Need Chart for Josef Fritzel the sick & demented Austrian Molester

millionora

Well-known member
Hello,

I have been searching for the birth data of Josef Fritzel the terrible man

who molested his own daughter and fathered children with her in Austria.

If anyone has his birthdata can you please post it, so that we may see what

it was in his birthchart that led him to be sick and dimented as he was/is.

Thank you,

love,light,truth

blessings.
 
I have just looked up his chart, only using his birthdate. Pluto symbolises all that is taboo, abuse etc. Josef has a t,square with Pluto at the Apex. A Sun/Mars/Pluto stressed configuration.

I will host the chart and post it. :)
 
josef.gif
 

millionora

Well-known member
Thanks a Mill Shining Ray!

this demon of a man is another reason this kingdom should come to an end!

Thank you always.

Love,light,truth

blessings!
 
S

starnoud

He was born on the same day (9 April) as I was born. But I am glad my Sun is in 19º58 Aries... lol
So go ahead, judge this monster!

As long as you think of the possibility that everyone can change into one. Or am I wrong ?

Before some mod is gonna do something with my post here, lemme add a bit more astrology:
I think it's interesting to see that his Chiron is exact square Saturn. (And his Sun more or less conjunct their midpoint ?)
Well that's it for now. (I have been gazing at the same chart for a while too, last week).

Let's enjoy this day in freedom.

Some psychology : http://health.blogs.foxnews.com/2009/03/18/inside-the-mind-of-josef-fritzel/
 
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gesso

Well-known member
just musing here....
if he is pisces rising...then saturn is close to his ac...i know hes old..but doesnt he seem very saturnish in his look?
This would also put gemini on his 4th cusp ( 'two' homes?). His cancer moon would also be in his 4th in that case..Which could make sense with pluto on his MC having been in opposition to his moon for the last year or so.
This puts jupiter in scorpio in his 8th opposite exactly venus in taurus in his 2nd...
and the ruler of his 8th(pluto) into his 5th house
 
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Nexus7

Well-known member
That Neptune Saturn oppositon is exact. It would be tempting to place the Ascendant in Pisces, putting Saturn on his Ascendant in the 12th, Neptune in the 6th.
 
S

starnoud

gesso said:
just musing here....
if he is pisces rising...then saturn is close to his ac...i know hes old..but doesnt he seem very saturnish in his look?
This would also put gemini on his 4th cusp ( 'two' homes?). His cancer moon would also be in his 4th in that case..Which could make sense with pluto on his MC having been in opposition to his moon for the last year or so.
This puts jupiter in scorpio in his 8th opposite exactly venus in taurus in his 2nd...
and the ruler of his 8th(pluto) into his 5th house
Amazing! That would be a good start for sure! And Uranus transitting his first house... well, definitely a good choice this Pisces rising.
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
....but maybe a little too good to be true. The Uranus transit did seem to let the cat out of the bag, or rather out of the 12th House though, what about transiting Saturn?

And how come the wife didn't know what was going on? Again, the astrology of a Pisces Ascendant could help with that question......

I believe the Suns were conjunct in the case of the daughter.
 

gesso

Well-known member
have been reading about this on wikipedia..

"Fritzl claims that his pathological behavior is innate. He admits that he planned to lock his daughter up during his prison stint for the earlier rape conviction so that he could contain and express his "evil side". He said, "I was born to rape, and I held myself back for a relatively long time. I could have behaved a lot worse than locking up my daughter".[9] The forensic psychiatrist diagnosed Fritzl as having severe combined personality disorder and a sexual disorder and recommended that Fritzl receive psychiatric care for the rest of his life"
 

starlink

Well-known member
Moon and Pluto could actually be situated in his 5th house. Moon ruling it, very fertile of course and Moon sextile Uranus (extreme fertility and unusual children). Pluto square Uranus, a sadistic and violent aspect and Pluto square Mars, just as nasty. Chiron squares Saturn! and ruled by Mercury squaring his Moon.
Even if it would not fall in his 5th, Cancer points towards home, children, "caring and nurturing" (in a sick way I would say). If Chiron would fall in his 4th house, then it shows that he himself also has a big wound there, maybe being the cause of this unspeakable situation.
 
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aquarius7000

Well-known member
Hi,

I wonder, if I really want to discuss perversion and savagery personified in the form of this bloke, but for Astrology's sake.

Anyways, I will go without the guesstimated Asc (which is always a very tricky affair and decides the fate - as per planets and signs - of the other 11 houses).
Ok, the first thing that I notice is Merc (thinking and ability to reason) aspected by Pluto (manipulation, obsession and our hidden, dark side), something I very recently also noticed in the charts of two other odiously sick people: Paul Bernardo and Karla Homolka on the 'Serial Killers' thread. However, a single aspect alone doesn't say enough about a person and certainly does not singularly justify such activities. So, let's look further.

Pluto in Fritzl's chart is further on very active. Besides the generational aspects it forms with the likes of Uranus and Saturn, look at its square with Jupiter, which is also a long transit, but Jupiter takes this easy energy of the trine (with Pluto) and transfers it to his powerful Venus (relationships, others, also value-systems) almost one-to-one (exact aspect). Venus is already under the obsessive control of Pluto through a sextile (easy energies). Pluto (violence) also further maligns his high-voltage Aries Sun (already Martian), which is also afflicted by Mars (agression, hostility and sexual drive). Though the square between Pluto and Mars in Libra is quite wide, but all the aspects seen together, ie esp of Pluto's to Sun, Mars, Ven and Mer, seems to clarify that this person's sadistic and obsessive mind (Plu-Mer) thought (Mer) that he could use his brutish sexual energies (Mars and Pluto), so embedded in his being (Sun & Mars), to control and manipulate (Pluto) others (Venus and Libran Mars).

With Merc in a square to Moon, Fritzl struggles between thinking and emotions, which, in turn, through the sextile (supporting energies) to Uranus are fairly unpredictable, seeking constant change and excitement (in his case, of this sort). These charged emotions are perhaps kept a bit under morbid control by Saturn (stability, also stubborness, inferiority complex). As Starnoud points out, this Saturn afflicts his Chiron (wounds and the ability to heal), which is in the sign of thinking and the power to distinguish between good and bad (Gemini). The square between both the signs of fear and wounds, but also of wisdom blocks the energies.

Think that should be enough.

AQ7
 

Claire19

Well-known member
millionora said:
Hello,

I have been searching for the birth data of Josef Fritzel the terrible man

who molested his own daughter and fathered children with her in Austria.

If anyone has his birthdata can you please post it, so that we may see what

it was in his birthchart that led him to be sick and dimented as he was/is.

Thank you,

love,light,truth

I


blessings.
have to wonder how he managed it without arousing wife's suspicions. Was she aware???? Did he have the help of an older son????? How was it possible to have his daughter and three children living there for so long without detection. To take food to them and clothing etc.......It boggles the mind.
 

lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
I too noticed the aspects involving pluto- but look also at the orbs involved here:
mars squ pluto- 9 deg orb, and separating because mars is retrograde.**
sun squ pluto-5 deg orb-applying
jupiter trine to pluto-2 deg orb
pluto and uranus separate from a square by 7 degrees.**
saturn applies to a sesqisquadrate to pluto- 3 deg orb
venus applies a sextile to pluto-2 degree orb
mercury separates from the trine to pluto by 7 degrees.**

Personally, I think these orbs I've asterixed are too wide.
I think playing *guess the ascendant* is not a very objective or scientific way to look at this astrologically.We can only consider the facts. So the moon is excluded because it changed signs that day (if indeed we actually have the right birth date).

Aq7, you said:
Venus is already under the obsessive control of Pluto through a sextile (easy energies).

Venus in sextile to pluto is hardly *obsessive*.A square or opposition could be though.
Usually this aspect confers a degree of financial proficiency and *devotion*.In synastry it's usually regarded positively. In horary it would be read positively by a modern interpretation.. In natal I would consider it to be helpful for growth through relationships or whatever houses venus was Lord of in the chart.

Pluto (violence) also further maligns his high-voltage Aries Sun (already Martian), which is also afflicted by Mars (agression, hostility and sexual drive).

Personally I don't see Pluto as *violence* in itself. Pluto is *death, regeneration, transformation.* If Pluto is negatively aspected by a malefic then that ability to transform or *grow in a healthy way* may be impacted.
The sesquisquadrate to saturn may be a factor here.It is a most uneasy energy.

Though the square between Pluto and Mars in Libra is quite wide,

Too wide-mars is retro, so separating even further...I really think we're stretching things orb- wise here.

but all the aspects seen together, ie esp of Pluto's to Sun, Mars, Ven and Mer, seems to clarify that this person's sadistic and obsessive mind (Plu-Mer) thought (Mer) that he could use his brutish sexual energies (Mars and Pluto), so embedded in his being (Sun & Mars), to control and manipulate (Pluto) others (Venus and Libran Mars).

Well honestly I'm more concerned with the jupiter/venus opposition-which is exact, in fixed signs.
The sun mars is a mutually separating one (4.deg) so would be exerting an influence, but a waning one.
Mars is rather weak, powerless to act, in Libra and especially so when retrograde.It bestows a feeling of *powerlessness* on the native.Other than the separating square to pluto-9 deg, mars only applies a semi-sextile to neptune..reiterating the theme of mars being weak and ineffective.
The sun also applies a semi sextile to saturn and not much else.

With Merc in a square to Moon,
We really dont know the moon's position so I don't think we can assume this aspect exists.If it doesn't, then in fact there are no aspects involving Mercury.That separating trine to jupiter was about 9 degrees ago.

Fritzl struggles between thinking and emotions, which, in turn, through the sextile (supporting energies) to Uranus are fairly unpredictable, seeking constant change and excitement (in his case, of this sort). These charged emotions are perhaps kept a bit under morbid control by Saturn (stability, also stubborness, inferiority complex).

I'm wondering how Saturn in pisces could really keep anything *under control *-it's a very nebulous energy.Saturn applies (6 deg) an opposition to neptune which would really be a very difficult aspect to deal with in terms of *being real*.Unless saturn is well placed in his chart, which we can't assume, its not got the strength to hold this life together very well .It separates by 6deg from Uranus. and applies a sesqui. to pluto..that could be a bit nasty, but the sat/ur sextile would be somewhat generational-but separating so not very active in the chart.

As Starnoud points out, this Saturn afflicts his Chiron (wounds and the ability to heal), which is in the sign of thinking and the power to distinguish between good and bad (Gemini). The square between both the signs of fear and wounds, but also of wisdom blocks the energies.

I agree that Chiron is significant in this chart.It is the apex of the T-square between saturn and neptune. Perhaps this aspect in itself describes one so wounded that he cannot judge morality.
Overall, I think it is significant that there are several almost unaspected
planets, and mars, jupiter and neptune all retrograde.
I suspect we would see an afflicted moon if we were to get a true birth time.
(I just noticed-this chart is set for noon yet the sun is below the horizon??)

If we keep the orbs down to around 5 degrees,the sun's applying square to pluto looks significant but a lot of people have this aspect who are not demented or cruel, so in itself it doesn't explain his behaviour.
Cheers
Lillyjgc
 
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S

starnoud

I am absolutely sure that, again, without Lilith there is no essence. Meaning, I bet Lilith's role in this (natal) chart would turn out to be important. It is in the very very end of Leo (you can imagine that it progressed into Virgo at a very early age !) and , maybe I never mentioned this one (much) but the corrected Lilith will tell even more.... for I calculate his corrected Lilith around 12 Virgo which is conjunct Neptune. And there we start to have a clue, because also Neptune is , because of the Saturn in Pisces, very important here. Etcetera.
I also think that we can draw a better portrait by using midpoints, well that is my experience so far. It would explain a bit why this man turned out to be a monster while my dad is a gentle man.... he was born 6 days before mister monster. :eek:
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Claire19 said:
have to wonder how he managed it without arousing wife's suspicions.
Yes, Claire, this is exactly the first question that came to my mind, too. Where was the mum? Maybe there's more about it in the papers, though I haven't seen much.


lillyjgc said:
I too noticed the aspects involving pluto- but look also at the orbs involved here....Personally, I think these orbs I've asterixed are too wide.
If you are referring to my post, I mentioned clearly that the Plu-Mars aspect is "quite wide", before continuing with the explanation. Similarly, I also mentioned that Plu-Ura, even Plu-Sat are generational aspects,

Aq7, you said: Venus is already under the obsessive control of Pluto through a sextile (easy energies).
Venus in sextile to pluto is hardly *obsessive*.A square or opposition could be though. Usually this aspect confers a degree of financial proficiency and *devotion*.In synastry it's usually regarded positively.
Well, that is your point of view to which I disagree. Just because it is a sextile (and it is a 2° sextile here, so tight), does not have to make it better, or 'financially' important (or at least not only/mainly financially important). Neither are we discussing synastry here, but the Pluto aspects in 'this man's chart alone'. A sextile simply shows easy flow of energies, YET, it is upon the native to use these easy energies the way he wants, too, an e.g. of which we have seen here. The sextile (being weaker than a trine or a conjunction) can perhaps show somewhat milder obsession than a more major aspect, though how mild it was in this case, we have seen in the span of time he did to his daughter what we did.

Personally I don't see Pluto as *violence* in itself. Pluto is *death, regeneration, transformation.* If Pluto is negatively aspected by a malefic then that ability to transform or *grow in a healthy way* may be impacted.
Pluto, like anything, has two sides to itself. Pluto is more often than not involved in violent tendencies of some sort and obsession. These tendencies can be more dire, if other planets like Mars are also involved. Also, in Astrology, many things are interpreted 'in context', 'which' is very crystal clear in this brute's case. Person A could use Plu-Ven aspects to earn money, as an e.g.., whilst person B could be involved in obsessive relationships. When studying this 'particular' native's chart, we (or at least I wasn't) are not talking about general astrological explanations (which form the basis), but those as 'intricated' and involved in a particular native's chart, who we very well know by now has used the planetary and aspectual energies for what purposes.

One more thing, though the meaning is quite clear, you can hardly say that "Pluto is negatively aspected by a malefic". Pluto, the biggest malefic (if we are talking in terms of malefics and benefics ie) actually 'aspects' every other planet.

Re Mer-Moon square you said:
We really dont know the moon's position so I don't think we can assume this aspect exists.If it doesn't, then in fact there are no aspects involving Mercury.
Though we do not know the birth time, yet firstly, we are talking about the two fastest moving bodies here. Secondly, if, due to the birth time, the Moon would go back a bit, the square to Merc will become only tighter; and, if the Moon were to move forward, it will become a bit wider, but the Moon-Mer orb that I have now is about 3°, so even if that doubles, the square will still be very valid. We are talking about a square, a major aspect, not a minor one like quintiles, etc.

I'm wondering how Saturn in pisces could really keep anything *under control *-it's a very nebulous energy.Saturn applies (6 deg) an opposition to neptune which would really be a very difficult aspect to deal with in terms of *being real*
Saturn in Pisces is not lifeless, only more watery than earthy. Neither is it in detriment or fall in Pisces (even in Cancer, it makes its presence felt, I have it). It can very well exercise its control, only not as strongly as it can in, say, Cap. However, it is not deemed useless or powerless in Pisces.
Further, regarding the Nep-Sat opp, you are considering the 6° orb (yes, applying) between two rather slow-moving planets (which even I'd consider), whilst otherwise you *asterisk* out Plu-Merc's orb of 7°, though Mer is the second fastest planet, and the aspect between Plu and Mer is a trine (a very major aspect, like conj and opp), even if separating!! Orbs is always a debatable topic, but having very often tested in my own chart and that of many others I know well, I know that, as far as conjunctions, oppositions and trines go, even 7° to 8° orbs are quite 'influential'. In fact, in my own case, I even feel the 9° Plu-Sun trine.


:)AQ7
 
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lillyjgc

Senior Member, Educational board Editor
Hi
I very much doubt that from this chart as it appears above anyone would *pick* this person as the doer of the actions he is accused of.We have seen far *worse* charts here on the Forum, belonging to members. It's very easy to try to * fit the chart* to *explain* his actions.
I think the fact that mars separates from the square to pluto by 9 degrees IS significant.But it's usually accepted that a separating aspect does not wield as much influence, therefore to use a 9 degree orb for a separating aspect seems too wide in my opinion.
To say that *every planet aspects pluto* is only the case if one allows large orbs:
7deg separation from the square to uranus may be considered out of orb too-many many people would have had that aspect closer...
I don't think an orb of 3 degrees to an applying sesqui is excessive (saturn to pluto)
As jupiter was retro at the time we know it will be back to trine pluto again and only separates by 2 degrees...definitely still close enough to count.
An applying sextile of venus to pluto with an orb of 2 degrees would count.But how bad an aspect is it? It's usually regarded as an easy energy and I agree with you Aqu7000 that it's up to the native as to *how* an energy is harnessed, or managed. My point is though, that the venus /jupiter opposition is exact and obviously far more relevant as aspects go, than the sextile of venus to Pluto.
Sun square pluto can definitely cause power issues, but the opposition of the sun to mars is actually closer in orb, even though separating. I would think this aspect causes a stronger tendency to control and violence than the upcoming square of the sun to pluto.
The reason I exclude the pluto/merc is because it is 7 deg separating,where its influence is decreasing, whilst the sat/neptune opposition is mutually applying.
I do think it makes a difference whether a planet is moving toward an aspect or departing from it.Others may disagree.
The moon can only be about 6 degrees different from the one shown on the chart.
At midnight the moon was 28 gemini..so if he was born close to midnight it was in gemini . If born closer to midnight at the other end of the day, the moon was at 10 cancer.That would bring the square to mars into orb and also the square to the sun, but if it was in gemini when he was born it would be out of orb with the squares to both mars and the sun, so I don't think we can assume too much about the moon- except to say it either applies to or separates from a square to mercury and if he was born later in the day it could be separating from the square to mercury by as much as 9-degrees. The moon would also be trine Saturn.Just before midnight at the end of his birthday, the sun has moved to 19 deg Aries. Isn't this degree supposedly dignified? Exalted? or something?
I think this is a case when the houses really do need to be known.The man was evidently very secretive but I dont see that in this chart. If neptune were on an angle though, maybe.
The sun likes to be in Aries, venus likes to be in Taurus, the moon likes to be in cancer...three planets exalted by sign.it's hard to match this chart with the man's alleged deeds.
The sun has no positive aspects.Mercury makes only separating aspects.Venus is harshly aspected by jupiter.(opp). Mars is the most detrimented planet of all- in sign of venus, retro, opposed by the sun..Maybe squared by the moon.
Jupiter is retrograde in scorpio-so disposited by a weak mars. No positive Saturn aspects, other than a trine from the moon.Saturn in jupiter's sign-which brings us back to that venus/jupiter opposition.To my knowledge Saturn is peregrine in pisces.
I hope we can get a confirmed birth time at some point.
Cheers
Lillyjgc
 
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Nexus7

Well-known member
I just don't think we have enough information about the man, to be able to judge his chart, without even a hint of his birth time. That is why it is hard not to want to do a little ascendant-spotting.

The shape of his mouth seems a litle Piscean, but maybe we shall all have to wait and see if a birth time gets released for him.
 
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aquarius7000

Well-known member
I very much doubt that from this chart as it appears above anyone would *pick* this person as the doer of the actions he is accused of.We have seen far *worse* charts here on the Forum, belonging to members. It's very easy to try to * fit the chart* to *explain* his actions.

What was said earlier was: "Also, in Astrology, many things are interpreted 'in context', 'which' is very crystal clear in this brute's case."
This means that we (quite often) know the context before (when doing natal charts, at least) and then try to understand the energies of what aspects could the native of this chart (whose history is open to all now, Fritzl) have used. Surely many on and off this site have similar, even worse aspects/charts/whatever; but, like the example I gave in my previous post: "Person A could use Plu-Ven aspects to earn money, as an e.g.., whilst person B could be involved in obsessive relationships."

As to your point: "It's very easy to try to * fit the chart* to *explain* his actions." Well, I ask myself what else are we doing on this forum (except in horary and electional astro) with each and every natal chart that we discuss/interpret/delineate. Everytime a person says: What in my chart shows that I have a depressive nature?; we jump and say, look at those nasty Saturn-Sun or Saturn-Moon aspects (as an e.g.). What in my chart indicates that my relationships end so abruptly? and we say, hey look at that Ura in an aspect to your Ven or you Moon (as an e.g.)!!!!

The fact of the matter (in this case) is that we, Astrology students, have a confirmation in the case of Fritzl, who *chose* to use his Plutonic/Saturnine/Uranian and Martian energies the way he did. And we are trying to understand the Astrology behind it based on his natal chart. Others with similar aspects (like myself: a tight Sat-Mars-Plu t-square) use it for other purposes. After all there's *lots* in life you can do with the energies of those nine planets and their aspects with eachother (some other important factors they call breeding, free-will, environment, etc). But then, yes, you agreed to it later in your post that different people harness energies differently.:)


To say that *every planet aspects pluto* is only the case if one allows large orbs:
7deg separation from the square to uranus may be considered out of orb too-many many people would have had that aspect closer...
I really wonder where/which post you got *that* bit from:confused:. Perhaps you are confusing it with: "Pluto in Fritzl's chart is further on very active." 'Very active' is obviously different from *that* bit;).
And, while we are at it, once again, to take your sentence: *every planet aspects pluto*. Pluto 'in general and not in this chap's chart' aspects other planets and not the other way round (IMO).

As to your sentence: "7deg separation from the square to uranus may be considered out of orb too-many many people would have had that aspect closer..." Once again, the only thing I said about Pluto-Ura was: "Besides the generational aspects it forms with the likes of Uranus and Saturn" (with the 'it' there being for Plu), and did not even bother to dwell upon it (Plu-Ura) a second longer, as, the aspect is not only rather generational, but, because both are such slow-moving planets, and a 6°50' orb is too wide for me, too. So I wonder why you keep getting in the Plu-Ura aspect, whilst I, in my posts, mainly concentrated on Pluto's aspects to non-outer planets (not Ura/Nep, even Sat), hence more personal.


I don't think an orb of 3 degrees to an applying sesqui is excessive (saturn to pluto)
Who said it was excessive :confused:? I didn't even bother to look at the minor aspects between two such slow-moving planets, as there seems to be enough other 'proof' or explaining factors in the chart for me, at least. Perhaps you were just explaining and I missed something.:)


An applying sextile of venus to pluto with an orb of 2 degrees would count.But how bad an aspect is it? It's usually regarded as an easy energy and I agree with you Aqu7000 that it's up to the native as to *how* an energy is harnessed, or managed. My point is though, that the venus /jupiter opposition is exact and obviously far more relevant as aspects go, than the sextile of venus to Pluto.
Well, how bad the Plu-Ven sextile can be, we have seen, though this is not to say that the sextile is a bad aspect, or that Plu-Ven is solely responsible for Fritzl's actions, which is why I bothered to delineate the chart further and said right at the onset of my first post itself : "a single aspect alone doesn't say enough about a person and certainly does not singularly justify such activities. So, let's look further."

Anybody practising Astrology, after learning about such a crime, would look at Pluto (and Mars, and Saturn..), which is what I did, too, and tried to understand how *this guy* could have used *his* Plu-Ven; Plu-Sun, etc, etc energies. I wasn't comparing Jup-Venus' exact opposition with Plu-Venus' sextile. You have to see the interplay, and, in his chart, we clearly see that Pluto is in tight aspects to both: Ven and Jup, so the nature of it's energy 'influences' both these planets, with the icing on this cake (though more bitter than sweet) being that both these planets, Jup & Ven, also tightly aspect each other. This, IMO, his actions have a lot to do with these three planets.


The reason I exclude the pluto/merc is because it is 7 deg separating,where its influence is decreasing, whilst the sat/neptune opposition is mutually applying.
I do think it makes a difference whether a planet is moving toward an aspect or departing from it.Others may disagree.
Well, separating and applying aspects make a difference, though actually more in horary, as there you always look at the 'development' of the situation while studying the chart. However, here we are looking at a natal chart, which is a *fixed* moment in time = the TOB of the native, with the natal chart reflecting the fundament and basic tendencies. To see how the native/his life will 'develop', we look at the 'transits' and usually not at the applying and separating aspects in his/her natal chart. But then this is my opinion.

Yet, to use the 'separating-applying' language, we note that the Pluto-Merc trine (major aspect, which allows for 7°orbs) is *not* a separating but an applying one, as Mercury is in forward motion and moving towards the slow-moving planet, Pluto.

As to the Nep-Sat opposition, well that again is a generational aspect between two quite slow-moving planets and, though mutually applying, in a 6°orb (isn't that too much for an aspect between two slow moving planets?).


The moon......so I don't think we can assume too much about the moon- except to say it either applies to or separates from a square to mercury and if he was born later in the day it could be separating from the square to mercury by as much as 9-degrees.
Oh dear, I will let that separation and application be now, but will just say that we can all see that there is a major aspect between the Moon and Merc, namely a square; and that, since we have no TOB, we should perhaps look at a mean/average in terms of degrees, the aspect of which then would count between these two fastest moving bodies.

I hope we can get a confirmed birth time at some point.
Perhaps, if someone wants to spend so much time on Fritzl. I, for my part, am at the end of my tether. He is been sent to jail with some well-deserved Pluto and Nep aspects in his transits' chart, and I am done with him.
Lord, I hope I haven't made too many syntax errors as my natal Uranus in the third and Aqua Merc do not possess the virtue of patience to 'carefully' read through this marathon of a post.:p


:)AQ7
 
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