Venus in the 12th House

beginner

Well-known member
If venus in 12th wide orbit conjunct with saturn and setile mars/pluto 9th scorpio. It also indicates secret/hidden emenies? or it act as shield against secret/hidden enemies?


this placement may also mean that you have secret enemies and they mostly tend to be women.

However, if you had jupiter here, then things would be vastly different.
 

sethi

Well-known member
If venus in 12th wide orbit conjunct with saturn and setile mars/pluto 9th scorpio. It also indicates secret/hidden emenies? or it act as shield against secret/hidden enemies?


It would mean that old people are also enemies or cause problems
 

beginner

Well-known member
Thanks for telling me the meaning of these aspects.


It would mean that old people are also enemies or cause problems




Thanks A50 for these links.



 

Claire19

Well-known member
I know the title may sound like it belongs in the "Houses" of the Forum, but I am not talking about the house directly; but that's a different story.
So basically it's like this. I have actually used the 'Search' function in this forum, and looked online, so I know what will come across, but I still wanted to get a more educated and less generalized response.

Simply, I want to know if Venus is Dignified or Debilitated in the 12th House. You see, most Traditional Astrologers place the 12th House as the most debilitated house in the Natal Chart. But I understand that the 12th House (along with the 5th) is where Venus Joy's in. So that is my basic question, is it "accidentally" debilitated , or "accidentally" dignified?
I dont use the terms dignified or debilitated. I take each planet on its own merits. Venus in the 12th house well aspected can mean a love for the underprivileged and less fortunate. Making money with charitabile organisations. Finding love in an institution of some kind or behind the scenes, archival work for instance......Many things. A spiritual karmic love affair.
The negative can be spending money on drugs and other mind altering substances. A secret and toxic love affair.
 

Claire19

Well-known member
That's exactly my question, like for an example. Venus in the 12th House, means that it would be a -5 if you were counting the strength of the planets. But since she's in her Joy, would she lose 5 points, or would it be neutralized or rather gain points instead, for being in her house of Joy?

I hope I make sense.
Just dont use that kind of method at all. It is limiting and I think misleading.....

Each planet by its merits and aspects made elsewhere. What sign and where else it is connected besides the 12th house.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
I have a 12th house Venus, but I think it's good because otherwise I would want personal relationships that the rest of the chart doesn't let me have.
 

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
Just dont use that kind of method at all. It is limiting and I think misleading.....

Each planet by its merits and aspects made elsewhere. What sign and where else it is connected besides the 12th house.

I honestly didn't know that this thread was going on after my last post, until I saw it in the "New Posts" section of this forum.

I don't really think that the Debilities and Dignities of a planet is misleading, if anything, it is helpful. It give's me insight into what planets are acting strongest in a natal chart. But like I said in the beginning, I don't what to know how Venus play's in the 12th House, what Venus brings, or any of that sort.

The only reason I started this topic was because I wanted to know whether or not Venus is dignified or debilitated here, from a traditionalist's point of view. So I thank everyone for their responses, and hope that someone could tell me point straight out.

Also, Venus is in Libra, and unaspected, so pretty much it's very lonely. Although Jupiter is the 12th here too (just not conjunct.).
 

Ruka_5

Banned
I know the title may sound like it belongs in the "Houses" of the Forum, but I am not talking about the house directly; but that's a different story.
So basically it's like this. I have actually used the 'Search' function in this forum, and looked online, so I know what will come across, but I still wanted to get a more educated and less generalized response.

Simply, I want to know if Venus is Dignified or Debilitated in the 12th House. You see, most Traditional Astrologers place the 12th House as the most debilitated house in the Natal Chart. But I understand that the 12th House (along with the 5th) is where Venus Joy's in. So that is my basic question, is it "accidentally" debilitated , or "accidentally" dignified?

I'm going to assume it is, considering it's the Piscean house in a chart, and Venus is exalted in Pisces, I'm assuming it probably manifests on a personal level similarly to a Piscean Venus or Venus in aspect to Neptune as well.

I would say it's probably a better placement for those who interact with the Venus in 12/Pisces/Neptune person than for the one who actually possesses it though. They always end up giving and giving to people who don't deserve it and/or just don't care about them.

I just finished an awkward conversation about thirty minutes ago with an acquaintance who stormed out when I told her I didn't like her friend. She got rather dramatic and asked me how I'd feel if she said that about a friend of mine, at which point I told her that it's natural for people to sometimes dislike one another and not get along, but that as long as the other person left my friend alone, I wouldn't care how they felt about them. I felt bad for her, watching her rant over this guy when I know firsthand (from past personal experinces I never told her about) that he's a jerk with a tendency to just discard people with no warning or goodbye and never look back, and that he's pretty selfish and ultimately about using other people to feed his own ego.

I tried to open her eyes a bit and gently pointed out that he never comes by or sets aside time to talk to her, at which point she insisted it was because he's busy and that they're in a relationship. Like I said, I know this guy pretty well and no matter how busy he is, if he really values someone he'll find time for them come hell-or-highwater. The whole exchange was just really weird and sad and I found myself wondering during it if she has Venus in aspect to Neptune, or in Pisces or in the 12th.
 
Well I didn't really want this to be made as interpretation of my chart or what Venus means in the 12th, just wanted to know - in a Traditional Sense - if Venus is Dignified or Debilitated in the 12th House.

Just for the record, my Venus is in Libra, and is a Singelton, meaning it makes no aspects whatsoever to any of my planets. The only aspect it makes is a Sextile to my MC. Jupiter is also in the 12th House, but it makes no conjunction to my Venus, sadly.

Anyway's, still would appreciate if someone told me 'point directly', wether it is Debilitated or Dignified, and thank you everyone for responding as well.

I suppose it could be accidentally dignified as venus is pisces is exalted. But being *unaspected* is a big disadvanage :pouty:
Traditional astrologers are minority on AW, unless you want to PM bobmenzo perhaps.

the sextile to MC suggests opportunities from behind the scenes that should be helpful in career/work/or what you become known for..
 

MSO

Well-known member
It all depends how you look at it. In traditional astrology, Venus is co-significator of the 12th House. Now, it all depends on how you view the 12th House. In traditional, the 12th is a bad place. Venus co-signifies it because of it's properties of addiction and self-destruction, something an over-indulgent Venus would lead to. Also, Saturn joys in the 12th, because Saturn is prone to mischief.

However, if you want to look at it like the moderners do, as a place of spiritual learning and understand (or whatever they claim it is) then I guess Jupiter would do well there, and Venus would somehow become joyed due to some association with Pisces (which apparently doesn't need to be on the cusp of the 12th).

Also, I wouldn't use a system of "points," that is adding and subtracting points from a planet based on its dignities. I think there may be some validity to the idea, but I don't really feel its necessary (purely my own speculation on the matter). I don't think having a +3 Venus helps you out any more than just flat out saying it's in the 12th House XD
 
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SniperBomber328

Well-known member
It all depends how you look at it. In traditional astrology, Venus is co-significator of the 12th House. Now, it all depends on how you view the 12th House. In traditional, the 12th is a bad place. Venus co-signifies it because of it's properties of addiction and self-destruction, something an over-indulgent Venus would lead to. Also, Saturn joys in the 12th, because Saturn is prone to mischief.

However, if you want to look at it like the moderners do, as a place of spiritual learning and understand (or whatever they claim it is) then I guess Jupiter would do well there, and Venus would somehow become joyed due to some association with Pisces (which apparently doesn't need to be on the cusp of the 12th).

Also, I wouldn't use a system of "points," that is adding and subtracting points from a planet based on its dignities. I think there may be some validity to the idea, but I don't really feel its necessary (purely my own speculation on the matter). I don't think having a +3 Venus helps you out any more than just flat out saying it's in the 12th House XD

I can see what your saying, and really hoped this wasn't too bad off a placement for my Venus. Having Jupiter here is I know, in Trad. Astrology bad, but Jupiter Conjuncts. my Fixed Star Spica, and my Asc, so I think less of its debility.

It was Venus who I was worried about, so I did some investigation and found that Venus, in Trad. joyed here and, that was where my question came from. But MSO, youv'e managed to clear my eyes somewhat. Thank you.
 

MSO

Well-known member
If Venus is in the same sign as your ascendant then it's in the 1st House. If your ascendant is Libra then Jupiter is certainly in the 1st House and is very happy sitting atop Spica (if it's within one degree orb). Lucky you!

Now lets just hope your Mercury and Sun aren't in Virgo so we don't have to give interps for 12th House Merc and Sun XD
 

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
If Venus is in the same sign as your ascendant then it's in the 1st House. If your ascendant is Libra then Jupiter is certainly in the 1st House and is very happy sitting atop Spica (if it's within one degree orb). Lucky you!

Now lets just hope your Mercury and Sun aren't in Virgo so we don't have to give interps for 12th House Merc and Sun XD

Nope, my Asc is 4 Degrees Scorpio, and both my Sun and Mercury are in 3 Degrees and 22 Degrees Scorpio, respectively. Only reason Jupiter conjuncts. my Asc, is because Jupiter is at 25'50 Degrees Libra. Si it's a sort' of loose conjunction.

Venus is at 13 Degrees Libra, so far apart from Jupiter, and therefore unaspected to any planet.
 

MSO

Well-known member
Hmm do you mind if I ask you a few questions regarding your Venus and Jupiter?

First, do you have anything in Virgo or the 6th House?

Second, what are your feelings towards servitude to others, healing others, and your own personal view towards work as you see it (as opposed to your interactions with co-workers)?

And third, and this may be a bit personal so please feel free to ignore it or send a PM or whatever, what kind of addictive tendencies do you have that you'd relate to Venus or Jupiter in any way?

On the whole, I've found information surrounding the 12th House to be hard to come by. The way I'm seeing it now, which is an arrogant position to be sure, modern astrologers just flat out make things up half the time, traditional astrologers are confusing and lead me to believe they really have no idea what the 12th House is about as it pertains to psychological conditions, and on the whole, no one really understands the 12th House even when they do.

And so I'm conducting my own personal research. I'm not expecting to figure it out with just your chart but heh, I have to start somewhere. :p
 

SniperBomber328

Well-known member
Hmm do you mind if I ask you a few questions regarding your Venus and Jupiter?

First, do you have anything in Virgo or the 6th House?

Second, what are your feelings towards servitude to others, healing others, and your own personal view towards work as you see it (as opposed to your interactions with co-workers)?

And third, and this may be a bit personal so please feel free to ignore it or send a PM or whatever, what kind of addictive tendencies do you have that you'd relate to Venus or Jupiter in any way?

On the whole, I've found information surrounding the 12th House to be hard to come by. The way I'm seeing it now, which is an arrogant position to be sure, modern astrologers just flat out make things up half the time, traditional astrologers are confusing and lead me to believe they really have no idea what the 12th House is about as it pertains to psychological conditions, and on the whole, no one really understands the 12th House even when they do.

And so I'm conducting my own personal research. I'm not expecting to figure it out with just your chart but heh, I have to start somewhere. :p

For your first question, I have nothing in Virgo, or my 6th House. No node, planet or PoF.

Second, I don't mind helping others so long as they make sure to say thanks, and not treat me as a personal slave. Now healing others is a sort of hard one for me since I don't know what to say to others to make them feel better. It's hard on me sometimes.
Can't say much about work, since I don't really work much, but if I had view, i'd be more relaxed about it.

Addictive Tendancies....hmmm.....can't say really, except mabye over-indulging and procrastinatiing a lot, especially when I'm sad or emotional! I do those two so much it's not even funny. Since both my Jupiter and Venus are in the 12th House, the only thing I found that fits the bill was the love and need for personal solitude at times. I do sometimes want to get away at times, simply because I feel it helps me recollect myself, and build up my strength to face the world again. Helps me think too, when I'm under pressure.

I hear ya on the 12th House thing, since Trad. make it a horrible place, while Modern just make it to unreal at times (unclear), so confusing on both ends. All I could tell you is, I'd rather just try to own my 12th House Venus and Jupiter since they are there to stay. No sense in hoping any other way.
 

Rebel Uranian

Well-known member
Actually, there are secondary progressions, and my Venus progressed out of the 12th. So did my Mercury and I forgot what else. I have Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Neptune in the 12th natally, although Neptune and especially Jupiter are close to the 1st. My life is not quite that bad as some people would think. The 12th house is not the *HOUSE OF DEATH* but it's not the house of wonderful mystical things either. It's definitely the house of the unseen, and maybe of what your and/or others reject, but it's really hard to say specifically what the 12th house is rather than what it isn't.
 
Actually, there are secondary progressions, and my Venus progressed out of the 12th. So did my Mercury and I forgot what else. I have Mercury, Venus, Jupiter and Neptune in the 12th natally, although Neptune and especially Jupiter are close to the 1st. My life is not quite that bad as some people would think. The 12th house is not the *HOUSE OF DEATH* but it's not the house of wonderful mystical things either. It's definitely the house of the unseen, and maybe of what your and/or others reject, but it's really hard to say specifically what the 12th house is rather than what it isn't.
house of death I am assuming must be a Trad view?

I hear ya on the 12th House thing, since Trad. make it a horrible place, while Modern just make it to unreal at times (unclear), so confusing on both ends. All I could tell you is, I'd rather just try to own my 12th House Venus and Jupiter since they are there to stay. No sense in hoping any other way.
Moderns don't have any problem interpreting the 12th at all, it seems rather narrow minded view. key words for 12th, *serve or suffer* let's not forget it's a cadent/hidden house.

Houses: angular houses 1/7 4/10 the energies of planets placed here are obvious cos it's your 'shop window' visible for everyone to see. Next the succeedent houses 2/8 & 5/11 the energies in these houses are not in shop window the are in the shop, but stood behind the counter, ready to come out when needed. Lastly, cadent houses 6/12 & 3/9 these houses/planets are not in shop window or stood behind the counter, they are in the back storeroom and only come out when 'triggered' or an emergency and much harder to recognise and access...

The houses are like the backdrop of a stage, the setting if you like, the planets are like actors and the aspects are how the planets behave in that settings/stage....

“The angles of the chart are the strongest, most potent sectors. In most house systems these mark the beginnings of the first, tenth, seventh and fourth houses, in order of potency. Any planet in conjunction with an angle will have a marked influence that resonates throughout the chart and greatly colours its overall meaning. Planets located in the angles of the chart are the strongest and most significant. Because of their primary importance, the angles are often referred to as the cardinal points and they relate directly to the cardinal directions east, south, west and north.”
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html
 
I certainly don't agree on Trad views that 12th loses 75% of it's expression

“The eleventh, second, eighth and fifth houses are called succedent ("following" the angles), while the third, twelfth, ninth and sixth are termed cadent ("falling away" from the angles). The succedents are next in strength. Planets in succedent houses function at around 50% of their power, based on the strength of an angular placement, which is the most potent.

The cadent houses are traditionally held to be poor and of little efficacy.
According to traditional astrology, planets in cadent houses only function at 25% of their power, compared with a position in one of the angles of the chart.
http://www.astrologycom.com/houses.html
 
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