An anonymou call - delineation

al Nablusi

Well-known member
This is an horary I casted for myself. I posted it here to get some feedback.

Background to the question


At 08:30 A.M. of Easter Monday the phone rang several times, waking up everybody in the house. The chart was cast for the exact time when the anonymous call was received.

Considerations before judgement

* The first house falls at 29° 15'' Taurus
* The Moon lies in the Via Combusta

The late ascendant indicates that the querent has got no power to affect the outcome of this question. The ascendant's conjunction to the Pleiades, indicates that the querent is eating and drinking too much, and feeling sorry because of the loss of someone.

The placement of the Moon in the Via Combusta simply indicates ineffectual action on the part of the querent or of the quesited. The querent tried to trace the number of the caller, but was unsuccessful. The person who called neither spoke nor hung up the phone. The actions of both people were quite ineffectual.

This chart was cast for the exact time when the anonymous call was received. The chart is also descriptive of the situation, so it can be considered radical. The considerations before judgement do not apply.

Choice of significators

* The querent is signifed by the first house and its lord. The first house falls at 29°15'' Taurus. Its lord is Venus at 14° 2' Pisces

* The person who made the phone call is signified by the twelfth house and its lord. The twelth house falls at 12° 27' Aries. Its lord is Mars at 7° 24' Cancer
The twelfth house was chosen as significator of the person who called because he is not known to the querent.

* The call is signified by the third house and its lord. The third house falls at 14° 27' Cancer. Its lord is the Moon at 2°43' Scorpio.

Delineation

The call wasn't place by chance. It was intentional. This is deduced by the mutual reception by house between the Moon (lord of the third house) and Mars (lord of the twelfth house). Also, Mars is in the third house from the twelfth (the communications of people we do not know).

The person who placed the call may be somebody known to the querent. Venus (the querent) has just separed a trine to Mars (the person who placed the call). The call should have been placed by someone who was in touch with the querent until September/October 2007. Also Mars co-rules the seventh house, house of partners and open enemies. Venus is in the house of Jupiter, and Mars is in the exaltation of Jupiter. The querent and the caller had something in common: they were either friends (Jupiter rules the eleventh house in the chart), or partners (Jupiter rules the seventh house in the chart).

The following indicate that no future communication will take place between the querent and the person who placed the call:

* Both the third house and its lord fall in mute signs.
* The Moon lies in the Via Combusta and is in fall. It has got no power to act
* The Moon and Mars are in mutual reception, but both planets are in their fall. They are similar to two drunks helping each other home: their action is eventually ineffectual.
* The Moon is applying a trine to Mars. However, before the aspect becomes partile, the Moon will perfect a sextile to retrograde Saturn in Virgo. The rays of the Moon will be cut off by Saturn, and this will prevent any perfection of the trine to Mars.
 

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Interesting post.....very informative.

I wonder if you can tell me if this is always the case for an event?

This chart was cast for the exact time when the anonymous call was received. The chart is also descriptive of the situation, so it can be considered radical. The considerations before judgement do not apply.

Is there any case that would make the considerations of judgement apply, in a chart that tells the story?

The call should have been placed by someone who was in touch with the querent until September/October 2007.

Can you explain this please? I'm not sure I understand how you have seen this.

You have a great organization of you workings out. I like it! :D

Cheers
L2J
 

al Nablusi

Well-known member
Charts cast for the exact time when an even happened are - I believe - always radical. In this case the "considerations" do not apply. If they are present, they are merely descriptive of the event.

Example: we cast an horary chart for the moment when we sent an email, to know if we will get a reply. The Ascendant however falls at 0°. In this case the early ascendant could be interpreted in the following ways:
- either the person has not read the message yet. Or
- the decisions that need to be taken before the person can reply to our message have not been taken yet.

I use the following method, based on Lehman.
Event charts always "have the precedence" over horary charts. So if I want to cast an horary about an email message, I will use the time, place and date when the message was sent.

---------------------------------
How I figured out about the six-seven months:

Venus has just separed a trine to Mars. Separing aspects indicate things that are past. An aspect between two significators (people) in horary indicates that these people are in touch, have some kind of relationship etc.
An applying aspect means that the people will come together.
A separing aspect means that the people had some kind of relationship. In this case the number of months is indicated by the degree of separation between Mars and Venus.
 
Thankyou for your reply.

I use the following method, based on Lehman.
Event charts always "have the precedence" over horary charts. So if I want to cast an horary about an email message, I will use the time, place and date when the message was sent.

This is something I have not really considered very deeply before. I have seen people asking for example, if they will get the job. So is it the event chart of the interview, that would be a better chart to read? Somehow I have seen that people use the horary, although using the event chart, makes alot more sense.
Thanks for bringing this up. I am going to go and investigate further.

Cheers
L2J
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hello Al Nablusi! How very nice to see you again. The way you put this horary (event) together is very very systematically and clear and a good example to use, especially in the beginning if you have not done horary much before. Very good deduction as well, I enjoyed it a lot! Thank you for showing this, really interesting. This horary has been on the board for some time, I did not see it before, just now when I went over the old one's.

But you also like some feedback and I will try to do so, just give me a bit to study this and your remarks.
Cheers, Starlink
 
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starlink

Well-known member
I was almost ready with my delineation and I lost the text. this really drives me NUTS!! It has somehow to do with my laptop, totally sensitive, it happens to me sooo often.

I did see other things Nablusi. I will go over it tomorrow again, but I think the person who called knows you (Moon your co-sign. in his sign and Mars in your term!) and that he called because he wanted to undermine (12th house) your selfconfidence maybe (him in your 2nd) or he just wanted to hear the querents voice (2nd house???? Taurus) maybe once more.
You wrote that the querent was feeling sorry because of the loss of somebody. I noted Saturn conjunct the 5th house cusp, retro, so getting out of love sort of thing and Mars leaving the sextile to Saturn. So either the querent or the caller or both, could just have split up. Mars is also leaving the trine to the Moon.

So yes, I think the call was intentional as well.
Mars also rules open enemies. He rules the 7th, which means that the querent must know him, so the 12th house I think does play maybe another role here, more something to do with hidden things, rather than that this house rules the unknown person. He indeed called keeping himself a secret.

OK, before I loose it again, here he goes! I am going to bed now, Cheers, Star.
 

starlink

Well-known member
Hi Nablusi, here I am again. Ok, lets look at the Antiscion of Mars (him, most likely it is a him). That falls conjunct your 2nd house cusp at 22°36 Gemini.
Frawley writes that if the Antiscion falls on the cusp of a house, not just floating inside that house, then this shows that the person has an interest in the affairs of that house or that the house is affected by whatever that planet signifies. Now what could that mean. Your finances, your selfworth or your support for him (it is his 8th house), or as seen from the 3rd of the 12th, he could have been interested in just having contact by you, hearing your voice. He did not put down the receiver as you wrote, he just listened.
If Mars comes from the 7th as being him, then he is in his own 8th house and clearly miserable, in fall and looking for comfort (Cancer).

Any comments to add to this? I want to learn, so be strict please! :)

STar.
 

al Nablusi

Well-known member
Looking to Jupiter said:
So is it the event chart of the interview, that would be a better chart to read? Somehow I have seen that people use the horary, although using the event chart, makes alot more sense.

Hello Looking to Jupiter,

in theory using the event chart makes more sense. In practice, people cast horaries before the interview to know whether they will get the job. Both methods seem to work, even though I prefer to cast the event chart,

Cheers,

AN
 

al Nablusi

Well-known member
Hi Starlink,

thanks a lot for your feedback. I
starlink said:
called because he wanted to undermine (12th house) your selfconfidence maybe (him in your 2nd)

I did not consider this symbolism of the 12th house.

starlink said:
Mars also rules open enemies. He rules the 7th, which means that the querent must know him, so the 12th house I think does play maybe another role here, more something to do with hidden things, rather than that this house rules the unknown person. He indeed called keeping himself a secret.

In fact, I was thinking about an "open enemy" of mine....according to the horary, it is beyond any reasonable doubt that the parties know each other. Hidden things....yes.

starlink said:
Mars is also leaving the trine to the Moon

Faster planets apply aspect to slower ones. In this case the Moon is applying a trine to Mars. The planets are in mutual reception too, but given the condition of the Moon, nothing will come out of it.

starlink said:
, lets look at the Antiscion of Mars (him, most likely it is a him). That falls conjunct your 2nd house cusp at 22°36 Gemini.
Frawley writes that if the Antiscion falls on the cusp of a house, not just floating inside that house, then this shows that the person has an interest in the affairs of that house or that the house is affected by whatever that planet signifies. Now what could that mean. Your finances, your selfworth or your support for him (it is his 8th house), or as seen from the 3rd of the 12th, he could have been interested in just having contact by you,

Didn't know about this technique, but definitely it did work. The problem - if the caller was the person I believe he was - is about business and finance. Mars falls in the turned 8th house = money coming from other people. Very little money, given the condition of Mars, that cause a lot of worries.....

AN
 

starlink

Well-known member
Thanks for answering Nablusi. Interesting that you mention that it could be a financial thing with his Antiscion on your 2nd house cusp. But why calling like that and not saying anything?? Really weird.
Originally Posted by starlink
Mars is also leaving the trine to the Moon
I of course meant Moon leaving trine to Mars, my brain twisted I guess:).
Cheers, Starlink
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
At 08:30 A.M. of Easter Monday the phone rang several times, waking up everybody in the house. The chart was cast for the exact time when the anonymous call was received.

This is an Event chart, not a horary. They are not the same thing and operate on different rules. To answer another question asked, yes, the event chart always takes precedence to a horary chart and - in theory - just about anything can be changed by the election of a proper event chart, regardless of what a horary on the subject states. Horary indicates your unwilled wondering (leaving it 'up to fate'), whereas the event/electional initiates you putting the situation in your hands as best as possible.

The querent is signifed by the first house and its lord.

The querent becomes signified by the Seventh house as the one receiving the call.

The person who made the phone call is signified by the twelfth house and its lord.

This person would be signified by the First house as the one making the call, thus initiating the action.

The call is signified by the third house and its lord.

Yes, the nature and intent of the call would be derived from these significators.

Charts cast for the exact time when an even happened are - I believe - always radical. In this case the "considerations" do not apply. If they are present, they are merely descriptive of the event.

Yes, I agree. Event charts are never 'non-radical'.
 
Yes, I agree. Event charts are never 'non-radical'.

Can you not do an event chart before the event its self?.......for example looking at an appointment planned or interview, when there is a specific time planned. (obviously life will get in the way at times)

I have so many more questions arising from this discussion, but i do feel outta my league, so I am going to just wait for my frawley books....
 

starlink

Well-known member
Thank you Kai for pointing that out! I have not really done event charts, but it is very good to know that you put the "event", in this case the caller, on the Ascendant. am learning something here. I also did not know about the considerations NOT to be applied in an event chart.So what is the role of the Moon going to be in these sort of charts? Will she still be co-significator of the Ascendant or does she play a totally different role in event charts? Maybe I should try to find this in one of my books. Must look into this chart again now. So Venus becomes the Caller, in the 11th. Venus just left Merc., meaning she just called. Venus in Pisces, exhalted and probably full of herself. Could it be a women maybe?? Wonder what Nablusi thinks about it now. Then the Antiscia of Venus falls at 15°58 Libra, not touching anything.
The other Antiscia seemed to have worked better (when I still took the 7th as the caller I mean). But maybe that now showes that the receiver of the call was preoccupied with finances. That could be. Complicado complicado!!:)

Merci!! Starlink
 
Star,

I have seen somewhere *cant remember where*, that event and electional astrology is discussed in Frawleys book "Real Astrology" or "Real astrology applied".......I am finding the idea of event charts fascinating too, except I am a bit scared that I will be doing them before doing ANYTHING.....(if you get what I mean) I actually want to send an email to someone, but want to make sure its the right time....that type of thing.....

Further down the rabbit hole I go.......................
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
So what is the role of the Moon going to be in these sort of charts? Will she still be co-significator of the Ascendant or does she play a totally different role in event charts?

I have only ever seen one book claim Luna to co-signify the First house as she does in horary, but I was very displeased with this book as it got the grand majority if its rules wrong, and since it's the only source I've seen make this statement, I'm choosing to disregard it as a whimsy. In these types of charts, Luna explains the situation concerning the house cusp that falls within Cancer, and tells the events of the story based on her aspects to the other planets before she leaves her Sign. So, if we want to know what happened, we look to aspects she's just made, if we want to know what is going to happen we look at aspects she is just about to make.

Could it be a women maybe??

Feminine Sign on the cusp of the First, Venus a feminine planet in a Feminine Sign, Ascending degree is a feminine degree. Sounds like a girl to me!
 

starlink

Well-known member
I
have only ever seen one book claim Luna to co-signify the First house as she does in horary,
In other words: NO. I can go along with that, thanks Kai. Are you doing more event than horary? You have very good input so I would love to see you more in horary:)
cheers,Star.
 
I reckon Kai should give us all a lesson in events...we all do so many horaries.....i need to learn to pick the right time to do things.....its all very well to know "if" things will happen, but doing them at the right time is a whole different ballgame......
horary is the bottom rung......we should be checking out the rungs above where we are at.....even in our infancy....
 

Kaiousei no Senshi

Premium Member
I reckon Kai should give us all a lesson in events...we all do so many horaries.....i need to learn to pick the right time to do things.....its all very well to know "if" things will happen, but doing them at the right time is a whole different ballgame......

What you want are tips in Electionals, and that's really quite funny as a friend of mine suggested I do an article on those.

Elections are...difficult because you have to make sacrifices. :(
 
yeh well it would be great to learn something...still waiting on my books.....preferrably before the 24th too Kai.....i have ideas that i should do something on that day....i have looked at the chart, but i dont know....working off intuition really....thats bound to trip me up:p

If you know what you' re talking about...you should do something.....Radu should give us a lesson too.....
 
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