Rectification Tips - Verifying Ascendant/Descendant/MC/IC angles

[byjove]

Indeed! For any of us on a research hunt on an issue here knows the value of stories laid out in a thread like this, I hope the breadth of experiences here comes in use to others!

[Knight]

ok, i see a lot of discussions and a lot of theory that "we need to see IC/MC aspects and their lords aspects,etc..." but what is a concrete set of aspects that would suggest important events in the life ?

Example:
birth of a child = say... 5th house cusp to be exactly conjunct with transiting moon or sun...
marriage (in the curch) = say... DC lord conjunct sun...
divorce = say...DC lord square venus or mars depending...

From your experience what are the obvious examples for such events ?
I know for me:
exact date and time of first hiring
exact date and time of wedding to officer
exact date and time of wedding in church (different that the previous)
exact date and time of birth for my child
and when i put them on natal chart, there are no exact orbs to, no notable aspects to IC/DC or AC/DC lords...
My mother and father, they have a range of 5 mins for my birth time that I can live with

Still, for my own satisfaction I would like to check the correctness of the birth time...

[Alice McDermott]

Originally Posted by Knight

ok, i see a lot of discussions and a lot of theory that "we need to see IC/MC aspects and their lords aspects,etc..." but what is a concrete set of aspects that would suggest important events in the life ?

Example:
birth of a child = say... 5th house cusp to be exactly conjunct with transiting moon or sun...
marriage (in the curch) = say... DC lord conjunct sun...
divorce = say...DC lord square venus or mars depending...

From your experience what are the obvious examples for such events ?
I know for me:
exact date and time of first hiring
exact date and time of wedding to officer
exact date and time of wedding in church (different that the previous)
exact date and time of birth for my child
and when i put them on natal chart, there are no exact orbs to, no notable aspects to IC/DC or AC/DC lords...
My mother and father, they have a range of 5 mins for my birth time that I can live with

Still, for my own satisfaction I would like to check the correctness of the birth time...

if you have the correct house system for you, house cusps are very responsive to relevant events. However, it is not always through transits.

Day Age Harmonics are the very best method I have found to date to get an exact time of birth as planets and/or angles in the harmonic chart will always trigger within a degree the relevant planet and/or house cusp. I have described what they are and how to use them here: http://aliceportman.com/daily-age-harmonics/

The relevant Primary and/or secondary and/or tertiary progressions and/or solar arc directions will be usually active and often triggered by a transit.

Oftent the date of marriage evolves from the date you first met or got together with your partner so don't overlook those charts.

And you are quite correct that the angles are not always triggered in important events; I have tested out this idea with the Jigsaw program, using event dates for recorded birth times and it has not often given the correct Ascendant and MC. The main triggers are the relevant planets and/or house cusps. For example, the main indications of a long journey would be the activation of the 9th house cusp and/or planets in the 9th and/or the ruler of the 9th; as the Ascendant is connected to the physical body and environment, there would also be a trigger to this point, but I would expect the 9th house to be the main describer of these kinds of events.

The Polaris rectification program created by Isaac Starkman allows for this in its assessments, though, from my point of view, it is handicaped by only using the Topocentric house system.

Alice

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by Knight

ok, i see a lot of discussions and a lot of theory that "we need to see IC/MC aspects and their lords aspects,etc..." but what is a concrete set of aspects that would suggest important events in the life ?

Example:
birth of a child = say... 5th house cusp to be exactly conjunct with transiting moon or sun...
marriage (in the curch) = say... DC lord conjunct sun...
divorce = say...DC lord square venus or mars depending...

From your experience what are the obvious examples for such events ?
I know for me:
exact date and time of first hiring
exact date and time of wedding to officer
exact date and time of wedding in church (different that the previous)
exact date and time of birth for my child
and when i put them on natal chart, there are no exact orbs to, no notable aspects to IC/DC or AC/DC lords...
My mother and father, they have a range of 5 mins for my birth time that I can live with

Still, for my own satisfaction I would like to check the correctness of the birth time...

Hi Knight

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

During a wedding, particularly at the time the vows are spoken,


(a) the Ascendant Ruler and the Ruler of Cusp Seven must connect to the Natal Horizon DESC/ASC axis because that is what a wedding is, astrologically!

(b) On the wedding day - Sun, Moon, Venus and Mars must also connect to the Natal Horizon DESC/ASC axis

Why?

Venus and Mars must connect in order to symbolise the 'Archetypal Lovers'

Sun and Moon must connect in order to symbolise the 'Domestic Couple' – now united and involved in 'house-keeping', child-bearing, child rearing


Some of the ways the ASC/DESC rulers may connect to the Natal Horizon:


(1) Trine, sextile, square, opposition, conjunction

(2) Any ASC/DESC ruler conjunct the MC is considered to connect to the local horizon via the MC/IC AXIS

(3) I have noticed from my own personal observation, that the Midpoints of the transiting ASC/DESC rulers of the wedding date, frequently connect to the Natal Horizon.


A much older astrological friend (who has since died) told me they learned the technique to verify an ascendant while a student decades ago - they never asked for payment for the information: I continue to pass the method on freely to others so that anyone may test it for themselves.

If it does not work for you then check out another method – there are plenty!

[JUPITERASC]

Trutine of Hermes is another useful rectification technique - here's a brief description of the concept, and then a link to a pdf with a worked example

There's more info online and a book was published many years ago on the subject http://www.amazon.com/The-Prenatal-E.../dp/1933303247

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

An astrological technique from antiquity generally known as the Prenatal Epoch

'....Ascendant, or its opposite, at birth, is Moon's position at conception.


....Known as "Trutine of Hermes," from Hermes Trismegistus who stated the law as follows:

"The place of the Moon at conception becomes the birth ascendant or its opposite point."


"But this proved to be but one-half of a very important law, for while the...

Ascendant at birth was the place of the Moon at a certain Epoch, the Ascendant or its opposite point at this Epoch was the place of the Moon at birth

....a very remarkable interchange of factors." E.H. Bailey.


This idea is so well known that astrology software such as Solar Fire allows the user to calculate their prenatal Epoch. The idea of the prenatal Epoch is also useful in chart rectification

– details viewable at http://www.darrelyngunzburg.com/PDFs/PreNatalEpoch.pdf

[Alice McDermott]

Originally Posted by JUPITERASC

Trutine of Hermes is another useful rectification technique - here's a brief description of the concept, and then a link to a pdf with a worked example

There's more info online and a book was published many years ago on the subject http://www.amazon.com/The-Prenatal-E.../dp/1933303247

This is a wonderful system with which I have extensively worked for many years. However, it will only work if the birth is natural. Any medical assistance that interferes with the natural flow of conception to birth disrupts this system, so things like induction and C-section will not produce accurate results and forceps delivery will often bring the first breath some minutes earlier than nature intended. Pain killers will sometimes speed up or slow down the birth to some degree, but the pre-natal epoch can still be a fairly accurate tool in these cases.

Alice

[sonia1983]

Hye ,Is there anyone who can help me in birth time rectification?
I have two time of births and I am really confused which one is mine?
this chart is with 12:45 pm birth time and the other one is 1.30 pm.

some events of my life.


2008 april break up.my b.f left me
28th dec 2008 had minor surgery of right breast .
31st dec 2011 exchange of first mail to my ex b.f .we became g.f/b.f later on.
11 oct 2012 ,got a shock.my b.f ditched me.and saw his marriage /engagement pictures on 11th oct 2012.
2011 august got thyroid issue.
latest hiring on 19th oct 2011 till present.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by sonia1983

Hye ,Is there anyone who can help me in birth time rectification?
I have two time of births and I am really confused which one is mine?
this chart is with 12:45 pm birth time and the other one is 1.30 pm

Could you provide the reason why at this stage you have two birth times with a three quarter of an hour time difference between the two charts i.e. confirmation required as to whether these are medical records OR memories of the event from family members OR possibly a combination of both

ALSO you have not attached your natal chart - if you would like to, it would be helpful if you attach two natal chart, one for each of the times you have given

Originally Posted by sonia1983

some events of my life.
2008 april break up.my b.f left me
28th dec 2008 had minor surgery of right breast .
31st dec 2011 exchange of first mail to my ex b.f .we became g.f/b.f later on.
11 oct 2012 ,got a shock.my b.f ditched me.and saw his marriage /engagement pictures on 11th oct 2012.
2011 august got thyroid issue.
latest hiring on 19th oct 2011 till present.

Time is important sonia 1983

(1)so in 2008 you need to have the DAY as well as the TIME ON THAT DAY that you realised your bf left
(2) 28 December 2011 TIME that minor surgery commenced is important
(3) time of the email of 31 Dec 2011
(4) TIME on 11 Oct 2012 that you saw marriage/engagement pictures and/or TIME bf ditched
(5) DAY as well as TIME medics told you of thyroid issue. If it was a letter what day/time was it written/received


Rectification is a complex process so the hour as well as the day, month and year simplifies - even then its not easy - there are reliable experts who can do it such as http://www.martingansten.com/btr.php Notice that Martin Gansten, a well known professional expert on rectification requests at least 10 major events. So if you have any dates of for example events such as Graduation, Day you began first employment that would be useful.

In the meantime, as someone who does NOT claim to be an expert, I shall do my best to be of use

[sonia1983]

Thank you for replying back.one of my friend who is learning astrology told me that my 2 t.o.b's show difference in marital matters.if my t.o.b is 12.45pm then,it shows a divorce aspect after marriage and according to 1.30 pm ,I have smooth married life.I am anxious to know about correct t.o.b.my mother told me 1.30 pm as exact where as my grand mother told me 12.45 p.m

kindly,help me birth time rectification.

my past events.

recent employment:19 oct 2011 was the joining date at 7.40 A.m.

I got thyroid report on 5 aug 2011 at 8.20 p.m

I saw my ex b.f engagement/marriage pictures on 11 oct 2012 at 9.45 P.m


minor surgery of right breast :I was called in the operation theater at 10 A.m where I also waited for a little time and finally I was out of operation theater at 1.00 p.m.and date was 28 dec 2008.




I

[sonia1983]

and other chart with other timings.

[sonia1983]

here is other chart

[ThisIsMe]

How could one find a birth time for a celebrity that is currently unknown? I'm curious because of this site Astrotheme.com has tons of celebs and some have birth times and some don't.

How do they find the time, you think?

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by ThisIsMe

How could one find a birth time for a celebrity that is currently unknown? I'm curious because of this site Astrotheme.com has tons of celebs and some have birth times and some don't.

How do they find the time, you think?

Reading the original post at the beginning of the thread highlights many basic methods of rectification

Some celebrities have their time of birth detailed on their birth certificate - but not all do

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by sonia1983

Thank you for replying back.one of my friend who is learning astrology told me that my 2 t.o.b's show difference in marital matters.if my t.o.b is 12.45pm then,it shows a divorce aspect after marriage and according to 1.30 pm ,I have smooth married life.I am anxious to know about correct t.o.b.my mother told me 1.30 pm as exact where as my grand mother told me 12.45 p.m

kindly,help me birth time rectification.
my past events.
recent employment:19 oct 2011 was the joining date at 7.40 A.m.
I got thyroid report on 5 aug 2011 at 8.20 p.m
I saw my ex b.f engagement/marriage pictures on 11 oct 2012 at 9.45 P.m
minor surgery of right breast :I was called in the operation theater at 10 A.m where I also waited for a little time and finally I was out of operation theater at 1.00 p.m.and date was 28 dec 2008.
I

"On The Spot Rectification" guide http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2p9qt1DVBzk

'...For state of the art rectification manual check out "A Rectification Manual: The American Presidency http://regulus-astrology.com/presidency.html the first synthesis of medieval astrology’s predictive techniques applied to natal chart rectification. For too many years, an incomplete predictive model has hampered efforts by astrologers to compute an accurate birth time. With no consensus on rectification methods, rectified birth times are commonly held in such disrepute they rank on par with dirty data, as defined by Astrodatabank, a leading astrology database vendor.....'

'....With the recovery of medieval predictive techniques, the era of disenchantment over rectification is now over. Not just Transits, Progressions, and Solar Arcs; but Fidaria, Directing by Triplicity, the Moon’s aspects, Directing through the Bounds, Primary Directions, Profections, and Solar Return aspects to natal Arabic Parts fill out a complete predictive toolbox. For the first time, proper attribution between life events and corresponding predictive methods is now possible; making accurate rectification an achievable feat.....'

[JUPITERASC]

btw, remember that detailed instructions on precisely how to calculate the pre-natal Epoch Rectification Method may be viewed FOR FREE at http://www.rosicrucian.com/zineen/pamen034.htm

[byjove]

Hi, I've been waiting for transiting Mars to approach my MC for minor fine-tuning of birth time. Today TR Mars should be exactly conjunct my MC. However, yesterday I had mini-arguments with people (including a parent and brother) though they know I've been very tense and it's not personal.

Is it too early to consider an MC one degree earlier or is it perhaps fine as it is? I note that Mercury is one degree before my natal MC which could lead to arguments too. The last few days I built up seething anger and frustration, from at least last Thursday 7th until today. I have a natal and transit chart attached.

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by byjove

Hi, I've been waiting for transiting Mars to approach my MC for minor fine-tuning of birth time. Today TR Mars should be exactly conjunct my MC. However, yesterday I had mini-arguments with people (including a parent and brother) though they know I've been very tense and it's not personal.

Is it too early to consider an MC one degree earlier or is it perhaps fine as it is? I note that Mercury is one degree before my natal MC which could lead to arguments too. The last few days I built up seething anger and frustration, from at least last Thursday 7th until today. I have a natal and transit chart attached.

Keep noting transits and experimenting with fine-tuning by a degree of so because you can always re-assess as you obtain more data

Moon is often a timer and transiting Moon may have triggered Mars several times - including via Jupiter

- that's because Mars is transiting the natural home aka domicile of Jupiter while Jupiter is transiting your natal 11th house of friends

- the chart you have posted shows transiting Moon trine transiting Jupiter

[JUPITERASC]

Originally Posted by byjove

....I note that Mercury is one degree before my natal MC which could lead to arguments too. The last few days I built up seething anger and frustration, from at least last Thursday 7th until today. I have a natal and transit chart attached.

Mars transiting by conjunction with natal Mercury potentially indicates events connected with the houses ruled by Mercury and Mars in natal chart
i.e. Gemini, Virgo, Aries, Scorpio and Capricorn houses. Include Capricorn as the exalted home of Mars.

Your whole sign natal 3rd is Virgo
3rd among other significations would indicate events connected with a sibling/siblings

Aries is whole sign 10th the location of natal Jupiter as well as your exalted Aries Sun

Capricorn as whole sign 7th brings Saturn into the mix

Remember also that the 28 November 2012 eclipse degree 6 Tropical Gemini 47 was transited by Jupiter on 26 February 2013 and transiting Jupiter remains within orb so for the past at least twelve days there has been potential for volatile events... it's possible that your keeping a vigilant eye on Mars impending transit along with an awareness of the kinds of events Mars tends to trigger may well have paid dividends!

Mars transits your natal Mercury approximately every two years, however events differ due to other transiting planets being located elsewhere each time

Your whole sign 12th - the house of 'self undoing' and of 'hidden enemies' - is Gemini so do take care and avoid 'being your own worst enemy!' - particularly since the 28 November 2012 eclipse was in Tropical Gemini

A great opportunity to keep notes and observations in order to observe and analyze multiple layers! Particularly since eclipse connected events may be triggered up to several years after the actual eclipse. Eclipse degrees remain sensitive for the length of time of the eclipse.

The Predictive Power of Eclipse Paths Bill Meridian http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_t4FQbwji1g

and

Eclipse Phenomena by Celeste Teal http://www.moonvalleyastrologer.com/eclipse-phenomenon/

[byjove]

Thanks for taking a look. Yes, I did spot 3rd sign ruled by Mercury, which has just been transited by Mars, and exactly by conjunction just yesterday. I didn't expect Sunday to be eventful for any career significations anyway. I certainly feel less 'trigger-happy' though. Yes, once-in-two-year conjunction so I thought I should keep notes. Recent times have the distinct impression of events/habits/situations being repeated (connecting with events 3 years ago almost exactly).