Venus Return technique

Occasionally I run a Venus Return chart for someone, set against the native's natal chart, to see what's going on for that individual, socially, in the coming year.

BUT I've got a case here where I can try a slightly different trick. Below are two charts that involve the Venus Return for a woman and a man, each paired with the OTHER'S natal chart. If their individual Venus Returns paired with their natals were suggestive, when I put the Venus Return of each with the OTHER person's natal ... I was a little gobsmacked.

Given these results, I'd say a relationship between them (perhaps leading to marriage) is highly likely within the next year ... BUT I've never used this technique before, so I don't know if it's valid. Feedback would be welcome (although I realize the following analysis is somewhat long). While I tend to look at the sheer *number* of notable things between the charts, I do realize that just having a lot of connections may or may not result in a relationship between *them*. I think it's clear both will be having a busy year relationally, but whether a "near miss" between them sparks other choices, or they'll settle down with each other ...

Perhaps I'm second-guessing too much. I just like to be aware of other possible interps. Looking at this, my gut instinct is to say they'll finally stop just circling and may possibly be engaged, or headed that way, before their next Venus Returns. Whether it'll pan out long term is a different question, but I'm interested in feedback on this *technique* for at least short term analysis.

And just to clarify, I do realize this only spans their social lives in the next year. I found that her Venus return had already passed in August, and his is upcoming in early November (his birthday was just a few days ago, hence my fooling around with this now).

Below, her VR chart/his natal is first; his VR chart/her natal is second.

Among the things I found most significant:
1) In both charts, the Rising Sign of the Venus Return is the same sign as the DC of the "potential partner." And in the case of one (the woman's VR and man's natal), they were right on top of each other. If I were looking at this as a *synastry* chart, that would be ... not necessarily "a lock" but a really strong indicator. Playing with VR charts, however, it may be just that he will have a stronger influence on her socially than she will on him, or that her relationship with him will be a catalyst for something else.

2) The guy's natal Eros is sitting on the DC of the woman's VR. Her natal Eros is in the first house of his VR, as is her Sun.

3) Her natal Vertex is rising just a few degrees above his VR chart's AC, and the Vertex of his VR chart is in the first house of her natal chart.

4) In her VR chart, she has a close Sun-Venus conjunction, Venus approaching, suggesting love coming to her, and it's in her 4th house, suggesting it could turn into a permanent relationship (like marriage or at least living together). There are other interps, I think (redecorating a home, etc.,) but I'm not sure those are as likely; I just wouldn't rule them out. Let me add to this, Transiting-Mars is about to hit in conjunction this Venus-Sun conjunction ... suggesting something is going to go BOOM rather soon. Additionally, Transiting-Sun is just past a conjunction to her VR Vertex, but Transiting-Saturn is about to hit it in conjunction, which could suggest blockage to, or perfection of.

5) Her Venus-Sun conjunction squares his natal Eros, which is sitting virtually conjunct her DC ... which is also his AC. The square would suggest energy and friction ... which might not be good, but these two have been dancing around each other for a year, so it might TAKE a square to force some sort of resolution. Venus is a beatific, and the only other hard aspect here is from Jupiter ... another beatific, so I don't interp the friction as bad, in this case. Concur? An alternative possibility is that he's attractive to her, she wants a permanent relationship, and that will impact his own view of himself, forcing some sort of change in him/his self-presentation.

6) His natal sun-Uranus conjunction is also conjuct her VR Vertex (all 6th house), and everything is square her VR Moon. (I should note, these two work together, so the 6th house involvement isn't accidental, and both work in academia, so I also note a fair bit of 9th house planetary placements in both charts, even if not all of them are especially relevant.)

7) The Vertex and Moon from his VR chart are in her first house.

8) Her VR Juno makes a very close conjunction to his natal Pluto ... and, I might add, to HER natal Sun, all in her natal 7th house.

9) Her natal Juno is conjunct the Venus-Mercury near-exact conjunction in his VR chart, which falls in his natal 1st house.

Other features of note:
**Regarding planets on the Angles...

--The Neptune of her VR chart is right on the IC of his natal chart, which might indicate either his delusion about things or an idyllic love brought "home" to him -- hard to say, at this point. In his natal chart, his Venus is conjunct Neptune (not an easy aspect), which is why I suggested the latter reading: he's been looking for his "ideal" woman, and has found her (or at least will think he has), and brings her "home."
--Jupiter is Rising in her VR chart, suggesting some fortune (but it's not a close rising), and his natal Jupiter is at the MC of her VR chart.

**I also look at aspects and placement for Venus, Sun and Moon of each (and some Mercury & Mars), both within the VR charts, but in synastry...

--In his chart, he has a REALLY (combust) close conjunction of Venus and Mercury, suggesting a year of communication, learning, movement ... not necessarily a new love, but given everything else, it could include that. His Venus-Mercury is in the 3rd house of short trips, education, etc., and I do know he's been toying with teaching overseas -- which would certainly be a sort of Venus-Mercury conjunction, but I'd expect that to fall in his 9th house, not 3rd house.
--Also, that exact Venus-Mercury conj. in his VR shart is sextile her natal sun (which is in her 7th house), but gets a square from her natal Saturn ... and his VR Mars forms a T-Square with her natal Jupiter and Saturn. That whole thing makes a Grand Square. There's also involvement from his VR Chiron & Neptune, which conjunct her natal Saturn.
... Now, there are a LOT of ways to read this, I think, both positive and negative, but I'd say SOMETHING will force him to make some changes, perhaps some healing changes.
--I should also add that her natal AC/CD are part of this, and conjunct his VR Chiron (so it might be healing for her through him rather than for him). The fact his VR moon lies very close to her natal Chiron might confirm the observation above that his affection might be more healing for her than for him. I should also add that her VR Chiron is very close to his natal IC.

--Of more concern is that his natal Saturn is conjunct the Mars in her VR chart. Not sure what to make of that, but I'm not sure it's good.
--Her VR node is in a loose conjunction with his natal Juno.
--Her natal node falls in the 10th house, near the MC of his VR chart.

So a very interesting pair of charts ... lots of mutually reflective things happening.

Just ... is this even a valid technique for reading Venus Return charts??!

It sounds like an interesting technique. I'm by far an expert though, I usually only study the VR / SR charts on top of my own chart but just had a peek using this technique and it looks very interesting! Lol I have Sun/Pluto conjunction in my VR fourth house next year, and one guy that has been in my life has his VR ascendant conjunct my Sun

I did do a similar technique using Solar returns one year and found my SR ascendant conjuncted a friend's natal Sun, while his SR ascendant conjuncted my natal Sun. I can't recall what else was happening in the charts but we did focus alot on each other that year.

Neptune Rising said:

It sounds like an interesting technique. I'm by far an expert though, I usually only study the VR / SR charts on top of my own chart but just had a peek using this technique and it looks very interesting! Lol I have Sun/Pluto conjunction in my VR fourth house next year, and one guy that has been in my life has his VR ascendant conjunct my Sun.

I did do a similar technique using Solar returns one year and found my SR ascendant conjuncted a friend's natal Sun, while his SR ascendant conjuncted my natal Sun. I can't recall what else was happening in the charts but we did focus alot on each other that year.

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Thank you for the info, and very interesting indeed. You'll have to report back if the relationship with that fellow turns out to take a step forward, either emotion-wise or commitment-wise. I'd really like to figure out how well this technique works.

I've never used this technique so far so don't know anything about it. But I've been using the VR charts for some years and there's one thing which caught my attention immediately when I looked at the male VR chart in comparison to his natal.

The vertex of the VR is conjunct the natal ASC and the vertex of the natal is conjunct the ASC of the VR. I remember the year when one of my friends met the love of his life, he had this aspect, plus VR Venus was in the fifth house with other planets so it was very suggestive of an important meeting. However with the vertex which is a fated point it was all very heavy. They didn't remain together but even now after years he still remembers and loves that woman!

I'm curious if other people experienced this aspect as well. I have it in my current VR plus a lot of planets in the fifth VR house, so I'm a bit scared how this will turn out.

I also found the house placement of Venus over the years to be very important in the VR, maybe even more than the aspects.planets in 7th, 5th houses or on angles as well. With the Uranus in the 7th house in the VR of the male, an unexpected, sudden encounter with that woman? maybe unstable relationship?

let us know what happens hope this info was helpful

layaly said:

The vertex of the VR is conjunct the natal ASC and the vertex of the natal is conjunct the ASC of the VR. I remember the year when one of my friends met the love of his life, he had this aspect, plus VR Venus was in the fifth house with other planets so it was very suggestive of an important meeting. However with the vertex which is a fated point it was all very heavy. They didn't remain together but even now after years he still remembers and loves that woman!

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Just a point of clarification, the charts are the VR of one against the natal of the other. So it's not his natal chart but her natal chart and his VR chart. I wonder if the same connection would be the case? They already know each other, however, so it wouldn't be meeting but perhaps a new beginning. Then again, the same principle may not apply. But that's part of what I was curious about.

layaly said:

I also found the house placement of Venus over the years to be very important in the VR, maybe even more than the aspects.planets in 7th, 5th houses or on angles as well. With the Uranus in the 7th house in the VR of the male, an unexpected, sudden encounter with that woman? maybe unstable relationship?

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Maybe an unstable relationship, or an off-again, on-again relationship, which seems to be what they have at present. The only thing in her VR 5th house is Juno.

Anyway, I did want to clarify which VR to which natal.

I have attached below the VR charts in synastry with the natal chart of each person (so male VR to male natal, female VR to female VR). As noted above, the male VR chart is paired with the female natal, and the reverse. But thoughts on the new charts, given your experience, would be welcome!

(The VR chart is on the *inside*, natal on the outside, in each case.)

hi kay,

it is interesting to play around with different techniques to see if one can find something useful to understand the astrology at work better... i have never worked with venus return charts, except market activity related.. i would be putting the emphasis on the natal to natal between the 2 people at the top of the priority list and working out from that point.. any return chart is going to be 2ndary to the dynamic between the 2 natal charts..

since one of these charts is your chart, i am sure you've taken a pretty good look at these charts! you and this fellow share some obvious astro in common.. both born on the full moon phase with sun/moon in libra/aries (which will show up in a composite which i haven't done)... his sun in libra is conjunct uranus which is a different flavour then yours which is connected to neptune via a close 45.. your venus is right on this spot too, so venus/neptune/sun together in your chart very strongly.. sun/uranus connections suggest strong independance even if born on a full moon.. other factors in his chart increase this as i see it... all his planets in the east with the exception of mars, moon, saturn might incline him to stay independent.. moon in aries will do this too even if in full moon phase as i see it.. it would be different if libra rising.. however the ruler of his 7th is in sagittarius in the 1/2 area.. saggy is the sign of the bachelor..

since folks are talking about the vertex, i will comment on this.. the vertex is like a 2nd type of descendant as i see it.. connections to this point can act like connections to the 7th house cusp and suggest relationships that don't show up in the way many astrologers would be thinking of.. his chart has a fairly close saturn/vertex... your natal saturn is making a very close conjunction to his midheaven axis. i imagine you represent the 'saturn' connection for him here... it might be a 'fated' type theme in his life and one that he doesn't want to work thru either... there is some real hardship suggested by the close saturn/pluto square at this vertex as well.. this is possibly connected to his early home life (saturn in cancer) or relationship (sun and pluto libra) with his father.. perhaps he is trying to throw off a role that he saw his father live, or? this saturn/vertex/pluto config has been experiencing the transits of the outer planets including pluto the past while as well.. perhaps as i am getting farther away from your initial inquiry on the venus returns and best i will stop at this point.. hopefully something here will be of some value to you..

regards, james