Does this chart belong to a Governor?

I recently reconnected with an old friend. He stated that, since he was a little boy, he has had a strong sense that he will one day be the Governor of a state. I wondered if this was strongly suggested by his chart, so I took a look. The main thing that jumped out at me was the striking set of "0" degrees in Cardinal signs on all four angles! The Vertex is also at "0" degrees, exactly conjunct the DSC. Just for the heck of it, I threw in the asteroid, "America". I was a little freaked out when it showed up at the same "0" Libra point as the Vertex! By now, I'm thinking "President", not "Governor"!

But... what do the rest of you see in this chart? I'm not that experienced in this type of astrology. I would think Jupiter in Capricorn in the 10th would be a good sign. However, it is retrograde. I would also think that the the Mercury in Aries in the 1st opposite Uranus (r) in Libra in the 7th would make him very good at debate, and seeing both sides of an issue. He does express himself very well.

Here is his natal chart:

View Natal Chart for this Question

(If you're having trouble viewing the chart, you'll need to do one of the following, depending on your browser: Click in the upper left hand corner - you should see a little magnifying glass
OR Click in the upper left hand corner - look for orange ball with blue arrows in lower right hand corner of chart - click on the orange ball.)

Thanks for alerting me, SilverFloe. It worked fine when I put it up. I tried it again several times, and it just says "connection timed out", and nothing ever shows up - don't know what the problem could be.

Anyway, for those who are interested, his natal data is:

May 5, 1972 @ 4:34am in Parkersburg, WV, USA

The main thing that jumped out at me was the striking set of "0" degrees in Cardinal signs on all four angles!

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I heard somewhere that one of the presidential candidates--I believe it was Rudy Giuliani--had all four of his natal angles conjunct the Aries Point, and with Pluto about to enter the zero degree of Capricorn, the astrologer thought that he was a strong contender for the presidency.

However, it doesn't sound like your friend is immediately running for a governmental position, and this transit will eventually expire--but it is something to think about.

Perhaps I'm just feeling lazy, but I think it would be easier to cast a horary chart if you wish to know if your friend will one day be governor. I believe that the type of career one is best suited to can be determined from the natal chart to a certain extent, so perhaps we could determine if he has any astrological factors that would make him a good politician, but it seems nearly impossible to me to determine if he would win an election in order to become a governor by observing the natal chart alone.

I think it's interesting that your friend has a Capricorn North Node; Capricorn is associated with Saturn and the tenth house using the astrological alphabet, yet the actual placement of the North Node is in the eleventh house. Strangely enough, the North Node is conjunct the ruler of the South Node, which gives me a sense of going between the past and the future. I'm not sure how this would affect his political aspirations, but the Moon makes an out-of-sign conjunction with the North Node and it is in the sign of Aquarius, which I've read could refer to "the people" due to its opposition to Leo, the sign of the "king" or "ruler." The eleventh is the house of hopes and aspirations, so perhaps this could indicate political aspirations--aspirations for "ruling," or rather governing, the people? This may be a bit of a stress, for I most likely would not have come up with this interpretation had you not suggested it, but it's still a possibility.

I would think Jupiter in Capricorn in the 10th would be a good sign. However, it is retrograde.

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Jupiter is less strongly placed in Capricorn than it is in Sagittarius, but as you mentioned, it has accidental dignity in the tenth house. I have a tenth house Saturn in Capricorn, and although it's strongly placed, I don't think it would do your friend good because it often indicates a "fall from power" or a "fall from grace;" no, I think he's much better off with having a tenth house Jupiter!

I would also think that the the Mercury in Aries in the 1st opposite Uranus (r) in Libra in the 7th would make him very good at debate, and seeing both sides of an issue. He does express himself very well.

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Don't forget that Mercury and Mars are in mutual reception, or that Mercury is the ruler of the third house cusp! No, I don't doubt at all that your friend is good at debate, but I'm biased because I have this natal position as well!

The combination of Mars and Venus at the end of the third house is interesting as well, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it; this conjunction is applying towards a square aspect with Pluto, so there's some powerful energy there.

You may also wish to look into his Saturn-Neptune opposition, because I believe that quite a few of our country's leaders have had some kind of Saturn-Neptune aspect. Of course, this could be entirely due to the fact that a leader elected at any particular time will most likely be drawn from a group of individuals who may have been born during the year of a Saturn-Neptune aspect, but even so, it's an additional influence to consider. I wish I could find the article where I first read this information...

And last, but not least, there may be a Kite configuration in this chart depending upon which astrologer you consult; Pluto is in late Virgo and is in a different element than the Moon and Saturn, to which it makes out-of-sign trine aspects. Some astrologers would not consider this to be a Grand Trine, but I'm feeling a bit rebellious tonight and thought I'd mention it, even though you probably already noticed. The Kite is focused upon Saturn, which is the ruler of the tenth house; this seems good for political aspirations, since the tenth house is associated with government.

Arian Maverick

P.S. I couldn't view the chart either, but I created it myself using the data you provided.

I tried the chart one more time before I signed out for the night. It took me to photobucket, where I received this message:

Alert: This album is temporarily unavailable. We are aware of the issue and are working hard to resolve it. Thank you for your patience!

So apparently it will work again sometime in the near future.

Mav:

Thanks for your detailed response. I'm going to bed. Hopefully my energy will be good enough to come back to this tomorrow, and I will respond then.

FL,
Hi, could you not save the natal to your computer and just upload it to the first post of this thread?
there is the option to browse and upload and it saves of time, and would save us waiting for image shack to get it together!

FL,
Hi, could you not save the natal to your computer and just upload it to the first post of this thread?
there is the option to browse and upload and it saves of time, and would save us waiting for image shack to get it together!

Click to expand...

LG,

Technically - yes, I could. If the site was not back up today, I probably would do that. However the chart is working fine today, and that was the only time I've ever had a problem with the link to Photobucket in the 1 1/2 years I've used their service. Every site has to go down for technical maintenance now and then.

FL

Mav,

However, it doesn't sound like your friend is immediately running for a governmental position, and this transit will eventually expire--but it is something to think about.

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Yes, the current Pluto transit won't do much for hitting his Jupiter, in terms of his running for office, I would think. However, maybe when Pluto gets to his North Node at 28*Cap... Also, would that about conincide with his next Jupiter return after this one? Just pondering....

Perhaps I'm just feeling lazy, but I think it would be easier to cast a horary chart if you wish to know if your friend will one day be governor. I believe that the type of career one is best suited to can be determined from the natal chart to a certain extent, so perhaps we could determine if he has any astrological factors that would make him a good politician, but it seems nearly impossible to me to determine if he would win an election in order to become a governor by observing the natal chart alone.

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Yes, that's true. However, he says he is quite sure he will be a Governor some day. I was kind of using the chart for practice, to see what indicators in a chart would indicate that, in general - if there were common denominators, or aspects/signs, etc, that showed up alot in government leaders' charts. I guess I was wondering if what he is quite sure of is in his chart. It does look to me like he has the chart tendencies of a good political leader.

Also, I was really interested as to what those "All 4 angles at 0"Cardinal" could possibly indicate, so I posted it this way. I might do a horary on it one day, as well.

I think it's interesting that your friend has a Capricorn North Node; Capricorn is associated with Saturn and the tenth house using the astrological alphabet, yet the actual placement of the North Node is in the eleventh house. Strangely enough, the North Node is conjunct the ruler of the South Node, which gives me a sense of going between the past and the future.

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Before I read your post, the idea had come to me that he had been in some sort of high office in government in a past life, in the early part of US history. Then I read what you said about "going between the past and future"... hmmm. Moon does rule "training/history". Perhaps he has "practice" at this from a past life. It could be Revolutionary War era, as Moon is in Aquarius/11th. Wouldn't that be the house/sign to do with revolution?

Don't forget that Mercury and Mars are in mutual reception, or that Mercury is the ruler of the third house cusp! No, I don't doubt at all that your friend is good at debate, but I'm biased because I have this natal position as well.

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I totally missed that one! Yes, that explains alot, and he is very quick-witted, like you!

The combination of Mars and Venus at the end of the third house is interesting as well, but I'm not quite sure how to interpret it; this conjunction is applying towards a square aspect with Pluto, so there's some powerful energy there.

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I found that intriguing, as well. I know Gemini is supposed to be the sign governing Twin Flames, according to some schools of astrology. Possibly balancing within, and coming to terms with his "shadow side", especially with that square to Pluto (r) at 29*Virgo, conjunct his DSC.

And last, but not least, there may be a Kite configuration in this chart depending upon which astrologer you consult; Pluto is in late Virgo and is in a different element than the Moon and Saturn, to which it makes out-of-sign trine aspects. Some astrologers would not consider this to be a Grand Trine, but I'm feeling a bit rebellious tonight and thought I'd mention it, even though you probably already noticed. The Kite is focused upon Saturn, which is the ruler of the tenth house; this seems good for political aspirations, since the tenth house is associated with government.

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No, I didn't see that one at all, as Astrodienst didn't draw aspect lines. I do see it now that you pointed it out. But, unless I'm looking at it funny, the kite is focused on Neptune(r) at 4*Sag in the 8th, with the other side of the point of the kite coming from Neptune to his DSC.

Hmmm... I wonder what that could mean?

Also, his Chiron in Aries in the 1st is exactly opposite his Uranus(r) in Libra within 1 arc minute! That is one close opposition. I wonder what that could imply in a chart?

Thanks again for your input, Mav!

FL

No, I didn't see that one at all, as Astrodienst didn't draw aspect lines. I do see it now that you pointed it out. But, unless I'm looking at it funny, the kite is focused on Neptune(r) at 4*Sag in the 8th, with the other side of the point of the kite coming from Neptune to his DSC.

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I too am never quite sure which part of the Kite is the apex, but I think I recall someone describing a Kite configuration once and referring to the planet opposite the planet that I naturally assumed to be the apex; like you, I assumed the planet in the position of Neptune was the apex, but I think it's Saturn.

I'll have to look up a definition of this configuration and see if I can find an answer to this dilemma; I also want to try to find that stupid article that seems to have disappeared in cyberspace.

I'm glad that you told us that you weren't seeing indications in this chart that suggested he would become governor, because I didn't immediately see them either but was afraid of insulting you. It's possible that there's something critical that I'm missing, perhaps the influence of some royal fixed stars through parans, but I'd need to study the chart in greater depth than I'd have to determine this. Not to mention that I haven't yet figured out a simple way to calculate parans or even a difficult, time-consuming way; it's a concept that simultaneously intrigues and eludes me.

I totally missed that one! Yes, that explains alot, and he is very quick-witted, like you!

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The great or not-so-great thing about mutual receptions, if there are not very many other planets in the natal chart that are strongly placed in their own sign, is that almost all of the other planets in the chart figure back to the mutual reception through the trail of dispositors. I haven't studied this chart since last night, but if I recall correctly, most of the planets in your friend's chart do indeed come back to the mutual opposition between Mercury and Mars.

I haven't found much information online about this mutual reception--or even about the specific effects of other mutual receptions--but I remember that Kite mentioned once to me that it could possibly indicate a talent using one's hands; he called it a "true surgeon's aspect." I've never been particularly gifted at putting things together or taking them apart, perhaps because I haven't been exposed much to this type of stereotypical male activity, yet I was born with long, thing "piano fingers" that have served me well as a woodwind musician. I don't know if your friend has this same kind of physical attribute, but I've always personally attributed them to chart ruler Mars in Gemini in the third house, which he has as well. It doesn't really matter if he plays an instrument or not, but if he has a talent working with his hands, he may wish to consider some kind of technical career. Such a career doesn't necessarily have to hinder his political aspirations, if he plays his cards right.

Another thought just occurred to me; with an Aries Ascendant, perhaps it is simply power that he craves? One does not necessarily need to be a governor or in some other kind of high political position in order to have "power" over other people; he could be the president of a business, for example, or of some other kind of enterprise.

I believe that perhaps what we should be searching for in this chart is why your friend has such strong convictions and desires of being governor rather than if he is capable of doing so--although this is certainly something else to look at. Perhaps if we can answer this first question, though, you can better guide him towards a career he may be better astrologically equipped to pursue, and thus, have a greater chance of experience success.

One thing in particular that makes me believe your friend may not enjoy politics as much as he believes he would is precisely that Aries Ascendant, which would most likely instill within him a strong desire to create his own destiny. Politicians can certainly put up a strong image and create a successful compaign, but ultimately, it is the people who decide their fate--people whose votes may not solely political issues, but personal biases and party affiliations as well. I don't think this would be an easy pill for him to swallow.

Also, with Pluto conjunct the Descendant, I'm a bit wary about him harboring a strong desire to control others, to wield power over them--it's a very tight conjunction, albeit an out-of-sign one, and Pluto occupies a critical degree to boot.

I don't usually consider Chiron much in my chart interpretations, but first house Chiron in Aries is the closest planet to the Ascendant and it is conjunct Mercury (thinking) with an orb of four degrees. This seems to indicate to me that your friend has been wounded in his sense of self; perhaps he secretly does not feel strongly in himself and therefore wishes to gain a false sense of power through dominating others (Pluto). I understand that this a vague and somewhat unfair assumption to make, but there's a strong first house-seventh house-tenth house dynamic through the T-square, and Chiron opposes Uranus much more tightly than Mercury does, although the Mercurial energy is definitely included as well. This seems to be a crisis of cardinal energy; a strong desire to lead, to move forward, to create.

I don't have any planets in my seventh house, although I do have Lilith there--as does your friend, but I have Lilith in Libra instead of Scorpio--but I do have an usually strong first house-tenth house emphasis, so I understand this drive, this temptation to assume positions of power. I've never held strong convictions to be a politician, although I have been encouraged to explore this field by other members, but I think I've shied away from it due to my Pisces North Node. I know the nodal axis is not a planet--it's not even a physical body--but I have found it to be a very strong guiding force in natal charts, which is why I expressed particular interest in your friend's Capricorn Node.

I've also been fascinated by what I often describe as the "contradicting influences" in some individuals charts, when the North Node is located in a specific sign but conjunct the planetary ruler of the South Node. My father happens to have a very similar nodal axis in his chart--his North Node is in Capricorn but conjunct a Capricorn Moon instead of an Aquarius Moon--but I could never quite grasp the implications of this paradox since I've always thought his nodal axis should have been reversed, that he should have a Capricorn South Node instead of a Capricorn North Node. I don't know if your friend displays the same type of Capricorn traits as my father, but I've always found it curious that the North Node and the Moon were the only Capricorn influences in his chart since he displays these traits so strongly.

Again, your friend doesn't appear to have a particularly large emphasis on any particular sign, but I wonder if the power of his Capricorn North Node is somehow intensified, if he feels a great urge to really live there and exaggerate some of its traits.

It's sort of a wide orb, but coming back to seventh house Lilith, it appears to make a square aspect to the Aquarius Moon, and the Moon is applying towards this aspect, so it's increasing in strength. I believe the Lilith energy may figure strongly in him because Lilith is the only planet in Scorpio--the only other influence in a Mars-ruled sign besides Chiron, and thus, the only other influence that is directly disposited by the Mercury-Mars mutual reception we discussed earlier.

Arian Maverick

Having retrogrades definitely does *not* preclude your friend from being governor one day or even President. *However*, at least (I say at least because this guy died before he finished his study but I don't know when he died - still at least 36 US Presidents have zero retrogrades) 85% of US presidents have no retrograde planets even though statistically speaking zero retrogrades only occur 7.7% of the time.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Astrology-2205/Six-Retrogrades.htm

I don't think a similar study has been done on governors though I know Arnie (Governator) has zero retrogrades.

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/news/arnolds-eminence.html

You know, given this, maybe we should have a look at the number of retrogrades in the current presidential candidates' charts...Oh god, I looked at Clinton, Obama, Guilani, Romney, McCain and Huckabee and Huckabee is the only one with a retrograde planet free chart. Nooooooo.....! I just checked George W. Bush's chart, Bill Clinton's chart and they both have no natal retrograde planets either which just helps confirm the hypothesis I really really hope that this will be one of the off years where someone without the zero retrograde advantage wins such as George W. Bush's Dad who has 3 retrogrades. Not Huckabee as President You know looking through the previous US president's charts it does look like quite a few of them did have retrogrades - Bush Snr, Johnson, Nixon, Kennedy. I wonder how accurate that data above is...I guess, just ignore what I wrote above about retrogrades then

I've heard about this strange "zero retrograde" phenomenon in a disproportionately large percentage of the U.S. presidents, yet does this apply to governors as well? I know that Arnold Schwarzenegger is currently the 38th governor of California, but obviously there have been a lot more governors than presidents or even presidential candidates, and perhaps with the exception of Arnold, generally governors aren't nearly as well-known outside of the state in which they serve.

Nevertheless, it might be interesting to gather a list of the governors of West Virginia and see if such a pattern emerged in this state, which is where I imagine freedomlover's friend wishes to serve.

EDIT: You've gotta love Wikipedia; look what I found!

List of Governors of West Virginia. Most of the governors have links to their own separate Wikipedia pages, and from my experiences, most of these pages contain the date of birth, so it should be relatively simple to detect a pattern if any exists.

Alright, here we go:

Arthur I. Boreman - born July 24, 1823 in Waynesburg, Pennsylvania

Number of Retrograde Planets: 3 (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

Daniel D. T. Farnsworth - born December 23, 1819 in Staten Island, New York

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Mercury and Mars)

William E. Stevenson - born March 18, 1820 in Warren, Pennsylvania

No Retrograde Planets

John J. Jacob - born December 9, 1829 in Green Spring on the Potomac River north of Rommey in (Hampshire County)

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Saturn and Pluto)

Henry M. Mathews - born March 29, 1834 in Frankford, WV

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Mercury and Saturn)

Jacob B. Jackson - born April 6, 1829 in Parkersburg, WV

Number of Retrograde Planets: 1 (Jupiter)

Emanuel Willis Wilson - born on August 11, 1844 in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia in Jefferson County

Number of Retrograde Planets: 6 (Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

Aretas B. Fleming - born on October 15, 1839 in Fairmont in Marion County, West Virginia

Number of Retrograde Planets: 4 (Venus, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

William A. MacCorkle - born on May 7, 1857 in Lexington, VA

Number of Retrograde Planets: 1 (Venus)

George W. Atkinson - born on June 29, 1845 in Charleston, WV

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Saturn and Neptune)

Albert B. White - born on September 22, 1856 in Cleveland, OH
William M. O. Dawson - born on May 21, 1853 in Bloomington, MD
William E. Glasscock - born on December 13, 1862 in Glasscock was born in Monongalia County, West Virginia
Henry D. Hatfield - born on September 15, 1875 in Mate Creek, WV
John J. Cornwell - born on July 11, 1867 in Pennsboro, WV
Ephraim F. Morgan - born on January 16, 1869 in Forksburg, WV
Howard Mason Gore - born on October 12, 1887 in Harrison Co., WV
William G. Conley - born on January 8, 1866 in Kingwoodm Preston County, West Virginia
Herman G. Kump - born on October 31, 1877 in Capon Springs, WV
Homer A. Holt - born on March 1, 1898 in Lewisburg, WV
Matthew M. Neely - born on November 9, 1874 near Grove, Doddridge County, WV
Clarence W. Meadows - born on February 11, 1904 in Beckley, WV
Okey L. Patteson - born on September 14, 1898 in Dingess, Mingo County, WV
William C. Marland - born on March 26, 1918 in Johnson City, IL
Cecil H. Underwood - born on November 5, 1922 in Joseph's Mills, West Virginia
William Wallace Barron - born on December 8, 1911 in Elkins, WV
Hulett C. Smith - born on October 21, 1918 in Beckley, WV
Arch A. Moore, Jr. - born on April 16, 1923 in Moundsville, West Virginia
Jay Rockefeller - born on June 18, 1937 in New York, New York
Arch A. Moore, Jr. - born on April 16, 1923 in Moundsville, West Virginia
Gaston Caperton - born on February 21, 1940 in Charleston, WV
Cecil H. Underwood - born on November 5, 1922 in Joseph's Mills, West Virginia
Bob Wise - born on January 6, 1948 in Washington, D.C.
Joe Manchin - born on August 24, 1947 in Farmington, West Virginia

I'll try to finish this later, but my Aries stellium was getting a bit restless. But from this small sample, you'll see that only one of the early West Virgina governors has no retrograde planets, so this doesn't appear to be a pattern among them--yet.

Arian Maverick

I had an actual look at the data for some US Presidents to see how many retrograde planets they have:

George Washington - 3
John Adams - 3
Thomas Jefferson - 3
James Madison - 2
James Monroe - 2

Abraham Lincoln - 0
Theodore Roosevelt - 4
Woodrow Wilson - 4
Franklin D. Roosevelt - 3
Bill Clinton - 0
George H. Bush - 3
Gerald Ford - 2
Richard Nixon - 3
Lyndon Johnson - 2
John Kennedy - 1
George W. Bush - 0

I am *really* begin to wonder where this guy got his data from. I think this thing about zero retrogrades and the Presidency is false.

Reviving this thread because of the upcoming Jup/Uranus conjunction at 0' Aries.

This will hit this man's Ascendant - also his anti-vertex. Also, the two planets will be within orb of conjunction for a week or two prior to this - in Pisces, at which time they will oppose his Pluto Rx 1t 29' Virgo, conjunct the DSC. Any thoughts on how this may play out in this man's life? It seems very pertinent, as well, because all 4 angles are at 0' Cardinal - so it will actually aspect all 4 angles exactly.

This chart - if it does not require much or any adjustment - belongs to someone who:

(1) Shows a Cardinal sign, Aries, on the Asc, which is most given to proactive leadership, and a Cardinal sign (Capricorn) on the MC, which reinforces it.
(2) Shows an interception of signs in the 6th-12th, indicating public service (charitable, humanitarian, medical, psychological, sociological, govt, etc).
(3) Shows Pluto opp Asc, indicative of the strong affect on people and strong push needed to do whatever it takes.
(4) Shows Mars (+Venus) sq Asc, indicative of a very forward-moving ambitious person (+charm, people skill).
(5) Shows a 1st house planet, Mercury, opp and 7th house planet, Uranus, creating further emphasis on communicating and connecting with others and the ability to display uniqueness or originality.

Furthermore:

-- Sun P Pluto
-- MC [23 S] in extreme declination
-- MC P Jupiter

There are more indicators, but these are enough to show that this chart, if it needs no serious adjustment, does in fact belong to someone capable of campaigning for and probably winning a public office like a Governorship. In fact, these are many of the same kinds of indicators that show up in the birth charts of those who become President of the US.

He does have strong oratory skills as per the 3rd house planets. His North node is in Capricorn in the 10th along with Jupiter. This indicates a public life and in politics. His Saturn is also trine Moon in 11th Aquarius and if he concentrated on humanitarian issues he would do well. He would do well handling the media and the press etc. He would be able to appeal to families and the general folk and have a sense of rapport.

His chart ruler Mars is in conjunction with Venus in the 3rd and again that shows charm and attractive speech with perhaps an appealing timbre of voice. His Taurus Sun would give him steadiness and a groundedness.

So yes I dont see why he cant aspire to governorship.

Yoi said:

I had an actual look at the data for some US Presidents to see how many retrograde planets they have:

George Washington - 3
John Adams - 3
Thomas Jefferson - 3
James Madison - 2
James Monroe - 2

Abraham Lincoln - 0
Theodore Roosevelt - 4
Woodrow Wilson - 4
Franklin D. Roosevelt - 3
Bill Clinton - 0
George H. Bush - 3
Gerald Ford - 2
Richard Nixon - 3
Lyndon Johnson - 2
John Kennedy - 1
George W. Bush - 0

I am *really* begin to wonder where this guy got his data from. I think this thing about zero retrogrades and the Presidency is false.

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Retrograde planets show rather a slow or limited influence rather, dont they? How would they pertain to Presidency or not?? We must remember to stick to the houses that pertain to public life and their aspects. THese basic priinciples never change. IN fact retrograde planets in the 10th of public life may be a hindrance. Where do people get these ideas!!!

Yoi said:

Having retrogrades definitely does *not* preclude your friend from being governor one day or even President. *However*, at least (I say at least because this guy died before he finished his study but I don't know when he died - still at least 36 US Presidents have zero retrogrades) 85% of US presidents have no retrograde planets even though statistically speaking zero retrogrades only occur 7.7% of the time.

http://en.allexperts.com/q/Astrology-2205/Six-Retrogrades.htm

I don't think a similar study has been done on governors though I know Arnie (Governator) has zero retrogrades.

http://www.astrology-x-files.com/news/arnolds-eminence.html

You know, given this, maybe we should have a look at the number of retrogrades in the current presidential candidates' charts...Oh god, I looked at Clinton, Obama, Guilani, Romney, McCain and Huckabee and Huckabee is the only one with a retrograde planet free chart. Nooooooo.....! I just checked George W. Bush's chart, Bill Clinton's chart and they both have no natal retrograde planets either which just helps confirm the hypothesis I really really hope that this will be one of the off years where someone without the zero retrograde advantage wins such as George W. Bush's Dad who has 3 retrogrades. Not Huckabee as President You know looking through the previous US president's charts it does look like quite a few of them did have retrogrades - Bush Snr, Johnson, Nixon, Kennedy. I wonder how accurate that data above is...I guess, just ignore what I wrote above about retrogrades then

Click to expand...

Yes been down the wrong path....

Arian Maverick said:

I've heard about this strange "zero retrograde" phenomenon in a disproportionately large percentage of the U.S. presidents, yet does this apply to governors as well? I know that Arnold Schwarzenegger is currently the 38th governor of California, but obviously there have been a lot more governors than presidents or even presidential candidates, and perhaps with the exception of Arnold, generally governors aren't nearly as well-known outside of the state in which they serve.

Nevertheless, it might be interesting to gather a list of the governors of West Virginia and see if such a pattern emerged in this state, which is where I imagine freedomlover's friend wishes to serve.

EDIT: You've gotta love Wikipedia; look what I found!

List of Governors of West Virginia. Most of the governors have links to their own separate Wikipedia pages, and from my experiences, most of these pages contain the date of birth, so it should be relatively simple to detect a pattern if any exists.

Alright, here we go:

Arthur I. Boreman - born July 24, 1823 in Waynesburg, Pennsylvania

Number of Retrograde Planets: 3 (Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

Daniel D. T. Farnsworth - born December 23, 1819 in Staten Island, New York

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Mercury and Mars)

William E. Stevenson - born March 18, 1820 in Warren, Pennsylvania

No Retrograde Planets

John J. Jacob - born December 9, 1829 in Green Spring on the Potomac River north of Rommey in (Hampshire County)

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Saturn and Pluto)

Henry M. Mathews - born March 29, 1834 in Frankford, WV

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Mercury and Saturn)

Jacob B. Jackson - born April 6, 1829 in Parkersburg, WV

Number of Retrograde Planets: 1 (Jupiter)

Emanuel Willis Wilson - born on August 11, 1844 in Harpers Ferry, West Virginia in Jefferson County

Number of Retrograde Planets: 6 (Venus, Jupiter, Saturn, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

Aretas B. Fleming - born on October 15, 1839 in Fairmont in Marion County, West Virginia

Number of Retrograde Planets: 4 (Venus, Uranus, Neptune, and Pluto)

William A. MacCorkle - born on May 7, 1857 in Lexington, VA

Number of Retrograde Planets: 1 (Venus)

George W. Atkinson - born on June 29, 1845 in Charleston, WV

Number of Retrograde Planets: 2 (Saturn and Neptune)

Albert B. White - born on September 22, 1856 in Cleveland, OH
William M. O. Dawson - born on May 21, 1853 in Bloomington, MD
William E. Glasscock - born on December 13, 1862 in Glasscock was born in Monongalia County, West Virginia
Henry D. Hatfield - born on September 15, 1875 in Mate Creek, WV
John J. Cornwell - born on July 11, 1867 in Pennsboro, WV
Ephraim F. Morgan - born on January 16, 1869 in Forksburg, WV
Howard Mason Gore - born on October 12, 1887 in Harrison Co., WV
William G. Conley - born on January 8, 1866 in Kingwoodm Preston County, West Virginia
Herman G. Kump - born on October 31, 1877 in Capon Springs, WV
Homer A. Holt - born on March 1, 1898 in Lewisburg, WV
Matthew M. Neely - born on November 9, 1874 near Grove, Doddridge County, WV
Clarence W. Meadows - born on February 11, 1904 in Beckley, WV
Okey L. Patteson - born on September 14, 1898 in Dingess, Mingo County, WV
William C. Marland - born on March 26, 1918 in Johnson City, IL
Cecil H. Underwood - born on November 5, 1922 in Joseph's Mills, West Virginia
William Wallace Barron - born on December 8, 1911 in Elkins, WV
Hulett C. Smith - born on October 21, 1918 in Beckley, WV
Arch A. Moore, Jr. - born on April 16, 1923 in Moundsville, West Virginia
Jay Rockefeller - born on June 18, 1937 in New York, New York
Arch A. Moore, Jr. - born on April 16, 1923 in Moundsville, West Virginia
Gaston Caperton - born on February 21, 1940 in Charleston, WV
Cecil H. Underwood - born on November 5, 1922 in Joseph's Mills, West Virginia
Bob Wise - born on January 6, 1948 in Washington, D.C.
Joe Manchin - born on August 24, 1947 in Farmington, West Virginia

I'll try to finish this later, but my Aries stellium was getting a bit restless. But from this small sample, you'll see that only one of the early West Virgina governors has no retrograde planets, so this doesn't appear to be a pattern among them--yet.

Arian Maverick

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You know you are one of my favourites on this forum but I have to tell you that you have done a lot of work that really is not relevant with retrogrades. Dont bother going down this track any further is my advice.
It is not a valid premise........there are many scenarios for leadership and retrogrades may or may not be present. CHeers

Kannon said:

This chart - if it does not require much or any adjustment - belongs to someone who:

(1) Shows a Cardinal sign, Aries, on the Asc, which is most given to proactive leadership, and a Cardinal sign (Capricorn) on the MC, which reinforces it.
(2) Shows an interception of signs in the 6th-12th, indicating public service (charitable, humanitarian, medical, psychological, sociological, govt, etc).
(3) Shows Pluto opp Asc, indicative of the strong affect on people and strong push needed to do whatever it takes.
(4) Shows Mars (+Venus) sq Asc, indicative of a very forward-moving ambitious person (+charm, people skill).
(5) Shows a 1st house planet, Mercury, opp and 7th house planet, Uranus, creating further emphasis on communicating and connecting with others and the ability to display uniqueness or originality.

Furthermore:

-- Sun P Pluto
-- MC [23 S] in extreme declination
-- MC P Jupiter

There are more indicators, but these are enough to show that this chart, if it needs no serious adjustment, does in fact belong to someone capable of campaigning for and probably winning a public office like a Governorship. In fact, these are many of the same kinds of indicators that show up in the birth charts of those who become President of the US.

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Thank you so much for taking the time to reply to this, Kannon. I will say your description of him was very accurate. He does have a powerful one-on-one presence. He also is very focused on the environment, and plans to make that part of his platform. ( Pluto in Virgo on the DSC)

He has some work history with the military and government, and has won awards for his innovative ideas and efficiency. He is very forward-moving, and keeps his goal in sight, definitely.

I found those declinations you listed highly interesting, as well. With Pluto parallel his Sun, and Jupiter parallel his MC - it would seem he is destined to play a major role in the public eye/government, etc.

The birth time is off of his birth certificate, btw. I guess a good determination of how accurate the birth time is would be how the upcoming Jupiter/Uranus conjunction at 0' Aries,(smack on his Ascendant, opposing his DSC, and squaring his MC/IC) affects him. With all 4 angles being at 0' Cardinal, what kind of scenarios would one expect to see playing out here?

Claire19 said:

He does have strong oratory skills as per the 3rd house planets. His North node is in Capricorn in the 10th along with Jupiter. This indicates a public life and in politics. His Saturn is also trine Moon in 11th Aquarius and if he concentrated on humanitarian issues he would do well. He would do well handling the media and the press etc. He would be able to appeal to families and the general folk and have a sense of rapport.

His chart ruler Mars is in conjunction with Venus in the 3rd and again that shows charm and attractive speech with perhaps an appealing timbre of voice. His Taurus Sun would give him steadiness and a groundedness.

So yes I dont see why he cant aspire to governorship.

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Thank you very much for your comments, Claire19. You brought out some very accurate parts of his personality, as well. He is one of the best communicators I've ever met. He is both a gifted speaker and writer. He does have a very pleasant voice to listen to, and seems to enjoy any activity that involves him getting to speak and be the focus of attention. (Reciting poems, theatre, etc.)

He is from a small, rural town, and does relate well with "the general folk", and is quite humanitarian-minded, as well.

Do you have any comments about what kind of issues may come up in his life with the upcoming Jupiter/Uranus conjunction at 0' Aries? I can't imagine it NOT having a huge effect on him, since all 4 angles are 0' Cardinal signs.

freedomlover said:

Thank you very much for your comments, Claire19. You brought out some very accurate parts of his personality, as well. He is one of the best communicators I've ever met. He is both a gifted speaker and writer. He does have a very pleasant voice to listen to, and seems to enjoy any activity that involves him getting to speak and be the focus of attention. (Reciting poems, theatre, etc.)

He is from a small, rural town, and does relate well with "the general folk", and is quite humanitarian-minded, as well.

Do you have any comments about what kind of issues may come up in his life with the upcoming Jupiter/Uranus conjunction at 0' Aries? I can't imagine it NOT having a huge effect on him, since all 4 angles are 0' Cardinal signs.

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So his birth time being off didn't make a difference to the angle degrees? BTW, I have Aries rising and early cardinal on all 4 angles. My guess would be abrupt change in his relationships or possibly career. I don't know how solid he is in his career/marriage, assuming he is marriage, but that would be my first guess. Since the conjunction it's also sitting on his ASC, not that men worry so much about this but he will gain weight, and with Uranus there, he might want to make some changes in his appearance in some way. There would also be a feeling of wanting to break away from someone or something, and since it's affecting all three angles, it really could be any of the following, relationships, work, home, self.