What house has to do with astrology and sex?

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Hm, okay.

Lilly, I thought your work was thorough, but I do have to say you lost it all on your fifth word of your first post. Astrology belongs to the Ninth house as a 'science' or a subject of higher learning, as well as a mystical subject or a philosophy I suppose. Also it might be a good idea to use the natural planets that rule astrology, Uranus or Mercury, depending on if you embrace the Modern or Tradition.

I'm going to agree with just about everything astro.teacher said here. Very well put and excellent points.

Re: self, to Melissa

It's not my belief system. It's how it is.

Skyscript: The Houses: Temples of the Sky - Meanings of the Ninth House said:

Dreams, visions, inspired thoughts, divination, astrology, mysticism, philosophy, beliefs; the desire to unite with something greater than oneself. Religion and clergy of any kind. Affairs of the church...Ramesey notes: "all manner of students, such as astrologers, physitians, lawyers, and all students of other good learning altogether"

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But, use whatever house you like. Many astrologers like to do that, so I guess it's not that bad.

The proof of the pudding however is in the eating. If you look at the chart from the conventionally held view that house 8 rules astrology then you will see that Lissa has the moon and mercury trining that cusp.

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Excuse me? Conventionally held view? I'm sorry, but I'm pretty sure you're about in the minority with this general agreement. Also, of course. There's obviously nothing significant about the Ninth house ruler being Mercury (the natural planet of astrology and astrologers) and being in Mutual Reception with Mars, Lord of the Eleventh.

How silly of me to assume that this would reflect Lissa's ambition to study to become an astrologer.

One more thing, I want to know why it would be the Eighth? Why put astrology in the house of greif, loss, and death?

Re: two things, to Lilly

Ah! The old X is Y and X is a part of Z, so therefore X=Y=Z argument! Brilliant! -.-'''

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

I agree with Kaiousei no Senshi concerning Astrology and the 9th House, all traditional sources I have read state that Astrology is ruled under the 9th House. Astrology is both theology and philosophy (the theory of Astrology that is) therefore it makes most sense to be associated with the 9th House because of its intimate ties to those subjects. Astrology is the means in which to understand God (primarily Gods will) and creation therefore I dont see how it could not be associated with the 9th.

I have found many times that the outer Planets often just collect associations that the traditional Planets already possess and are therefore quite useless (in my opinion) when interpreting charts (hence why I do not use them). I have even written a page on this concerning how you dont need the outer Planets in Astrology because all of their significations can be found in traditional Astrology, it just takes a diligent eye.

http://www.antiquus-astrology.com/Chap4-2.html

Lilly,

Your path is interesting. What Traditional authors have you studied under?

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Everyone is different and it might not being weather being an astrologer is your calling as much as what type of astrologer you would want to become being so young.

Research other astrologers charts to see what they contributed to the art and what special area they were best at.

If you like to write then do research and wrte.If you like to deal with others then become proficient at Natal charts and progressd charting systems.

I think that astrologers need to mature before they can handle difficult questioning myself. Not trying to discourage you as many astrologers like Liz Greene started young.Many in my time became psychologist and added astrology to their bag of tools.

I started studying at 16 so you can become a great astrologer. There was an article about astrolgers and how hard it is to do it fulltime. Most need a second source of income.

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Hi there:
Well a few things I'd like to address...Firstly to support why I have used H8 to represent Astrology.
House 8 is not only the house of sex and death and taxes. It is also the house of *occult matters*. Let us remember that astrology was once considered a heresy. I'm not sure how Uranus can be said to rule astrology as astrology was in practice well before uranus was discovered. House 8 has links with house 12, another house dealing with secret matters. Astrologers have been considered at different times in history to be practitioners of darkness. Indeed conventional *christian* religions regard astrology as being anti religion and still consider it to be a pagan practice.

Kai Are you saying that JUPITER, ruler of house 9 rules astrology? I have never heard of Jupiter being ascribed to this...Mercury, I can understand as a natural ruler of astrology as it relates to study and higher learning.
As far as astrology being a *religion*...no- I don't believe in God but does that make me any less competent as an astrologer? The Church in my country would be most horrified to think that their religion and astrology would be included under the same umbrella..
As far as house 9 goes in relation to *higher learning*, ruling colleges and universities, I find it interesting that astrology is not usually taught in such places...certainly not regarded as being a mainstream house 9 activity.

Kai: I am happy to *debate* issues on this forum but I think your derisive responses are most unnecessary. There is still a lot to be learnt and understood in astrology...it isn't *set in concrete* even people like William lilly, deviated from the conventions of other astrologers, acknowledging that the more information and knowledge we have about the universe the more we ,as astrologers, have to adjust our own thinking.
It isn't a case of x = y =z....I ask you all as astrologers in the making- take a look at your own charts and see what demonstrates your astrological interest...This is HOW astrology develops...People like William lilly et al did not have access to the thousands of charts that we do..which means we can refine by research the *opinions* of previous astrologers..testing their theories against real charts..a luxury to which they were not privy-mostly because astrology had to be done in secret for most of its history.(which is actually an argument for the 12th house to be considered as a rulership of astrology also.)
Kai other people have different opinions to you sometimes but you seem to respond with an air of superiority that some might see as arrogant considering your tender years- others might see you as slavishly following a particular idealogy..Its fine to disagree with me- but perhaps refrain from the *attitude*- it doesn't foster friendly relations in this medium.

As am in no way *close-minded* I would welcome you directing me to traditional astrology sources that claim house 9 as the house dealing with astrology..I am quite happy to read as much as possible on the subject.
I have studied from the work of Alan Leo,et al..and under the tutorship of Dymock Brose.I am not plucking my opinions out of nowhere. Cheers, lillyjgc

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

The Eighth house is not the house of sex, that's the Fifth. I disagree with the Eigth house as the house of occult matters, I would have put it as the Twelfth since this house deals with private and hidden matters and the word 'occult' can mean things that are hidden.

I'm not really sure why Uranus was assigned to astrology either, that would be something interesting to research, actually.

I said nothing of Jupiter ruling astrology, just the Ninth house, Mercury in Tradition, and Uranus in Modern. I never said astrology was a religion. It's a belief, philosophy, and a subject of higher learning all Ninth house rulerships. Not a religion. Unless someone out their worships astrology...somehow. However, if you wanted to follow this little Jupiter thought stream. I could turn this around and say who said Mars ruled astrology? Never heard that one.

Astrology used to be taught in universities. You can look that up if you want to.

I'm not "derisive". I'm passionate, with a hint of sarcasm.

I don't care how old I am. I don't see what my age has to do with anything. I know what I know. Whether I'm eighteen or eighty. I'm not going to let people do things the wrong way and I'm going to make my opinions known some way. If it seems like I come across as 'arrogant', well then there's nothing I can do to help that, that's just the Leo in me letting itself out. I'm here to help people, but it's when they try to tell me I'm wrong when I know **** well I'm right that I start to get cocky. Especially when I quote material from a very respectable astrology site which has taken the traditional authors' meanings of the houses and put them in one place and then I'm still told I'm wrong. As if saying that is going to brush off the fact that I've already proven myself right. I'm not the one calling themselves a professional astrologer and getting my house assignments all messed up.

Excuse me? Me show you? You show me some Traditional authors claiming it's the Eighth house that rules astrology. My SkyScript exerpt already proved my side of the argument.

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Kai: I did not say you were *wrong*. I said *I disagree with you*.There is a difference.
Skyscript is about modern astrology- obviously I've read what Deborah Houlding has to say....so she is ONE person.
Perhaps you could work on dropping *the hint of sarcasm*-its unnecessary.
I can't believe you are refuting the fact that the eighth house rules sex...house 5 may rule casual or romantic sex but as death and rebirth are connected it is just logical that house 8 takes on this meaning..
You can't say that astrology is ruled by house 9 UNLESS you accept that that makes Jupiter the ruler of astrology! Or do you believe that another planet rules house 9??????
In regard to my *calling myself an astrologer and getting the house cusps mixed up*
I have been working as a professional astrologer for about 12 years now...I still make the occasional error when reading a chart- I freely admit to it...I am as fallible as anyone else....Again, being derisive when someone makes an error is a stupid position to take...(You might make an error yourself sometime...).
I am not accustomed to this medium- I have done my charts manually and see clients FACE to face, with their chart in front of me- not flicking back and forwards between windows where its easy to make errors....I already was very open on this forum that I have only been using computers for 2 years and this is the first forum in which I have participated..Undoubtedly i will make errors here...but that won't prevent me giving my time and energy to people genuinely seeking help here.

Wilson: Can you not see that scorpio co-rules Lissa's 1oth house???? ..making MARS co-ruler of her 10th?????
Lillyjgc

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Aright, deal. I'll drop the sarcasm and stick with the passion.

SkyScript is about Modern astrology? Is that why the Outer planets have two articles each? Is that why there is no mention of the Quartet or other asteriodal bodies? Is that why Chiron or other Centaur class objects aren't mentioned at all? Is that why the only quotes I've seen are from Traditional astrologers?

I can't believe you are refuting the fact that the eighth house rules sex

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Well, believe it.

SkyScript: The Houses: Temples of the Sky - Meanings of the Eighth House said:

All matters relating to death, decay, fear, anxiety and loss. The quality and nature of death. Who shall be heir to the deceased. Unexpected inheritance, wills, legacies and testaments of the deceased (note that paternity - wealth from the parents - is also shown by the 4th house).
Money belonging to a partner, spouse or other party. Financial obligations, debts, taxes, loans, losses, money owed to others. (In seeking a good time for a loan, make sure that the ruler of the 2nd house is dignified and strong - a strong 8th house ruler is more likely to indicate favour for the lender).
Transits through this house often show a need to consolidate and accept the loss of elements of life that are no longer fruitful or have served their purpose; the nature of the planet will indicate how the loss is accepted.
Traditional astrology relates the eighth house to crisis, hidden matters, anguish of mind, poison and deadly fears; yet psychological astrology often refers to it as a house of inner transformation and growth. It should be remembered that true transformation follows the burst of creativity that occurs after the lessons of this house have been properly digested. Only by facing our innermost fears are we able to overcome them and move on with the strength of experience and wisdom. But this house is not relevant to the period of growth, its concern is the inhibiting factors that stand in our way. It is a house of personal vulnerability, albeit perhaps a necessary vulnerability from which we may eventually gain. It is wise to avoid any financial gambles or high-risk activities during periods when this house is heavily emphasised.

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No sex. Okay, how about the Fifth house.

SkyScript: The Houses: Temples of the Sky - Meanings of the Fifth House said:

Children, pregnancy, pregnant women, sex of the unborn child. The health and condition of children. If afflicted, trouble and distress from children.
Love affairs, romance, lovemaking, sex, procreation and conception. If afflicted, promiscuity, sexual inhibition, immorality, overindulgence and scandals.
Pleasure, gifts and all pleasant things. Items purchased for the purpose of pleasure and enjoyment. The arts and muses. Dancing, music, merriment. Clothes, fineries and rich, luxurious things.
Horse-racing, betting on sport, lotteries and all forms of gambling and speculation. Speculation on the stock market is often assigned here but where the investment is based upon financial or business decisions the 2nd house has more relevance. Although Ivy Goldstein-Jacobson popularised the notion that it rules speculation on the stock market, she defined its influence as ruling "everything whose outcome is a matter of chance" ([SHA], p.163).
It rules places associated with games and sport such as sporting arenas, resorts, gymnasiums. Also banquets, inns, pubs, taverns, theatres and plays, parks; all places of entertainment and enjoyment. Parties and social occasions; feasts. Matters associated with the leisure industry and those who work in the arts.
Diplomats, ambassadors and agents - those who negotiate as an intermediary with the intention of finding agreement between others.
Hobbies and all things done for personal pleasure and enjoyment.

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Hey hey! I found it!

Therefore, the Fifth house rules sexuality. I actually find this debate pretty silly. Eighth house is greif. Fifth house is pleasure. Hm...now where should we place sex? Greif? Pleasure? Greif? Pleasure? I'm thinking pleasure.

You can't say that astrology is ruled by house 9 UNLESS you accept that that makes Jupiter the ruler of astrology! Or do you believe that another planet rules house 9??????

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Fine, alrighty. Let me think about this. Jupiter is the natural ruler of the higher mind and learning. Jupiter is the greater benefic and can be thought of as divinity. Jupiter is related to Wood which carries the ideas of growth and expansion of self through learning and connecting with that which is higher than ourselves. Yes, okay. I will except that Jupiter can be related to astrology.

Now for you.

You can't say that astrology is ruled by house 8 UNLESS you accept that that makes Saturn the ruler of astrology! Or do you believe that another planet rules house 8?????

However, continuing this idea. Is Mars the ruler of our messages then? Saturn the ruler of our health? Jupiter the ruler of our belongings and talents? Sol the ruler of our homes? Venus the ruler of our children? Mercury the ruler of our pets? Luna the ruler of our open enemies? Saturn the ruler of the money of the deceased? Jupiter the ruler of students? Mars the ruler of our career? Sol the ruler of our ambitions? Venus the ruler of our hidden enemies? See how silly this idea sounds?

This is exactly what I meant by 'X=Y=Z'. X is Y and X is a part of Z, so therefore X=Y=Z. Let's say I am X. My being a male is Y. My being a part of my family is Z. This would make me a male who is a part of my family. So, following the 'X=Y=Z' idea my entire family must be male which is obviously not the case.

See I could solve this whole thing right now with this thought process. We're both wrong. Silly us. Mercury rules astrology and Mercury rules the Sixth house. So, therefore the Sixth house is the house of astrology.

Your turn. Guess I wasn't so good at holding back that sarcasm after all, huh?

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Gomenasai!! I usually don't ever double-post, but I just could not miss this opportunity! So, I was thinking more on the whole 'SkyScript is about modern astrology' thing and it really got me interested about it, so I did a wee bit of research and found this.

Deborah Houlding (born 14 May 1962 in Mansfield) is an English astrologer specializing in traditional astrological methods. She is perhaps best known for her book The Houses: Temples of the Sky, (Ascella, 1996) which was controversial at the time of publication by criticizing the modern tendency to associate astrological house meanings too closely with those of the astrological signs. It called for a reversal of perspective upon the philosophy of house meanings by examining their origin in ancient practice and the consistent thread of application in traditional literature. She is also widely known for her in-depth courses on horary astrology, which have been presented at many international venues.

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Good clean stuff there. A traditional astrologer as author of a modern astrology website. Laughable. I especially enjoyed the part about criticizing people for associating house meanings with the Zodiacal Signs, I know I used to be pretty bad about this, so it's funny to think back on my past, slap myself in the forehead and go 'doh'!!

Deborah Houlding may be one person, Lilly, but her works are basically the reincarnation and Frakenstein's creature of those famous, ancient traditional astrologers.

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

http://www.thelemapedia.org/index.php/House_(astrology)#Application_and_Meaning

http://astrology.aryabhatt.com/astrology_12houses.

http://astrology.aryabhatt.com/astrology_12houses.asp

http://www.astrologyzine.com/what-is-house-8.shtml

http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrology/interpreting/houses/house8.html

http://en.mimi.hu/astrology/eighth_house.html


I could go on....all these links correctly identify house 8 as being the house of sex (and occult matters).
Okay people, make up your own minds.
Kai: I find your manner most offensive.
Lillyjgc

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/eigthhouse.htm

http://www.myastrologybook.com/eighth-house-of-astrology-houses.htm

http://www.astrologycom.com/8th.html

http://www.gotohoroscope.com/houses-in-chart-8th.html

http://www.skyviewzone.com/astrology/houses.htm#house8

Face it Kai- on this you are wrong.
Lillyjgc

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

Sorry Lilly, but I'm definately going to have to go with the astrologers of Tradition rather than those "astrologers" you've linked to who also seem to think the Fourth house is that of the mother or nurturing parent. Quality over quantity my friend.

This is a simple mixup and usage of the astrological alphabet where in Eighth=Scorpio=Mars which is not correct and is exactly what Ms. Houlding's Temples of the Sky book was all about.

There is nothing sexual about the house of Death or Saturn. However, there is sexuality related to the house of pleasure and Venus. I'm sorry if you cannot accept this.

You were obviously wrong about reading anything Deborah Houlding had to say and that SkyScript was a modern astrological website, what else are you wrong about?

By the way, I'm pretty sure I asked for Traditional authors. Not modern fluff.

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

It's a bit strange to see the fundamental dispute between traditional and modern astrology turn into a personal debate between 2 or 3 individuals. One claiming the 8th house rules sex without any good arguments to support it and the other claiming the 8th house doesn't rule sex without any good arguments to support it (*), and then they both post links to validate their views - but of course the traditional astrologer will cite traditional astrology sources and the modern astrologer will cite modern astrology sources and we're back at square one - the fundamental dispute between traditional and modern astrology. I don't think it should turn this personal because it's not about the abilities or talent of some specific astrologer in this forum, so trying to show this specific astrologer is incompetent will not solve the fundamental issues. BTW, I do find that "neo-traditional" astrologers, after "discovering the light", tend to become a bit fanatic about it. OK, passionate. But this passion can be offensive at times.

(*) And no, to me the pleasure/grief argument is not very convincing. For some people sex is indeed that simple, much like the simple pleasure of a nice sweet cream cake. For others sex is a profound emotional experience that has much deeper and possibly darker psychological meanings than just pleasure. Of course, one may "solve" it by, say, having Scorpio in the fifth house or something like that, but the point is that merely relating sex with pleasure as the singular evidence for why it's ruled exclusively by the 5th house and has nothing to do with the 8th is not enough to convince me. I think it might be more convincing if we'll remember sex originally, before the pill, was not just about pleasure, but had something to do with propagating too , and the 5th house is related to children.

I'm not getting into this debate because I know nothing. So I'm asking questions. A couple of years ago or so I read online some research on ancient astrology, sorry I don't have the link. In ancient times there was also a house system of 8 houses begining with birth in the 1st house and ending with death in the 8th. It's pretty likely the significance of the 8th house as the house of death was derived from this 8 house system although a 12 house system was finally adopted, so I find this significance a bit inconsistent with the 12 house system. What do you think? If the 8th house is the house of death, which we know it is even in modern astrology (even if interpreted more figuratively), then what's the meaning of all the houses "beyond" it? It made sense with this particular ancient 8th house system because it was constructed in a way that the 1st house was birth and in the 8th house everyting just came to an end, but what's the logic behind it being the house of death in the 12 house system?

For now I don't have any preference based on facts or logic between traditional and modern astrology because I don't know enough. I prefer the modern 8th house interpretations for reasons that are not factual or logical - I simply have a bunch of personal planets in the 8th house . When I read traditional 8th house interpretations I get all depressed and consider suicide - not because my life now is THAT bad, but because they tell me everything I'll try to do with my life is going to fail horribly and then I'll die a violent death. I might get an inheritance though, if that's any consolation. But that inheritance might come from my husband - why get involved if I know now the guy is gonna die? Who cares about his f---ing inheritance? Reading traditional 8th house interpretations I'm more likely to die of fear before I get to die that violent death they predict for me.

Reading modern astrology interpretations, on the other hand, is giving me some insights which seem true for me. It doesn't mean these interpretations are valid, maybe it's just a coincidence, but I certainly prefer them because with the traditional interpretations I just have nothing to work with, they're not even interesting since the way I'm going to die, for instance, is not the kind of information I'm really interested in - even if it's true then you just know that and move on, there's nothing you can do with that kind of knowledge.

The same thing with Saturn - it squares my Sun and Mars - that's pretty bad traditionally and there's nothing I can do. While modern astrology offers some insights I can really work with and have some results.

Isn't traditional astrology more about knowing your fate, good or bad, and just accepting it? Some planets and placements are malefic and some fortunate and that's it, nothing you can do about it?

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

and the other claiming the 8th house doesn't rule sex without any good arguments to support it

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This just goes to show, thousands of years of astrological tradition does not a good argument make. -.-'

And no, to me the pleasure/grief argument is not very convincing.

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No, it's really not. It's just something I came up off the top of my head. I do believe that the Fifth is the house of sex because of the Fifth's being about our children and the connection there is obvious. The pleasure/greif thing was just something I came up with in a hurried thought, but the fact that it reflects Venus and Saturn is something that can be taken into account.

a profound emotional experience

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This is something I've always thought was kind of funny about the Eighth house. I'm not trying to be nitpicky or anything, but it's just something humorous to muse over. The Eighth house is, apparently, the house of profound emotional experiences. As opposed to what? Shallow emotional experiences? Well, what house reflects those?

A couple of years ago or so I read online some research on ancient astrology, sorry I don't have the link. In ancient times there was also a house system of 8 houses begining with birth in the 1st house and ending with death in the 8th. It's pretty likely the significance of the 8th house as the house of death was derived from this 8 house system although a 12 house system was finally adopted, so I find this significance a bit inconsistent with the 12 house system. What do you think? If the 8th house is the house of death, which we know it is even in modern astrology (even if interpreted more figuratively), then what's the meaning of all the houses "beyond" it?

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Ooh, that's pretty deep. I have no knowledge of this, I've started doing some research about it, but all I've found so far is either references to the Eighth house or realty. :S Anyway, it poses a very, very interesting question. The Eighth house is death, so what about what's beyond that? Well, I can kind of give answers for the Ninth and Twelfth, but as for the Tenth and Eleventh...I don't know.

Anyway, since the Ninth house is about mysticism, divination, and spirituality perhaps it works as a "Second the Eighth" or what death has. When you die, you're emersed in the spiritual realm which is reflected by the Ninth house's significations. The Twelfth house is that of the hidden and private side of things, the unknown and occultic as well as those creepy witches you hear about on the news. Which again is a profoundly spiritual house. It's really interesting to think of it this, that the two "houses of spirit" (I guess) follow after the house of death.

Good stuff. If you ever find that link, toss it my way. Like I said, I'm looking, but I don't want to buy a house... ^.^'

BTW, I do find that "neo-traditional" astrologers, after "discovering the light", tend to become a bit fanatic about it.

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Then color me 'fanatic' buddy. ^.^

Look, I don't at all consider myself a traditional astrologer. Psh, I use the Outers and Quartet too much for that to ever happen. Also, I have no problem with the expansion of houses by adding to them things that fit their themes. Not a problem at all. I understand that as humans evolve and develop and discover, we're going to come across things that haven't been pinned down in a specific house yet. So, by all means, pin them in a house and get it over with, just make sure it fits the theme. What I don't like, however, is when we as modern age astrologers think we can relocate house meanings, as if no one will notice and it's not going to cause issues like this. To say that we can do this - to me - says that we are more spiritually advanced than the people in the cities of Babylon, Athens, Cairo, and Alexandria. These peoples' entire lives were dependant on such positions, we just do this for fun in comparison.

Hi Everyone,
This is my first post as I am an "Idiot level " amateur and I was going to ask which book anyone would recommend in order to be able to study the houses and what governs what.
Obviously there is some slight disagreements between yourselves as to what belogs where.
Makes for lively discussion anyway!
As I said, I truly am basic level,any more basic and were talking singlle cell organisms!
I am always amazed when reading professional astrologers comments on charts as they seem to know under which house every possible object and event above quantum level seems to belong,where do they learn all this stuff? Is any of it instinct? (In which case I shall carrying on pursuing my alternative hobby of Sudoku....!)
I will apologise now for my mind numbing ignorance on this subject but I've got to start somewhere and God loves a tryer(I use the term God very loosly!)
I joined this particuar thread as the title seemed pertinent to my enquiry.

I think SkyScript is the best when it comes to house assignments. Obviously, right? The author of this page went and revived all of the ancient traditional astrologers and sewed all their placements into one, big Frakenstein's creature and it makes it a lot easier to track down what a house means this way, I think.

Starts with the First house.

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

tikana said:

Lissa

Astrology IS NOT ruled by NEPTUNE nor PISCES

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What did I miss? I don't recall Lissa saying that.

What a laugh! exact science is being ruled by a pair of vague sushi.. LOL yeah right! You can consider astrology to be ruled by any planet but it would be wrong.

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Some people pay very little attention to Uranus and Neptune, while other people do.

Astrology is a huge subject. Let's forget about rulership for a moment. That was not what Lissa seemed to have been asking about, and a rather rude discussion has been moved away from this topic.

It would be more useful to consider what the positions of Uranus and Neptune mean in Lissa's chart, what the house placements mean, and what aspects to those planets show.

And those who are conservative, who prefer to ignore these planets as unimportant, would help everyone who IS interested in them by being less combative and condescending.

Thoughtfully but a bit pointedly,

Gaer

Re: Could I make a career as an astrologer?

obvious deletion

Mmmmm,
A bit confused? I have been reading about astrology and studying it (at a very basic level myself) and found it to be a beautiful art open for interpretation, but it does have its rules. Right?
I do not see what age has to do with this. I am disgusted about that thought that one should "mature" before they handle something like astrology, with it's deep issues and meanings. I must say that I myself have matured through the study of this artform, and have become a better person because of it. That is the beauty of astrology is that it allows those with open minds and open spirits to culminate together, share views and ideas and grow, not to stifle or put down anyone no matter what age they are!
I guess it is the aquarian in me!
I myself was reading and was not even going to "go there" but when I saw that there was age discrimination taking place, or shall I say a judgement on one's maturity I had to say something.
Both of you have very strong views, it is interesting to see them displayed, it is human nature to have opinions, but it does not make one immature to openly talk about them. I tend to think that opinions minus the hints of sarcasm is interesting, it's human nature at work.