How to tell a planet's sign?

teaconure said:

First off apologies, but I couldn't think of a clear way to just search for the answer to this question. I've dabbled in researching astrology on and off over the years and I can not for the life of me remember the answer to this question.

Ok, so in interpreting a natal chart, say you have a house where the beginning of it starts in one sign, but it contains another sign, and that's where a planet is. Is the planet said to be in the sign that that house starts as, or in the sign that it's directly under?

For example, I've attached my chart, and I'm checking out mars in the 8th. Is it considered to be in Gemini, or Taurus? The house appears to just barely start with Taurus, which would make Taurus the 8th house ruler, right?

I've gotta double check my transits. I've been feeling overly confused lately haha

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teaconure said:

Is the planet said to be in the sign that that house starts as, or in the sign that it's directly under?..mars in the 8th. Is it considered to be in Gemini, or Taurus?

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Blaze said:

If you're feeling confused by house placements, use the Whole-sign system.
Its a pretty good way to gauge what is where in a chart.
From the looks of it, your 7th house is ruled by Taurus and 8th by Gemini, so Mars is placed in Gemini.

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dependent on the house system chosen

JUPITERASC said:

That's good advice
The fact is, the house location of a natal planet can change,
dependent on the house system chosen

easily verify that at astro.com's Extended Chart Selection Page
there, fourteen of the more popular house systems currently in use
are available options
Placidus is simply the default
to view for yourself how that works in practice
create a natal chart using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES option
then compare with when using the Placidus default option

QUOTE

'.. There are at least twenty or thirty different house systems
or means of dividing the so-called "birthchart" into twelve segments of life activity.
In astrology, houses, mansions, or domains, represent general areas of life activity
and are the grounding areas or arenas of expression for planets.
Originally, the words "houses" and "signs" were interchangeable
and so
a planet in the SIGN of Aries
was also a planet in the HOUSE of Aries
so that in effect. there were no real houses as we know them today....'

Artificial divisions now known as houses were attempts by early Greeks and Hindus
to measure strength "points" in the horoscope
which during 7th and 8th centuries AD were construed
or confused
as means of dividing the birth chart.
The ascendant and midheaven degrees and their opposites
were definite power points or areas of intense focus
but not necessarily the beginnings of a house or quadrant.


WHOLE SIGN HOUSES ascendant sign becomes the whole first house
and the others follow.
ASCENDANT POINT ITSELF can then fall anywhere in the first house
and MIDHEAVEN POINT anywhere in the upper half of the chart.
The Whole Sign House system was used by the ancient Greeks
and the Hindus (who still use it today).
It is the oldest and simplest house system in existence
and immediately eliminates the awful mess astrologers have made
on the issue over the last 1300 years or so

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Bunraku said:

What about accurate birth times?

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for any time of birth natal chart
I use BOTH whole signs AND Alcabitius

and in fact
tsmall uses BOTH whole signs AND Placidus

some astrologers use whole sign AND Regiomontanus
there are multiple house systems
its a matter of personal choice

tsmall said:

I use both whole signs and Placidus.
The original idea of quadrant based house systems
was to determine angularity
and never to replace the concept of topics.

So I count signs for topics
and use a house system overlaid onto it.
Because, as I mentioned above, capability
and angularity/ability to act are two different things.

graay ghost said:

Do you see this
planets in the same sign as the ASC
but above the horizon and not within 5 degrees of ASC
seeming more 12 house?

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That is going to depend on what you mean by "more 12 house."

Best example I can give is my own chart.
I have a 12th house Sun at 2* Libra, with the ASC at 14* Libra.
Make no mistake, it's a 12th house Sun
but that it can actually "see" the ASC means that...
well, the nature of the Sun is to select, and wanting to be in the 1st because you can see it taste it, almost touch it
yet stuck behind the glass in the 12th
speaks differently than a Virgo Sun with Libra rising.
So if a planet in the 12th is described as being "behind the scenes,"
but a planet is in the 12th but the same sign as the ascendant, its more like stuck behind the scenes
when you really want to be center stage.

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teaconure said:

Ok, so in interpreting a natal chart, say you have a house where the beginning of it starts in one sign, but it contains another sign, and that's where a planet is. Is the planet said to be in the sign that that house starts as, or in the sign that it's directly under?

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Lex Gemini said:

Some a house or sign may be intercepted.
An intercepted sign is when the house swallows up the the sign (i.e not on preceding, or following a cusp). An intercepted house is when the same sign falls on two adjoining houses (the houses are smaller). These always come in pairs (2 intercepted signs, 2 intercepted houses) Charts that have intercepted signs always have intercepted houses two. An intercepted sign and any planets in the that sign represent a kind of hidden or repressed energy. Intercepted signs depend on which house system you’re using.

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That's why using WHOLE SIGN HOUSES is a good approach
i.e.
there is no ambiguity with WHOLE SIGN HOUSES
because WHOLE SIGN HOUSES eliminates intercepted signs

Lex Gemini said:

Equal houses are the oldest system, 1st century BCE.
I don’t recommend this, although that’s your choice.

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dr. farr said:

Cusps:


Today (and for the past thousand years or so)
we define cusps as "borders" (coasts)
but that is not the original meaning of the word "cusp":
it means "point" such as cuspal teeth (bicuspids)
and the point of a sword

- so originally the term cusp meant the "point" of something
and in astrology originally the "cusp" of the house meant its "point"
now, when quadrant systems were developed
this "point" of the house came to mean its "beginning"
which later came to mean its "border"
ie
the "border" between one house and the other.

And later astrology also began using these "borders" (cusps)
for various prognostic applications (Charles Carter came to believe that, for timing of events
the "cusps" of the Campanus house system gave the best results
among the various quadrant house systems)

But now notice this:
in whole sign the cusps are NOT the 0 degree "borders" of sign/houses at all
and never were so regarded!

In whole sign, the "cusp" retained its original meaning
not as a "border" but rather as A POINT

-and that POINT (cusp) for EACH house
was the sensitive point of that house
viz
the sensitive point in whole sign houses
-each house
-that is the "cusp" of each house
-is a direct projection from the ascending degree.

Example:
-the ascending degree of a chart is 18 Taurus:
what are the house cusps
(sensitive points, original meaning of the word "cusp")
in the whole sign houses of this chart?
Cusp of 1st house = 18 Taurus
Cusp of 2nd house = 18 Gemini
Cusp of 3rd house = 18 Cancer
Cusp of 4th house = 18 Leo
Cusp of 5th house = 18 Virgo
Cusp of 6th house = 18 Libra
Cusp of 7th house = 18 Scorpio
Cusp of 8th house = 18 Sagittarius
Cusp of 9th house = 18 Capricorn
Cusp of 10th house = 18 Aquarius
Cusp of 11th house = 18 Pisces
Cusp of 12th house = 18 Aries

Now it is these "cusps"
(sensitive degrees, original meaning of the word "cusp" as a "point")
that are (and were) used for progressions, timing of events, etc,
and the fact is that they work for these purposes, quite well
(in expert hands)

Whole sign does not use the BORDERS between houses (always 0 degree of any sign) for anything, but it DOES use "cusps" (points in the house, projected from the exact ascending degree) for timing (and other) delineative purposes.

Whole sign suddenly vanished (both in the West and in Vedic astrology)
during the same period of time
-ie, late 8th to early 9th century
- this sudden disappearance suggests a sudden turn in astrological thinking and practices
rather than a gradual supplanting of a less effective traditional method (whole sign)
by a new and more effective method
(rheotrius/alchabitius in the West
and the closely related to whole sign Equal house, in Vedic astrology)

For me, there is only 1 reason I switched to whole sign-it worked better (FOR ME)

I could care less if it were the oldest house system (which it is)

or whether it was invented by Badda Bing at Barney's Beanery in Bayonne, 10 years ago:
only things I consider are:
-does it seem to make sense?
-does it "taste good" to me (ie, does it "feel right" to me)
-and, if yes to the above
does it work (producing delineations and predicitions)
better than what I have previously been doing?

Well, whole sign did all that, for me, so I switched;
but I am not going to try to convince anyone of anything about it
except for beginners
-to you who might just be starting out, I would say:
try whole sign first, and see how well it might work for you...

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blackbery said:

Agree with member Blaze that Whole Signs good way to go.

Btw, your Mars in Gemini in h8 rules your h6 but that's only if your tob is exact! It could rule your 7th house. Either way,
Mars is very nicely aspected.

Sorry to see that transiting Pluto is doing a real number on your stellium in h12. OMG, must be hard for you right now. Remember,
that Pluto clears away stuff like clutter is cleared and what remains is what you need and not the rest of it. It is about transformation but can be very painful at the time.
So keep strong and keep the faith and all will be okay.
Pluto transits are very intense but after the dust has settled,
you will realize that it was all for YOUR benefit,
your good.



Good Luck.

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