Grave Financial situation - any idea when will it get better?

explorer

Member
Hi everyone,

I am new to this forum and am hopeful that I will get some insight on my current situation.

I will appreciate if someone would kindly analyze my chart and suggest their thoughts on when would my financial situation get better? I got laid off from work last year in September [of 2008] and have been unable to find any work yet. My unemployment benefit is going to run out shortly which is also freaking me out.

Over the years I have managed to accumulate a large debt. It concerns me with the means to pay it off. I have recently started to sell my stuff including my furniture and other things in order to raise some cash but it is not working out well.

I'll appreciate if someone could shed some light on my situation.

I am attaching charts with Lahiri (sidereal system), Whole signs and Placidus house system.

Thank you. I greatly appreciate your time.
 

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gemini59

Well-known member
Just a cursory look at your chart does show Saturn in your 10th. Saturn is the planet of restriction, limitation, and responsibility. Saturn will transit to Libra and conjoin your natal Pluto at the very top of your chart. This alone is a very significant indicator and tells of a transformation in your 10th house.
Pluto=transformation
Saturn=restriction
I see Pluto creates a trine to jupiter in your 2nd house of finance and this is a key for you. Saturn typically creates responsibility. As it trines your Jupiter in the 2nd this will literally expand jupiters position.
Saturn rules your second house and natally squares Pluto and opposes your moon (emotion).
Pluto transform...rebirth, rehabilitation ..in Libra =harmony relationship partnerhip
Saturn restrict...limits, constraint
Jupiter expand...in Aquarius...larger social context, thoughts, invention
Pluto rules 12th of hospitals, people who are confined, secrets
North node in first in Capricorn.... north in first is focus on self rather than others in capricorn implies in pratical ways. Your moon in Capricorn oddly enough is the ruler of your south node thus your emotions may tend to be more practical, more serious.
Explorer, I do not know your whole story ie career, relationship but I suspect that this is a very important karmic point in your life.
With Pluto in Libra your greatest strength is your ability to form partnerships but this is also the area of your greatest resistance to your own evolution .
Saturn maybe telling you something about striking out on your own.
Blimely, you also have a yod formation of neptune sextile Jupter forming a inconjuntion to again...Saturn which is near your south node too. Saturns tranist will fire this conflict with in you.
I wish I had a perfect answer for you. I hope others contribute.
In short you are going through an evolution that will be reflected in your career.
Money from work is ruled by Venus ruler of the 11th (second from 10th). I would like to see some postive aspects to it. The trine from Saturn to Jupiter upcoming may help, I hope.
 
You have calculated your chart using the default on astro.com of placidus and I use Equal House system and am a modern astrologer. Lots of people that come into Astrology get their free charts calculated at www.astro.com and the default ‘house system’ used is Placidus and think that’s just the norm and all that there is……..BUT that is just the tip of the iceberg. You can change the default on astro.com in Extended Chart selection to Equal house and a few more.

Throughout the forums but mainly in natal astrology there are two main branches Placidus (unequal size houses) v Equal House (whereby each house is same size) but lots more……. For more information on these go here.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/House_(astrology)#Description
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm

It's only with study and research will you be able to assess where your planets are deposited and in which houses... thus see which 'glove fits'

In Equal house like whole sign your sun, mercury are in 10th house

Main issues/problems is T Pluto conj natal moon in 2nd house of 'how you earn your money' personal beliefs and values and this is what is being stripped away bare for you rebuild. Your moon in involved in T Square, opp Saturn and square to Pluto. Natal Pluto is also being 'hit' by T Saturn, so a double whammy going on here.

Emotional upheaval, and irrational, compulsive feelings are key issues during this time period. Feelings that have remained hidden or forgotten since childhood arise now. You also sometimes feel gripped by feelings and emotions that you never thought you were capable of having!
+A time of great change and evolution, in particular regarding your home life and surroundings -- your support system. You may draw a whole new environment around you after boiling down the current situation to the bare essentials.
http://cafeastrology.com/plutotransits.html

Saturn is the Lord of Karma and master teacher, but really he's trying to teach us about ourselves. It wants us to be responsible, hard working, dutiful and learn our Lessons properly, so they won't have to keep being repeated. Therefore, is usually suggests things slowing down, delays, limitations and restrictions so we can learn these Lessons.

What Saturn does is 'test' what is of value to you and what is working in your life. It wants structure and hard work. If something isn't working--- it may well end--- so something better can be put in it's place.


You have just had a 12year Jupiter return transit and now it's in 3rd houe of communications. We look to this planet for expansion, doors opening, luck, benevolence, faith and protection and to have it natally in 2nd is great-- cos there will be an 'inner faith, belief' that you should always be able to 'earn enough' to survive.

Moon opp Saturn suggests a reserved emotional nature quite able to endure hardships (financially) prob cos your mother had to. When T Uranus gets to your IC/home roots next year will prob be a relocation and disruptions within home, family matters.

Your Satur is Apex for Yod formation and for further research try here...
Info on Yod’s
http://www.bobmarksastrologer.com/TheYod15.5.htm
http://asphodelea.com/yods.html
http://www.drstandley.com/astrologycharts_yod.shtml
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yod_(astrology)
http://realastrologers.com/?p=331
http://medicalastrologybyeileennauma...t-and-yod.html
http://thezodiac.com/yod.htm

http://medicalastrologybyeileennauman.blogspot.com/2009/03/inconjunct-aspect-and-yod.html


Your chart lacks the element of fire or planets in fire houses,
Lack of elements http://www.astrologyweekly.com/forum/showthread.php?t=18077

Transits
 
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explorer

Member
Thank you so much Gemini59 and Astrologer50 - It is so kind of you to offer interpretation and mentioning resources to help learn more about Astrology.

Astrologer50 - You are right about the element of fire missing from my chart. It is challenging for me to "get set and go" and "just do it" - and if I do - often it is wrong step, wrong time or both - which makes me all wishy/washy.

I have issue with focus and prioritizing - basically ADD without hyperactivity. It has always been hard for me to make a sense out of situation - akin of a person who can't see clearly without corrective lenses. Unfortunately in my case I have not found a corrective lense that I can wear - have been to a psychiatrist trying different medications for the last 8 years - hasn't worked.

This has been an issue all my life. Whenever I have a bad situation - I just wish and hope it goes away. Whenever the times are good I have been an extravagant spender - not froogle at all - which of course has landed me into this mess - from which I see no way out.

Gemini59 mentioned that there is a transit of "Saturn trine Jupiter" coming - which should make things move in +ve direction.

I am basically trying to figure out "how could I get my mental/focus/prioritizing" act together so that I do not run into similar issue again and hopefully come out of this one wiser/practical and froogle.

It is embarrasing that at age 36 I am dealing with issues trying to avoid going broke - while friends and previous colleagues of my age are looking forward to secure future with family and finances. I wish everyone luck and happiness - am just trying to figure out how to get my act together.
 
Gemini59 mentioned that there is a transit of "Saturn trine Jupiter" coming - which should make things move in +ve direction.

I am basically trying to figure out "how could I get my mental/focus/prioritizing" act together so that I do not run into similar issue again and hopefully come out of this one wiser/practical and froogle.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/saturntransitaspects.html
http://www.khaldea.com/kldaephem/2000/oct2009gmt.shtml

Transits
astro.com has fee six month transit forecast plus when you get into Extended chart selection, look at the three tabs after calculating a chart under ‘method’ default is circular wheels (on left), middle is special charts and in their you get graphic ephemeris 1yr (or 5years) with natal = transits for 1yr and lots more. BUT you first must learn or memorise the 'glyphs' ie: shorthand for recognising what these maps/graphics mean.

For example when you post or reply to a chart the 'smilies' to the right and just under them [more] if you click on there it will bring up a whole loads of 'glyphs' Mercury :mercury:Uranus :uranus:conjunction :conjunct:(+or - 8'):trine: trine aspect 120' :libra:Libra
http://cafeastrology.com/transits.html
http://cafeastrology.com/transits_2.html
http://www.astro.com/faq/fq_fh_transits_e.htm
http://www.astro.com/astrology/in_transits_e.htm
http://www.astro.com/swisseph/ae/2000/ae_2009.pdf
http://www.khaldea.com/kldaephem/2000/oct2009gmt.shtml

Actually, your mercury is quite well aspected,being conj sun, trine venus. Whilst looking at the square to Asc ie; how communication comes out, if you like

Mercury square the Ascendant
Without intending to, you often express yourself in such a way that people misunderstand your meaning or are offended. You may use flattery to win people over, but they can usually detect your insincerity if you choose that route! As your own worst critic, you may continually compare your accomplishments to those of your peers.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/mercuryascendantaspects.html

If you are new to astrology I would advise you to stay away from 'sideral' and stick with tropical zodiac.

Your venus conj uranus (typically the divorce aspect) placed in 11th Equal house --also suggests fragmented finances, venus ruling 6th & 11th.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/venusuranusaspects.html

Your sun, mercury in 10th Equal in virgo-- virgo is a born worrier and tends to overanalyse things and churns things over and over, has perfectionist streaks.
Cos your mercury is conj sun, I feel the sun square neptune is affecting your thought processes a little too much here

Sun square or opposition Neptune
Those people born under a challenging aspect between the Sun and Neptune often struggle with a desire to be something special or to experience something more than the ordinary. They are day-dreamers and idealists. It is easy for these people to trust others, even (and perhaps especially) people who might seem from the outside looking in as unsavory types. They are looking to identify with something beyond what is normally expected of people.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/natal/sunneptuneaspects.html
 
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explorer

Member
Thank you Astrologer50 for your insightful comments and resources for more study.

I understand that Astrology provides us tools such as:

1. Natal Chart - To understand the basic psychological makeup

2. Progressions - To identify the "areas of activity" at a certain age

3. Transits - to identify "areas of activity" for a given point in time.

This knowldge has its own merit and if understood correctly should be quiet helpful in identifying the areas of interest.

The question is:

What are the tools that one can use to correct a natal tendency?

Also if an element is missing from a chart (e.g. Fire in my case - except with the Sag Asc - which has been to my detriment more - than helpful) -

How could one compensate for a missing element?

E.g. - In my case you absolutely hit the mark with
Mercury Square Asc

I will also say that with Sagittarius rising - I have most of the common traits associated with it -

Attention deficit disorder
Absolutely recklace with money.
Speak before comprehending a thought - although Mercury Square Asc aggravates it.
Choosy about work ... and so the list goes.
Got married without giving it enough thought and just based on "emotional high" and later got divorced - of course hurting a lot of people in the process - which is more common with Sag rising than others.

My question is how do I pacify these traits?

I practice Yoga - I meditate - I want to do the right thing - but how come each time I end up in a mess? I went to a psychaitrist for 8 years to get over the ADD - with all different medication it didn't go away - instead it made me more wrecklace, dillusinal and it increased my tendency being pursuaided by friends to borrow more in order to fill the hole - instead it got bigger and bigger and now the same friends are doing fine - while I am in the mud not just knee deep but up to my throat.
 
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Thank you Astrologer50 for your insightful comments and resources for more study.

I understand that Astrology provides us tools such as:

1. Natal Chart - To understand the basic psychological makeup

2. Progressions - To identify the "areas of activity" at a certain age

3. Transits - to identify "areas of activity" for a given point in time.

This knowldge has its own merit and if understood correctly should be quiet helpful in identifying the areas of interest.

nice synthesis

The question is:

What are the tools that one can use to correct a natal tendency?
Within yourself -- as always, the Lesson, Test or Exam is for your to develop, learn and overcome these Lessons which spiritually I believe we have asked for inanyevent

Also if an element is missing from a chart (e.g. Fire in my case - except with the Sag Asc - which has been to my detriment more - than helpful) -

How could one compensate for a missing element? I suspect we all naturally tend to over compensate for what's lacking or missing. In your case the Fire element and rushing into things is something that you recognise and are trying to stop-- therefore having learnt the Lesson....

E.g. - In my case you absolutely hit the mark with
Mercury Square Asc

I will also say that with Sagittarius rising - I have most of the common traits associated with it -

Attention deficit disorder
Absolutely recklace with money.
Speak before comprehending a thought - although Mercury Square Asc aggravates it.
Choosy about work ... and so the list goes.
Got married without giving it enough thought and just based on "emotional high" and later got divorced - of course hurting a lot of people in the process - which is more common with Sag rising than others.

My question is how do I pacify these traits?

I practice Yoga - I meditate - I want to do the right thing - but how come each time I end up in a mess? I went to a psychaitrist for 8 years to get over the ADD - with all different medication it didn't go away - instead it made me more wrecklace, dillusinal and it increased my tendency being pursuaided by friends to borrow more in order to fill the hole - instead it got bigger and bigger and now the same friends are doing fine - while I am in the mud not just knee deep but up to my throat.

Saggi has a lot of positive traits to-- don't just focus on the negatives. It the sign of the teacher, philosophy, travel, journalist, the law, religion

These individuals are somewhat restless and often active people. They always seem to be looking for something that is just out of grasp -- and many do this their entire lives. They can be quite direct at times, yet they are likable enough to forgive for their faux-pas. Most have a lot to say and offer. Their insights and opinions are usually interesting and exciting, although sometimes lacking in details. http://www.cafeastrology.com/zodiacsagittarius.html

Why does anyone end up in a mess --- It's so we LEARN from our mistakes and hopefully don't repeat them. We are ALL here to learn certain Lessons, with certain people at certain times in our lives. Some lessons may seem harsher or harder, some are slower to learn than others. The pace doesn't matter, we all have the ability to change ourselves IF we want and it sounds like you have had and are doing the best with the cards you were dealt

Sounds like you are doing the typical Virgoan over analysing and worrying thing. Your natal saturn being apex of Yod is your karmic Lessons so perhaps further research there

Currently T Saturn squre natal moon will keep you short of money, emotionally bit depressed and feeling unloved to -- so just tread water, don't go out on limb, try not to make major decisions regarding finances.

This transit sometimes occurs when changes at home leave us feeling "alone in this world", such as when we move out on our own, are separated from family or other loved ones, and so forth. Domestic problems may be part of the picture, often connected to women and sometimes the mother. Everyday coping skills can be compromised at this time--chores and routines seem to be harder to do or more burdensome than usual. It can be hard for us to take risks at this time, and we are likely to focus on the negatives in our lives. Fears and insecurities of all kinds are magnified during this period--fear of rejection, fear of what the future might bring, fear that we won't be able to handle our lives masterfully, and so forth.
http://www.cafeastrology.com/saturntransitaspects.html
 
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explorer

Member
Astrologer50 - your analysis and suggestions are very helpful - Thank you.

Briefly put - at the moment Progressions and Transits both agree upon tough time.

I was wondering if you could shed some light on selecting house system. I understand the basic criteria which suggests that use what feels right.

I have checked Equal house system, Whole signs system and the Placidus.

I understand that Placidus is calculated using time the Sun spends in each sign during the day, while for Equal or Whole house system the size of the house remains the same i.e. 30 degrees each. The difference b/w Equal and Whole house system is that Equal house system starts the 1st House with ASC at the cusp. While the Whole house starts the 1st house with Sign at the cusp and ASC lies within that sign.

I am trying to figure out which house system fits well in my case. Here is a little bit of analysis.

Given the current situation - the T square with Pluto seems to be appropriate in the Whole sign system

T-Square
Natal - Pluto in 10th - Saturn in 8th - Moon in 2nd
Transit - Saturn in 10th conj Pluto - Pluto in 2nd conj Moon - Pluto in 2nd opp Saturn in 8th

For the Yod:
Natal - Saturn in 8th - Neptune in 1st - Jupiter in 3rd
Transit - Pluto in 2nd opp natal Saturn in 8th

Could you offer some insight?
 
I was wondering if you could shed some light on selecting house system. I understand the basic criteria which suggests that use what feels right.
How then does an astrologer choose a house system? Well, the individual studying alone is more than likely to use Placidus Houses. The reason for this is simple - he has to consult an ephemeris in any case, and Raphael's Ephemeris is the most widely used, which gives the information needed for Placidus Houses.
Students who study with a recognised school are usually introduced to all of the house systems, but taught to use one far more than the others. This is usually the Equal House system, which incidentally is also one the oldest one. In this house system, the twelve divisions are very much like spokes of a wheel, equally spaced at 30 degree intervals, with all houses being the same size. This is the easiest of the House systems to use, as it requires no further calculation. Once the Ascendant is known, one simply divides the rest of the chart using the Ascending degree as a starting point - so if the Ascendant is at 22 degrees Leo, this is take as the cusp of the first house, with the second house beginning at 22 degrees Virgo, the third at 22 degrees Libra and so forth.
The Equal House system is conceptually valid within today's astrological standpoint that every individual is free to become what their birth chart symbolises as their ultimate talent. The Ascendant has been shown to correspond to the way the person automatically approaches their environment - the 'persona' in Jungian terms. This person is therefore likely to approach every field of life in a specific way. A person with an Aquarius Ascendant, for example, will approach money-making and material values (2nd house) in a Pisces manner, will learn (3rd house) in an Aries manner, deal with family (4th house) in a Taurus manner and so forth.
The biggest criticism of the Equal House system concerns the position of the MC, which, using this system is more often than not the cusp of the tenth house (or any house) but rather is found within the 9th, 10th or 11th house.
The MC, being the highest point at birth, symbolises the aims and ambitions one works towards, and, by extension, one's career potential and public image. But these areas are also 10th house matters, devised, because of that house's association with Saturn, to show precisely these areas of life. It is therefore conceptually necessary (so goes the argument) that the MC be the cusp of the 10th house. For this reason, the Equal House system has a limited following outside the UK, although it is still the commonest House system within the UK.
http://www.astrolozy.com/article19.asp
http://www.aquamoonlight.co.uk/systems.html

Equal House System:
A simple, yet highly effective system, this was the method that the ancients used before the various unequal houses systems developed. Any table of houses may be used because once the ascendant degree is discovered, the divisions of the chart wheel are equally divided with the same degree as the ascendant on each house cusp. The signs on the cusps then follow in order around t he wheel beginning with the rising sign. There are no intercepted signs in equal houses and therefore each sign is represented on a particular house cusp. The Equal house system does not create very large or small houses that become even more pronounced the higher the northern or southern latitudes used to calculate the chart.
-The Equal House System avoids the problem with the Placidus which results in extremely uneven houses if the native should be born in extreme northern or southern latitudes.
-Each sign is fully represented on a house cusp.
-Debbie Kempton Smith the author of Secrets from an StarGazer's Notebook recommends either Equal House or Koch (unequal).
-Margaret Hone puts forth an excellent argument in favor of Equal House in her book, "Applied Astrology" which is why it is the default for SkyViewZone.
Jeff Mayo and the Faculty for Astrological Studies also favors this house system
.
http://www.solsticepoint.com/astrologersmemorial/hone.html

http://www.skyviewzone.com/birthinfoforms2/housesexplained.htm
 
I am trying to figure out which house system fits well in my case. Here is a little bit of analysis.

Given the current situation - the T square with Pluto seems to be appropriate in the Whole sign system WHY? this T Square stays whatever house system you use....

T-Square
Natal - Pluto in 10th - Saturn in 8th - Moon in 2nd
Transit - Saturn in 10th conj Pluto - Pluto in 2nd conj Moon - Pluto in 2nd opp Saturn in 8th

For the Yod:
Natal - Saturn in 8th - Neptune in 1st - Jupiter in 3rd
Transit - Pluto in 2nd opp natal Saturn in 8th
Could you offer some insight?

The house cusps and planets moving from one house to another is the main issue when deciding which house system works best for you. In your case--- sun/mercury move to 10th venus/uranus move to 11th. Your T square stays as it is and doesn't move in any house system. If you go to and read the links I posted earlier it will explain in more detail the differences. :love:

In my post (3) I gave you the links to research your Yod and gave you a quote for T Pluto conj moon :innocent:
 

explorer

Member
Thank you Astrologer50 for your guidance and comments.

I have done some more research on the house systems - following is my analysis.

T square b/w: :pluto::moon::saturn:- with :pluto: at top

Equal House System:

:pluto:in House 10
:moon:in House 1
:saturn:in House 7

Whole sign House System:

:pluto:in House 10
:moon:in House 2
:saturn:in House 8

Transits involved:

:pluto::conjunct::moon:
:pluto::opposition::saturn:
:pluto::square::pluto:
:pluto::trine::mars:
:pluto::square:MC

:saturn::conjunct::pluto:
:saturn::square::moon:
:saturn::square::saturn:
:saturn::conjunct:MC

Analyzing current area of interest :

Career - house 10
Finances - House 2
Debt - House 8 (Other peoples money)

Does it seem that the Whole sign system might be a good fit?

The other points that make me feel more leaning towards Whole signs instead of Equal house system is:

Natal :neptune:in the 1st house - Prone to other peoples' advice - Impractical - dreamy - Equal house puts it in 12

Natal :moon:in the 2nd house - Alternating financial situation - from tight to extravagant - tight - Equal house puts it in 1st

Natal :saturn:in 8th house - trouble with other peoples money - Equal house puts it in 7th - which is true though as I have trouble with relationships.

Natal :jupiter:in 3rd house - I have good relationship with siblings and had fine childhood and yes it is true that we moved to live at different places when I was a child.

The Equal House system puts :jupiter:in 2nd house - which as much as I would love to have, doesn't seem to be panning that way because I have not done well with business ventures - or been good with finances.


Do you think I am on the right track? I think once I get my head around selecting the house system, I might be able to focus more on what to look for.

The other question I have, if you'd kindly address is about Lunar and Solar returns - Is there anything to lookup there to pick hints on what might be the right thing to do?

I am attaching my Solar (for this year) and Lunar (for this month) charts as well for analysis.

By the way - why do Solar and Lunar returns change Houses, ASC and MC even if I use the birth place for location?

It is weird that the only time when I am looking into Astrology so closely is, when I am already in a hole. I wish I could have learnt it before I got into this mess.
 

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