What's your take on retrograde planets?

haileyscomet

Well-known member
Retrograde planets bother me a lot because there are way too many contradictory opinions on this. Though Astrology is subjective, everyone always seems to be confused on retrograde planets the most.

Do you believe they are just optical illusions and shouldn't be important in Astrology?

Do you believe a retrograde planet becomes weak?

Do you believe it still acts like a planet in a direct motion but you feel the energies more internally?

Do you believe retrograde planets become stronger (and exalted) when placed in bad houses, positions and they become weaker when placed in good houses?
 
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byjove

Account Closed
I also find that there is often very different interpretations on this, and it's confusing. So I'm keen to learn more, sign me up!

p.s. JupiterAsc, how are they considered in traditional or Hellenistic? I've no idea.
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
I also find that there is often very different interpretations on this, and it's confusing. So I'm keen to learn more, sign me up!

p.s. JupiterAsc, how are they considered in traditional or Hellenistic? I've no idea.
byjove, I'm no expert but I understand that retrogradation is considered significant by Hellenistic astrologers http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf :smile:

Jupiter for example is currently very bright when seen in the night sky and that's because retrogradation occurs when Jupiter is very close to Earth Except for Mercury and Venus who, because they lie between the Earth and Sun are not visible during retrogradation.


If we have difficulty with a specific planet during its retrograde, it is often because we have resistance to let go, to redefine our lives, a fear of changing, moving on, growing. Mercury retrogrades provide a good example. How many times do you hear someone say: "I hate when Mercury is retrograde." The difficulty with Mercury retrogrades are more obvious because it often involves relinquishing modes of thinking, of how things are or "should" be something many people have difficulty doing and about daily logistical aspects of our lives. http://www.lunarplanner.com/HCpages/SynodicCycle.html Synodic Astrology: Synodic Cycles and Planetary Retrogrades and Cycles of Growth in Consciousness
 
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Carris

Well-known member
There might be something to retrogrades. Astrologers caution people to be careful during mercury retrograde and to not start anything new during that time - "expect everything to go backwards while mercury is going backwards".

Astrologer Arlene Kramer says that "Astrologers have identified three retrograde planet situations that create enough disorder to warrant special caution. These are Mercury, Mars and Saturn." and "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong during Mercury Retrograde." She also cautions "never buy a car when mars is retrograde" and that a business started while Saturn retrograde is likely to only last a year.

John McCormick's "The Book of Retrogrades" analyzes the statistics of retrograde planets. One striking finding was the relation between Retrograde Neptune and World War II Generals - they had it 92% instead of 44%.

He also found that the number of retrograde planets in a chart was more significant than the actual identity of the planets:

Two retrograde planets (29%): People are drawn to and like and accept those who have two retrograde planets in the natal horoscope

Three retrograde planets (26%): Determination to excel in some speciality

One retrograde planet (18%): Independent, can work alone and achieve alone, does not need company to be happy

Four retrograde planets (12%): Writers, who withdraw and seek expression in private, solitary professions

No retrograde planets (7.7%): Unique in their perseverance to attain their goals. Found a lot in athletes and dancers. Found in unexpectedly high number (36%!) of the charts of United States Presidents

http://www.arlenekramer.net/astrology15.asp

I found this to be true in my case. Does anyone else find this true for themselves?
 

Moog

Well-known member
One striking finding was the relation between Retrograde Neptune and World War II Generals - they had it 92% instead of 44%.

That's interesting Carris. There's a lot more I'd like to know about the sample there.

But I find statements like this far too vague to be meaningful;

Three retrograde planets (26%): Determination to excel in some speciality

Personally I have 0 retrograde planets in my chart, but it certainly applies to me.
 

Anachiel

Well-known member
Retrograde planets bother me a lot because there are way too many contradictory opinions on this. Though Astrology is subjective, everyone always seems to be confused on retrograde planets the most.

Bingo! You nailed it! At least from a horary point of view. That is one of the things it can do to a person if the retrograde planet signifies them. not so much in natal astrology, though.

Do you believe they are just optical illusions and shouldn't be important in Astrology?

No, they are important.

Do you believe a retrograde planet becomes weak?

Weak is....circumstantial. Sometimes that is a good thing or can help...sometimes not. Depends on the context.

Do you believe it still acts like a planet in a direct motion but you feel the energies more internally?

Sounds like a modern natal interpretation. But, I ask you, what don't we experience or feel internally?

Do you believe retrograde planets become stronger (and exalted) when placed in bad houses, positions and they become weaker when placed in good houses?

No, that sounds like something the Nodes might do but, not a retrograde planet, even natally.

Think of it like this: It isn;t normal for a planet to go "backwards" so, that planet is doing something contrary to it's noraml circumstance. Or, it has a differing view or motion that what is going on around it. Many famous people have one or two (or more) retrograde planets. Look a few famous people up and see. It's not a "detriment" anymore than anything else may or may not be. Again it is contextual.
 

Vista

Well-known member
There might be something to retrogrades. Astrologers caution people to be careful during mercury retrograde and to not start anything new during that time - "expect everything to go backwards while mercury is going backwards".

Astrologer Arlene Kramer says that "Astrologers have identified three retrograde planet situations that create enough disorder to warrant special caution. These are Mercury, Mars and Saturn." and "Anything that can go wrong will go wrong during Mercury Retrograde." She also cautions "never buy a car when mars is retrograde" and that a business started while Saturn retrograde is likely to only last a year.

John McCormick's "The Book of Retrogrades" analyzes the statistics of retrograde planets. One striking finding was the relation between Retrograde Neptune and World War II Generals - they had it 92% instead of 44%.

He also found that the number of retrograde planets in a chart was more significant than the actual identity of the planets:

Two retrograde planets (29%): People are drawn to and like and accept those who have two retrograde planets in the natal horoscope

Three retrograde planets (26%): Determination to excel in some speciality

One retrograde planet (18%): Independent, can work alone and achieve alone, does not need company to be happy

Four retrograde planets (12%): Writers, who withdraw and seek expression in private, solitary professions

No retrograde planets (7.7%): Unique in their perseverance to attain their goals. Found a lot in athletes and dancers. Found in unexpectedly high number (36%!) of the charts of United States Presidents

http://www.arlenekramer.net/astrology15.asp

I found this to be true in my case. Does anyone else find this true for themselves?


Very interesting, I have 3 Rx planets and what is said about this to be true. I would think retrograde periods of planets to be easier to deal with for people who have them natally, in particular the outer planets.
 

byjove

Account Closed
byjove, I'm no expert but I understand that retrogradation is considered significant by Hellenistic astrologers http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius%20Valens%20entire.pdf :smile:

Hmm I see. So we have to figure out at which stage of the retrogradation cycle a planet was at natally to figure out what it's telling us?

If so, this reminds me of the subtle differences between dexter and sinister aspects. It looks the same, but it's not.

p82 really starts to go into the different stages of retrogradation and their significance natally if anyon'e on the hunt.

What about benifics or very strong, positive aspects supporting a first stage retrogradation? Is this useful? Like a person with a physical disability that impedes their day to day work but with the aid of people around them that are supportive?

How do I tell which stage my retrograde native planets were at? Do I simply check the date of retrogrades for that year and divide by 3 or 2?
 
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Carris

Well-known member
Thanks guys. Moog - there are some details on that link given - and zero means unique in perseverence.

Do you find that mercury's significations (i.e. communications, transport, media etc) started during retrograde mercury actually become problematic? Does a letter sent during rx mer get misplaced in the mail? Do plane, train schedules go off?

In a natal chart, is a prominently (i.e conjunct the angles, final dispositor, etc) placed rx merc less talkative? Or not so quick at repartee? Is a prominent rx saturn less disciplined or cautious? Is rx mars less aggressive or just slow to anger?
 

persephone5

Well-known member
I've always wondered about retrogrades as well. They confuse me partly because I have zero in my chart. Even my NN is direct, which I read once is not a very good thing? My husband has 6 planets retro! All from mars on down. Geez! And his mars is in libra!
 

JUPITERASC

Well-known member
That's interesting Carris. There's a lot more I'd like to know about the sample there. But I find statements like this far too vague to be meaningful; Personally I have 0 retrograde planets in my chart, but it certainly applies to me.
Most people have at least one retrograde planet so IMO your chart is fairly unusual Moog.

One of my friends has six retrograde planets
:smile:
Retrograde planets bother me a lot because there are way too many contradictory opinions on this. Though Astrology is subjective, everyone always seems to be confused on retrograde planets the most. Do you believe they are just optical illusions and shouldn't be important in Astrology? Do you believe a retrograde planet becomes weak?
Do you believe it still acts like a planet in a direct motion but you feel the energies more internally? Do you believe retrograde planets become stronger (and exalted) when placed in bad houses, positions and they become weaker when placed in good houses?

A while ago practicing astrologer Vettius Valens wrote an "Anthology" of the astrological practices of his predecessors as well as of his own time in which he says when a planet is in the interval of first station to second station (i.e. retrograde), the planet is "walking backwards and is therefore not fit to conduct its business".

i.e. two thousand years ago, astrologers considered a Retrograde planet as "walking backwards" and therefore unable to work well...


EXCEPT
when that planet is either specifically Stationary Retrograde or Stationary Direct - THEN under those special circumstances, a planet is considered "intensified" and to be "making an appearance" and/or to be "dramatically showing something"and a planet in that condition is described as "having an appearance that speaks"

clearly then, based on these ancient ideas a stationary Retrograde planet {and of course a stationary Direct planet, since both are stationary} may be described as dramatically drawing our attention to some matter

btw Vettius Valens translation is available free gratis and for nothing in pdf form translated by Professor Riley at this link http://www.csus.edu/indiv/r/rileymt/Vettius Valens entire.pdf
 

Moog

Well-known member
Most people have at least one retrograde planet so IMO your chart is fairly unusual Moog.

One of my friends has six retrograde planets
:smile:

Wooo, I'm special :lol:

He also found zero retrograde planets in an unexpectedly high number (36%!) Of the charts of United States Presidents. The road to the Presidency is arduous and perseverance is needed to attain that goal.

Moog for president, yes?
 

Blackempress

Well-known member
Two retrograde planets (29%): People are drawn to and like and accept those who have two retrograde planets in the natal horoscope

This is somewhat true but then it also depends on other factors of the chart. So far of all the stuff I have read on Rx I can't understand if it's a good thing or a bad thing. I'd personally think outer planet energies would be alot more useful Direct than Rx. For eg. I have Rx Uranus in 9 which makes me an 'internal' rebel & conform externally. I'd rather be straight & rebellious outright. :annoyed:
 
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SniperBomber328

Well-known member
Thanks guys. Moog - there are some details on that link given - and zero means unique in perseverence.

Do you find that mercury's significations (i.e. communications, transport, media etc) started during retrograde mercury actually become problematic? Does a letter sent during rx mer get misplaced in the mail? Do plane, train schedules go off?

In a natal chart, is a prominently (i.e conjunct the angles, final dispositor, etc) placed rx merc less talkative? Or not so quick at repartee? Is a prominent rx saturn less disciplined or cautious? Is rx mars less aggressive or just slow to anger?


Well I'll tell you one thing. I have Merc. retro in the 1st Scorpio and it definitely does not make me less talkative, In fact a lot of people get annoyed simply, because I tend to over-talk when describing so much or just being downright too talkative.

I am less disciplined ( I also have Rx Saturn....luck me *sarcasm*). Hm....I wonder?
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
While Parasara ("father of Vedic astrology") considered planets in retrograde as = to being in exaltation, and rx planets are considered "strong" in Vedic astrology in general, their general teaching regarding practical rx delineation is pretty much as follows:
-if the planet is a functional benefic and is rx, its benefic influences are doubled
-if the planet is a functional malefic and is rx, its malefic influences are doubled

An excellent collection of varying thoughts and insights regarding the rx question (mostly from the Vedic point of view) can be found in G. Inglis book, "Retrograde Planets" (astroamerica.com)
 
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