Can you see chronic fatigue syndrom in a birth chart

BOOGY99

Well-known member
hi
My partner has had ME, CHRONIC FATIGUE SYNDROM, Fibromyalgia on and off for 3 years, and he thinks it may be back, if this is the case he may loose his job.

i have tried to look into his birth chart, 6th house and saturn ruler of his chart.

i did a google and came up with this info -

***
The Dysfunctional Saturn and its Impact upon Health
Dysfunctional Saturn aspects in the natal chart frequently contribute to health issues. For example, people with Fibromyalgia often have Saturn inconjunct (150) aspects in their natal chart.
These people have a difficult time assessing their accurate responsibility in most situations. With Fibromyalgia, these people are drawn to crises, care-taking and sacrificing themselves for others. Because they actually resent these crises, their bodies develop an “allergic reaction” to the adrenalin that they produce – hence, the great pain that they experience.
Because many diseases are associated with this dysfunctional pattern with Saturn, it is essential to change the psychological pattern in order to improve the health condition.
The best description of the Dysfunctional Saturn comes from my favorite book by Alan Epstein, The Psychodynamics of Inconjunctions. I love this book so much that I have two copies of it…just in case I cannot find one when I need to refer to it. Often, the psychological issues of this 150 degree aspect represent the psychological struggles about which the individual is most aware. They also represent important talents available to the individual, if they will overcome the dysfunctional side of the planet. Many of these talents are listed in Epstein’s book.
***

i have also done a progressed chart and noticed that his progressed Mars is in conjunction to his natal saturn, ruler of his sun and asc.

Does anybody know about this condition in a birth chart and where to look?

Also having trouble sending his birth chart to my thread, but its on its way
 

MamaMinnee

Well-known member
BOOGY99 said:
...i have also done a progressed chart and noticed that his progressed Mars is in conjunction to his natal saturn, ruler of his sun and asc..../QUOTE]

The Mars/Saturn is probably the culprit. The conjunction can mean that this is the beginning of a chronic {Saturn} issue with energy or action {Mars}.
 
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BOOGY99

Well-known member
thanks MamaMinnee xxx

i could not see anything in the birth chart relating to health matters for this condition.

my partner is a health fanatic, goes to the gym, swimming and has a physical job, i just thought he may be overdoing things.
 

freedomlover

Well-known member
i could not see anything in the birth chart relating to health matters for this condition.

my partner is a health fanatic, goes to the gym, swimming and has a physical job, i just thought he may be overdoing things.


I see some strong similarities between your friend's chart and my own. I have suffered with some form of chronic fatigue all my life -even as a child- and debilitating chronic fatigue for the last 7-10 years.

I'd attributed it mainly to my Cappy Asc disposited by Saturn in Pisces. Also the Mars in Capricorn ( can tend to overdo it- I agree with MamaMinnee that Mars/Saturn can be a major factor). Of course, in my chart Mars in Cap is disposited by Saturn in Pisces, too. ... sigh..:crying:
Also the Ur/Pl conjunction opposing Saturn/Chiron in Pisces.

All of this points to a need to learn good health and fitness- which your friend does... BUT! It also points out to balance the physical with the emotional. I'm starting to heal from mine ( finally!) - and the key was to do the emotional healing. Negative energy is what drains you.

With Cap Asc, and Saturnian focus... there is also the lesson to be learned to puruse love and not ambition. Cap placements can be very performance-oriented and have too much focus on the physical, at the expense of the emotional. This can cause one to over-do things. Perfectionism may be looming large within his psyche, as well.

His 1st house has intercepted Aquarius... this can show that his key may be to find his true path - he's not being true to what he really wants in some way - a major cause of the negative energy. He may have issues of rebellion that are causing him to self-sabotage his desire to be free. It may have to do with male/female equality/friendship issues in some way, with Mars and Venus being conjunct in Aquarius in that intercepted house.

Hope that helps... it's from pure experience. My chart is at bottom of post, if you want to look. Also, for the last several years, I have had a tight Mars/Venus conjunction in Aquarius in my Progressed Chart.

OH... one other thing.... he has alot of emphasis on Earth in his chart. He may want to do some introspection and re-examination of his beliefs about money and physical pleasures - also over-identification with the body may be a culprit. These are the kinds of issues that throw off the male/female equality thing. ( Mars/Venus conjunct in Aquarius)

FL
 

gemini59

Well-known member
I find this interesting and just wanted to corroborrate this theory. I have an incomjunction of Saturn to mars too. But Saturn is dignified in Capricorn at the MC and mars rules the ascendant but is in the 5th in Leo . I suffer from injuries to spine which includes C5 C6 and lower spine sprains, strains, etc. etc. and recent skin cancer. Again, it is from overdoing it and as you noted, converting emotional energy into overdoing it physically. And maybe not knowing how to deal with emotions...I am not sure....it is a earth/fire inconjunct so maybe the earth tries to dominant the fire or visa versa...but the summation is that these injuries cause some level of chronic pain and fatigue due to pain.
 

R4VEN

Well-known member
I agree with what's been said here, but just want to add another small observation.

I also have Cap rising, and Saturn (in 8th in Leo) inconjunct my Cap Asc. I used to exercise until I got blisters, and diet until you could see my ribcage, but was not good at moderating my behaviour. This tends to be aa Saturn/Cap thing. I began to have energy problems in my teens, and had to essentially give up work 14 years ago because I could barely get out of bed. The antidote - as mentioned by FL - has been steady and deliberate examining - and releasing - of my emotional patterns and belief systems.

I notice that Paul has Chiron and Saturn - both in the 1st - in quite wide conjunction, but close enough to still be conjunct. This is a placement which says to me that he is having to deal with issues around father/authority/who is in charge/who has the control. When he works through these, then he will begin to emerge from his chronic fatigue. Given that he is into exercise and activity in a big way, there seems to be something of a control factor to his life, where he believes that if he maintains control over what he can control - his body - then his life will be fine. His body is saying: "Please don't control me, but look to why you feel you have to control me."

I found this part of the quote very interesting, and very accurate.....
"These people have a difficult time assessing their accurate responsibility in most situations. With Fibromyalgia, these people are drawn to crises, care-taking and sacrificing themselves for others. Because they actually resent these crises, their bodies develop an “allergic reaction” to the adrenalin that they produce – hence, the great pain that they experience.
Because many diseases are associated with this dysfunctional pattern with Saturn, it is essential to change the psychological pattern in order to improve the health condition."


In your partner's case, Pluto has just entered his 12th house, and that is excellent energy for examining one's unconscious patterns. In fact, he'll probably not be able to avoid doing this.

BOOGY99, thank you for beginning this post, and including that quote. I have found it to be quite revealling.
 
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BOOGY99

Well-known member
Thanks for all the replies, this has been very interesting.

I now have to explain this to him, who is a non believer of astrology lol

I have noticed he is obsessed with physical exercise, and he may be using this as some sort of control.
I have noticed when he does get the ME symptoms, he is having difficulties at work, this does cause negative energy.(stress)

Re quote from freedomlover, this is very true.
Cap placements can be very performance-oriented and have too much focus on the physical, at the expense of the emotional. This can cause one to over-do things. Perfectionism may be looming large within his psyche, as well.

He is getting frustrated by not speaking his mind, like a silent rebel, where with me, sun conj Uranus, I am an out speaking rebel lol, but freedom is important to both of us. (one joint decision not to have children)

Even though he is a double Capricorn, he does remind me of a Pisces sometimes, proberly the natal Saturn in that sign.

I will relay this information to him and report what he says (if anything) xxx
 

Frisiangal

Well-known member
i could not see anything in the birth chart relating to health matters for this condition.

my partner is a health fanatic, goes to the gym, swimming and has a physical job, i just thought he may be overdoing things.

In the time it has taken me to write this, your latest reply has arrived on the thread, Boogy. I thought I'd post anyway, as there does seem to be some nails hit.:smile:

That Mars and Saturn can be associated with fibromyalgia has been excellently explained, and I think you are also right in the 'overdoing' things department. The T-square involving Sagittarius and Jupiter.:wink:

There's an analogy in your partner ' health fanatic, going to the gym'.
I get this picture of men lifting Saturn-ruled weights to strengthen their Mars-ruled muscles, in a similar manner to how mythological Atlas strains in carrying the weight of the world upon his shoulders. Physical exercise is an excellent way for (wo)men to get through the strain placed upon them in their everyday lives. You might care to ask your partner what 'strains' him? What load...or burden... is he carrying with(in) him to ease that of others ?

He does not seem to be an achiever...and this is not meant unkindly. He has a Cap. Sun in the 12th house, with Saturn ruler of Ascendant (physical constitution) in the 12th house with, if the birth time is accurate or later, Capricorn also on the 12th house cusp. There is a theory that when Ascendant and 12th house share the same sign, one could be called one's own (Ascendant) worst enemy(12th house). He could be very hard on himself. His Saturn is in Pisces that has an 'aura' of 12th house about it.
A problem with Capricorn for many is that it is an ambitious and achieving sign, and Saturn may have difficulty mastering its requirements if it is in a sign that works through a totally different value system. Saturn in Pisces can be the self discipline, the anchor in the storm providing for, and helping others; OR the uncontrollable ship tossing in its waves. Your partner's Saturn is opposing the generational Uranus-Pluto conjunction in Virgo (the health fanatic part:wink:) and this sign has a dread of poverty and unemploy-or-deploy-ment....of being useless instead of in service. How do you think this generation has been coping whilst transiting Saturn has been pulling its weight in the sign and, especially, activating that conjunction? Virgo's 'daily bread' has been in real difficulty of being taken from them. What is a manner to overcome that inner fear that Saturn creates? By physically proving that one is useful and serviceable, not only to the outside world but also to one's self.

Your partner may be going against the grain of his own true nature and it is hurting him. He may be one who considers work is necessary to live, but one does not have to live to work (once again, not meant unkindly), because he is not ambitious in that sense. Yet he would probably put his own life on the line for another and carry their weight on his proverbial shoulder..... as did Atlas.

He also has a Moon-Mars square. The Moon side needs the physical security and/of commitment, as a result of 3rd house influential relationships on the mind, of a steady rather than fluctuating job (Moon ruler 6th house). Yet Mars in Aquarius (and conjunct Venus!), in the 1st house, desires the freedom to come and go as it will, be unencumbered by others, be its own boss (that may seem withheld to him with Black Moon Lilith there). Both can be pretty adamant (fixed signs) in their ways, and if Mars takes to 'muscle work' to control this personal dilemma within him, there is more strain (Aquarius) than ease upon Mars' disposition. Being able to physically lift and control weights is only the physical approach to his problem; it doesn't cover the emotional pain within himself he is fighting against and consequently finds the outlet through his body.

Your partner may not even think that far. On one of the fibro. sites, I read that 'it can all be in the mind', which could explain the significance of the 3rd house thought patterns upon him. It is also coincidental that Mercury, the manner in which our functional thought works, is in an exact degree semi-square (difficulty in conflict situations....and warning to health) to natal Mars. His health could be strongly influenced by the mutable T-square to which Mercury is linked (the separating orb between Mercury-Saturn is too wide as an aspect). Does he want to be like others rather than the individual he is? He has strong opinions. Does he voice them? Is he proven right or think/believe others...or worse still, 'fate'....is/are working against him?
There was also a site in which the owner was able to cure her fibro. disorder. I would think that your partner is able to do the same....if he believes and has enough faith in himself.

(Does he carry the weight of a previous marriage with him?)


Frisiangal
 

allie_b

Well-known member
I have Uranus opposite my Moon natally and have CFS/Fibro currently (for the last 7 years).

For me, it's caused by Lyme Disease and I truly intend to kick its butt, so that I can return to my previous good health.

I will not resign myself to feeling this way for the rest of my life because of a natal indicator in my chart.
 

aquarius7000

Well-known member
Boogy,

Your partner is quite earthy per his chart, having both his lights and the Asc in earth signs, so earth is an important element in his case. Generally, when I look for fatigue and exhaustion, I look for afflictions from Sat (restricts and blocks energy) and/or Nep (dissolves energy, the latter is elevated in his chart), esp to the Sun (general vitality and vigour), Mars (energy and action), and the 1st (general physical self) plus 6th (afflictions to health) houses.

The ruler of his Sun and Asc, Saturn (dry), is not well-placed in Pisces (water, and a sign most known for inaction), which conflicts with its nature of being dry, stable, pragmatic and ambitious. (If we were to briefly delve a bit deeper into traditional Astrology, we see that Sat is peregrine (weak) and ruled by a detrimented Jup, so further weakened). Also, Saturn is further afflicted by Ura, and, since I use Chiron, also by Chiron. This Saturn also aspects both the lights, though in sextile, but is not strong itself, so can't lend any strength/support. It also sits in his 1st house of general physical make-up or constitution and also rules it plus the Sun, as already mentioned. Remember that Saturn's nature is one of restriction and slowing-down, and chronic when it comes to ailments. Does your partner ever complain of joint-pains or stiffness? You have already researched the bit on "dysfunctional Saturn", so won't comment on that further. Mars is also in a fixed sign again hindering its energy and activity, but it wants to perform actively sitting in the 1st house- so also physically.

Further, looking at the 5th house and Jupiter for physical exercise, we notice a mutual reception between Jup and Mer (Mer also rules the 5th), but one of detriment. The planets are further afflicted due to their opposition of eachother. However, Jup in the 5th wants to be 'sporting' and active, plus expand on the 5th-house matter (sports, recreation and creativity as the forms of self-expression). Now, looking at Mars, we see that it is in Aquarius, where it is not that happy either, and is disposited by a weak Saturn. Also, it closely afflicts the Moon (which otherwise is strongly placed in Tau, perhaps also making him fairly health-conscious), which rules the 6th. The Sun in the 12th also cannot perform well and might feel its energy dissolving. I am wondering if your friend does some overseas travel or might be a bit spritually oriented. This might help him find his balance, at least.


:)AQ7
 
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I find this interesting and just wanted to corroborrate this theory. I have an incomjunction of Saturn to mars too. But Saturn is dignified in Capricorn at the MC and mars rules the ascendant but is in the 5th in Leo . I suffer from injuries to spine which includes C5 C6 and lower spine sprains, strains, etc. etc. and recent skin cancer. Again, it is from overdoing it and as you noted, converting emotional energy into overdoing it physically. And maybe not knowing how to deal with emotions...I am not sure....it is a earth/fire inconjunct so maybe the earth tries to dominant the fire or visa versa...but the summation is that these injuries cause some level of chronic pain and fatigue due to pain.

Not only is the quincunx a frustration of energy expression, it creates, stop/go situations and can also suggest that you may suffer in relationships and not be able to do anything about it and poss never understand why---- just a theory :whistling:

You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

Just look at those huge 1-7th houses. In Equal house Saturn is in 2nd and it's well known for having a 'fear of poverty' placed here...
Moon would be 4th and Jupiter 6th. But this jupiter is challenged by square to pluto/uranus -- expansion without enough thought or plans, thinnking anything is possible but the Jupiter opp mercury either overtalks or undertalks when it should be talking on occasions.

Jupiter also has quincunx to neptune = reality and fantasy. Could do well in fields of music, young children and spiritual things. Expansive enthusiasm (jupiter) is clouded confused and disillusioned with a nagging feeling of falsely evaluating tings. Now Neptune conj MC gives no clear image, definition of what he wants to do careerwise or what he wants to be known for


When young you may be rather aimless or confused about your place in the world. In early adult life it is likely that you struggle to find ways to express your imagination, fantasies, and ideals in your career. Work that involves compassionate service (such as medicine or the ministry) may be your calling. If you lack personal integrity and honesty, you quickly go to the opposite extreme and you can con others through dishonesty and trickery. Music, art, film-making or entertainment are also areas in which you are well-suited.
http://cafeastrology.com/articles/neptuneinhouses.html

There is a constant dilema of Saturn opp pluto/uranus Saturn hard work, duty responsibility v freedom, inventiveness (uranus) In Equal these are 8th (conj 9th cusp) opp 2nd saturn (personal beliefs, values) 8=other peoples beliefs and values
http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrology/interpreting/houses/house8.html
Satur opp pluto is ambition, but that generation have had to learn the hard way of anilation, transformation and hard work/duties responsibilities.

So after age 19 when SA sun progressed out of 12th should have been a more confident time where his ego energies started to express themselves in a more direct manner. But sun in 12th is rather like scorpio, a very private person, who needs time alone to commune. So for furthe research on 12th house try here.

12th house planets/aspects
http://www.dkfoundation.co.uk/dkfoun...rmaHouse12.htm
http://www.astrology.com/aboutastrol...s/house12.html

Research threads on AW
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ght=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ght=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ght=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ght=12th+house
http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum...ght=12th+house
 

BOOGY99

Well-known member
So after age 19 when SA sun progressed out of 12th should have been a more confident time where his ego energies started to express themselves in a more direct manner. But sun in 12th is rather like scorpio, a very private person, who needs time alone to commune. So for furthe research on 12th house try here.

****************


I have finally pinned him down to read all the info on this thread. (got my bossy head on!!!!!)

This attracted his attention first, when he was 19, he became very confident, and thought he was a ladies man, he had a lot of attention (this is b4 i met him)

He said he hates responsibility, and this causes stress for him. He likes his freedom and his own space, but would like to say he likes to chat and loves gossip!!!

Getting back to health, he is a worrier, he keeps his emotons inside,(blocked) he has trouble expressing them, he also has a lot of bad nightmares too.

looking at it all now he thinks that it could be blocked negitive energy, due to keeping everything emotional/worries to himself.

Touch wood, he is ok at present!!!

Thankyou everybody to all of your inputs and replies, and hope it helps others too xxx
 

Nexus7

Well-known member
There have been some excellent remarks already on why the person with this chart might have ME.

Could it be that his Asc is within 2 degrees of being on his Saturn/Neptune midpoint?

If so, that would really make for a difficult Pisces Asacendant - here, so much energy would somehow get...sapped.

Saturn/Neptune ,idpoints do not as a rule enjoy a great reputation aomngst the Ebertins - it can indicate depression, or possibly, hard-o-define organic condiions that may somehow mimic drepressive conditions.
 
There have been some excellent remarks already on why the person with this chart might have ME.

Could it be that his Asc is within 2 degrees of being on his Saturn/Neptune midpoint?

If so, that would really make for a difficult Pisces Asacendant - here, so much energy would somehow get...sapped.

Saturn/Neptune ,idpoints do not as a rule enjoy a great reputation aomngst the Ebertins - it can indicate depression, or possibly, hard-o-define organic condiions that may somehow mimic drepressive conditions.

I'm always a little suspicious when people say they are born o'clock, half past and quarter to and quarter past and your 'Time' is ultimately very important with Astrology and in this light and using solar arcs for rectification purposes then.....9.0am seems pretty rounded up to me....

You must have a rectified 'time of birth' to use midpoints and they should be no more than 1'30" away to be valid-- in my opinion
 

SagiCap

Well-known member
I see some strong similarities between your friend's chart and my own. I have suffered with some form of chronic fatigue all my life -even as a child- and debilitating chronic fatigue for the last 7-10 years.

I'd attributed it mainly to my Cappy Asc disposited by Saturn in Pisces. Also the Mars in Capricorn ( can tend to overdo it- I agree with MamaMinnee that Mars/Saturn can be a major factor). Of course, in my chart Mars in Cap is disposited by Saturn in Pisces, too. ... sigh..:crying:
Also the Ur/Pl conjunction opposing Saturn/Chiron in Pisces.

All of this points to a need to learn good health and fitness- which your friend does... BUT! It also points out to balance the physical with the emotional. I'm starting to heal from mine ( finally!) - and the key was to do the emotional healing. Negative energy is what drains you.

With Cap Asc, and Saturnian focus... there is also the lesson to be learned to puruse love and not ambition. Cap placements can be very performance-oriented and have too much focus on the physical, at the expense of the emotional. This can cause one to over-do things. Perfectionism may be looming large within his psyche, as well.

His 1st house has intercepted Aquarius... this can show that his key may be to find his true path - he's not being true to what he really wants in some way - a major cause of the negative energy. He may have issues of rebellion that are causing him to self-sabotage his desire to be free. It may have to do with male/female equality/friendship issues in some way, with Mars and Venus being conjunct in Aquarius in that intercepted house.

Hope that helps... it's from pure experience. My chart is at bottom of post, if you want to look. Also, for the last several years, I have had a tight Mars/Venus conjunction in Aquarius in my Progressed Chart.

OH... one other thing.... he has alot of emphasis on Earth in his chart. He may want to do some introspection and re-examination of his beliefs about money and physical pleasures - also over-identification with the body may be a culprit. These are the kinds of issues that throw off the male/female equality thing. ( Mars/Venus conjunct in Aquarius)

FL

I see a few similarities to my own chart with yours as well, Freedomlover. Moon in Aqua, Cap Asc and Sag Sun. Maybe more, I didn't look, but I also feel there may be some type of chronic fatigue happening with me too.
 

Sunny

Well-known member
A very interesting discussion here, and I hope that all your analyzis will help others.
I read with great attention this sentence
it is essential to change the psychological pattern in order to improve the health condition."
Yes, that's very right and would really help to deal with our emotions. And to do this we need first to detect, what kind of psychical behaviour we have and try to undertake a concient serious work on the three other possibilities - I am referring to the quarternary system of C.G. Jung.

Good luck for you!!

Sunny
 
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