici Ephemeris, 1676)

A planet in detriment/fall is in precarious condition, more so if peregrine or otherwise afflicted. Many planets debilitated in this way in a nativity is considered a sign of obscurity and low birth. Firmicus described such a person as: wretched, poor, low of birth and constantly plagued by had luck (Mathesis, 2.3.3)"

[soratothamax]

Originally Posted by Moog

A weak sun will have it's own problems, and will give a weak house where Leo is, and any planets in Leo may be affected. Any yoga combinations involving the sun are likely to be rendered less effective, and time periods ruled by the Sun are likely to give less happy results.

Weak Sun people tend to be 'wallflower-ish', fading into the background, unable to impress themselves on others, express themselves satisfactorily, lead and persuade others, be politically and socially effective etc.

But what is the sun? What does it do? It's function's is to shine light on the chart, and without the sun we can't see the other planets, from what I know? So with a weak sun, we won't be able to see the expressions of the other planets as clearly? If it's wall-flowerish, will they not be able to shine a Venus in Scorpio? Will it prohibit the other planets from shining forth?

All sun signs influence all the planets, from what I know.

[Moog]

Originally Posted by soratothamax

But what is the sun? What does it do? It's function's is to shine light on the chart, and without the sun we can't see the other planets, from what I know? So with a weak sun, we won't be able to see the expressions of the other planets as clearly? If it's wall-flowerish, will they not be able to shine a Venus in Scorpio? Will it prohibit the other planets from shining forth?

All sun signs influence all the planets, from what I know.

I know people with weak Suns who are fine artists, for example, having a strong Venus. Or fine communicators, having a strong Mercury. The problem is that they find it hard to be listened to, or to put their work out into the world to be appreciated, or do effective networking etc.

So, in that sense, I believe the planetary energies in the chart do all work together to create a whole picture.

A weak and afflicted Moon particularly seems to have a huge effect on the entire life of any particular person with it. I haven't looked at Suns with the same depth.

[byjove]

Originally Posted by soratothamax

http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_planets1_e.htm

How does the Sun in the signs color everything else?

And when someone is in Fall and Detriment how is everything colored? Is everything colored moderately, as in Fall? Or in Aquarius is everything colored, making all the planets seem colder than they are?

Or are they too weak to color the charts completely?

Does it mean the Sun's presence or expression is weakened in the planets? Or that all the planets are now "weakened"?

Is the Sun how we express, or the way we express, the other planets? Or is the sun just holding the other planets back but if it's weak, it doesn't hold back the other planets very well...?

Will none of the planets be visible, and overall, they will come off like weak people, weakening everything in the chart?

Is it that they weakened the other planets with a weak sun, or that it weakened it's own presence, making it hard to see who they truly are?

I'm confused...

Hi!

I would make absolutely certain that a planet is weakened - even a planet in detriment or fall can have minor or major assistance. Most modern astrological references that I've come across give little reason to hope, that's just the books I've come across. Traditional astrologer and older seems to provide more reasoning and along with that I've found that detriment/fall is not necessarily the end of the line.

Consider and search for:

1) Accidental dignities
2) Joys. Joys are not just Moon in the 3rd, just the other day I read an exalted Sun places Mars in joy, or a planet in detriment/fall can be more or less saved by the company of an exalted planet in the same sign
3) Other dignities, face, terms etc. These are more minor usually but definitely help.

If you're really just looking at the detriment / fall part and nothing else, then I think others have said what I would say - a shrinking violet type. Event if they have strength elsewhere in the chart, you just can't get the Sun in bad shape, the exit point won't carry the other strengths.

Others on the forum might have seen different over the years with their experience, if anyone has please tell us! (sits and listens)

[soratothamax]

Originally Posted by Moog

I know people with weak Suns who are fine artists, for example, having a strong Venus. Or fine communicators, having a strong Mercury. The problem is that they find it hard to be listened to, or to put their work out into the world to be appreciated, or do effective networking etc.

So, in that sense, I believe the planetary energies in the chart do all work together to create a whole picture.

A weak and afflicted Moon particularly seems to have a huge effect on the entire life of any particular person with it. I haven't looked at Suns with the same depth.

This makes a lot of sense. Like someone with Mercury in Gemini can be a very good communicator, but because the Sun is in Taurus they have a hard time being recognized as one?

[Moog]

Originally Posted by soratothamax

This makes a lot of sense. Like someone with Mercury in Gemini can be a very good communicator, but because the Sun is in Taurus they have a hard time being recognized as one?

In a nutshell.

[SniperBomber328]

This basically means anyone born from January 20 - February 18 and September 23 - October 22 have little to no chance in gaining recognition, being extrovert and sociable or in any way, having confidence. Also anyone born between March 21 - April 19 and July 21 - August 22 should exude the aforementioned traits.

I know many people (personaly) (and am pretty sure celebrities born at the days indicated above) who have the above traits. I also know people who have Sun in Aries and Leo who are rather shy, introverted, not very sociable and/or plainly a behind-the-scenes type of person(s).

Meaning that the Sign placement alone is NOT the only factor to consider when looking at a planets strength. One must also consider accidental dignities/debilities, other essential dignities/debilities, planet placement by house, where it disposits (or if the Final dispositor), etc.

[soratothamax]

Originally Posted by SniperBomber328

This basically means anyone born from January 20 - February 18 and September 23 - October 22 have little to no chance in gaining recognition, being extrovert and sociable or in any way, having confidence. Also anyone born between March 21 - April 19 and July 21 - August 22 should exude the aforementioned traits.

I know many people (personaly) (and am pretty sure celebrities born at the days indicated above) who have the above traits. I also know people who have Sun in Aries and Leo who are rather shy, introverted, not very sociable and/or plainly a behind-the-scenes type of person(s).

Meaning that the Sign placement alone is NOT the only factor to consider when looking at a planets strength. One must also consider accidental dignities/debilities, other essential dignities/debilities, planet placement by house, where it disposits (or if the Final dispositor), etc.

I do know this. I was just interested in the general information and wanted to know more about it.

I also wanted to know this. Say for instance someone has a Sun in Taurus, but a Moon in Leo. Could that depositor help the Sun even think about their identities more?

[Moog]

Originally Posted by SniperBomber328

This basically means anyone born from January 20 - February 18 and September 23 - October 22 have little to no chance in gaining recognition, being extrovert and sociable or in any way, having confidence. Also anyone born between March 21 - April 19 and July 21 - August 22 should exude the aforementioned traits.

I know many people (personaly) (and am pretty sure celebrities born at the days indicated above) who have the above traits. I also know people who have Sun in Aries and Leo who are rather shy, introverted, not very sociable and/or plainly a behind-the-scenes type of person(s).

Meaning that the Sign placement alone is NOT the only factor to consider when looking at a planets strength. One must also consider accidental dignities/debilities, other essential dignities/debilities, planet placement by house, where it disposits (or if the Final dispositor), etc.

Of course.

Sun in Libra in an angle either from the ascendant or the moon, or both. Venus co-present could help out. Nodal interference would be another one. There's probably many more.

I was able to perform a statistical analysis on a reasonable size sample of celebrity sun signs recently, and sidereal Libra was indeed the least represented.

You can't talk about every factor that can have an influence in every post, I'd not have time to do anything else.