John Frawley is stand up philosofer

Bulletbobb

Well-known member
Franco:
The data for the game in my post #1380 was for a hockey game.
I was just going to ask you about hockey, because the scores there can be higher than soccer. Also we have overtime in hockey, so there can be no ties. But for a method that requires a chart for the end of game it can be a problem. There way I see it, you'll win half by luck and loose half by luck.
I would very much like to see you analyze this chart, so I can see how your method works for a sport other than soccer.
BTW, here in the US there is a source for the exact start and end times of NFL, NHL and MLS (soccer) games. This is good for research, altho it doesn't help much when doing the games. NHL games are quite reliable in starting at 8 minutes ±1 minute after the nominal start time. Length is about 2:20, but it can vary.

Bob
 

miquar

Well-known member
Hi Banefranco. I'm still not clear which system of dignities you use - is it just the house dignities and debilities on the table you posted?
 

banefranco

Well-known member
I checked if my method works or not, so if it works when the best circumstances are, it works. We have odds for winner or draw and double chances, also the winner of the first third and for goals total more or less. So any problem in soccer, is in hockey. You get approx time of the game and calculate. If yoy do not know when exactly match starts and when approx it ends it is possible under best positioned rulers and houses. I do not have the time these days that is my suggestin that someone place the chart make the explanation and I will try to comment also. The system is the same only expirience. I have no better suggestion. I know about overtime but I have no odds so it does not exist for me. After all if you do not have parameters by expirience like 8 minutes more or less, you do not have important data. Anyway just use the same method, it works. If you cannot predict hockey today it will be tommorow under circumstances which you can predict. I do not force myself to predict matches everyday but that happens.
 

banefranco

Well-known member
Miquar I use Solar Fire gold and under Horary chart screen you have the Ptolemy's table for essential dignities, for accidental dignities you have Lilly's table presented here or you can find something like this:

http://www.skyscript.co.uk/dig5.html

I do not use ess digs from that table, I do not use PARTILE, no FIXED stars, I entered in that table my value (-5) for the planet's when passing through Via Combusta. That is all. But values are not definite condition of the rulers it vary as the match goes.
 

banefranco

Well-known member
If you use modern planetary rulership and calculate by using values from the table you will constantly miss. No modern rulerships traditional only.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Shrewsbury are at home to Crawley tonight and Shrewsbury will be in the darker kit. Ascendant for beginning of game is very early in Libra so no change during match (19:45 UT kick off). Venus in 7th throughout match.

For what it's worth, POF is separating from a square to Venus at the start (2 degrees from exact.)

Using Regiomontanus houses Mars moves into the 11th during (correction: 10 minutes before) half time at about 20:20 UT.

Ptolemy essential dignities are Venus 0 and Mars -5 at start and finish (am I right in assuming that these don't take the house placement into account then?)

Accidental debilities: Mars gets -5 for retrograde and another -5 for twelfth house = -10, changing to -1 when Mars moves into the 11th house during half time.
Venus gets -5 for detriment and +4 for 7th house (although this is the house of Shrewsbury so perhaps this should be discounted?)

Saturn moves into the first house at the same time that Mars moves into the 11th. So perhaps it looks as thought Shrewsbury can win if they can keep level until half time (correction 20:20)?

Moon approaching a trine to Mars during the game, which becomes exact just over half an hour after final whistle.

Not sure which of these factors is more significant than others, though??
 
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miquar

Well-known member
Each team now 2-1 to win, but seems to be going Shrewsbury's way astrologically speaking. POF in 10th house.

Ascendant goes via combusta at 21:10, about 20 or so minutes before the end.
 

banefranco

Well-known member
My windows crashed so I have to recover astro files and will anwer. BTW both dignities are separated values and you have to compare them separately. If ess digs for one team higher and acc digs lower or ess digs lower acc dugs higher also if ASC is home team or ASC is AWAY team. There are combinations and that is called ranges. It is not so simple
 

banefranco

Well-known member
I am still reparing system but BTW Saturn presence in the houses 1 or 7 means that team will score 1 or no goal but that usually happens not always but really mostly.
One more thing it happens like this: first you have aspect and then after usually two minutes goal so aspect happens first.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Thanks Banefranco. So how does whether the Asc is home or away team affect things?

In the match I mentioned above, Shrewsbury did score again and win 2-1. They were the hoe team and on the descendant due to darker shirts. Perhaps if you have time you could look at the reasoning I used in the above posts to favour Shrewsbury and tell me whether I followed the rules properly or just got lucky.

Jupiter moved into the 7th house 10 minutes before Shrewsbury scored. Don't know if this made their scoring more likely? And the first house team did indeed score zero goals after Saturn moved into the first, as you mention is often the case.

Am I right in thinking that the Ptolemy essential dignities don't use houses?
 

miquar

Well-known member
In terms of the first half goals, Crawley scored while Mars was in 12th, then Shrewsbury scored just after it moved into 11th, so it seems that the goal relevant to the house shift did occur after the shift.
 

banefranco

Well-known member
About goals or yellow cards - I have written that aspect is about 2 minutes before the goal or yellow card or penalty.If goal happens 4 minutes that aspect does not explains the goal, something else.
 

banefranco

Well-known member
About goals or yellow cards - I have written that aspect is about 2 minutes before the goal or yellow card or penalty.If goal happens 4 minutes that aspect does not explains the goal, something else.
 

miquar

Well-known member
Sure. I'm just interested in which of the factors I took into account on the above posts you feel are important and which weren't.
 

banefranco

Well-known member
There are:
Essential dignity
Acccidental dignity
Compartment gives the winner or as you coud find ''who will not lose''
It depends on compartment.
That is all in ''clear'' charts.
In less complicated charts
Both dignities, POF aspect to ASC or DSC cusp inside the houses not outside (distance two degrees most). Pof and Moon when aspect rulers indicates goals or when changing houses, for one side, not the winner but they are sort of additional information.
POF - Moon aspects also show goals not the winner but when there are no aspects for goals they can show who will not lose.
But in all cases dignities are the essential information, no other event in chart can show.
In more complicated charts you take care about the time one ruler does not change values in dignities but this is far from clear prediction.
So Dignities, dignities, dignities.
No information for DRAW.
Well my idea is to exclude personal influence in making prediction. There must be indicators anybody can read.
So indicator for ess dig is located in Solar fire program I do not have to calculate and it is exact information. Acc dig for now must be calculated manually unless some program does so.
I try to use as many informations already prepared not to try to invent ''hot water'' at any cost.
That is why I suggest Solar Fire. Becouse all informations are at the screen I do not have to waste the time.
Good software makes this simple when it is simple but easy when it is complicated.
Even when I need help in predicting any chart I look back for one day as it was wise to compare the charts from yesterday and today.
This is also astrology becouse that means that we understood that astrology is exact science with exact rules that do not change from time to time.
Ok some less interesting informations:
Partile is exact contact so as we are interested only in applayng contacts we have to have ultimately Partile event.
Also Partile is for static chart, any sports match is not static event.
Fixed stars are involved in one sports match with the part of time they are involved. When you know that they move one degree per 72 years it is easy how usefull information is about fixed stars positions. And what about contact fixed star and slow planet?
Planet's speed: Where is the value for stacionary planet. As it is for fast and slow condition? Nowhere. That is sort of something what is missing to tables. Why it misses? Becouse old astrologers did not noticed or avoided. The must be sort of big courage and to change some things whic are needed to be chaged.
I calculate that condition of one planet as I do not give plus points neither minus points. Simply planet does not get any value for speed. But nobody have ever written that explanation. It does make sense.
But let us get back to complicated charts. If one chart seems to me complicated I use simple method. I avoid it. If not I look at yesterday charts and outcomes I avoided already. Often I got quick information abot the result. After respected number of calculated charts you will now at the moment what will happen.
Important informations for me to predict are at first: Symbols that are used by the teams, the kick of time and how any match can lasts. Without that I do not know what to predict. I explained that at superbowl forum.
Houses 4 and 10. Well I will explain the other way. Do you care for winner or you are dying in the beauty of the game? I do care about the winner.:)
 
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