The Vertex.

Draco

Well-known member
Hi all,

I was wondering if anyone could help me shed a little light upon understanding the placement of the Vertex in the natal chart. I know little about this point in a chart, and I wonder if anyone could share their ideas about the Vertex with me, and what it represents.

I am intrigued, because I notice that I have the Vertex in conjunction with my Sun @ 22:31 Virgo, the Vertex being at 23:54 (7th). Do any of you have any ideas as to what this may mean for me? Also, what do you feel that the placement of the Vertex means for you in your own chart, and is your vertex conjunct your Sun or other planet?

Is the conjunction of my Sun with Vertex fortuitous, and if so how may I best utilise it's potential?

Thanks for your insights people.

Draco :wink:
 

Mia

Well-known member
The Vertex

Hi Draco

I have heard that the Vertex is a very fated point in the chart so perhaps it being conjunct your sun, suggests that your life will be a very fated one. I have noticed that some people DO appear to have more fated lives than others.
For myself, I was discussing the fate/freewill question with someone quite recently and he was of the mind that there is no such thing as fate and we create it all ourselves. I went on to discuss a time when I had transiting Pluto opposing my Venus and the fact that it would be difficult to escape that little combination without experiencing something! (which I did, it brought a very difficult but profound relationship experience into my life)) It turned out that Pluto was also conjunct my Vertex during the transit too so perhaps it had 'double whammy' fatedness! Just for the record, my Vertex is at 15 degrees Sagittarius in my fifth house.

Mia
 

C1

Well-known member
:shock:

Electrical angle vertex....nice discussion on the other forum,
and lovely articles. Thanks, AM, for the links,
which are v e r y interesting.

C1
 

Draco

Well-known member
Thanks Mia and AM for your responses,

Mia,

It is interesting that you would consider that my Vx conjunct my Sun would make my life more 'fated' in a general sense. I'm not sure what I make of this. I suppose it depends upon what a person's definition of fate is.

If is does mean that my life is more fated, I would find this quite worrying, as surely this would mean that I have less capacity for free-will in my existence. :(

The way I see it, fate is that which we cannot change and have no choice about in life. Examples of this would be, the sex we are born, our parents and family, our class, physicality, intelligence and genetic inheritance and so on.

Therefore, we all have fate - there is no more or less about it.

At the other end of the scale we have destiny, which I would interpret to be defined as the best we can possibly make of our lives given our unalterable fate. We can achieve our destiny with varying degrees of success, depending upon how we have used free-will to play the best game we can with the hand of cards we have been dealt, which is our fate.

The fate we find ourselve's with in this life is purely dependent upon what we made of our destiny in the prior existence - whatever or wherever that was.

The greater destiny we attain in this existence according to the fate which we prescribed ourselves due to the way we utilised free-will last time, will determine the quality of the fate we have to work with next time round.

Basically, I am on about karma I suppose.

This is an easy concept to imagine, but a little difficult to describe. I hope I 'm making sense. :?

I find it difficult to just slap the basic meaning of 'fate' upon the Vx, as the way I see it, I consider the South and North nodes to be the 'axis of fate and destiny'.

That is to say, the South node is the place of fate, it is where we have already been, what we already have to work with, and that which is unalterable, our raw materials with which to fashion our lives for better or worse. So for me, the Vx can't just usurp this position, although I'm prepared to accept it may compliment it.

The North node is the place of destiny, telling us where to direct our free-will in order to capitalise upon and make the best of our given fate. This would be why the North node is always given greater attention than the South, after all, where we are going is surely more important than what we already have and where we have already been.

Perhaps you are right to say that the Vx conjunct my Sun has something to do with my fate, but why and in what way in particular? Why would the Vx not be 'destiny' instead of 'fate'? After all, it is the positive polarity to the anti-vertex, and therefore more forward going. As such would Vx not compliment the NN in some respect, and the anti Vx the SN?

AM,

Thankyou for the link. There is a lot to read there and I haven't got through it all yet, but it is good food for thought and interesting to see what others are thinking about this intriguing aspect of a chart.

The post to Mia is to you as well, and I wonder what you or any other reader thinks about this.

In the mean time, does anyone have any alternative ideas as to what the Vx conjunct the Sun may mean?

Cheers,

Draco :wink:
 

AquariusMoon

Well-known member
Draco said:
Hi all,

I notice that I have the Vertex in conjunction with my Sun @ 22:31 Virgo, the Vertex being at 23:54 (7th). Do any of you have any ideas as to what this may mean for me? Also, what do you feel that the placement of the Vertex means for you in your own chart, and is your vertex conjunct your Sun or other planet?

Is the conjunction of my Sun with Vertex fortuitous, and if so how may I best utilise it's potential?

Thanks for your insights people.

Draco :wink:

Draco ~

Yes, I guess you could say the Sun cj your Vx is fortuitous. Your cj is in H7, so it relates to your partners/partnerships. This is very magnetic. When the Vx is activated you could become very magnetically attracted to someone. If a partner cj's your Vx in synastry you'll no doubt have a very strong attraction to that person. It doesn't mean the relationship will last forever, but it's a cool thing to experience. Watch for aspects to your Vx, esp the opposition. Has tr Uranus opposed it yet? You should see some action there. See what asteroids and transneptunians, if any, also aspect it. With Sun cj Vx the emphasis is on men, creativity, individuality. I would say retaining your individuality in a relationship would be important for you.

My H8 Vx cj's Uranus in Cancer. This gives me some otherworldly experiences, is supposed to be an indication of an astrologer lol. When a transiting planet cj's it, it can give me an unusual experience out of the blue or I could have an important relationship. It will work along with the other transits that are going on. Saturn cj'd it last year. Nothing worth noting happened. When my chart ruler cj'd it, I had an intense 2-yr relationship.
 

Mia

Well-known member
Vertex

:) Hello Draco
I did not mean to imply anything negative by my comments and I'm no expert! I suppose I was perhaps talking about what you refer to as 'destiny' when I talked about some people's lives being more 'fated' and again, I in no way was talking about wholly negative experiences here.

For instance, someone I know, has rocketed from a very lowly to a very high position in his career and even he is astounded at the advances he has made. He talks about the 'little' things that happened on the way which he was quite blase about at the time but which were evidently things that where crucial to him being where he is. Yes, he works hard and he's very good at what he does but then as he says, others work just as hard and have very difficult jobs. He has no formal qualifications and it's as if an invisible hand has guided him, - like the pieces of a jigsaw clicking into place at the 'right' times in his life. I think he quite amusedly at times thinks 'how did this all happen?' and of course he's very happy it did because he has a wonderful lifestyle and he's kind and looks after his family too.

I'm talking about one of my sons so I have watched this happen and it is indeed as if an invisible hand is guiding us sometimes.This is what I meant Draco, in fact I was thinking about it in a positive way, you know the lucky breaks we get sometimes that push us and guide us into situations which at first may not seem very positive but the ones we can look back on and say, 'now I know why that happened!' and another piece of the jigsaw has slotted into place. When I said that some people's lives are more fated than others, perhaps what I meant was that some of us are more aware of destiny/fate in our lives than others. I hope this explains a bit more.

Take care
Mia
 

Belgianmoonguy

Well-known member
Re: Vertex

SameeSadiq said:
What is the meaning of Vertex conjunct Uranus in synastry. Can I get synastry aspects for Vertex from somewhere?

May be meetings with 'fated' ones will happen in an Uranian way, very accidental and in unpredictable ways, or may be you'll meet Uranian ppl, rebels, ppl who are schoking, unconventional, ppl who break taboos and live on the edge, you could be very attracted to them...

Off course there are lots of other interpretations possible
 

Lissa

Well-known member
Really nice thread!:)

Decided to joint the discussion because I find the Vertex one of the most interesting points.In my chart,it's the only unaspected object I have(OK,it makes a4ºtrine with Mercury but I think the orb used for the Vertex is tighter).My Vertex is in Leo and falls near the 8th house cusp.I personally believe in the theory that says that unaspected objects are the strongest because the planet/object simply does it wants almost without interference from the rest of the chart.Being the Vertex so connected to fate and falling in such a mystical house,I would expect my life to be full of powerful,fated events,yet I feel like Fate forgot I existed and left me here alone drawing my own path(which is nice because I like the idea of free-will:) ).Well,now that I started getting deeper in metaphysical subjects,I'll just wait to see if my Vertex has something in store for me:) .

SameeSadiq,I don't know if you're talking about your Vertex and someone else's Uranus or the opposite but Uranus moves too slow,everyone born on the same year as your romantic interest would probably also have their Uranus conjunct your Vertex.Interactions between the Vertex and the personal planets or the Sun/Moon midpoint are considered more powerful,I believe.

Best wishes,
Lissa
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
Here are some of my observations about the Vertex

a) It is a geometrical point, like the nodes, and not a planet, so it is inherently symbolic, and people associate it with the nodes.

b) It can only fall in houses 5-8 so is considered by most to be about relationships as these are the relational houses.

c) It tends to little significance in the natal chart and only seems active in synastry, composites and horary.

From these observations I tend to think of the Vertex as giving a very tiny hint at how the the individual relates to other people- to me it gives that extra bit of strength to the interpretation of the house its in, which coupled with Venus, the 7th house and other planets in the area can be worked into an overal interpretation.

Vertex in aspect in a natal chart only serves to strengthen the planet in question. (With tighter orbs.) But not by much. When seen as a fated point, it must act more like Saturn, as, Draco said, the fate can be seen as limiting to the will or mode of expression (Mars and Sun.) However fate is a very vague concept, and before I get bogged down discussing the natal chart, I find the Vertex more significant in chart comparison. First however, I'll discuss how fate may work in a relationship.

As fate is a vague concept, one can think of it as events that were fixed from the very beginning. However the nature of those events may be infinitely variable. For instance my mother always told me that what we ate was fated from the very beginning, and would aways comment at how a day would end quite randomly with us eating at some rather distant relative or friend's house. That we were to eat there was always fated in her eyes, but the manner in which we ended up there was something she never considered.

I may be fated to meet X as we have the required synastry together, but that does not dictate in what circumstances I meet X, or how I cope with it. If I am fated to be at a certain place at a certain time to see a certain person, it has no bearing on how successful I am when I am there (I may be dressed in rags, I may be dressed in kashmir) and has no bearings on what I may do to X- (how else do relationships end up so badly :p )

Going back to the Vertex- I believe it shows a predisposition to the types of energies when it comes up in synastry to the personal planets of another. Yet this predisposition is a vague one, it is up to the individual to study the energies between him or herself and the partner, to see how the planetary energy manifests. The energy may be unavoidable when the Vertex acts as in a Saturnian manner, but its manifestation may be entirely dependant upon how the two people act. Each planet may be positively expressed blah blah, and some people may find it harder to positively express a planet than others in the natal chart blah.

In my personal experience, I've found strong Vertex aspects to Venus in the first few people I ever liked. Since then however, the Vertex has been less significant in all synastry- so maybe I dealt with my Vertex issues, or was more susceptible to 'fate' when I was younger?
 

Neptune Rising

Well-known member
The_Sundance_Kid said:
Going back to the Vertex- I believe it shows a predisposition to the types of energies when it comes up in synastry to the personal planets of another. Yet this predisposition is a vague one, it is up to the individual to study the energies between him or herself and the partner, to see how the planetary energy manifests.

In my personal experience, I've found strong Vertex aspects to Venus in the first few people I ever liked. Since then however, the Vertex has been less significant in all synastry- so maybe I dealt with my Vertex issues, or was more susceptible to 'fate' when I was younger?

I found these very interesting views Sundance_Kid, thank you,

I've know a friend for seven or more years his Moon conjunct his vertex in Pisces, my Jupiter and Ceres conjunct those. He will do all he can to help someone in need and is quite often taken advanage of. Maybe with my Jupiter/Ceres, I am always there for him, unconditionally, I would never hesitate to help him in any way.

Another guy I know, his Sun conjuncts my vertex, he has made a real impact on my life, our relationship seems incredibly fated although I have no idea where its headed.

I agree, it is up to time and for the individual to see how the energies play out, like a life long experiment, but thats part of the fun of life! :)

Neptune
 

astro.teacher

Well-known member
After reading Sundances excellent post on the Vertex, I couldnt help but see a lot of reference to the word "fated" (as with a lot of other Modern Astrological bodies or points claiming the same term) and I couldnt help but ask, isnt the whole point of Astrology to describe fated events in our life? Doesnt every Natal chart show the fated complexion of the Native? Since we are born under our chart there is no possibility of us choosing the planets and their placements in our charts. Dont Predictive Charts show the fated paths we will take? Some may bring up the issue of free will but technically, when we are ignorant of our inclinations (which are bestowed by Astrology), we are fated-slaves to them and to our Astrology. But anyway, I just thought it was interesting to see the term "fated" used a lot for interpretion of these modern points, when in reality every chart is fated. Im also curious of others opinions on this?
 
Thanks for all the responses.
Lissa, it is,
My vertex conjunct her Uranus.
Also,
My vertex novile her Venus - orb 1 degree 09'.
My vertex semisquare her mars - orb 1 degree 32'.
My vertex novile her Neptune - orb 0 degree 00'.
My Sun/Mars = her Vertex
My Sun/Pluto = her Vertex

Her vertex novile my Sun - orb 1 degree 51'
Her vertex trine my true nodes - orb 1 degree 02'.
There are I think, some more minor aspects. I hope choosing the right orbs. Any insight?
 
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The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
Hi Aaron- I agree completely with what you say about fate, which is why I described it as a vague term- I guess another example of my Mercury Rx being awful at communication!

It is for this reason that I see the Vertex as another aspect to be taken into account in a similar way to one describing the DC. It all connects to the question of determinism vs free will, questions I have few answers to.
 

The_Sundance_Kid

Well-known member
Samee Sadiq

I rarely use the minor aspects and as such all I see is Vertex conjunct her Uranus. As such I think your Vertex must conjunct alot of Uranus's in the world, and unless she is more than a few years older or younger than you, I think this aspect says more about you than it does about her or your relationship with her. Think of it as facing issues with freedom, independance, limitations or of multiple relationships within yourself.
 
Thanks for your remarks The Sundance Kid.

Here is another aspect. Her vertex (29 degree Scorpio) conjunct my descendent (3 degree Saggittarius). I missed out this conjunction due to them being in different signs. This conjunction should mean something though they are in different signs.

Then, there is my sun/pluto midpoint conjunct her vertex within 1 degree.

Using asteroids.
My Sappho & DNA are both conjunct her vertex within 1 degree.

Any comments?
 
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Sanura

Member
Hi There Everyone Newby here.

Not Sure if I am correct or not but once upon a time my Astrology teacher told me that the Vertex was a point that brings "Fated" people into your life. The degree of the vertex (Would require correct birthtime) indicated the dates 7 days either side that the degree falls within. So maybe looking at it like that if your sun is conjunct the vertex you may meet people who have strong ego's or Virgoan type people that change your life. The date range would be about 16th September and the days either side.......So maybe if you think about people who have come into your life who have these birth dates????? 7th house can be relationships or people you deal with on a one on one......

I know it worked with mine as I have a few people that I have met through 8th house issues Business people and Capricorns...... Vertex is 18 Cap opposing my Sun @ 9 Cancer. I have met 3 people with dates around this time and they were certainly fated when I look at how they changed my life through control issues and the 8th house (And not just thiers). My mother is Scorpio and has her vertex at the same degree....can't get more fated than that. lol

In talking about Fate I don't see it as something that makes an event happen and you have no choice. My understanding of fate is a crossroad you are presented with and due to the choices you have made in this life you will be presented with opportunities.....The fate part is the choice your soul makes, not the path you feel that is trying to make you go in a direction your soul doesn't want to go. Most people will fight this kind of decision and go the opposite...is this the fate bit??????......That you are "Fated" to go in the opposite direction to what is being presented to you. Your soul knows the path, it will do what it has to to get you through this life intact.

Anyway it is something to research.........

Cheers

Sanura
 

Sierra

Active member
Hello - I'm enjoying this topic and would like to know of anyones thoughts regarding a synastry overlay. I'm very interested in someone who has her cancer mercury exactly conjunct psyche and they make an exact conjunction with my vertex in the eighth.

Her vertex in pisces makes an exact conjunction to my IC.

Additionally I'm noting a sign interchange here. Meaning, my sun in pisces and her vtx. in pisces...and ...her sun in cancer and my vtx. in cancer.

Any thoughts are appreciated.:)
 
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