Intense attraction between straight and gay man...can you help?

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dr. farr

Well-known member
From my delineation of it (qv) I think the composite chart very clearly indicated the situation and the explosive potential contained within it (like the fight/argument mentioned by the OP) I considered the indications from the composite very clear, and very negative, giving no redeeming indications for the relationship whatsoever.

I think it is fortunate for the OP that he has decided to terminate this relationship.
 

MaeMae

Banned
dr. farr ~ you did hit the nail on the head and the neptunian mirage was shattered by uranian ending.
one thing i want to offer to stranger is an understanding that once uranus strikes, any situation has been permanently changed. this is actually an indicator of that uranus/neptune. someone mentioned it was in 12th earlier, and i may be mistaken, but i saw a chart with the two in 11th synastry, which could be indicative of a forgiving friendship.
neptune and uranus are seldom suited for each other in the sack, because neither knows whay to do with the other. but a friendship ( with the aforementioned good stuff from others) might be possible. uranus loves loud dramatic blasts and scene is over, but neptune doesn't ever hold grudges and uranus is quick to forget which can be as good as forgiveness.
either way, look at your own chart and examine the kinks you have between desire and reasonability as well as mars ~ your situation seemed, as well, mars / neptune to me, synastry~wise. that's why i asked if it might be conquestual.
nonetheless, dr. farr had a pretty accurate assessment and sandstone spotted a catakyst to this.
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
dr. farr ~ you did hit the nail on the head and the neptunian mirage was shattered by uranian ending.
one thing i want to offer to stranger is an understanding that once uranus strikes, any situation has been permanently changed. this is actually an indicator of that uranus/neptune. someone mentioned it was in 12th earlier, and i may be mistaken, but i saw a chart with the two in 11th synastry, which could be indicative of a forgiving friendship.
neptune and uranus are seldom suited for each other in the sack, because neither knows whay to do with the other. but a friendship ( with the aforementioned good stuff from others) might be possible. uranus loves loud dramatic blasts and scene is over, but neptune doesn't ever hold grudges and uranus is quick to forget which can be as good as forgiveness.
either way, look at your own chart and examine the kinks you have between desire and reasonability as well as mars ~ your situation seemed, as well, mars / neptune to me, synastry~wise. that's why i asked if it might be conquestual.
nonetheless, dr. farr had a pretty accurate assessment and sandstone spotted a catakyst to this.


It also didn't help that all the composite 1st (whole sign) planets, Jupiter, Neptune and Uranus, were in dark degrees of Sagittarius; plus the star connections with these planets were highly detrimental as well!
 

MaeMae

Banned
i think this thrrad has been a good example of how astrologers, resonating to their own knowledge and styles, can come up with same conclusions.
 

waybread

Well-known member
I am very sceptical of horoscopic placements for same-sex orientations. Sometimes they work, and sometimes they don't.

Moreover, there's a bit of a bias here. Shouldn't we be looking for heterosexual signatures?

I think something like 10% of males in the US are gay. So the percentage of people with Uranus or Neptune in the 8th or 12th houses would probably be greater than 10%. Even if this figure is off, you should still expect to find a close correspondence between the astrological and the sociological data.
 

sandstone

Banned
hi PD187540

i see your ideas as conjecture and not much different from others ideas unless you have some statistical proof to back them up..

you state : " It's impossible (and quite stupid ) to say that "oh, so-and-so is gay because he/she has a Venus trine/square/opposition Uranus aspect"

but somehow it's not impossible and not quite stupid to say
:"
"The presence of ...., Uranus, and/or Neptune in the 5th, 8th, and/or 12th Houses are dead ringers for homosexuality."?


think for a minute how many people this would include, putting aside the numerous house systems that would further complicate this theory which as you say, you've modified from someone else by removing saturn..

sorry ladies - brad pitt is gay, lol
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Pitt,_Brad

opps, 11th house by placidus, i guess he is still okay...

rock hudson
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Hudson,_Rock

he was gay, but he has neptune in the 11th by placidus, so it doesn't count..

jfk - gay, unless you can sneak that uranus into the 4th house, lol..
http://www.astro.com/astro-databank/Kennedy,_John_F.

i have uranus in the 8th by placidus and guess what -wink wink, lol..
i ain't gay, lol..

well, i guess you can see how crazy i think this idea is now that i have found out i am a closet homosexual and i just haven't figured it out yet.. it is in my chart, lol..

i just don't think you can find an astro signature for sexual orientation..

look how we are ruining maemaes comment?
 

waybread

Well-known member
My data come from the Gallup poll, a reliable source. What they found was that Americans believe the percentage of gays and lesbians is around 20% of the population, but actually when people are asked to report on their own sexual orientation, the figure is around 10%. This is consistent with the Kinsey Report that came out in 1948.

www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
In the 1st century AD, Dorotheus of Sidon outlined natal indications related (allegedly) to sexual preference likelihoods; I am not aware that any testing of these indications has ever been undertaken: you will find these indications of likelihood (and please note, LIKELIHOOD, ie, tendency, is the word, NOT definitie or "will be", just likelihood!) in "Carmen Astrologicum", available from several souces (including Amazon books and astroamerica.com)

No, I have NOT tested these indications out against natal charts (mainly because I am little interested in attempting to determine sexual preference trends or likelihoods), still, however, it might be worthwhile for someone to test those (alleged) indications against say 50 or 100 charts (where the sexual preference of the individual is known)...
 

MaeMae

Banned
proclivities for alternative sexual behaviors and activties can often be seen in what PD points out about ANY venus-mars-merc-uranus-neptune. It could show a predisposition toward sexuality that is expressed "outside the box." Doesn't mean a person is gay, or destined for same sex attractions.
 

MaeMae

Banned
maybe what you're spotting in those charts is an orientation toward non-traditional sexual practices and" socially acceptable" desires and behaviors?
besides, if one could tell at birth a person's religion or skin color or sexual orientation, imagine what that kind of thing could create for genocide
it would be like the mark on the doors of jewish boys before exodus.
 
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waybread

Well-known member
PD, one of the problems with statistical studies to date, is that they haven't born out any significant, let alone definitive, chart placement correlations to personality traits. You are probably familiar with the Gauquelin studies, but since they came out they have been widely criticized. However, they dealt with prominence in one's career, not sexual orientation.

As Dr. Farr noted, ancient astrologers did delve into these connections, but with methods that are a lot more intricate than a simple "Uranus in the 8th house."

Ptolmy (Tetrabiblos III:14, IV:5, 3rd century AD) is another example.

Earlier in the 20th century, Mars square Uranus was seen as a "gay" signature, but it doesn't always hold out. Stranger has Mars sextile Uranus.
 

bubuza_dulce

Well-known member
I am amazed that I have in my chart "the simple" Uranus in the 8th (on the cusp actually) and I seem to be gay so far:happy:

So thank you PD187540 for this clue, I'll pay attention to it in other charts as well.

My "friend" who is bisexual has neither of those aspects you mentioned but she has Aquarius Venus/Gemini Moon and I suppose it's enough for experimenting.

I'd like to discover myself to be bisexual some day because I imagine it's easier:tongue:
 

sandstone

Banned
pd

[deleted response to attacking comment - Moderator]

the 5 and 8th houses do have a direct relation to sexual behaviour while the 12th is often treated like a bit of a garbage dump for facets of human nature not so easily understood.. there is nothing wrong with the hypothesis, but that is all it is.. a similar hypothesis connecting 2 planets considered to have direct bearing on one's sexuality - venus and mars - with the outers by thinking aspects, could just as easily have validity too... to describe this approach as "impossible or quite stupid" seem more a reflection of your attitude then anything to do with the astrology.. your thinking appears to suggest houses matter, but aspects don't.. perhaps you'd like to clarify..

i maintain you can't see sexual orientation in a chart...planets can operate very differently in a chart for any number of reasons.. to emphasize a house position of planets while discounting aspect relationships doesn't make a lot of sense to me, but doing a statistical analysis for the greater astrology community would be a worthy task.. if i knew someone with sun ruling the 8th while in square to neptune for example, i would consider this another valid way to make a connection using houses and aspects and one i won't want to discount in terms of understanding a persons sexual orientation.. for me houses count, but so do aspect relationships..
 
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dr. farr

Well-known member
I would like to mention the researches of Vivian Robson, back in the earlier decades of the 20th century, and his still-available book, "The Astrology of Sex"-for further investigation into earlier (circa 1930's) thoughts about connections involving astrology and sex...
 

dr. farr

Well-known member
Robson does mention in passing, what we today would refer to as sexual orientation. Other work (Carter, Cornell) during that period of time, such as Carter's "Encyclopedia of Psychological Astrology", has more specific information.
I myself possess a rather extensive paper on this subject, foriginating rom the old Southern California Astro-Medical Club (dated 1938) with numerous planetary and sign allocations regarding homosexuality, preferences for certain types of sexual activity, etc; perhaps if desired I will give an outline of the indications and allocations, from that paper.
 

sandstone

Banned
pd

i have given examples including a comment on my own chart where your's or someone else's hypothesis is wrong..i have also said upstream that if you want to make a statistical study of it and proceed to share the findings in the greater astro community, i am sure it would be welcomed... to refer to me as 'our little dissident' is inaccurate and unfriendly.. it is also an example of your inability to accept that there are and will be many examples where yours or someone elses's theory doesn't hold true..
 

waybread

Well-known member
Ironically, this isn't a thread about whether or how to detect sexual orientation in a horoscope. Stranger, a gay man who started this thread, has no 8th or 12th house planets. Next? Stranger asked a specific question about a specific relationship, and appears to be long gone.

We have some old threads on this forum about how to detect sexual orientation that could be retrieved, but they are no more decisive than this debate.
 

Inconjunct

Well-known member
Please don't retrieve them waybread - so many of them are so replete with homophobic assumptions, they are offensive in the extreme.
 

wilsontc

Staff member
stop with the personal attacks, to all

All,

Please stop with the personal attacks. Make your point, focus on the issues under discussion, and leave the persons out of it. You can't force someone to agree with you, so if you have nothing new to say, let it go. If personal attacks continue I will continue to delete them.

Back on subject,

Tim
 

byjove

Account Closed
My data come from the Gallup poll, a reliable source. What they found was that Americans believe the percentage of gays and lesbians is around 20% of the population, but actually when people are asked to report on their own sexual orientation, the figure is around 10%. This is consistent with the Kinsey Report that came out in 1948.

www.gallup.com/poll/6961/what-percentage-population-gay.aspx

I don't always run with public perception on these things...t how many Americans were able to tell where Iraq was when George Bush was in power bombing the country? After 10 years I'd expect the number has gone up now. I've read many studies which considered Kinsey that criticised his work as being a little biased and broken in a few places. Sometimes (now obviously this anecdotal) I look around me and I think it's much LESS than 10%. Also, even at 10% that's same sex sex, but how many of them identify with gay today? The amount of jocks I see who avoid gay bars but go online looking for it...but they say they're 'not gay'...perception indeed! :whistling:

As for the gay signature, I read Michelangelo said something like 'when Venus and Mercury are conjunct' the native is gay...I suppose that's one indication out of many...maybe you do indeed 'need a few indications' exactly as we say when someone asks will they be famous/rich/etc. Also, did 'conjunct' in his time mean in the same sign, or by orb? :innocent: Also...has anyone read anything about sex in society in Florence during the Renaissance? Apparently police records for the 'office of the night' showed that very very rare was the man that didn't engage in same sex sex. What does that mean in astrological terms? That was a whole city...

I wanted to quote many people here but I have never successfully multi-quoted, only once by accident...
 
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