Pluto in our lives

PisceanPallas

Account Closed
I think for me, also, with Pluto in Libra in the 8th, and being in a close conjunction to the Moon, I have really tried to control my emotions.

I try to contain my emotions in my close relationships. Even though inside I may be feeling overwhelmed by a huge storm, outside I try to maintain calm.

I feel things so deeply, yet often people would never know this, because I don't show it. I keep my emotions hidden, because I feel like I am showing a sign of weakness if I don't. Often I will release my emotions when no-one else is around. For me, crying is a huge catharsis. I have trouble talking about my feelings...I find them hard to put into words. I don't know if this is because, growing up in my family, we never really talked about our feelings. I think my Mum was also quite good at keeping her emotions hidden. Occasionally, she would get angry, and more than likely this was because she had bottled up her emotions for so long. I understand this now, as I am like that also.

Maintaining peace and equilibrium within my close relationships is of utmost importance. However, as I have discovered recently, this is not always in mine or my partners best interests. Containing, controlling, and hiding feelings and emotions just to keep the peace does not really work. For a long time, I thought it was working...now Pluto is showing me otherwise.

I feel like Pluto is really showing me the extent of the deep emotions I have kept hidden thus far... I am learning to listen to and acknowledge my emotions. I am realising they have value.
 
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Neptune Rising

Well-known member
I think for me, also, with Pluto in Libra in the 8th, and being in a close conjunction to the Moon, I have really tried to control my emotions.

I try to contain my emotions in my close relationships. Even though inside I may be feeling overwhelmed by a huge storm, outside I try to maintain calm.

I feel things so deeply, yet often people would never know this, because I don't show it. I keep my emotions hidden, because I feel like I am showing a sign of weakness if I don't. Often I will release my emotions when no-one else is around. For me, crying is a huge catharsis. I have trouble talking about my feelings...I find them hard to put into words. I don't know if this is because, growing up in my family, we never really talked about our feelings. I think my Mum was also quite good at keeping her emotions hidden. Occasionally, she would get angry, and more than likely this was because she had bottled up her emotions for so long. I understand this now, as I am like that also.

That is interesting. I have Moon in Pisces quincunx Pluto in Libra, and experience the same type of thing with regards to my emotions. For me, I don't reveal my true nature, especially when I feel vulnerable, quite often in relationships - probably that is linked to the Venus trine Pluto. But when I do release the emotions, its an event. :tongue: I do cry when I'm alone, as a catharsis, I've learned not to fear my own tears. I am learning though, how to express my emotions more, though I do still hold alot back for fear of overwhelming the other person. With my Piscean Moon, I know I can be clingy for fear of abandonment. I guess this is the life lesson of the Moon/Pluto quincunx, learning to handle the intensity of my emotions, maybe balancing the need to merge and maybe cling (Pisces Moon) with a need to let go (Pluto)... or perhaps how to empower my Pisces Moon..
 

poyi

Premium Member
Raven,
your words ring true to me regarding heredity.
my mother was abandoned by her mother. raised by a grandmother who hated her (my mom).
my mother died, metaphorically, before i was born.
My Hades Moon.
I learned that love, feelings, emotion had to die just to live.
To this day, my mother (83) still tells me she loves me. But all the time I heard it, I somehow knew that she hated me because I reminded her of herself.
Harsh words, actions, neglect and disregard for who I was were the feelings I felt every time I heard her say it.
Not too long ago, in an emotional conversation with her, I confronted her on that and in a rare moment of self~awareness and honesty, she said to me ~
"I had three children, the third of whom died at infancy. When you were born (I'm the 4th) I thought I was given a second chance. I was wrong. You were only a burden to me. I wanted to kill myself when you were born."
It crystallized everything I had grown up feeling.
It was as if I had been born anew when I heard those words.
Finally, everything I had known in my gut had been confirmed.
It was strangely freeing.
Now, when she tells me she loves me, now I tell her "love yourself, then you might love me too, and maybe I will love myself a bit more than I do."
I probably say it for myself more than her, truthfully.
Still a long way to go....

Being a Sun sign Scorpio with Scorpio Stellium in 2nd & 3rd house. My Pluto 0 Scorpio 11 in the 2nd house square my Capricorn Moon in 5th at 3A (3 degrees "Approaching").

Pluto semisquare Sagittarius Jupiter in the 4th house, Jupiter conjunct IC and SN at 1A.
Sesquisquare NN 1A and MC 2A, semisequare MC 2A

Before the age of 3, I was sent to live with relatives, I hardly slept with my mother as a infant. I couldn't speak a word until nearly 3 years of age. From my sister's memory, as a young child, I never smile much.

Before me, my mother had about 2 abortions because to her having another child was burden to her. My parents were both abusive. Me and my sister used to lock ourselves in our own room whenever father was at home to protect ourselves because our mother used to work night shift, so we have to deal with our father alone, two of us....for many many years.....Up until 2 years ago, I still dream of my father hitting me in the dream and woke up with sweat and tear. My sister was the same. She has Scorpio Moon 4th and Pluto Rx 3rd Sesquisquare Sun 10th 1A. Our father had hanged her up to abuse her and left her permanent psychological trauma.

My mother told me, "I was not going to give birth to you. Only because your sister wanted a younger sister so I didn't go on to have another abortion". She once wanted to Sell me to a couple couldn't conceive their own child. She told me these histories when I was an early teenager. For me Pluto square Moon is emotional scar that affects my self worth balance in the 2nd house. I have to say that I have a very strong view of not having children until I fully confident to become a proper mother, perhaps because of Moon in the 5th, don't know.

Good thing about Pluto is that he also rules rebirth. I have transformed into a Much different person now. My Real happy life now is not being in my homeland to have close contact with my parents. Since I left my homeland, with lots of struggle and pain; I am now reborn. :lol:
 

PisceanPallas

Account Closed
That is interesting. I have Moon in Pisces quincunx Pluto in Libra, and experience the same type of thing with regards to my emotions. For me, I don't reveal my true nature, especially when I feel vulnerable, quite often in relationships - probably that is linked to the Venus trine Pluto. But when I do release the emotions, its an event. :tongue: I do cry when I'm alone, as a catharsis, I've learned not to fear my own tears. I am learning though, how to express my emotions more, though I do still hold alot back for fear of overwhelming the other person. With my Piscean Moon, I know I can be clingy for fear of abandonment. I guess this is the life lesson of the Moon/Pluto quincunx, learning to handle the intensity of my emotions, maybe balancing the need to merge and maybe cling (Pisces Moon) with a need to let go (Pluto)... or perhaps how to empower my Pisces Moon..

Yes, I understand the need to contain emotions when you feel vulnerable.

It's interesting, and I was just thinking about this now... in a way, I find it easier to feel and express other people's emotions, moreso than my own. If someone is sad, I can feel that and will cry with them, or in front of them. If I am sad, I am more likely to contain it, and cry alone. I am afraid that people will judge that as weakness or as manipulative ( as if I am crying to get attention or pity).

Also, I relate to the holding back due to fear of overwhelming the other person. Maybe it is because we know what it feels like when you can feel the other persons emotions, so we contain ours? Hmmm...
For me, I am aways thinking of the other person, and worry that I will burden them. I worry that they won't be able to handle my true feelings or emotions, so I adjust them or contain them. This feels truly Libran to me...a constant worry of what the other thinks and feels about me.

I like your idea of the meaning of Moon/Pluto...EMPOWERING your Moon!! Love it!! I also like the idea of TRANSFORMING the Moon...a rebirth and renewal of emotion and how we deal with emotion...
 
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MaeMae

Banned
Poyi ~
do you find it difficult when others don't understand why being around family is bad for you? Something that was shared with me years ago ~
it's important to your strengths but it's more important to respect your weaknesses. a kind of a"Godfather" analogy.
Pluto shows us the bare naked truth about ourselves because he has no interest in self-deception. but he's that little voice that keeps us having to find out what we're made of. emotional honesty is so important to a hades moon ~ otherwise the volcano fills slowly and methodically and we can become very self destructive if not honest with ourselves.
having pluto in house of values forces us to know ourselves before we can ever determine our real value.
 

poyi

Premium Member
Poyi ~
do you find it difficult when others don't understand why being around family is bad for you? Something that was shared with me years ago ~
it's important to your strengths but it's more important to respect your weaknesses. a kind of a"Godfather" analogy.
Pluto shows us the bare naked truth about ourselves because he has no interest in self-deception. but he's that little voice that keeps us having to find out what we're made of. emotional honesty is so important to a hades moon ~ otherwise the volcano fills slowly and methodically and we can become very self destructive if not honest with ourselves.
having pluto in house of values forces us to know ourselves before we can ever determine our real value.

MaeMae, Yes it happens sometime.

People do wonder why I never miss my family in Hong Kong, I contact my sister frequently through facebook or free iPhone international call but not to my parents. (I only see my mother 3 hours a day before going oversea anyway. They divorced when I was 11 years old. My sister supported me like a father.)

I seriously don't care much how other people see me. I am who I am. Nobody had lived my life other than myself, they simply have no right and no place to say anything and I also can't judge them. I have Uranus in 3rd and conjunct IC, SN. I have my own unique views about family and approach about life :biggrin:. I told my workmates why I don't have good relationships with my parents, like I will just tell people the completed truth, no secret at all. I faced my weaknesses as if these are not my personal issues. By being honest to other people and myself, for example here, I don't find that difficult anymore. It just becomes easier and easier. Everyone has their own problems; I am grateful that I am still alive able to do the things that I like and healthy. Once you had reached/seen the really low bottom of life, nothing really hit you anymore. I have seen many patients, they are well and truly out of hope and impossible to keep alive but their spirit, their joy and their love of their family (although I don't have) influenced me at the most profound level...They are my healers.

Many things happened after I left Hong Kong, through work and meeting new people, I found my own values, no long believing what my mother used to tell me. Of course, this is a forever battle since permanent impacts from early childhood still existing. But I am a HELL lot better than before!! :w00t:
 

Blackempress

Well-known member
I think for me, also, with Pluto in Libra in the 8th, and being in a close conjunction to the Moon, I have really tried to control my emotions.

I try to contain my emotions in my close relationships. Even though inside I may be feeling overwhelmed by a huge storm, outside I try to maintain calm.

I feel things so deeply, yet often people would never know this, because I don't show it. I keep my emotions hidden, because I feel like I am showing a sign of weakness if I don't. Often I will release my emotions when no-one else is around. For me, crying is a huge catharsis. I have trouble talking about my feelings...I find them hard to put into words. I don't know if this is because, growing up in my family, we never really talked about our feelings. I think my Mum was also quite good at keeping her emotions hidden. Occasionally, she would get angry, and more than likely this was because she had bottled up her emotions for so long. I understand this now, as I am like that also.

Maintaining peace and equilibrium within my close relationships is of utmost importance. However, as I have discovered recently, this is not always in mine or my partners best interests. Containing, controlling, and hiding feelings and emotions just to keep the peace does not really work. For a long time, I thought it was working...now Pluto is showing me otherwise.

I feel like Pluto is really showing me the extent of the deep emotions I have kept hidden thus far... I am learning to listen to and acknowledge my emotions. I am realising they have value.

Well said. I guess your Venus in 8th & pluto conj Moon makes you well aware of your intellectualised emotional life which is good for people like me, who rationalise the VERY exact emotions (I have a stellium in Libra including :pluto: & :moon:) I Can't express emotions in a relationship unless it's regarding my parents who I'm extremely sensitive to but that's once in a blue moon (eg. health crisis of my father lately). Being dominant air with a Gemini Venus it makes it nearly impossible to express emotions altogether. Like you, I always found emotions to be a weakness. I find crying a catharsis but only when alone. But if someone opens up to me emotionally while counselling them, I end up revealing my own life/emotions too.


Being a Sun sign Scorpio with Scorpio Stellium in 2nd & 3rd house. My Pluto 0 Scorpio 11 in the 2nd house square my Capricorn Moon in 5th at 3A (3 degrees "Approaching").

Pluto semisquare Sagittarius Jupiter in the 4th house, Jupiter conjunct IC and SN at 1A.
Sesquisquare NN 1A and MC 2A, semisequare MC 2A

Before the age of 3, I was sent to live with relatives, I hardly slept with my mother as a infant. I couldn't speak a word until nearly 3 years of age. From my sister's memory, as a young child, I never smile much.

Before me, my mother had about 2 abortions because to her having another child was burden to her. My parents were both abusive. Me and my sister used to lock ourselves in our own room whenever father was at home to protect ourselves because our mother used to work night shift, so we have to deal with our father alone, two of us....for many many years.....Up until 2 years ago, I still dream of my father hitting me in the dream and woke up with sweat and tear. My sister was the same. She has Scorpio Moon 4th and Pluto Rx 3rd Sesquisquare Sun 10th 1A. Our father had hanged her up to abuse her and left her permanent psychological trauma.

My mother told me, "I was not going to give birth to you. Only because your sister wanted a younger sister so I didn't go on to have another abortion". She once wanted to Sell me to a couple couldn't conceive their own child. She told me these histories when I was an early teenager. For me Pluto square Moon is emotional scar that affects my self worth balance in the 2nd house. I have to say that I have a very strong view of not having children until I fully confident to become a proper mother, perhaps because of Moon in the 5th, don't know.

Good thing about Pluto is that he also rules rebirth. I have transformed into a Much different person now. My Real happy life now is not being in my homeland to have close contact with my parents. Since I left my homeland, with lots of struggle and pain; I am now reborn. :lol:

Very moving story Poyi! I can now see the evil presentation of pluto power. I'm sure the scars remain but no doubt that you've turned out as a strong human being instead of repeating that abuse! Bravo!!
 

poyi

Premium Member
♥♥♥;384067 said:
I have it transiting my Venus (1 month) and I have been death threated ever since (1 month with it now).

Nope it's not from a lover.:whistling:

(Not what I know)

Argh....Pluto is the smallest planet in our solar system from memory but surely very very powerful...
 

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
Prehaps I am not old enough to give any significant insight on Pluto in a personal sense (or judegment to boot), but I have not felt Pluto's so-called "transformations" in my lifetime.

Pluto is in my 1st house Scorpio conjunct my Mars & Mercury, square my Saturn, Trine my Moon and Sextile my Neptune-Uranus conjunction. Nothing significant in my life that would have to do with Pluto. I wonder what will happen once Pluto sextiles my Natal Pluto?

Note: I had more to say before posting this, but I seem to have lost my train of thought.
 

Carris

Well-known member
Astrologer Katherine Hamaker Zondag has an interesting experience of pluto. When she was carrying her first child, the due date was supposed to be in september making the child a virgo.

She writes: "...from the moment I knew I was pregnant, I made note of every significant event concerning the baby - every phonecall, purchase decision, discussion, chat etc about the baby. The amazing thing was how often in the first three months, one of the angles (especially ascendant or MC) of those events aspected the natal angles or natal pluto of my horoscope. From the fourth month of pregnancy, the aries/libra and leo/aquarius axis became prominent in the chart of these events - including moments when the baby kicked. The baby was born with sun at 11 libra - and not virgo as expected."

She experienced the same thing with her second child. She says other astrologers have also had this experience. So maybe pluto has something to do with the endless chain of parents-children-parents-children.
 

MaeMae

Banned
Astrologer Katherine Hamaker Zondag has an interesting experience of pluto. When she was carrying her first child, the due date was supposed to be in september making the child a virgo.

She writes: "...from the moment I knew I was pregnant, I made note of every significant event concerning the baby - every phonecall, purchase decision, discussion, chat etc about the baby. The amazing thing was how often in the first three months, one of the angles (especially ascendant or MC) of those events aspected the natal angles or natal pluto of my horoscope. From the fourth month of pregnancy, the aries/libra and leo/aquarius axis became prominent in the chart of these events - including moments when the baby kicked. The baby was born with sun at 11 libra - and not virgo as expected."

She experienced the same thing with her second child. She says other astrologers have also had this experience. So maybe pluto has something to do with the endless chain of parents-children-parents-children.

my son has a moon pluto trine, exact min/degree in scorpio/cancer. he has an easier time of containing his emotions now than he was younger. now he just slow burns, but when he was little, i always gave him permission to get it out, let it out.
he usually saves and shares his anger about other things with me - a safe harbor.
 
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Judy_AzVirgo

Well-known member
Another Pluto in Leo here.... getting to be older 'n dirt. Here's my two cents:

The mighty P is in my 9th, minutes away from my Midheaven, closely conjunct Venus in 9th. Pluto rules my Scorpio Ascendant. Also trines my Moon, and sextiles my Neptune. Leaves my Virgo Sun alone... probably just as well. Aside from trying to become a Virgo over time, Pluto has been THE major influence in my life, one way or another.

I would agree with Raven's comments about Pluto in Leo... Pluto's lessons are often about letting go, and that's very difficult for a Fixed sign. Fortunately, most of us have planets in other elements that may be able to help us adapt to major upheavals.

I think that, at its most basic, Pluto is about transforming rather than about traumatizing. Sometimes it will transform by taking the neat little structure you've erected around your life and blasting it away because it needed to be blasted.

Other times it does its transformative work more slowly over time. I see this very clearly with the Venus-Pluto conjunction, as the Venus function/manifestation has evolved in my life over many years. I believe that's the point of Pluto's close relationship to any personal planet.

When Pluto was minutes away from a transit to my Ascendant, I met my first husband, who was truly a transformative influence on my ... well, on everything -- who I am, what I am. He has since died, but his influence was permanent. There's an example of a positive Pluto-driven change!

Other transits, especially the Pluto square and Pluto-square-Sun, have been traumatic. Pluto transits seem to work that way, sometimes bringing positive changes, and other times feeling like a relentless force of nature. Of course it depends much on the type of aspect being made. Does anyone else experience the back-and-forth or up-down influence? I've seen that as Pluto has transited through my 2nd house, bringing (sometimes major) fluctuations in income, for instance. I believe that astronomers have theorized TWO small bodies comprising Pluto, so maybe that is a key to its action? Don't know.

I notice that, with Venus-Pluto smack at my Midheaven, people are either attracted to me or completely put off. Yes, I can come on pretty strong, but the position itself is something of a lightning rod, and I learned early on that people's reactions to me are based on THEIR own stuff to deal with, not necessarily on anything I am or do. I just do my thing, and let them do theirs.

Don't know about Pluto's connection to psychology. Maybe that's more an 8th house thing than a Pluto thing, or a good working relationship between Mercury and Pluto? Not so good at it, myself.
 

MaeMae

Banned
in traditional and open minded astrology, your pluto is bumped into 10th, nonetheless conjunct mc and, yeah, buddy, you are a symbol of that, Judy and good for you, because whenever we have to deal with pluto straight up, as a grouping, there's kicking and shoving and @asses and elbows, but either way, no getting around pluto when he's in your face.
not for the weak hearted.
MPTY....
 

Judy_AzVirgo

Well-known member
Yup, MaeMae ... in your face, for sure. I mean Pluto -- well, sometimes me, too! If nothing else, when Pluto is active in the chart, I suppose it makes us grow a thicker skin. (Maybe not the case when the Moon is involved, or more sensitive signs, I dunno.)

Which system puts it in the 10th house? Just wondering.... it's so close to my MC that it could probably be interpreted as a big influence on the 10th, anyway.
 

Carris

Well-known member
Yup, MaeMae ... in your face, for sure. I mean Pluto -- well, sometimes me, too! If nothing else, when Pluto is active in the chart, I suppose it makes us grow a thicker skin. (Maybe not the case when the Moon is involved, or more sensitive signs, I dunno.)

Which system puts it in the 10th house? Just wondering.... it's so close to my MC that it could probably be interpreted as a big influence on the 10th, anyway.
Judy, if I may ask, do your venus pluto on MC indicate your profession, career or vocation or the way you work? Gauquelin found that planets close to the ascendant or MC in the 12th or 9th were most indicative of a person's profession, career or vocation. I found it to be true in my case, i.e. saturn. I guess Pluto's profession would have something to do with transforming someone or something - maybe something like the before-and-after "makeovers" on oprah's show, but with more depth and far-reaching influence.
 
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Judy_AzVirgo

Well-known member
Judy, if I may ask, do your venus pluto on MC indicate your profession, career or vocation or the way you work? Gauquelin found that planets close to the ascendant or MC in the 12th or 9th were most indicative of a person's profession, career or vocation. I found it to be true in my case, i.e. saturn. I guess Pluto's profession would have something to do with transforming someone or something.


Well... I was an advertising and PR executive with some huge corporate clients, and eventually had my own tiny, at-home ad & PR business (Sun in 10th). Nothing very transformative there. Never famous, either. In fact, I tended to run away from that, for instance by ghost-writing for others, or being dragged reluctantly into public speaking, etc. (I was always amazed if someone said I spoke well, which wasn't always the case, because I couldn't ever recall what I had said... nerves!)

The key to my earlier career, as I see it: the midpoints of my Ascendant and MC, Ascendant-Pluto, Venus-Pluto, Mars-Pluto and Mars-Venus (all pretty much in square aspect) are conjunct my Libra Mercury in the 11th, right around 0 Libra... a hugely sensitive point in my chart. I think my adv/PR career fit very nicely into that configuration. Mercury was and is the funnel for all that wicked energy. And of course Mercury rules my Sun, so ... kind of like falling off a log (South Node also near that 0 Libra point and conjunct Mercury). When I do charts, I always like to check the Asc-MC midpoint to see if there's a planet there... it's always, of course, in the 11th house, and I think a planet conjunct that midpoint tells us what we aspire to do. In my case, I really wanted to be a writer, but ended up writing ad copy and PR releases.... the dream of being a writer died hard, but who knows? maybe some day.

I think Pluto's influence had more to do with my STYLE of working, very focused, highly productive (dare I say 'intense'?) in my younger years. I was a workhorse. If anything was transformed, it was me (Pluto ruling my Asc), because I was quite shy as a teen, and as a young adult I actually set myself the task of becoming more assertive and friendly, and less withdrawn. It more or less worked.

Oddly, now that I'm semi-retired, I'm more reclusive again. (Interesting how these trajectories go!) I now work one-on-one with people, no more big groups. But I've developed a better sense of humor, which is a very good thing... kind of like aged cheese, I suppose. ;)
 

IleneK

Premium Member
Another Pluto in Leo here.... getting to be older 'n dirt.
Me, too :) and actually prefer it, when it comes to Pluto or really any outer planetary contacts to the natal chart.
<...>

Don't know about Pluto's connection to psychology. Maybe that's more an 8th house thing than a Pluto thing, or a good working relationship between Mercury and Pluto? Not so good at it, myself.
I think Pluto is associated with psychology because it compels us to excavate debris in order to plumb the depths of the unconscious. In Hamaker-Zondag's book entitled, Psychological Astrology, she suggests that the 8th house is the realm of the personal unconscious, where all our repressed personal matters reside.

So if we accept that the 8th house is naturally ruled by Scorpio, then Pluto plays a major role in making us confront unconscious issues, or in forcing us to see the consequences of our refusal to do so.

That old Pluto gets to the unvarnished truth, one way or another!
 

Judy_AzVirgo

Well-known member
Ilene, I agree that us Pluto folk have a NEED to dig. (I dig in my garden all the time... sorry, couldn't resist.) But I don't know that Pluto, Scorpio and the 8th house are so closely analogous; they're separate entities.

Would you agree that some of the potentially difficult Pluto transits are somewhat easier to handle as we get older and it's a "been there, done that" situation? Except for death. Each one feels like a completely new experience, at least for me, as if I've never been through it before.

And I enjoy Hamaker-Zondag's books. Have I read that one? Not sure ... having a senior moment here. Ha!
 
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